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Old 01-20-2006, 12:06 AM   #1
Riva
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ATTN R&M: Flaming and You

Okay guys. I've noticed a lot of arguing, debating and flaming has been occuring in the past few months. Now, flaming is a bannable offence, but I believe we can't eliminate opinions from this forum. I mean, what else are we going to talk about?

I think the main problem is that people forget that there is a human sitting on the other side of the computer. Hence we are all guilty of forgetting about difference in opinions and others feelings.

Following soon will be the guidelines by which I seperate flaming, trolling and arguing from discussion and debate.

However, let me say something briefly.

I have come under flak recently from a number of users, mainly regarding actions in a thread. It hurts me that a number of users either a) flat out abused myself, or b) disparaged my modding ability all because I posted an opinion.

I'm here to clear up a few doubts. The mods are not your lapdogs. We are ordinary users like yourselves, who must also perform other duties. We do not waive our right to an opinion when we gain the 5 stars. We do not automatically agree to bow down to your opinion just because we have an italicised username. We aren't meant to be Holier Than Thou. We are down in the dirt with you guys, except we have duties. And it isn't all fun being a mod either, it's a lot of hard work at times.

The incident in question involved someone who first questioned my opinion, then flat out refused to listen to my rebuttal, and proceeded to insult me personally, all because I tried to debate them. This incident has sparked me to write this thread. I am not excusing my actions or that of the person, by the way. It's in the past, and been resolved, I hope.

Now, this is by no means concrete, so you can all post your definitions/interpretations, and I will edit these guidelines if there is enough demand.

Okay:

Debating

Debating is the art of the discussion. It is a controlled argument. On these forums, that means sticking to the topic, providing facts to support your statement, and avoiding bashing your opponent. It is serious.

e.g: Spinal Architect, I feel, are more technical than Whitesnake, and hence more enjoyable to me. For example, the song {EXAMPLE} is noticeably more difficult to play than {EXAMPLE}.

Discussion

This is less serious, I feel. It is still your opinion, but you can provide as many or as few facts as you like. No matter how silly your idea may seem, if you discuss it well, others are obliged to respect it. It can be serious or humourous.

e.g. I don't like Arch Enemy. They put me to sleep. I find the continual drone and repeated riffs to be somewhat oppressive.

Arguing

Arguing is excessively hammering your point through, ad nauseum, without really regarding or responding to other's posts. It's not really acceptable, and there's a fine line between flaming and arguing. However, there's also not far between discussion and arguing.

e.g. Tool sold out. Whatever you think is wrong.

Flaming

Flaming is when you personally insult a user, a band, without reason.
e.g. METALLICA LICK YOUR SACK YOU STUPID FAG

Trolling

Trolling is flaming simply in order to get a rise out of people.

See:
http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Troll

Thanks to Eggo.

------------------------------------

I also updated the rules thread, to make it more user friendly, I hope. There's some new stuff there, so the regulars might like to take a look.

Last edited by Riva; 01-20-2006 at 12:16 AM.
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Old 01-20-2006, 12:09 AM   #2
Amit
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Awesome thread, Riva. I think it's that dumb religion thread that's really pushed it over the edge.

I'm surprised by how so many people still can't discern the borders between objectivity and subjectivity.

Just so you know...Trolling isn't repeated flaming
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Old 01-20-2006, 12:10 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eggo
Just so you know...Trolling isn't repeated flaming
Oh shi

What is it then?
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Old 01-20-2006, 12:11 AM   #4
Amit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavyRiva
Oh shi

What is it then?
http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Troll

:-)
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Old 01-20-2006, 12:12 AM   #5
kamiccollo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eggo
Awesome thread, Riva. I think it's that dumb religion thread that's really pushed it over the edge.
I think its doing okay now at least, though it might change during the day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eggo
haha, brilliant,- trolls remorse and chronic troll sydrome

Last edited by kamiccollo; 01-20-2006 at 12:17 AM.
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Old 01-20-2006, 12:13 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eggo
usually results in a fire drill
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Old 01-20-2006, 12:15 AM   #7
Riva
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Haha, great. Okay.

Don't mind me, I'm just a newb.
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Old 01-20-2006, 12:16 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eggo
Awesome thread, Riva. I think it's that dumb religion thread that's really pushed it over the edge.

I'm surprised by how so many people still can't discern the borders between objectivity and subjectivity.

Just so you know...Trolling isn't repeated flaming
stop trying to be smart eggo you cum guzzling prog listener

In all seriousness, this should be an announcement.
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Old 01-20-2006, 12:21 AM   #9
Amit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leukeh
usually results in a fire drill
It's happened to me before...Even if I just post a in an active thread sometimes, the entire forum seemingly vanishes once they know I've logged on :-(
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Old 01-20-2006, 12:26 AM   #10
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It really bugs me when I come across someone who can't respect others' opinions. This is a good idea to get things cleared up Riva, but I don't know how much it will actually help. People generally know when they're crossing the line, and those who do usually don't care.
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Old 01-20-2006, 12:27 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eggo
It's happened to me before...Even if I just post a in an active thread sometimes, the entire forum seemingly vanishes once they know I've logged on :-(
/vanishes

I've noticed DarkLikePoe is a big flamer... no offense to him or nothin, just... he is.
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Old 01-20-2006, 12:27 AM   #12
Amit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leppermessiah
...And those who do usually don't care.
Those are the ones who are useless and should be banned on sight :-)

Good night guys!
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Old 01-20-2006, 12:28 AM   #13
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I would also like to point some soem threads will innately breed trolls.
Such as the Metallica, A7X, Axl Rose() threads, and etc.

Last edited by gmoneyguy; 01-20-2006 at 12:35 AM.
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Old 01-20-2006, 12:34 AM   #14
Leper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eggo
Those are the ones who are useless and should be banned on sight :-)

Good night guys!
Wouldn't it be nice if they could do that?
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Old 01-20-2006, 02:31 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavyRiva
Haha, great. Okay.

Don't mind me, I'm just a newb.
That's true.
However, this is an important point that really needed to be clarified.

But Metallica really do lick your ball sack.
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Old 01-20-2006, 06:11 AM   #16
Jacaranda
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leppermessiah
It really bugs me when I come across someone who can't respect others' opinions. This is a good idea to get things cleared up Riva, but I don't know how much it will actually help. People generally know when they're crossing the line, and those who do usually don't care.
stuf faggiah

Ya, I noticed a lot of threads getting worse and worse, although I'm not perfect I try not to step on other peoples toe's, but sometimes its impossible not to.
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Old 01-20-2006, 06:19 AM   #17
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I don't have time to read all of this, I will when I get back from school today. I can tell your getting your point across, good job.
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Old 01-20-2006, 10:05 AM   #18
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I appreciate this thread, I was recently called an idiot by a user on another thread for just stating my opinion on a very debatable issue. Then about 2 or 3 others joined in... I'm not always right and I know some people on here know a lot more than me, but the flaming gets out of control and some people refuse to believe that their opinions aren't fact, then they resort to name calling and other childish behavior or gang up to intimidate. It'd be nice to see less of that...

Carry on
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Old 01-20-2006, 10:07 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavyRiva
We do not waive our right to an opinion when we gain the 5 stars.
I like this bit.
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Old 01-20-2006, 10:09 AM   #20
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As usual with these threads, the people that post regulaly and should read them, won't.

Personally i think that the issue of people (not mentioning any names of course for fear of bannination because i have a history of 'hounding' people) going completly off topic is more pressing than the issue of flaming.
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Old 01-20-2006, 10:12 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartender
I like this bit.
It's a concept a lot of people can't apparently grasp.
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Old 01-20-2006, 10:12 AM   #22
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As is the concept that i bought up.
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Old 01-20-2006, 10:13 AM   #23
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I like all of the mods in R&M and love it when they can actually make a stand on something.

Bring out the Banhammeren.
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Old 01-20-2006, 10:14 AM   #24
Jom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arucard
Personally i think that the issue of people (not mentioning any names of course for fear of bannination because i have a history of 'hounding' people) going completly off topic is more pressing than the issue of flaming.
This exercise in writing was to get people to voice their opinions on the matter as well.

Without being completely derogatory to your colleagues, "hound" away so we can remedy the situation(s) next time we see it.

I had to clean up that Axl thread - went from 180-ish comments down to 65, all from off-topic posting, so I know how it is when a perfectly legit thread gets derailed.
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Old 01-20-2006, 10:32 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spat Out Plath
Kudos to the Js for making a stand the last couple of days; with a bit of management I'm sure it'll pass.
Why are the Js plural? This was all Jason. Riva showed me the threads he was referring to, and yeah, they were pretty outrageous. But I didn't have a hand in the writing process at all; the only thing I collaborated with him on was the mailing list policy. Do I agree that something needed to be said? I do, actually.

And yeah, I agree, R&M is in a lull of retard-nation right now. But it'll bounce back - it always does.
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Old 01-20-2006, 04:23 PM   #26
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There's only one J, and that is the great Jeremy Ferweda.

So where does that leave the 3 Js of R&M? Who knows?
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Old 01-20-2006, 04:34 PM   #27
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Riva, if you're talking about the religion thread where I was saying that it shouldn't be closed I was just saying that I thought it was healthy to promote debate, not arguing.
 
Old 01-20-2006, 04:42 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Encyclopedia Dramatica's Definition of Troll
In Dungeons & Dragons, trolls take full damage from acid and fire. Because trolls have green rubbery flesh and naturally enhanced regeneration, damage caused by slashing, piercing or bludgeoning is halved.

Some DMs were cool and let PCs be trolls, but others were like "no they're too powerful, they are NPC only" and then I was like "eff that" and fed his dice to his cat.
Anyway, I kind of agree, the flaming has esclated to a point in R&M where I think everyone should cut the crap. I know I was a part of this, and I promise not to flame anyone unless they heavily deserve it. or if I'm joking
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Old 01-20-2006, 04:45 PM   #29
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Anyway, I kind of agree, the flaming has esclated to a point in R&M where I think everyone should cut the crap. I know I was a part of this, and I promise not to flame anyone unless they heavily deserve it. or if I'm joking
that's sooo good.
 
Old 01-20-2006, 05:04 PM   #30
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good thinking. I have noticed a lot of regs have been flaming in threads that are already illegal.
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