What makes something funky?

Billy-Talent · 10-10-2005, 04:14 PM

Hi guys,

I know I don't post here often, but..

I'm doing a project for my music class on what makes funk music funky. What certain series of notes or pauses or stylings make something funky? How is it that two bassists can groove on the same scale and yet one can be infinitely more funkalicious? Any advanced musical theory or just general philosophical funkular rambling would be much appreciated. In short:

WHAT

IS

FUNK?

Caleb3221 · 10-10-2005, 05:35 PM

Funk is all about feel, and groove. There is a certain, indescribable quality that makes funk music funky. If you listen to an average punk or rock drummer play the "standard rock beat", bass on 1, 3 snare on 2,4, it will sound OK. Then you have a great funk drummer play it, it sounds amazing. And it is basicly impossible to expain why. There is a great funk bassist I was talking to recently, named Patrick Thornton, and as he explained it, funk isn't about what you play, but the attitude and feeling you put into playing it. In funk, a solid but extremely simple groove wins over something much flashier but less groovealicious, as well. Very little emphasis is usually placed on showy playing.
Another characteristic of funk that I notice is that it is very lighthearted, the entire purpose of the music is to have fun. That's even what many of the lyrics are about. The sole purpose of the music is to dance to and have a good time. Sure, sometimes it has a message too it, but that is secondary to the groove. Even the egoistical rantings of "Dr. Funkenstein" are lighthearted and rather silly.

The lyrics almost never carry the song, though, as they tend to in rock and other styles. If you take the average rock song and cut out the lyrics, then the song is usually pretty boring. Cut them out of a funk song, the song sounds empty, but it still holds its own. They tend to act almost as another instrument, adding to the song as a whole rather than covering it up.

That's my rant on what I think makes funk funky. I'm done. For a little bit.

Shout it Out · 10-10-2005, 05:43 PM

Funk is slap bass, pretty much. Would animal photographso-style bass be considered funky? I think so.

Caleb3221 · 10-10-2005, 05:45 PM

That is entirely wrong. One of the least right things I have ever heard. Most of the best funk lines were not slapped, and slap actually came into it's popularity relativley late in the history of funk.

SalientArbiter · 10-10-2005, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy-Talent

WHAT

IS

HIP?

Tell me, tell me, if you think you know.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wikipedia

Compared to funk's predecessor, the soul music of 1960s, funk typically uses more complex rhythms, while song structures are usually simpler. Often, the structure of a funk song consists of just one or two riffs. Sometimes the point at which one riff changes to another becomes the highlight of a song. The soul dance music of its day, the basic idea of funk was to create as intense a groove as possible.

One of the most distinctive features of funk music is the role played by bass guitar. Before soul music, bass was rarely prominent in popular music. Players like the legendary Motown bassist James Jamerson brought bass to the forefront, and funk built on that foundation, with melodic basslines often being the centerpiece of songs. Notable funk bassists include Bootsy Collins and Larry Graham of Sly & the Family Stone. Graham is often credited with inventing the percussive "slap bass technique," which was further developed by later bassists and became a distictive element of funk.

Since funk is strongly rhythm-oriented, many funk songs contain no solos. Those that do often feature skillfully improvised horn solos. Some of the best known and most skillful soloists have jazz backgrounds. Trombonist Fred Wesley and saxophonist Maceo Parker are among the most notable musicians in the funk music genre, both having worked with James Brown and George Clinton.

In funk bands, guitarists typically play in a percussive style. "Dead" notes often are used in riffs to strengthen percussive elements. When playing with a horn section, guitarists usually play no solos; but if a band's style is closer to a "funk rock" approach, then a guitarist may play solos with a distorted sound. Jimi Hendrix was the pioneer of funk rock and his improvised other-worldly solos influenced Eddie Hazel of Funkadelic. Eddie Hazel who later worked with George Clinton is one of the most notable guitar soloists in funk. Jimmy Nolen and Phelps Collins are famous funk rhythm guitarists who both worked with James Brown.

Caleb3221 · 10-10-2005, 08:25 PM

Ahaha, that made me laugh.

PDWAB · 10-10-2005, 09:21 PM

This is the way I look at it:

Rock is based on the 8th note. Listen to some standard rock and roll song and sing "1 and 2 and" and it will feel right.

Then there's stuff like jazz and shuffle which based on triplets, you can sing "1 and a 2 and a" and it will feel right.

But most of the funk I like is based on the 16th note. If you want the groove to feel right, I think, you have to be able to go "1 e and a 2 e and a" etc. Having it based off the 16th note lets it have lots and lots of syncopation which really drives the grooves along. But that's just me.

franz sanchez · 10-11-2005, 02:14 AM

Remember that wikipedia is a collection of personal opinions, rather than accepted fact.

Hence all the crap about 'slap-bass' and Hendrix being THE funk-rock pioneer. Both points are very wrong.

Caleb put it spot on - the way something is played is what makes it funky.

~~Nympho~~ · 10-11-2005, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy-Talent

Hi guys,

I know I don't post here often, but..

I'm doing a project for my music class on what makes funk music funky. What certain series of notes or pauses or stylings make something funky? How is it that two bassists can groove on the same scale and yet one can be infinitely more funkalicious? Any advanced musical theory or just general philosophical funkular rambling would be much appreciated. In short:

WHAT

IS

FUNK?

ur a cracker who listens to billy talent u wudnt kno funk if it hit u right in the face...

Caleb3221 · 10-11-2005, 03:35 PM

You can't judge someones entire musical taste based on one artist. You can't judge someone's musical taste at all.

franz sanchez · 10-11-2005, 04:34 PM

one man's poison being another man's pleasure and all that.

I have plenty of recordings of rock tunes being played by funky musicians, making some great funk versions of rock records - for instance:

Heartbreaker - originally by Led Zep' - done in a stripped down style by the Boogaloo Investigators, or I Just Dropped In To See What Condition My Condition Was In by Sharon Jones and the Dap Kings are a couple of good examples of making something that wasn't originally funk funky, without changing the tune or arrangement (much).

***YDload*** · 10-11-2005, 05:37 PM

As a bass player, I'd have to say that funk is the most important style of music that led to the evolution of my instrument as it is today. Funk is the band working together as a unified sound under a groove. Sure there's a melody, but it depends on how you play it in order to make it funky. That's why the bass is often the keystone instrument of funk: it has the ability to play a melody, but it should usually be performed in relation to the rhythm of the song.

Popup-Box · 10-12-2005, 03:52 AM

One of the most interesting threads I've run into.

I'm not experienced enough when it comes to funk, but saying funk is slap bass is a somewhat questionable statement.

I remember I used to think that way myself. I automatically thought that when I heard a slap bass line, it was funk. I'm sure this is not neccessarily true, as it's not the sound of the instrument which directs the style. It's rather the approach or should I say feel, of the musicians. I'm quite sure that a good funk artist will even make a stone slapped against tarmac sound good.

PTheory · 10-12-2005, 08:56 AM

Funk is about the ONE....everything is on the ONE, the emphasis on the big heavy down beat that lets all the musicians lock into the groove. It all starts with the beat and then the bass, whatever you put ontop is just colour.

If you like funk you should check out Kevin Goin's (Glenn's brother) new band PTheory on the website below. We've spent years working on the essence of funk

Http://ptheory.co.uk

franz sanchez · 10-13-2005, 02:35 AM

I'd say you've been working mainly on emulating P-funk. Nothing wrong with that, but it isn't actually THE essence of funk.

dj_ando · 10-13-2005, 10:26 AM

well for a start, the backbone of the music is the rhythm section. if you've got no rhythm section, you've got no funk. for me, funk is about syncopation and a real forward motion to the music (despite the often laid back feel), but at the same time, beat 1 is very important - the centre of it all if you like. i guess that's where it differs from jazz, where jazz is all about 2 and 4. i was speaking to an excellent funk bass player about this very thing actually, though from a drummers perspective, and he said that no matter where the rhythms within the band are going, you've always got to have the 1 coming down strong (at least on the drums). it's what everyone works towards and refers to. also, i'd mention something about the use of plenty of repetition in funk. it's generally about grooves and feels, not so much complex melodies/harmonies.

keep in mind, that's just my opinion, and it's what funk means to me

hope it helps though

edit: doh, beat me to it with the whole 'ONE' thing

Caleb3221 · 10-13-2005, 02:38 PM

The one thing is often misinterpreted, though, in my experience. The one must always be FELT, but not necessarily HEARD. Sometimes you can emphasise the one with complete slience in the middle of a busy beat, or accentuate it by playing a 16th after it. And, sometimes the ONE can even be moved a bit. I was recently introduced to this concept, and don't comprehend it quite enough to explain it, but the way this guy does it makes some **** funky grooves, and as I said, funk is about feel, and if it feels funky, I'm not going to argue that it isn't because there isn't a huge bass hit on beat 1.

EDIT:
Now that I think about it, the 1 is also mainly from the James Brown/George Clinton school of funk. This is probably the best known, most popular, etc, but not the only one. Garibaldi didn't necessarily directly emphasize the one, and there are a few other guys who did unique things breaking away from the "one".

PTheory · 10-13-2005, 05:49 PM

Well I agree that there are many variations of funk but the most succesful funk artists James, George, Sly, Meters etc all played of the one. So whilst funk doesn't necessarily have to come off the one the most succesful FUNK artists detailed above all used that formula. So whilst it is a broadbrush statement to say funk is on the one, it was in answer to an equally vague question.

What makes something funky is if it smells and has attitude adn groove....otherwise its jazz /funk. Just my opinion

PTheory · 10-13-2005, 06:19 PM

===Origin of funk===

[[Category:Slang]]

The word "funk", once defined in dictionaries as body odor or the smell of sexual intercourse, commonly has been regarded as coarse or indecent. African-American musicians originally applied "funk" to music with a slow, mellow groove, then later with a hard-driving, insistent rhythm because of the word's association with sexual intercourse. This early form of the music set the pattern for later musicians. The music was slow, sexy, loose, [[riff]]-oriented and danceable. ''Funky'' typically described these qualities. In jam sessions, musicians would encourage one another to "get down" by telling one another, "Now, put some ''stank'' ('stink'/funk) on it!" At least as early as the 1930s, [[jazz]] songs carried titles such as [[Mezz Mezzrow]]'s ''Funky Butt.''

The word "funk" commonly was regarded as coarse or indecent. As late as the 1950s and early 1960s, when "funk" and "funky" were used increasingly in the context of soul music, the terms still were considered indelicate and inappropriate for use in polite company.

The distinctive characteristics of African-American musical expression are rooted in [[West Africa West African]] musical traditions, and find their earliest expression in spirituals, work chants/songs, praise shouts, gospel and blues. In more contemporary music, gospel, blues and blues extensions often flow together seamlessly. Funky music is an amalgam of [[soul music]] [[soul jazz]] and [[R&B]].
[/b]

franz sanchez · 10-14-2005, 09:00 AM

check out these guys - they REALLY have the funk thing down...look at the 'Rumble and Struggle' video clip

http://www.osakamonaurail.com/discography/

10-10-2005, 04:14 PM	#1
Billy-Talent What? Women are things Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 137	What makes something funky? Hi guys, I know I don't post here often, but.. I'm doing a project for my music class on what makes funk music funky. What certain series of notes or pauses or stylings make something funky? How is it that two bassists can groove on the same scale and yet one can be infinitely more funkalicious? Any advanced musical theory or just general philosophical funkular rambling would be much appreciated. In short: WHAT IS FUNK?

10-13-2005, 02:38 PM	#17
Caleb3221 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,664	The one thing is often misinterpreted, though, in my experience. The one must always be FELT, but not necessarily HEARD. Sometimes you can emphasise the one with complete slience in the middle of a busy beat, or accentuate it by playing a 16th after it. And, sometimes the ONE can even be moved a bit. I was recently introduced to this concept, and don't comprehend it quite enough to explain it, but the way this guy does it makes some **** funky grooves, and as I said, funk is about feel, and if it feels funky, I'm not going to argue that it isn't because there isn't a huge bass hit on beat 1. EDIT: Now that I think about it, the 1 is also mainly from the James Brown/George Clinton school of funk. This is probably the best known, most popular, etc, but not the only one. Garibaldi didn't necessarily directly emphasize the one, and there are a few other guys who did unique things breaking away from the "one". Last edited by Caleb3221; 10-13-2005 at 02:42 PM.

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10-10-2005, 05:35 PM	#2
Caleb3221 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,664	Funk is all about feel, and groove. There is a certain, indescribable quality that makes funk music funky. If you listen to an average punk or rock drummer play the "standard rock beat", bass on 1, 3 snare on 2,4, it will sound OK. Then you have a great funk drummer play it, it sounds amazing. And it is basicly impossible to expain why. There is a great funk bassist I was talking to recently, named Patrick Thornton, and as he explained it, funk isn't about what you play, but the attitude and feeling you put into playing it. In funk, a solid but extremely simple groove wins over something much flashier but less groovealicious, as well. Very little emphasis is usually placed on showy playing. Another characteristic of funk that I notice is that it is very lighthearted, the entire purpose of the music is to have fun. That's even what many of the lyrics are about. The sole purpose of the music is to dance to and have a good time. Sure, sometimes it has a message too it, but that is secondary to the groove. Even the egoistical rantings of "Dr. Funkenstein" are lighthearted and rather silly. The lyrics almost never carry the song, though, as they tend to in rock and other styles. If you take the average rock song and cut out the lyrics, then the song is usually pretty boring. Cut them out of a funk song, the song sounds empty, but it still holds its own. They tend to act almost as another instrument, adding to the song as a whole rather than covering it up. That's my rant on what I think makes funk funky. I'm done. For a little bit.

10-10-2005, 05:43 PM	#3
Shout it Out All in the name of rock! Join Date: May 2005 Location: Kill City Posts: 294	Funk is slap bass, pretty much. Would animal photographso-style bass be considered funky? I think so.

10-10-2005, 05:45 PM	#4
Caleb3221 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,664	That is entirely wrong. One of the least right things I have ever heard. Most of the best funk lines were not slapped, and slap actually came into it's popularity relativley late in the history of funk.

10-10-2005, 08:25 PM	#6
Caleb3221 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,664	Ahaha, that made me laugh.

10-10-2005, 09:21 PM	#7
PDWAB Rock It Out Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: University of Washington Posts: 18,060	This is the way I look at it: Rock is based on the 8th note. Listen to some standard rock and roll song and sing "1 and 2 and" and it will feel right. Then there's stuff like jazz and shuffle which based on triplets, you can sing "1 and a 2 and a" and it will feel right. But most of the funk I like is based on the 16th note. If you want the groove to feel right, I think, you have to be able to go "1 e and a 2 e and a" etc. Having it based off the 16th note lets it have lots and lots of syncopation which really drives the grooves along. But that's just me.

10-11-2005, 02:14 AM	#8
franz sanchez hooked and slung Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: isthmus city Posts: 239	Remember that wikipedia is a collection of personal opinions, rather than accepted fact. Hence all the crap about 'slap-bass' and Hendrix being THE funk-rock pioneer. Both points are very wrong. Caleb put it spot on - the way something is played is what makes it funky.

10-11-2005, 03:35 PM	#10
Caleb3221 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,664	You can't judge someones entire musical taste based on one artist. You can't judge someone's musical taste at all.

10-11-2005, 04:34 PM	#11
franz sanchez hooked and slung Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: isthmus city Posts: 239	one man's poison being another man's pleasure and all that. I have plenty of recordings of rock tunes being played by funky musicians, making some great funk versions of rock records - for instance: Heartbreaker - originally by Led Zep' - done in a stripped down style by the Boogaloo Investigators, or I Just Dropped In To See What Condition My Condition Was In by Sharon Jones and the Dap Kings are a couple of good examples of making something that wasn't originally funk funky, without changing the tune or arrangement (much).

10-11-2005, 05:37 PM	#12
*YDload* 凸[◣_◢]凸 Supermod Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: ~you're in my web now~ Posts: 25,505	As a bass player, I'd have to say that funk is the most important style of music that led to the evolution of my instrument as it is today. Funk is the band working together as a unified sound under a groove. Sure there's a melody, but it depends on how you play it in order to make it funky. That's why the bass is often the keystone instrument of funk: it has the ability to play a melody, but it should usually be performed in relation to the rhythm of the song.

10-12-2005, 03:52 AM	#13
Popup-Box Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 636	One of the most interesting threads I've run into. I'm not experienced enough when it comes to funk, but saying funk is slap bass is a somewhat questionable statement. I remember I used to think that way myself. I automatically thought that when I heard a slap bass line, it was funk. I'm sure this is not neccessarily true, as it's not the sound of the instrument which directs the style. It's rather the approach or should I say feel, of the musicians. I'm quite sure that a good funk artist will even make a stone slapped against tarmac sound good.

10-12-2005, 08:56 AM	#14
PTheory Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 42	Funk is about the ONE....everything is on the ONE, the emphasis on the big heavy down beat that lets all the musicians lock into the groove. It all starts with the beat and then the bass, whatever you put ontop is just colour. If you like funk you should check out Kevin Goin's (Glenn's brother) new band PTheory on the website below. We've spent years working on the essence of funk Http://ptheory.co.uk

10-13-2005, 02:35 AM	#15
franz sanchez hooked and slung Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: isthmus city Posts: 239	I'd say you've been working mainly on emulating P-funk. Nothing wrong with that, but it isn't actually THE essence of funk.

10-13-2005, 10:26 AM	#16
dj_ando spizzichino for president Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: sydney, australia Posts: 349	well for a start, the backbone of the music is the rhythm section. if you've got no rhythm section, you've got no funk. for me, funk is about syncopation and a real forward motion to the music (despite the often laid back feel), but at the same time, beat 1 is very important - the centre of it all if you like. i guess that's where it differs from jazz, where jazz is all about 2 and 4. i was speaking to an excellent funk bass player about this very thing actually, though from a drummers perspective, and he said that no matter where the rhythms within the band are going, you've always got to have the 1 coming down strong (at least on the drums). it's what everyone works towards and refers to. also, i'd mention something about the use of plenty of repetition in funk. it's generally about grooves and feels, not so much complex melodies/harmonies. keep in mind, that's just my opinion, and it's what funk means to me hope it helps though edit: doh, beat me to it with the whole 'ONE' thing

10-13-2005, 05:49 PM	#18
PTheory Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 42	Well I agree that there are many variations of funk but the most succesful funk artists James, George, Sly, Meters etc all played of the one. So whilst funk doesn't necessarily have to come off the one the most succesful FUNK artists detailed above all used that formula. So whilst it is a broadbrush statement to say funk is on the one, it was in answer to an equally vague question. What makes something funky is if it smells and has attitude adn groove....otherwise its jazz /funk. Just my opinion

10-13-2005, 06:19 PM	#19
PTheory Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 42	===Origin of funk=== [[Category:Slang]] The word "funk", once defined in dictionaries as body odor or the smell of sexual intercourse, commonly has been regarded as coarse or indecent. African-American musicians originally applied "funk" to music with a slow, mellow groove, then later with a hard-driving, insistent rhythm because of the word's association with sexual intercourse. This early form of the music set the pattern for later musicians. The music was slow, sexy, loose, [[riff]]-oriented and danceable. ''Funky'' typically described these qualities. In jam sessions, musicians would encourage one another to "get down" by telling one another, "Now, put some ''stank'' ('stink'/funk) on it!" At least as early as the 1930s, [[jazz]] songs carried titles such as [[Mezz Mezzrow]]'s ''Funky Butt.'' The word "funk" commonly was regarded as coarse or indecent. As late as the 1950s and early 1960s, when "funk" and "funky" were used increasingly in the context of soul music, the terms still were considered indelicate and inappropriate for use in polite company. The distinctive characteristics of African-American musical expression are rooted in [[West Africa West African]] musical traditions, and find their earliest expression in spirituals, work chants/songs, praise shouts, gospel and blues. In more contemporary music, gospel, blues and blues extensions often flow together seamlessly. Funky music is an amalgam of [[soul music]] [[soul jazz]] and [[R&B]]. [/b]

10-14-2005, 09:00 AM	#20
franz sanchez hooked and slung Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: isthmus city Posts: 239	check out these guys - they REALLY have the funk thing down...look at the 'Rumble and Struggle' video clip http://www.osakamonaurail.com/discography/