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Old 08-26-2015, 09:46 AM   #57181
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yea it does

by definition

morality is completely subject so you could just argue semantics but you'd be wrong
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Old 08-26-2015, 09:48 AM   #57182
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the antagonist stands in opposition of the protagonist but does not by definition entail being the immoral entity

lmao do you even

then by your definition a story could never revolve around an immoral character

go read a clockwork orange n00b
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Old 08-26-2015, 09:50 AM   #57183
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life is complicated
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Old 08-26-2015, 09:50 AM   #57184
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why would I bother trying to have a conversation with you?

urrite Chuck. very good question
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Old 08-26-2015, 09:54 AM   #57185
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Sometimes, antagonists and protagonists may overlap, depending on what their ultimate objectives are considered to be. Often, the protagonist in a narrative is also the same person as the focal character, though the two terms are distinct. Excitement and intrigue alone is what the audience feels toward a focal character, while a sense of empathy about the character's objectives and emotions is what the audience feels toward the protagonist. Although the protagonist is often referred to as the "good guy", it is entirely possible for a story's protagonist to be the clear villain, or antihero, of the piece.

The principal opponent of the protagonist is a character known as the antagonist, who represents or creates obstacles that the protagonist must overcome. As with protagonists, there may be more than one antagonist in a story. The antagonist may be the story's hero; for example, where the protagonist is a criminal, the antagonist could be a law enforcement agent that tries to capture him.
literature 101 lesson of the day
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Old 08-26-2015, 09:56 AM   #57186
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i don't think i've read a single book where the main character is the bad guy. shit lets think. but yeah complete in theory the above quote is on point.
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Old 08-26-2015, 10:00 AM   #57187
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i mentioned a clockwork orange

american psycho
crime and punishment
child of god
as far as i remember "hannibal" revolves around hannibal himself

just off the top of my head


also often times one my start to skew morality in favor of the protagonist as they become invested and empathetic to the character and their background / line of thought

everyone has motivations
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Old 08-26-2015, 10:03 AM   #57188
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that show dexter
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Old 08-26-2015, 10:04 AM   #57189
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ah of course crime and punishment.

BREAKING BAD.
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Old 08-26-2015, 10:04 AM   #57190
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and i haven't read a clockwork orange though it's on my list
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Old 08-26-2015, 10:10 AM   #57191
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it's pretty brutal yet excellent
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Old 08-26-2015, 10:27 AM   #57192
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antagonist does not necessarily entail "bad guy"
not what kurrpt said
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Old 08-26-2015, 10:28 AM   #57193
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a clockwork orange actually has moral redemption in it though, the reason the guy disowned the novel was because no one gave a shit about the religious/moralistic aspects especially after the movie came out
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Old 08-26-2015, 10:30 AM   #57194
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except then he said "yea it does"

the film is still about morality niall kubrick only left out the last chapter of the novel to leave the ending more open to interpretation
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Old 08-26-2015, 10:31 AM   #57195
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yeah but he still clearly thinks nate is a bad guy independently of his role as an antagonist
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Old 08-26-2015, 10:36 AM   #57196
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the film is still about morality niall kubrick only left out the last chapter of the novel to leave the ending more open to interpretation
i don't agree

i mean it's about morality but doesn't make the argument that the chance of redemption lies with the free individual, spirituality and wisdom like the book pretty much explicitly does
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Old 08-26-2015, 10:36 AM   #57197
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yeah that's fine, he's right the fact he was going to end ava even though she appeared sentient would imply immorality

nathan's defense is that he still sees them as machines and is not / never had the chance to get attached to them like caleb. whether that means he is completely apathetic or not, he might be, he lived alone, never mentioned much of his past other than career, etc.

but he picked caleb as he'd be more susceptible to it. whether nathan is right or wrong is definitely up to interpretation. i was mostly pointing out that the film intentionally portray's nathan as creepy most of the time to highlight ava's manipulation. "don't believe him, etc" in order to plan escape.

debating nathan's morality aside, ava was clearly the antagonist. it just wasn't clear until the story developed.
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Old 08-26-2015, 10:39 AM   #57198
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i don't agree

i mean it's about morality but doesn't make the argument that the chance of redemption lies with the free individual, spirituality and wisdom like the book pretty much explicitly does
regardless alex is absolutely immoral for near the entirety of the story
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Old Yesterday, 03:06 AM   #57199
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Pretty decent, but it was on TV and they edited all the beheadings out of it. I only read about them online.
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Old Yesterday, 06:08 PM   #57200
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Jeremy Piven cracks me up. Good in every movie
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Old Today, 04:35 AM   #57201
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I forgot how much I love this film.
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