Guns 'N Roses

[Cipher Hour]

Welcome to the Jungle

I know what you’re thinking. No, I’m not a psychic; but I can tell that if you’re reading a Featured Artist thread about Guns N’ Roses you’re either a fan or a skeptic. Guns N’ Roses is a band that is always constantly evolving, and for a time in history, they ruled the world (and perhaps they’ll rule again). But before we get ahead of ourselves, we have to start at the beginning.

Yesterdays

Arguably, the band Guns N’ Roses was born in 1985 when two hot L.A rock bands become one. A young Axl Rose and Izzy Stradlin had been trudging through the music scene in a band called Hollywood Rose. At the same time, lead guitarist Tracii Guns and drummer Rob Gardner had been suffering the same trials and tribulations in the band L.A Guns. A spark flew between these men through a few meetings and gigs, and soon after the combination of Hollywood Rose and L.A Guns would give birth to the monster we know today; Guns N’ Roses.

The lineup was as follows:

W. Axl Rose (vocals)
Izzy Stradlin (guitar)
Tracii Guns (guitar)
Duff McKagan (bass)
Rob Gardner (drums)

Duff McKagan, a punk rocker from Seattle, flew out to L.A to make it big. He was discovered by Izzy Stradlin (his neighbour) and brought into the band to fill the role of bass.

For many months this version of Guns N’ Roses hit the town playing shows, writing killer tracks, and rocking the hard rock L.A scene. Things were looking up, and as time progressed Axl knew they had to start playing shows outside of L.A. Booking a few shows/tour for the summer, nobody could have guessed the reactions from Tracii and Rob.

As summer approached and the idea of leaving L.A to play gigs in other places was set on the table, Tracii Guns outwardly refused. What followed was a quick break up of the band; all over the issue of leaving L.A to do other gigs. Tracii took drummer Rob Gardner with him to reform L.A Guns, leaving Axl and the others with their mouth’s flapping in the wind.

With no lead guitarist or drummer, Axl and Izzy returned to Hollywood Rose licking their wounds. However, after playing a few shows, they struck a chord with two musicians in the audience; Steven Adler (drummer) and Saul Hudson aka Slash (guitarist).

Watching the show, Adler remarked to Slash that if they could get hold of Axl and Izzy, they’d have the makings of something magical. Slash agreed, and the musicians met. After a few phone calls (and getting hold of Duff to bring him onboard), Guns N’ Roses was once again living.

June, 1985

W. Axl Rose (vocals)
Slash (lead guitars)
Izzy Stradlin (rhythm guitar)
Duff McKagan (bass)
Steven Adler (drums)

This was the band that everyone knows today. With Seattle bookings still intact since the Tracii days, the band began their brotherhood together. From there, life was a whirlwind of gigs around California, writing, and partying. Life was good, but it was going to get better soon.

In 1986, Guns N’ Roses managed to impress a few Geffen big wigs at one of their L.A gigs. The issue of signing the band was a risky one. Not because of talent, from what they had seen they were quite impressed. Frankly, they weren’t sure they would live long enough to even record an album. Regardless, in March of that same year, Guns N’ Roses were officially signed to Geffen. Months later in August, Alan Niven was hired as their manager and recording began for the bands first album; “Appetite For Destruction”.

Interesting Fact:

Aerosmith Manager Tim Collins was interested in managing the band, but refused after seeing them trash a hotel room and get completely wasted after a meeting.

In December, after many months of hard work, Appetite For Destruction was finished. It was no easy task, as Alan Niven discovered while trying to keep the band alive and tone down the drinking and drugs. Geffen soon after, made plans to release the album in July of the following year.

[Cipher Hour]

July 21st, 1987 was the official US release of Appetite, and a few singles (along with a video for Welcome to the Jungle) were released. At first, the band was moving at a slow burn. But after the release of the video for Sweet Child O’ Mine, things began to sky rocket. Sweet Child O’ Mine would go on to become the band’s first #1 single.

The rest of the year (and the following year) were nothing short of ongoing activity. Guns N’ Roses began doing big tours and in 88, they began writing a few of the songs that would show up on their next few efforts. Pressure within the band was fine, the drinking and drugs were still a major problem, but success was rolling in.

In November of that same year, “Gn’R Lies” was released into the public. Lyrics from the track “One in a Million” cause controversy and managed to label Axl as a racist and a homophobe. Axl denies being either. After long promotions and tours for the rest of the year and the next, Guns N’ Roses went on its first hiatus.

Appetite had hit the billboard charts at #1, Lies had risen to #5, and all the Guns N’ Roses singles were high up on the charts. Their popularity was booming as they went on tour with other famous/established bands/musicians, played at award shows, and even won an award themselves at the 1989 VMA’s (in which the band was completely wasted). The band needed a break. It was during this break though, that the drugs got worse.

However, it wasn’t long before the GnR train was back up and running. In February of 1990, keyboardist Dizzy Reed joined the band as recording and writing began for Guns N’ Rose’s biggest project yet; a double album.

Tension within the band was at a rise; however, the boys of GnR had managed to clean up moderately well after Axl threaten to break up the band because of it last year. But there was one member of the band that was too far gone to be reached. After failing to be able to play the drum parts written for the new material, Steven Adler was fired from the band (July 11th, 1990). Steven was quickly replaced by drummer Matt Sorum to create the new line-up as it was for the next few years.

W. Axl Rose (vocals)
Slash (lead guitars)
Izzy Stradlin (rhythm guitar)
Duff McKagan (bass)
Matt Sorum (drums)
Dizzy Reed (keyboards)

The rest of the year would drift by with a quick finalizing of the songs and a few major A-list shows. The following year would begin the cracks that would ultimately destroy the band in the years to come though.

From the beginning of 91 to September, many singles off of the double albums project were released into the world, concerts/tours were done, and Alan Niven was fired as manager and replaced by Doug Goldstein. Not only this, but Axl began to stop showing up for important gigs, and his ego began to grow.

In September, Use Your Illusion I and II were released into the world with almost instant success. Musically, it showed the huge evolution the band had undertaken. No longer was Guns N’ Roses the pure hard rock band from the Appetite days. To some, Use Your Illusion I and II were beautiful masterpieces of epic songs like November Rain, Coma, Estranged, etc combined with the old in-your-face-rock from their earlier days seen on songs like You Could Be Mine. To others, the double disc set was a disappointing departure from the hard rock roots band they had fallen in love with back in the late 80's.

Axl’s ego and control over the band was starting to become too much for the other members however, and in November of that same year, Izzy Stradlin officially quit the band. He was, however, quickly replaced by guitarist Gilby Clarke; a fellow musician who had been playing all the same clubs that Guns N’ Roses had.

This was not the only new change the band had to get used to quickly as they began touring again. Axl brought on a horn section as well as backup vocals to add to the Guns family, creating the last new lineup of the band before its dramatic break up.

[Cipher Hour]

W. Axl Rose (lead vocals, piano)
Slash (lead guitar, backing vocals)
Duff McKagan (bass, backing vocals)
Gilby Clarke (rhythm guitar, backing vocals)
Dizzy Reed (keyboards, percussion)
Matt Sorum (drums, backing vocals)
Ted Andreadis (keyboards, harmonica, background vocals)
Diane Jones (background vocals)
Roberta Freeman (background vocals)
Tracy Amos (background vocals)

What followed in the years to come between 92-94 was nothing short of chaos. The fractures in the band that had been growing since the departure of Steven Adler (who at this time was desperately trying to kill himself) were only growing. The band played shows across the world, and at times failed to because of Axl deciding to not show up.

Not only this; but the new direction Axl was taking the band through after the UYI albums was tearing away at lead guitarist Slash. Slowly and bit by bit, the band began to grow apart to the point where they almost never saw each other in the studio or talked to each other on tour anymore. Their popularity continued at a steady pace, and on the exterior the band was still a whole.

In 93 the band released an album of covers entitled “The Spaghetti Incident?”. The album received a lukewarm reception compared to the bands last efforts, and afterwards writing began for the next Guns N’ Roses album. In the years afterwards, differing opinions on musical direction, a faltering friendship, and one insatiable ego drove the final wedge between Axl and what remains of the original lineup. 95 went by slower then usual, and 1996 marked the end at last.

As Slash departed in October of that year, Axl didn’t seem phased. He sent a fax to MTV detailing that the band would still release their next album. But, as Slash walked out the door, Duff and the others soon took their cues as well. As each member went their separate ways, Axl desperately bought the rights to the Guns N’ Roses name, in the hope that Guns N’ Roses would live on through him. By the middle of 97, Guns N’ Roses as it was, was officially over.

Chinese Democracy

For the next few years, Axl remained in hiding whilst his former band mates began their own new careers. However, this would not be the last that people would see or hear from the neurotic front man.

In 99, the new track “Oh My God” was released on the soundtrack for the movie “End of Days”. Rumors began to circulate of a return to the music world by Axl, even talk of a new Guns N’ Rose and a new album to come. As Axl remained in hiding while beginning the long writing process, two words were on the minds of eager fans everywhere; Chinese Democracy.

During the years between 99-02, Axl began writing and recruiting session musicians (Zack Wylde, Brian May, Dave Navarro, and many more) that would become the huge undertaking of Axl’s version of the “perfect album”. Armed with a new musical direction, and a little maturity, the likes of an actual band and new material began to take shape.

In 2002 at the VMA’s, the new Guns N’ Roses took the stage for the first time.

W. Axl Rose (Vocals)
Dizzy Reed (Keyboards)
Buckethead (Lead guitar)
Tommy Stinson (Bass)
Robin Fink (Lead guitar)
Richard Fortus (Rhythm guitar)
Brian Mantia “Brain” (Drums)
Chris Pitman (Keyboards, Special Effects)

Among the set list for the show were classics like Welcome to the Jungle and Paradise City, along with the epic new song Madagascar. Though the performance was somewhat zombie-like, it didn’t fail to get fans excited again. Axl had announced his return, a tour, and plans for 3 new albums; the first of which being Chinese Democracy.

Critics and some diehard fans saw the new band as a disgrace to what Guns N’ Roses used to be, and were angered that Axl called the new band Guns N’ Roses. Regardless, this signaled a new era in the Guns N’ Roses legacy as the Chinese Democracy tour began.

However, things would not go so smoothly in the beginning. In typical Guns N’ Roses fashion, a riot broke out in Vancouver (Canada), kicking off the tour with a bit of a sour note. Axl had arrived in the Vancouver airport an hour late, and because of this the managers at GM Stadium cancelled the show without Axl’s (or the rest of the band’s) notice. This wouldn’t stop Axl though.

For the next several months, the tour went as planned. A few new songs the band had been working on were shown off (along with the old songs), and Guns N’ Roses proved to the world that they still had a strong following.

However, during the last leg of the tour in December of 02, the tour was abruptly cancelled. Inside sources have mentioned that the people promoting and supporting the tour had run out of money, and that this is the reason for the cancellation (along with a strange illness that afflicted Axl during December to January).

Though the tour was cancelled, news was spread that the boys were going back to work on writing and recording the new album (which they hoped to release that year in 03). In March, the band announced they would be playing the next Rock In Rio (scheduled March of 04). Axl confirmed that they are working on writing and recording all 3 new albums all at once so they can tour more frequently.

The members of the new Guns N’ Roses also pursued their own solo projects, along with being top secret about the status of the new album. As time went by without announcements or appearances by the band, speculation and rumors began to mount.

In March of 04, the performance at Rock In Rio was cancelled due to Buckethead leaving the band. The official statement about Buckethead’s departure can be found below. This is also the last official statement Axl Rose has made.

A Message from W. Axl Rose

The band has been put in an untenable position by guitarist Buckethead and his untimely departure. During his tenure with the band Buckethead has been inconsistent and erratic in both his behaviour and commitment - despite being under contract - creating uncertainty and confusion and making it virtually impossible to move forward with recording, rehearsals and live plans with confidence. His transient lifestyle has made it impossible for even his closest friends to have nearly any form of communication with him whatsoever. Last time I talked to Bucket, he called to tell me he had bought a bootleg DVD off EBay and how proud he was to be in Guns and how impressed he was with everyone's performance. Then, in February we got word from Brain that Bucket had called him and said he was back in Guns!? Apparently, according to Bucket he had been "Gone" but had turned himself around and was really excited to do Rio-Lisbon and a European tour. Somewhere in the following month things changed once again. According to those who have actually spoken with Buckethead it appears his plans were to secure a recording contract with Sanctuary Records which I encouraged my management to make available to him, quit GN'R and to use his involvement in the upcoming Guns release to immediately promote his individual efforts...Nice guy!

There is not a member of this camp that is not hurt, upset and ultimately disappointed by this event, and more to the point - if not this individual, certainly this individual's choices. Regardless of anyone's opinions of me and what I may or may not deserve, clearly the fans, individuals in this band, management, crew and our support group do not deserve this type of treatment. We as a whole, definitely feel that we afforded Bucket every accommodation perhaps so much so that it may be that we or more precisely, I may have done Guns a disservice and unintentionally allowed Guns to be put in this position.

On behalf of Guns N' Roses and myself I apologize to the fans who planned to see us at Rock In Rio - Lisbon. The festival and its tradition mean a lot to me personally and I sincerely do not enjoy being robbed by one of our own of the opportunity to be the first artist to play it for the third time. I would also like to express my gratitude to those who chose to embrace Buckethead's role in Guns and support our new line up. We greatly appreciate Bucket's contributions and remain open to "discussions" as there are obviously several issues to resolve. In the meantime rather than dwelling on the negative, Guns will be moving forward and surprisingly (without giving away any details) this unfortunate set of circumstances may have given us the opportunity to take our recording that one extra step further. Regardless we hope to announce a release date within the next few months.

Sincerely,

W. Axl Rose

[Cipher Hour]

With Buckethead’s departure, the new album which had been rumoured to be released in November was now delayed. The parts Buckethead contributed to the album were confirmed to be staying, and writing and recording continued. Many times Axl had asked the band members to come back in while they were working on other projects to re-record/re-write the material to appear on CD. Axl refused to settle for anything less then perfection; this was to be his comeback after all.

As the months went by with still no news or word from the band or Geffen, the album progressed in secrecy. Whilst writing and recording continued till November, Axl desperately searched for a guitarist to fill Buckethead’s shoes. Tracii Guns, the original guitarist of Guns N’ Roses sent an email to Axl asking for a spot in the band in December. Tracii himself has confirmed this to be true, but as to whether Axl accepted the offer or not, this remains a mystery. Neither side will give a yes or a no.

During December of 04 and January this year, the long-awaited Chinese Democracy was at least in the stage of mixing and mastering. Band members Tommy Stinson, Robin Fink, and Richard Fortus have confirmed that the writing/recording stage of the CD is done, and that mixing and mastering is currently going on. It has also been confirmed that Axl brought in orchestra conductor Buckmaster to add to the epic new direction CD would go.

Currently, the band line up is as follows:

W. Axl Rose (Lead Vocals, Piano, Programming)
Dizzy Reed (Keyboards, programming)
Tommy Stinson (Bass)
Robin Finck (Lead guitar/Rhythm guitar)
Ron "Bumblefoot" Thal (Lead guitar/Rhythm guitar)
Richard Fortus (Rhythm guitar)
Brian Mantia "Brain" (Drums)
Chris Pitman (Keyboardist, Special Effects)

The following is a track list of songs to appear on CD (bold titles are only rumoured to be on CD):

Blues
Chinese Democracy
Madagascar
TWAT (There Was A Time)
IRS
Prostitute
Leave Me Alone
General
This I Love
Catcher in the Rye
Seven
Better
If The World
Sway
Sorry
Oh My God *Possible B-Side*
Thyme *Buckmaster confirmed that he orchestrated this song, but unconfirmed if it’ll be on CD*
Ides Of March
Closing In On You
Substitute *Possible name change of the track “Prostitute”*
Silkworms *Was played live in 2002*
Rhiad & the Bedouins *Was played live in 2002*

As is, this is the current state of Guns N’ Roses. Axl Rose is still in hiding, rumors constantly circulating of a release date, CD is being mixed and mastered, and the remaining members of the band are still 100% committed to Guns N’ Roses. Sales of Guns N’ Roses’ “Greatest Hits” album in 2004 has also proved that the fan base is still there (as well as paying for multi-million dollar recording costs of CD). In 2006 GNR are currently touring, playing a few of the new leaked tracks (IRS, Better, TWAT) still without a confirmed release date. If you can bear with me for a moment, I’ll take you through my brief “where are they now?” section.

Where Are They Now?

Slash, Duff, and Matt

After leaving Guns N’ Roses in 96-97, Slash went full-time with his hard rockin’ sideproject band “Slash’s Snakepit” (which Slash had formed a few years prior to leaving Guns and had released a debut in 95). Their first album was composed of material that Axl previously wanted to use for the next Guns N’ Roses album. Listening to that album makes me thankful the band did break up when it did; although I am still a fan of Slash's blues-influenced hard rock style. Slash eventually ended Snakepit and reunited with Duff (who had been floundering around with his own solo projects). Slash, Duff, and Matt began what was once known as “The Project”, now known as Velvet Revolver in 2002. They would bring aboard Ex-Wasted Youth guitarist Dave Kushner and Scott Weiland (Stone Temple Pilots) before releasing their debut album in 2004.

Interesting Fact
Izzy wrote several songs for Velvet Revolver, none of them were used because they were too reminiscent of Guns N’ Roses from the Appetite days.

Steven Adler

Steven Adler as you know was the first to leave Guns N’ Roses because of his drug habits. The drugs were very apparently affecting his performance. In the studio he would often just lose it and literally not be able to play anything the others gave him. His drumming ability was in a chokehold and the others had enough. In the summer of 1990 Steven Adler was fired from Guns N’Roses.

"I went totally off, I was thrown out of the band because they said I was doing heroin, but everyone was, Doug Goldstein (band manager) took me to this doctor, the doc gave me this thing called an opiate blocker, and it works by making you violently sick if you take any opiates. You can absolutely not take it if you have any trace of heroin in your system, because you can die. Now I did have, they put this injection in my buttocks and I have never felt pain like that, I can still remember it now, I was so sick, I will never forget that needle in my ***. I was sick for 6 weeks, and during that time, Slash called up and said that they were in the studio recording Civil War, and I had to get down there. I said ****, man, I can't, he said, but we can't waste the money, so I got up and went and I was so weak and sick that I had to play the song 25 times if not more, Slash and Duff got ****ed up, I was not, but I was so sick. I never said nothing bad, I love those guys, Guns n' Roses was always the five of us. This was something that Axl wanted; there was a whole plan to get rid of me."

- Steven Adler

The 1990's were a troublesome time for Steven. He had serious drug-problems and attempts at forming bands and playing again always seemed to fail at an early stage. The drugs led to several times in prison. He definitely lost touch with the GN'R camp when he sued them for turning him onto drugs. The main thing was that Steven wanted to secure enough money to support his family because the plan (in the GnR Camp) was to give Steven $2000 and the boot. Steven won the lawsuit.

Currently Steven is in the band “Adler’s Appetite”. This is the current line up:

Steven Adler – Drums
Jizzy Pearl – Vocals
Keri Kelli – Lead Guitar
Brent Muscat – Rhythm Guitar
Robbie Crane – Bassist

For those that don’t recognize the names in Adler’s new band let me elaborate. You may recognize Jizzy Pearl from his vocal work in Ratt and Love/Hate, Keri Kelli from Slash’s Snakepit and Ratt, Brent Muscat from Faster slightly confuzzled sea lioncat’s and former Vince Neil and Ratt bassist Robbie Crane. This however is not the official line up as several times different vocalists and guitarists have joined and left and come back to the band. The name of the band has also changed back and forth several times to Suki Jones. Pre-production for the first Adler’s Appetite album began last year in September and the release date is slated for this summer (with some singles released in February).

http://www.adlersappetite.com/

Interesting Fact

Apparently Steven really wants to bring the original Guns N’ Roses back together. Steven has stayed in touch with the boys (except Axl) and interestingly enough Slash, Duff, and Izzy played with his band at the Key Club. When asked on his web site about a reunion Steven very specifically said that he thinks they owe it to the fans to get back together at least for 1 show. In fact he has even gone as far to soften the idea on the others…not to get anyone’s hopes up (because it probably won’t happen anytime soon) but it is in the talking stage. Who knows what the future holds?

[Cipher Hour]

Izzy Stradlin

After leaving Guns N’ Roses, it didn't take Stradlin long to form another band. He launched the Stones carbon copy Izzy Stradlin & the Ju Ju Hounds, which broke up soon after issuing a moderately successful self-titled debut album in 1992 (Stradlin briefly re-joined Guns for a smattering of gigs the same year, before departing for good).

In the wake of the Ju Ju Hounds break up, Stradlin became quite reclusive, disappearing from sight for several years. The late ‘90s saw him reappear rapidly however, as he issued a string of solo albums – 1998's 117°, 1999's Ride On, 2001's River, and 2002's On Down the Road, and even managed to play a handful of solo shows in Japan.

Stradlin also signed on to help out in the song writing department for the new G n' R-related offshoot group, the Project/Velvet Revolver but denied the chance to be a touring member of the group. This is the last anyone has heard of Izzy as he is still currently running around with different independent projects. A new solo album by Mr. Stradlin is expected sometime in mid-2005.

As a side note, out of all the post-Guns N' Roses projects, Izzy Stradlin has impressed me the most. People, if you haven't heard his stuff and are a fan of rock and Guns N' Roses, BUY HIS ALBUMS. They're better then Velvet Revolver and Slash's Snakepit combined. I can't comment on whether he's better then Adler's Appetite as they haven't released any original material...but we'll see.

EDIT

Recently Izzy Stradlin finally agreed to release his long-awaited follow up album Like A Dog. Previously Izzy was pulling an "Axl" over us by keeping the album behind bars but thanks to the actions of many die-hard Izzy Stradlin fans, the album will see the light of day.

For more information visit his website at: http://www.izzy.34sp.com/

Interesting Fact

Izzy visited Axl in 01 with the intent of rebuilding burnt bridges, and possibly be friends once again. Axl wouldn’t even let him in the front gate.

Further Reading

http://www.sp1at.com/phpBB2/ (A great source for rumors, news, and information on the band)

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/index2.php (Great unofficial site)

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/index2.php (Best Guns N’ Roses discussion board around)

Discography

http://www.darkelucidation.com/guns_n_roses_discography.php

My Recommended GnR Hit List (for beginners)

Welcome to the Jungle
It’s So Easy
Nightrain
Mr. Brownstone
Paradise City
My Michelle
Sweet Child O’ Mine
Rocket Queen
Patience
One In A Million (not for sensitive people)
Civil War
Don’t Cry (Original Lyrics)
November Rain
Estranged
Coma
You Could Be Mine
Yesterdays
Knockin’ On Heaven’s Door
Used To Love Her
Bad Obsession
Don't Damn Me
Blues
Madagascar

Guns N’ Roses Q & A

Questions or requests of information/new songs will be received at my alt. email account:

[email]Guns_N_Roses_Guru@hotmail.com[/email]

Thanks go out to all the Guns N’ Roses fans and to Medapolis who convinced me to do this.

[BoboTheRagingHobo]

Originally Posted by kombucha mushroom mofo

1st post?

Fairly short FA, easy enough to read, nice nice.

GG for screwing that one up.

[Dr. Jake Destructo]

Whoops. I'll delete that post..

GG?

[clown_phobia]

Well, written and informative. Well done!

[Dr. Jake Destructo]

Originally Posted by BoboTheRagingHobo

GG for screwing that one up.

Fix'd How embarrasing..

[Thor]

Wow, very well done. Props to you, bro.

[Cipher Hour]

Originally Posted by Metal_Head_617

Wow, very well done. Props to you, bro.

Thanks. It's good to know that somebody appreciates a thread like this about Guns N' Roses, most people around here outwardly dislike them.

[Dr. Jake Destructo]

I'm not a huge fan, but you did do a very nice job.

[whatduffhuck7]

november rain is top 10 song ever material

[Cipher Hour]

Yeah it is. It's a really beautiful song. If you're referring to my list, it's not in any specific order. Funny enough though, Slash and the other guys HATED practicing that song and that was the only song Axl wanted to practice for a long time (while they were writing for UYI).

[Riva]

Brilliant, Cipher, brilliant.

Pity I have to spread some rep first

[Cipher Hour]

Originally Posted by HeavyRiva

Brilliant, Cipher, brilliant.

Pity I have to spread some rep first

Aw shucks, coming from you that's an honor. Anyway, I hope you like my next FA (I want to do one on The Scorpions).

[Yaksha]

hell if you wanna hear some good rock n roll beginners just listen to the whole first album - Appetite for Destruction

god ****

[rata]

im not really into guns...probably because of axle........

but you did a very good thread here........

[Yaksha]

yah forgot to post that the thread was really well done.. kudos to you.