Mozart

kong88888 · 10-02-2004, 03:37 PM

Hey All,

I was just wondering if you guys rated Mozart's solo piano stuff. As you know Mozart apparently has the reputation to outsiders (non musical types,

) as being the greatest composer ever etc. so i was curious and bought his complete selection of piano sonatas. (Strangely enough i hadn't encountered any of his pieces for any of my exams, and ive done ABRSM Grade 8!)

So I taught myself two of his sonatas (one in A one in F in case any of you know them) and to be honest i was a bit, well unimpressed really! It all seemed a bit repetitive and unimaginative...and i was left thinking how much i preferred say a Beethoven sonata or for technical stuff, i much prefer Bach.

Just wondering what you all thought is all!

Also me and my friend were having an arguement, he seems to think that Mozart wrote 'twinkle twinkle little star' when he was young, i'm not convinced. If anyone can clarify for sure! Thanks!

PeterB · 10-02-2004, 03:41 PM

yea, im pretty good at the piano. i can play mozart's stuff. but i personally think dat beethoven is the best. his work is the ****. and mozart did write twinkle twinkle little star

Ned · 10-03-2004, 01:21 AM

I know his orchestral music and his string quartets and piano trios better than I know his sonatas. I think the finale of his Jupiter symphony as good as any piece of music I've encountered, however, and the G minor symphony (no. 40) is pretty wonderful too.

I think it's interesting to compare Mozart to Haydn, but I don't think it makes much sense to try to compare to him Beethoven--apples and oranges.

Put yourself in a Mozart mode of mind; he was a great melodicist: play those things like expressive melodies.

PDWAB · 10-03-2004, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ned

I think it's interesting to compare Mozart to Haydn, but I don't think it makes much sense to try to compare to him Beethoven--apples and oranges.

Quoted for truth.

PianoDan · 10-04-2004, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kong88888

Hey All,

I was just wondering if you guys rated Mozart's solo piano stuff. As you know Mozart apparently has the reputation to outsiders (non musical types,

) as being the greatest composer ever etc. so i was curious and bought his complete selection of piano sonatas. (Strangely enough i hadn't encountered any of his pieces for any of my exams, and ive done ABRSM Grade 8!)

To call Mozart the greatest composer ever is definitely fair, if you can include Bach and Beethoven along side him. Mozart wrote an opera at age 10 (and, being a child at its premiere, was not allowed to conduct his own opera), his first symphony at 8, followed by one at 9, 11, two at 12... etc. He once attended a concert for which the score was not released. Mozart solved that problem by writing it out in its entirety from memory when he got home. He died in his early 30s and still had hundreds of works, many of which are among the most famous pieces of music ever composed. He did as much for music - e.g. his developing the concerto, to name but one thing - as, say, Bach and Beethoven.

It is very strange that you hadn't played any Mozart sonatas having gone to grade 8. I never did any for any exams, but I played three or four sonatas of his, not to mention a few minuet and trios and other small works, etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kong88888

So I taught myself two of his sonatas (one in A one in F in case any of you know them) and to be honest i was a bit, well unimpressed really! It all seemed a bit repetitive and unimaginative...and i was left thinking how much i preferred say a Beethoven sonata or for technical stuff, i much prefer Bach.

Just wondering what you all thought is all!

Is the one in A K331, the one with the famous Rondo Alla Turca? I know it. Great sonata, especially that third movement.

I used to very much agree about Mozart being repetitive and unimaginative. I used to love playing Beethoven and hate playing Mozart. Now, though, I've matured as a pianist (not to say that you aren't a mature pianist) and quite love playing Mozart. It's not as technically challenging, it's not as emotional, it's, well, not as fun, but there's nothing more relaxing than sitting down and playing the first movement of the K545. You could say the same with Mozart's symphonies and concertos - compared to Beethoven and then the Romantics, they possibly were repetitive and/or even unimaginative, but it was his style. His is brilliant background or dinner music. Relaxing, quiet, soothing, and oh so beautiful, but not so interesting as to have you hanging on every note. Well, some of his stuff is...

While Beethoven and even Bach are more technically challenging, Mozart is definitely a challenge to interpret well. He has a particular early classical style about him that teachers stress and judges look for. Ned was very right in saying that Mozart is more comparable to Haydn, rather than Beethoven; Haydn and Mozart were very similar, though Haydn lived for much longer and thus composed in the latter Classical Period. Both, though, were very much first-half Classical Period composers, while Beethoven pretty much bridged the Classical and Romantic Periods.

So I can completely relate to your saying you were unimpressed with Mozart, as I used to be exactly the same way. Now I just love him.

My favourites of his works, if it is possible to choose, are Symphony 40, Eine Kleine Nacht Musik, and Piano Concerto in D minor, and also the Piano Concerto No. 21.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kong88888

Also me and my friend were having an arguement, he seems to think that Mozart wrote 'twinkle twinkle little star' when he was young, i'm not convinced. If anyone can clarify for sure! Thanks!

I believe he was 5 when he wrote Twinkle Twinkle Little Star.

kong88888 · 10-04-2004, 03:16 PM

Hey, Thanks PianoDan for your input! You speak a lot of sense my friend.

I did in fact know a bit about Mozart's life and his more famous works. I do like his Symphony No.40 and No.41 (Jupiter), the theme from Eine Kleine Nacht Musik not as much though, probably because it is so over used. It was just i never actually played anything of his. Oh and didnt he get murdered (allegedly) by a rival composer?

And yes, it was K331 (in A) i learnt and also k332 (in F). I found the one in F more difficult and (slightly more) enjoyable (especially the 3rd movement 'allegro assai', probably because it sounds the most impressive). And it was quite a challenge to interpret all the performance directions so if nothing else it has improved my patience!

Oh and about twinkle twinkle little star, looks like i owe my friend a fiver!

PianoDan · 10-06-2004, 03:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kong88888

Oh and didnt he get murdered (allegedly) by a rival composer?

Wow! I never heard that!

Quote:

Originally Posted by kong88888

And yes, it was K331 (in A) i learnt and also k332 (in F). I found the one in F more difficult and (slightly more) enjoyable (especially the 3rd movement 'allegro assai', probably because it sounds the most impressive). And it was quite a challenge to interpret all the performance directions so if nothing else it has improved my patience!

I don't think I've heard the F one. I'll keep my eyes open for it! It is definitely good for the patience, learning something you don't really love; and learning stuff from different eras, etc., only ever improves your playing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kong88888

Oh and about twinkle twinkle little star, looks like i owe my friend a fiver!

kong88888 · 10-06-2004, 07:28 AM

Yeah, i read it somewhere ages ago, apparently his murderer was Antonio Salieri a rival composer. But this is unproven.

I found this from a website:

"Although Mozart's official cause of death was miliary fever, some people claim he was murdered...it was implied that a rival composer, Antonio Salieri, murdered Mozart. Salieri said in old age 'I poisoned Mozart', although nobody knows whether he meant this literally or figuratively, or was even telling the truth..."

PDWAB · 10-06-2004, 10:56 AM

Yeah, the movie Amadeus deals with the theory that he was murdered. It's a great movie.

Ned · 10-06-2004, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Punk_Drummer_With_A_Brain

Yeah, the movie Amadeus deals with the theory that he was murdered. It's a great movie.

There is also an opera about this. Salieri was one of Beethoven's teachers.

(It IS a great movie.)

PowerRiff45 · 10-17-2004, 12:26 PM

Am I the only one on

Random_Anibas · 10-20-2004, 03:36 AM

I wouldn't say Mozart was the greatest composer ever... but I'd say he was -one- of the greatest composers of his time. You can't ever clump all the great classical composers ever all together and pick one as the greatest, all are based in different musical eras and of course with the invention and advances of musical instruments, the composers of later times were at an advantage. I would consider Mozart the greatest composer -of his time- as much as I'd consider Beethovan the greatest of his time. It's impossible to compare.

C'mon, Mozart could hear whole symphonies in his head, write them down and an orchestra could play it straight off. That's what I call mint

PianoDan · 10-26-2004, 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Random_Anibas

I wouldn't say Mozart was the greatest composer ever... but I'd say he was -one- of the greatest composers of his time. You can't ever clump all the great classical composers ever all together and pick one as the greatest, all are based in different musical eras and of course with the invention and advances of musical instruments, the composers of later times were at an advantage. I would consider Mozart the greatest composer -of his time- as much as I'd consider Beethovan the greatest of his time. It's impossible to compare.

C'mon, Mozart could hear whole symphonies in his head, write them down and an orchestra could play it straight off. That's what I call mint

Random_Anibas is back!

Precisely, you can't really say there was a greatest composer ever. This is why I said you should include both Bach and Beethoven alongside Mozart. Each were probably the greatest composer in their own era. In terms of what they did for the advancement of music, there aren't many who could be included alongside these three.

Mozart could hear a symphony once, then go home and write the entire score almost perfectly.

lamar · 10-26-2004, 10:09 PM

You know, I don't want to say the old, "Its a matter of opinion" partly because there are some composers that I consider to be truly better than others. But, on deciding the best composer, it is up to you. Personally I say that Rachmaninoff is the best. But I also change my mind. To a large degree, it's what I'm in the mood for. Sometimes its Liszt, Chopin, or Beethoven. I do have a favorite group though. I listen to Mozart, but he's usually not in my list. I think that his piano songs are very impressive and delightfull. They are composed perfectly, and he stays away from being technical. He is very hard to play well because you need perfect evenness of the fingers, because one mistake will be very easy to here. So anyways, Mozart is a genius. But, personally I don't think he is the best mainly because I prefer Russian, or Hungarian sounding harmonic music.

10-02-2004, 03:37 PM	#1
kong88888 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: York, uk Posts: 139	Mozart Hey All, I was just wondering if you guys rated Mozart's solo piano stuff. As you know Mozart apparently has the reputation to outsiders (non musical types, ) as being the greatest composer ever etc. so i was curious and bought his complete selection of piano sonatas. (Strangely enough i hadn't encountered any of his pieces for any of my exams, and ive done ABRSM Grade 8!) So I taught myself two of his sonatas (one in A one in F in case any of you know them) and to be honest i was a bit, well unimpressed really! It all seemed a bit repetitive and unimaginative...and i was left thinking how much i preferred say a Beethoven sonata or for technical stuff, i much prefer Bach. Just wondering what you all thought is all! Also me and my friend were having an arguement, he seems to think that Mozart wrote 'twinkle twinkle little star' when he was young, i'm not convinced. If anyone can clarify for sure! Thanks!

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10-02-2004, 03:41 PM	#2
PeterB keyboardist Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 32	yea, im pretty good at the piano. i can play mozart's stuff. but i personally think dat beethoven is the best. his work is the ****. and mozart did write twinkle twinkle little star

10-03-2004, 01:21 AM	#3
Ned Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 1,572	I know his orchestral music and his string quartets and piano trios better than I know his sonatas. I think the finale of his Jupiter symphony as good as any piece of music I've encountered, however, and the G minor symphony (no. 40) is pretty wonderful too. I think it's interesting to compare Mozart to Haydn, but I don't think it makes much sense to try to compare to him Beethoven--apples and oranges. Put yourself in a Mozart mode of mind; he was a great melodicist: play those things like expressive melodies.

10-04-2004, 03:16 PM	#6
kong88888 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: York, uk Posts: 139	Hey, Thanks PianoDan for your input! You speak a lot of sense my friend. I did in fact know a bit about Mozart's life and his more famous works. I do like his Symphony No.40 and No.41 (Jupiter), the theme from Eine Kleine Nacht Musik not as much though, probably because it is so over used. It was just i never actually played anything of his. Oh and didnt he get murdered (allegedly) by a rival composer? And yes, it was K331 (in A) i learnt and also k332 (in F). I found the one in F more difficult and (slightly more) enjoyable (especially the 3rd movement 'allegro assai', probably because it sounds the most impressive). And it was quite a challenge to interpret all the performance directions so if nothing else it has improved my patience! Oh and about twinkle twinkle little star, looks like i owe my friend a fiver!

10-06-2004, 07:28 AM	#8
kong88888 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: York, uk Posts: 139	Yeah, i read it somewhere ages ago, apparently his murderer was Antonio Salieri a rival composer. But this is unproven. I found this from a website: "Although Mozart's official cause of death was miliary fever, some people claim he was murdered...it was implied that a rival composer, Antonio Salieri, murdered Mozart. Salieri said in old age 'I poisoned Mozart', although nobody knows whether he meant this literally or figuratively, or was even telling the truth..."

10-06-2004, 10:56 AM	#9
PDWAB Rock It Out Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: University of Washington Posts: 18,060	Yeah, the movie Amadeus deals with the theory that he was murdered. It's a great movie.

10-17-2004, 12:26 PM	#11
PowerRiff45 Giving wisdom to the dumb Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 656	Am I the only one on

10-20-2004, 03:36 AM	#12
Random_Anibas It was in my Maoam Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Chester, England, United Kingdom Posts: 258	I wouldn't say Mozart was the greatest composer ever... but I'd say he was -one- of the greatest composers of his time. You can't ever clump all the great classical composers ever all together and pick one as the greatest, all are based in different musical eras and of course with the invention and advances of musical instruments, the composers of later times were at an advantage. I would consider Mozart the greatest composer -of his time- as much as I'd consider Beethovan the greatest of his time. It's impossible to compare. C'mon, Mozart could hear whole symphonies in his head, write them down and an orchestra could play it straight off. That's what I call mint

10-26-2004, 10:09 PM	#14
lamar Registered User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2	You know, I don't want to say the old, "Its a matter of opinion" partly because there are some composers that I consider to be truly better than others. But, on deciding the best composer, it is up to you. Personally I say that Rachmaninoff is the best. But I also change my mind. To a large degree, it's what I'm in the mood for. Sometimes its Liszt, Chopin, or Beethoven. I do have a favorite group though. I listen to Mozart, but he's usually not in my list. I think that his piano songs are very impressive and delightfull. They are composed perfectly, and he stays away from being technical. He is very hard to play well because you need perfect evenness of the fingers, because one mistake will be very easy to here. So anyways, Mozart is a genius. But, personally I don't think he is the best mainly because I prefer Russian, or Hungarian sounding harmonic music.