Merkabas Voice-Help Hotline - Page 36

Merkaba · 03-06-2006, 07:34 AM

Peg...Let me make sure youre straight on this.

C4 middle C, or standard tuning on the guitar, fifth fret 3rd(G) string, where the dot should be. Now if youre hitting two octaves above this(fret 20, high e string) in head then youre truly gifted and I really want to hear a sample! Unless youre a female soprano then I say its highly impossible or youre confused. Are you sure about this?

Surgicalgod · 03-06-2006, 11:28 AM

Maybe he's hittin it in whistle or falsetto?

Screamin_Demon_Auz · 03-06-2006, 03:00 PM

I think its always better to measure range on a piano/keyboard than a guitar because it does get confusing. Find a virtual one on the net or even the piano on Guitar Pro if you have that program.

It's impossible to mix chest and falsetto. You can mix chest and head which is called middle/ or mixed voice. You can add extra breath and volume to get more tone and somewhat mix it resonance wise with head voice and its called reinforced falsetto which is really what a lot of screams are. Many people argue for hours that metal singers scream in full voice, but in most cases its falsetto or reinforced falsetto. Its not worth arguing over though; whats always more important is that your getting the sound you want and getting it as safely as can be done.

Surgicalgod · 03-06-2006, 03:16 PM

Quote:

It's impossible to mix chest and falsetto.

Yeah thought so. I'm actually embarassed I even brought it up lol.
Basically what I do to get a more resonating falsetto is give it more volume and it just sounds better on its own, so is that reinforced falsetto?

Today, I was doin some "nay nay nay" exercises and on the Ab4 --> notes I had a 'ringy' feeling in my head that I've never had before, is that what head voice feels like?

Tell me if I'm askin too much lol...

Screamin_Demon_Auz · 03-06-2006, 03:40 PM

Yeah thats more than likely reinforced falsetto. It's what I do as well for a lot of stuff.

The ringing was the resonation of either mix or head voice. They both will ring it the same places (the different areas of your face), so you just go by the sound. If its a lighter and higher tone thats head voice, but if theres some deeper, chestier overtones to it then that would be mix. Whatever it is, the feeling of the ringing is a good sign and keep it up. The very first exercise (humming) in Singing Success are extremely good for resonation and feeling what different notes feel like when you place them correctly. Do that one often; it's actually good to do it first thing when you wake up to help clear out and prepare your voice for the day.

Peg Dizzler · 03-06-2006, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surgicalgod

Today I did this ascending sirenish thing starting from E2-C6 and I didn't get any breaks or noticable shift in volume like what happens when you switch into falsetto. Falsetto is a whole different coordination right? So it's not supposed to sound all smooth and connected with that.

So you see why I'm confused? On one hand my falsetto resonates well enough to sound like head voice, and on the other I'm not breaking while doing sirens now.

That's definitely a good thing, it takes a bit of work to "connect" all the voices. I'm not sure how I did it or how long it took, but I think I owe it alot to the glissando exercises (and Merkaba!).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surgicalgod

I can make my falsetto sound like head voice (the singers on the CDs) but I'm worried about is the mix..

When you say make your falsetto sound like head voice, you mean you're adding volume to make it sound more "full", right?
Like if you sing in falsetto really softly, it kind of sounds like a whisper, but if you push it a bit more.. it sounds kinda fuller, hehe, is that what you're doing? If not, tell me your secret.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merkaba

Peg...Let me make sure youre straight on this.

C4 middle C, or standard tuning on the guitar, fifth fret 3rd(G) string, where the dot should be. Now if youre hitting two octaves above this(fret 20, high e string) in head then youre truly gifted and I really want to hear a sample! Unless youre a female soprano then I say its highly impossible or youre confused. Are you sure about this?

Oh I would post a recording but I have no mic, and I just caught a cold today.

*lame excuse that's a lie anyway*

Haha. No, you're totally right, Merk. I am confused. For some reason I thought middle C was an octave lower on the guitar. I don't have a piano/keyboard around when I practice vocals (I really should though), so forgive me for the mix-up folks.
But as of this week, without warming up, I can "stretch" my head voice to a C, fret 8 on the high E string. So yeah, ONE octave above middle C (I think!). While my falsetto goes up to something like an A, fret 17... kinda tense though, I shouldn't do that..

StormX · 03-07-2006, 09:48 AM

I was hoping someone here could help me out, I've posted a few times but I never really got anything solid. In my band, I sing a cover song that we do, and I'd like to start singing backup vocals on other songs, but as of now I can't really sing at all. I can control my voice barely, but I have no idea how to hit notes and such, and I always sound like I'm talking heatedly rather than singing. I want to learn how to get my voice under control and actually sound musical.

Surgicalgod · 03-07-2006, 01:13 PM

Page 1 on this thread.

Merkaba posted a whole bunch of good exercises. Always start with the vowels if you're going to start singing, do the EE's and Ah's etc... Those will help you get the 'musical feel', I doubt that you feel like you're talking them.

Also, take your time and practice, practice, practice. Record your singing to hear what it really sounds like outside of your head. Don't delete your recordings, leave them for future motivation. Do the exercises everyday, and I think you'll start noticing some changes in a few weeks.

Good luck, and if you need any more help please be more specific so we know what exactly you're looking for. Maybe if you record a sample?

StormX · 03-07-2006, 03:53 PM

The problem with that is he's talking about doing vowels at various notes and octaves and whatnot, but I have no idea how to hit notes and what my range is or anything.

conkers · 03-08-2006, 02:11 AM

Well I've been reading through these threads for a few hours now, and have been picking up quite a bit of information. I do have one small question regarding falsetto and screaming though.

I'm a huge Blind Guardian fan, for those who know of them, and the lead singer, Hansi, can go pretty high, and does excellent metal screams- but his notes don't sound like a regular falsetto (cartoony)... they sound pure and smooth. So I read into the whole Speech Level Singing stuff, and about headvoice and how you should be using it instead of falsetto.

Well, if I sing high, I have to go in falsetto, else I'm just struggling in the chest. If i go very quiet, I can blend the chest into the falsetto- but apparently when you achieve that, that's your head voice.... Yet is sound the exact same as my falsetto, if not worse because I can only do it very very quietly.

Can anyone post some sound clips of singing in head voice? And then singing in falsetto? And then each in a scream / rasp?

Thanks a lot guys

Merkaba · 03-08-2006, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StormX

The problem with that is he's talking about doing vowels at various notes and octaves and whatnot, but I have no idea how to hit notes and what my range is or anything.

it doesnt matter. Do what you can. Start off in your normal speaking range and try to sing notes in that range. That and the lip trills/motorboats to get your diaphragm working in coordination with your breath support and larynx. Basically you want to make your lips flutter like youre a kid making a motor sound. Now you do this on all vowels(ay,ee,ah,oh,uu,I) yes your mouth will be closed but still position your cords for the vowel and make it, keep your teeth together at first if you need to then work on doing them with your teeth far apart, mouth still closed..but you want to keep the lips fluttering with no breaks. They will increase and decrease with pitch, but you want them to be consistent. This is a very important exercise for a beginner. Mix it up and have fun with it but remember the feeling, so you can translate into regular notes.

StormX · 03-08-2006, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merkaba

it doesnt matter. Do what you can. Start off in your normal speaking range and try to sing notes in that range. That and the lip trills/motorboats to get your diaphragm working in coordination with your breath support and larynx. Basically you want to make your lips flutter like youre a kid making a motor sound. Now you do this on all vowels(ay,ee,ah,oh,uu,I) yes your mouth will be closed but still position your cords for the vowel and make it, keep your teeth together at first if you need to then work on doing them with your teeth far apart, mouth still closed..but you want to keep the lips fluttering with no breaks. They will increase and decrease with pitch, but you want them to be consistent. This is a very important exercise for a beginner. Mix it up and have fun with it but remember the feeling, so you can translate into regular notes.

Alright, thanks, I'll start working on that.

Rock_Out_Dudes · 03-08-2006, 05:19 PM

Hey Merk or anyone else that can help...I have a question about the song Punish my Heaven by Dark Tranquility. When he sings does he use the falsetto rasp that you've talked about in your screaming threads or is that a death metal growl? It doesn't sound like normal death metal growls that I've heard (Opeth sounding) but it doesn't seem to be high pitched enough to be in falsetto. I've never been able to do the falsetto rasp you've talked about for some reason so I don't know exactly what it sounds like, but it just doesn't seem right. Maybe it's just that his voice is just naturally higher pitched, but i'm not sure...elightenment would be great.

Surgicalgod · 03-09-2006, 02:10 AM

I can't help you with that, but I know you'll get a really better chance of getting an answer if you post a sample. You can post the part of the song where he does the falsetto screams, or if you don't know how to cut the song, upload the whole thing and tell us when the screams start.

Rock_Out_Dudes · 03-09-2006, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surgicalgod

I can't help you with that, but I know you'll get a really better chance of getting an answer if you post a sample. You can post the part of the song where he does the falsetto screams, or if you don't know how to cut the song, upload the whole thing and tell us when the screams start.

Alright, I'll upoad the song soon...is it against the rules to post the link here, or should i send it out to emails or what?

Merkaba · 03-09-2006, 03:26 PM

Post a small sample here, not the whole song. I'm on dialup.

Most people use Yousendit or soundclick or something like that.

Rock_Out_Dudes · 03-09-2006, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merkaba

Post a small sample here, not the whole song. I'm on dialup.

Most people use Yousendit or soundclick or something like that.

I'm not exactly sure how to cut a sample out of a song...I'll search the net for it though, and hopefully figure it out...if not i'll have to upload the whole thing

I'll edit this post with a link later tonight hopefully.

Edit: Ok...here's the link :

http://s65.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2OHRMT587EF3A3EQWBQKRZ5QFA

Really in general I'm just wondering what kind of screaming he uses thorughout, but especially at the chorus thing around 49sec-1min, and then at like 3:00-3:16...Thanks. I'm a noob as far as this screaming stuff goes

Merkaba · 03-10-2006, 05:09 AM

whatever's clever

codeword · 03-10-2006, 02:50 PM

Hey, ive read a lot of your posts and it seems really helpfull but i cant seem to get myself to sing from the gut and i think thats probably the start of my problems. I dont think im the worst singer ever but i dont think im at all decent. Id love to be able to sing like either gerard way, lead singer of lost prophets or billy joe. something like that. anything you tell me will be much appreciated!

heres an accapella i did of helena (its really bad but i can usually do slightly better, not much though so thats pretty much it) http://s60.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=011P3LCVVUGJ101WT4NEH2L3R1

or you can listen to 2 of my songs online that i sang on but the recording is bad so you cant hear properly and my friend also sings on them so its kind of a mess but thats at www.soundclick.com/codeword its only the top 2 songs (the 1s that arent covers)

THANKS

Merkaba · 03-11-2006, 05:54 AM

Dont have much time right now but the whole lip trills/motorboats exercise is key for getting in touch with the diaphragm. It should be on this or the last few pages.

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03-06-2006, 07:34 AM	#701
Merkaba Play-Dough and Rug Hair! Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: With Digger the Dermatophyte Posts: 3,967	Peg...Let me make sure youre straight on this. C4 middle C, or standard tuning on the guitar, fifth fret 3rd(G) string, where the dot should be. Now if youre hitting two octaves above this(fret 20, high e string) in head then youre truly gifted and I really want to hear a sample! Unless youre a female soprano then I say its highly impossible or youre confused. Are you sure about this?

03-06-2006, 11:28 AM	#702
Surgicalgod Vocalist Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Mo5ayyam 3in El 7elwi Posts: 3,456	Maybe he's hittin it in whistle or falsetto?

03-06-2006, 03:00 PM	#703
Screamin_Demon_Auz Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 458	I think its always better to measure range on a piano/keyboard than a guitar because it does get confusing. Find a virtual one on the net or even the piano on Guitar Pro if you have that program. It's impossible to mix chest and falsetto. You can mix chest and head which is called middle/ or mixed voice. You can add extra breath and volume to get more tone and somewhat mix it resonance wise with head voice and its called reinforced falsetto which is really what a lot of screams are. Many people argue for hours that metal singers scream in full voice, but in most cases its falsetto or reinforced falsetto. Its not worth arguing over though; whats always more important is that your getting the sound you want and getting it as safely as can be done.

03-06-2006, 03:40 PM	#705
Screamin_Demon_Auz Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 458	Yeah thats more than likely reinforced falsetto. It's what I do as well for a lot of stuff. The ringing was the resonation of either mix or head voice. They both will ring it the same places (the different areas of your face), so you just go by the sound. If its a lighter and higher tone thats head voice, but if theres some deeper, chestier overtones to it then that would be mix. Whatever it is, the feeling of the ringing is a good sign and keep it up. The very first exercise (humming) in Singing Success are extremely good for resonation and feeling what different notes feel like when you place them correctly. Do that one often; it's actually good to do it first thing when you wake up to help clear out and prepare your voice for the day.

03-07-2006, 09:48 AM	#707
StormX I love quilt maple Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Delaware Posts: 2,499	I was hoping someone here could help me out, I've posted a few times but I never really got anything solid. In my band, I sing a cover song that we do, and I'd like to start singing backup vocals on other songs, but as of now I can't really sing at all. I can control my voice barely, but I have no idea how to hit notes and such, and I always sound like I'm talking heatedly rather than singing. I want to learn how to get my voice under control and actually sound musical.

03-07-2006, 01:13 PM	#708
Surgicalgod Vocalist Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Mo5ayyam 3in El 7elwi Posts: 3,456	Page 1 on this thread. Merkaba posted a whole bunch of good exercises. Always start with the vowels if you're going to start singing, do the EE's and Ah's etc... Those will help you get the 'musical feel', I doubt that you feel like you're talking them. Also, take your time and practice, practice, practice. Record your singing to hear what it really sounds like outside of your head. Don't delete your recordings, leave them for future motivation. Do the exercises everyday, and I think you'll start noticing some changes in a few weeks. Good luck, and if you need any more help please be more specific so we know what exactly you're looking for. Maybe if you record a sample?

03-07-2006, 03:53 PM	#709
StormX I love quilt maple Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Delaware Posts: 2,499	The problem with that is he's talking about doing vowels at various notes and octaves and whatnot, but I have no idea how to hit notes and what my range is or anything.

03-08-2006, 02:11 AM	#710
conkers Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1	Well I've been reading through these threads for a few hours now, and have been picking up quite a bit of information. I do have one small question regarding falsetto and screaming though. I'm a huge Blind Guardian fan, for those who know of them, and the lead singer, Hansi, can go pretty high, and does excellent metal screams- but his notes don't sound like a regular falsetto (cartoony)... they sound pure and smooth. So I read into the whole Speech Level Singing stuff, and about headvoice and how you should be using it instead of falsetto. Well, if I sing high, I have to go in falsetto, else I'm just struggling in the chest. If i go very quiet, I can blend the chest into the falsetto- but apparently when you achieve that, that's your head voice.... Yet is sound the exact same as my falsetto, if not worse because I can only do it very very quietly. Can anyone post some sound clips of singing in head voice? And then singing in falsetto? And then each in a scream / rasp? Thanks a lot guys

03-08-2006, 05:19 PM	#713
Rock_Out_Dudes Blood will follow Blood Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 454	Hey Merk or anyone else that can help...I have a question about the song Punish my Heaven by Dark Tranquility. When he sings does he use the falsetto rasp that you've talked about in your screaming threads or is that a death metal growl? It doesn't sound like normal death metal growls that I've heard (Opeth sounding) but it doesn't seem to be high pitched enough to be in falsetto. I've never been able to do the falsetto rasp you've talked about for some reason so I don't know exactly what it sounds like, but it just doesn't seem right. Maybe it's just that his voice is just naturally higher pitched, but i'm not sure...elightenment would be great.

03-09-2006, 02:10 AM	#714
Surgicalgod Vocalist Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Mo5ayyam 3in El 7elwi Posts: 3,456	I can't help you with that, but I know you'll get a really better chance of getting an answer if you post a sample. You can post the part of the song where he does the falsetto screams, or if you don't know how to cut the song, upload the whole thing and tell us when the screams start.

03-09-2006, 03:26 PM	#716
Merkaba Play-Dough and Rug Hair! Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: With Digger the Dermatophyte Posts: 3,967	Post a small sample here, not the whole song. I'm on dialup. Most people use Yousendit or soundclick or something like that.

03-10-2006, 05:09 AM	#718
Merkaba Play-Dough and Rug Hair! Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: With Digger the Dermatophyte Posts: 3,967	whatever's clever

03-10-2006, 02:50 PM	#719
codeword Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1	Hey, ive read a lot of your posts and it seems really helpfull but i cant seem to get myself to sing from the gut and i think thats probably the start of my problems. I dont think im the worst singer ever but i dont think im at all decent. Id love to be able to sing like either gerard way, lead singer of lost prophets or billy joe. something like that. anything you tell me will be much appreciated! heres an accapella i did of helena (its really bad but i can usually do slightly better, not much though so thats pretty much it) http://s60.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=011P3LCVVUGJ101WT4NEH2L3R1 or you can listen to 2 of my songs online that i sang on but the recording is bad so you cant hear properly and my friend also sings on them so its kind of a mess but thats at www.soundclick.com/codeword its only the top 2 songs (the 1s that arent covers) THANKS

03-11-2006, 05:54 AM	#720
Merkaba Play-Dough and Rug Hair! Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: With Digger the Dermatophyte Posts: 3,967	Dont have much time right now but the whole lip trills/motorboats exercise is key for getting in touch with the diaphragm. It should be on this or the last few pages.