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Old 11-29-2003, 02:09 PM   #31
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Quote:
1: Maj7
2: Min7
3: Min7
4: Maj7
5: 7 (Dominant)
6: Min7
7: Min7 b5
Erm, I don't get what you're listing here.
 
Old 11-29-2003, 11:24 PM   #32
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Harmonizing the major scale with 7 chords.
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Old 11-29-2003, 11:47 PM   #33
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You're back you jazz mofo
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Old 11-30-2003, 01:27 AM   #34
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Ohhh! Walker's back!!
Ohhh!
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Old 11-30-2003, 01:28 AM   #35
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That "" came straight from the ferret, to you, baby.
Heh.
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Old 11-30-2003, 01:39 AM   #36
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Modal Chord Extensions:

I learnt this technique/idea during my recent school assignment to compose a jazz piece. It's a way of incorporating modal theory into chord extensions to make life easier for the jazz-inexperienced soloist (that's me unfortunately )



Take the modes of the Natural Minor scale:

A Aeolian - A B C D E F G A
B Locrian - B C D E F G A B
C Ionian - C D E F G A B C
D Dorian - D E F G A B C D
E Phrygian - E F G A B C D E
F Lydian - F G A B C D E F
G Mixolydian - G A B C D E F G

Chords are built using thirds. They are theoretically arranged in the following pattern:

1 3 5 7 9 11 13

Now, re-ordering the modes to fit this pattern:

A Aeolian - A C E G B D F
B Locrian - B D F A C E G
C Ionian - C E G B D F A
D Dorian - D F A C E G B
E Phrygian - E G B D F A C
F Lydian - F A C E G B D
G Mixolydian - G B D F A C E

Those notes spell the following chords, and their extensions:

Am7 ---> 9 ---> 11 ---> b13
Bm7b5 ---> b9 ---> 11 ---> b13
Cmaj7 ---> 9 ---> 11 ---> 13
Dm7 ---> 9 ---> 11 ---> 13
Em7 ---> b9 ---> 11 ---> 13
Fmaj7 ---> 9 ---> #11 ---> 13
G7 ---> 9 ---> 11 ---> 13

When building chords out of the notes/intervals displayed above, select the notes that make the chord most distinct as belonging to a mode. For example, with Dm7, include the natural 13, as it identifies it with the Dorian tonality.



Also, try using the modes of the Harmonic Minor scale:

A Harmonic Minor - A B C D E F G# A
B Locrian Natural Sixth - B C D E F G# A B
C Harmonic Major - C D E F G# A B C
D Romanian - D E F G# A B C D
E Ahava Raba - E F G# A B C D E
F Lydian Sharp Second - F G# A B C D E F
G# Ultra-Locrian - G# A B C D E F G#

Re-ordered into chordal order:

A Harmonic Minor - A C E G# B D F
B Locrian Natural Sixth - B D F A C E G#
C Harmonic Major - C E G# B D F A
D Romanian - D F A C E G# B
E Ahava Raba - E G# B D F A C
F Lydian Sharp Second - F A C E G# B D
G# Ultra-Locrian - G# B D F A C E

They spell the following chords:

Am/maj7 ---> 9 ---> 11 ---> b13
Bm7b5 ---> b9 ---> 11 ---> 13
Cmaj7+5 ---> 9 ---> 11 ---> 13
Dm7 ---> 9 ---> #11 ---> 13
E7 ---> 9 ---> 11 ---> b13
Fmaj7 ---> #9 ---> 11 ---> 13
G#dim7 ---> b9 ---> b11 ---> b13



Or the modes of the Melodic Minor scale:

A Melodic Minor - A B C D E F# G# A
B Phrygian Sharp Sixth - B C D E F# G# A B
C Lydian Augmented - C D E F# G# A B C
D Lydian Dominant - D E F# G# A B C D
E Hindu - E F# G# A B C D E
F# Locrian Minor - F# G# A B C D E F#
G# Altered - G# A B C D E F# G#

Re-ordered as per before:

A Melodic Minor - A C E G# B D F#
B Phrygian Sharp Sixth - B D F# A C E G#
C Lydian Augmented - C E G# B D F# A
D Lydian Dominant - D F# A C E G# B
E Hindu - E G# B D F# A C
F# Locrian Minor - F# A C E G# B D
G# Altered - G# B D F# A C E

And we have chords:

Am/maj7 ---> 9 ---> 11 ---> 13
Bm7 ---> b9 ---> 11 ---> 13
Cmaj7+5 ---> 9 ---> #11 ---> 13
D7 ---> 9 ---> #11 ---> 13
E7 ---> 9 ---> 11 ---> b13
F#m7b5 ---> 9 ---> 11 ---> 13
G#m7b5 ---> b9 ---> b11 ---> b13



The advantage of building chords from these modes and then soloing over them is that you'll always know what modes are good to use over the chords. After all, you built the chords directly from those modes . This isn't new information (certainly not to an adequate jazz theorist), but hopefully it'll give some of you a new perspective on how chords relate to scales, and how harmony relates to melody.
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Old 11-30-2003, 10:52 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by BirdsOfFires
That "" came straight from the ferret, to you, baby.
Heh.


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Old 12-13-2003, 05:21 PM   #38
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spastic,

could you please explain the harmonising of the major scale and harmonising of the melodic minor.

thanks.
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Old 12-13-2003, 11:03 PM   #39
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As you know, a 7th chord is made up of a 1, 3, 5, and 7. They can be altered any way you want, but to be a 7th chord it must have those components. To harmonize a scale means to take each note and construct a chord from that scale (Most people usually use 7th chords for this because it contains all the chord tones and no extensions). So...

To harmonize the Major scale, start off with the notes of the Major scale:

1 2 3 4 5 6 7

In C, that would be:

C D E F G A B


So, go through each note and find their relative 3, 5 and 7. (In this list I wrote down the note I harmonize, the name of its 7 chord, the chord tones relative to C, and the chord tones relative to the root in that order) [I also put the extenions in brackets, but ignore those if you are only learning harmonization]


C - C Maj7 - 1 3 5 7 - 1 3 5 7 [9 11 13]

D - D Min7 - 2 4 6 1 - 1 b3 5 b7 [9 11 13]

E - E Min7 - 3 5 7 2 - 1 b3 5 b7 [b9 11 b13]

F - F Maj7 - 4 6 1 3 - 1 3 5 7 [9 #11 13]

G - G Dom7 - 5 7 2 4 - 1 3 5 b7 [9 11 13]

A - A Min7 - 6 1 3 5 - 1 b3 5 b7 [9 11 b13]

B - B Min7b5 - 1 b3 b5 b7 [b9 11 b13]



For Melodic Minor, you do the same thing, except that the notes in the scale are differentm therefore the chords are different.

Melodic Minor:

1 2 b3 4 5 6 7

In C:

C D Eb F G A B

Here is the reharmonization, same pattern repeated as above:

C - C Min (Maj7) - 1 b3 5 7 - 1 b3 5 7 [9 11 13]

D - D Min7 - 2 4 6 1 - 1 b3 5 7 [b9 11 13]

Eb - Eb Maj7 #5 - b3 5 7 2 - 1 3 #5 7 [9 #11 13]

F - F Dom7 - 4 6 1 b3 - 1 3 5 b7 [9 #11 13]

G - G Dom7 - 5 7 2 4 - 1 3 5 b7 [9 11 b13]

A - A Min7b5 - 6 1 b3 5 - 1 b3 b5 b7 [9 11 b13]


The last note of the Melodic Minor scale is a bit different. It can be used as different chords:

B - B Min7b5 - 7 2 4 6 - 1 b3 b5 b7

OR more commonly, although this is slightly more complex:

B - B Dom7 - 1 3 b7 [b9 #9 #11 b13]



If you were just looking to understand harmonizing scales, ignore that last bit. Hope that helps



Questions:

IM: FreeMusicNo1
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Old 12-13-2003, 11:29 PM   #40
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Hi, my name's Walker, I'm too tired to talk to Ian yet I will write up a Lesson so I can be hailed throughout the land.
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Old 12-14-2003, 10:58 AM   #41
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Hi, I was just wondering if there was any place I could get a beginners version, or something that may have examlpes along with it, as I am a new musician. any of your tips would be appreciated.
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Old 12-14-2003, 11:00 AM   #42
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I also would like to compliment you guys on your superb knowledge. especially at such a young age.
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Old 12-14-2003, 11:34 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by TonyChoyIsGod
Hi, my name's Walker, I'm too tired to talk to Ian yet I will write up a Lesson so I can be hailed throughout the land.




That lesson took me half an hour to write, when during the day it would have only taken me 5 minutes.
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Old 12-16-2003, 07:54 PM   #44
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Lightbulb Circle of 4ths / 5ths, Basic Major Scale Theory, Chord Symbols, & Dom7 Chord

Circle of 4ths, that is, the next scale begins a 4th above the previous scale:

C -> F -> Bb -> Eb -> Ab -> C#/Db -> F#/Gb -> B/Cb -> E -> A -> D -> G -> C

Circle of 5ths, same as above, only the scale is a 5th above the previous

C -> G -> D -> A -> E -> B/Cb -> F#/Gb -> C#/Db -> Ab -> Eb -> Bb -> F -> C

If you notice, one is just a reversal of the other, therefore, in a Blues in C, the I IV V is

C F G

Basic Major Scale Theory

A Major Scale is not composed of 8 notes as much as it is composed of 2 sets of four, known as tetrachords. For example,

C D E F G A B C, the standard C major scale, is composed of the

C D E F
G A B C

tetrachords. When you look at the steps in betwen the notes, something interesting appears:
W = Whole Step
H = Half Step

C-----D-----E-----F
---W-----W----H---

G-----A-----B-----C
---W-----W----H---

The two tetrachords are tied together by a whole step, so the end result looks like

C-----D-----E-----F-----G-----A-----B-----C
---W-----W----H----W-----W----W----H---

Why is this important? Because it sounds the most "normal" to human ears. But why?

Play a from C to B and hold the B - you should notice that it feels incomplete, that there is something missing. Now play the C, and it will sound right - the B resolves or "pulls" to the C (note that there is a halfstep between C and B)

Now play C and play down to F and hold the F - you should notice the same thing, only backwards. Play the E, and you'll feel the resolution.

So what does this mean? That in the 2nd tetrachord, the resolution is from the 3rd to the 4th, and in the first tetrachord, the resolution is the opposite, from the 4th to the 3rd, or, in more general terms:

When playing, remember your two options for resolution are always (in terms of major scales): 7th (or derivation thereof, ie 15th) to tonic (either octave) or 4th to 3rd (or a derivation thereof, ie 11th).

Chord Symbols, what they mean

(C is root)

(Chord Symbol - Name - Which Notes of the Scale to Play - Scale Mode it belongs to (which degree the scale you start on))

C - C Major Triad - 1, 3, 5 - Ionian (1st degree)

Cmaj7 - C Major 7 - 1, 3, 5, 7 - Ionian (1st degree)

C6 - C Major 6 - 1, 3, 5, 6 - Ionian (1st degree)

C7 - C Dominant 7 - 1 , 3, 5, b7 - Mixolydian (5th degree)

Caug7, C+7 - Augmented 7 - 1, 3, #5, b7 - Phrygian (3rd degree) with a major third and a major 2nd (?)

Cm, Cmin, C- - Minor Triad - 1, b3 , 5 - Aeolian (6th degree)

Cm7, Cmin7, C-7 - Minor 7 - 1, b3, 5, b7 - Dorian (2nd degree)

Cmin6, C-6 - Minor 6 - 1, b3, 5, 6th - Aeolian (6th degree)

Cm7b5, C-7b5 - Minor 7 flat 5 or Half-Diminished - 1, b3, b5, b7 - Locrian (7th degree)

Co7, Cdim7 - Diminished 7 - 1, b3, b5, bb7 (6) - Lydian (4th degree) with a minor third (?)

Csus7 - Suspended 7 - 1, 4 (#3), 5, b7 - Mixolydian (5th degree) with an augmented 3rd (?)

See Previous Posts by Spastic for an explanation of Scale Modes

Dominant 7th Chord

In music, there is the basic idea of tension and release. One note/chord will build tension, then the next note/chord will release it. One of the most basic examples is the progression of the Dominant 7th chord (V7 chord) to the tonic chord (I). Whether arpeggiated or played as a chord, the effect is the same (for best results, play on a piano or guitar, or a similar chorded instrument):

G7
G B D F

resolves to

C
C E G

Theory on why this works:
*This is my theory, so it might not be correct*

The G7 chord contains the 4th of the C chord, so, therefore, when the G7 resolves to the C, there is a resolution from the 4th to the third. Also note that a G chord, without an F, will not pull to the C, but when the F is added, the pull is very noticeable.


Thats all for tonight, folks


Last edited by pyr0r0ck3r; 12-16-2003 at 08:02 PM.
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Old 12-23-2003, 10:49 PM   #45
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ok NONE of this makes ANY sense to me
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Old 12-23-2003, 10:56 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sternj20
ok NONE of this makes ANY sense to me

[URL=http://www.musicianforums.com/forums/login.php?do=logout]This will help you.[/url]
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Old 12-23-2003, 11:13 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maveryck
[URL=http://www.musicianforums.com/forums/login.php?do=logout]This will help you.[/url]
that just logged me out
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Old 01-01-2004, 06:37 PM   #48
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i think that was the whole point
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Old 01-05-2004, 05:34 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoroaster
Spastic:


I'm sorry to have to burst your bubble, but your grasp of music theory is as primitive as a rock. You fail to even touch upon the surface of enharmonic intervals; an imperative in jazz, and how it can be interrelated with tritone substitution. I suggest that you comprehend musical theory in its entirety beforehand you elevate yourself to the status of "Theory Guru".

P.S:
I have listened to your 'compositions' and I can only designate them with the term: pretentious. Your music is solely comprised of incoherent and dampening injections whose singular purpose is to impress upon the audience a sense of superiority. That, sir, is the mark of failure.

A dated argument I know, but what spastic is doing is giving a structured series of theory lessons to someone who knows the basics but needs to elaborate on their knowledge of theory if they want to expand into jazz. These threads of his have been totally invaluable to me, as have the suggestions, and probably also to dozens of other people. And youre talking about trying to impress a 'sense of superiority.' If you see something you think aught to be here, like enharmonic intervals, post an article.

Speaking of which, im not sure if triads and inversions have been covered, they are kind of important. I can probably get a fairly simplistic article done and up if you fancy sharing the thread.
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Old 01-12-2004, 05:14 PM   #50
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Ok... I don't know if this is the right forum for this... but ok. I need some notes translated from trumpet to alto sax. Then if you have time maybe explain how you do it as well. We'll figure out the octaves and other thing and change some stuff ourselves, but my friend and I are doing a little side project from our band since he plays sax. I need

G B D C F# A Bb and E

translated from trumpet to alto saxamaphone.

Thanks for further help.
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Old 01-23-2004, 05:06 PM   #51
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any one no how to make up some sick *** slap bass lines? any tips would help
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Old 01-27-2004, 09:34 PM   #52
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Question about Minor 6 chords:

If you were to play a Cmin6 chord, would you be playing Aeolian or Dorian? I was told by my bass teacher to play as if it were Dorian, but the lesson a few posts above says play it in Aeolian. So, do I play CEbGAb or CEbGA? Thanks.

Oh, and good work on all these lessons, they're really helping out a lot!
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Old 01-27-2004, 09:37 PM   #53
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Never mind about my question I dont need it answered anymore.
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Old 01-27-2004, 09:44 PM   #54
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Obsolute - Dorian. It has an A in it, not an Ab.
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Old 01-27-2004, 10:01 PM   #55
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Yep:

Quote:
Cmin6, C-6 - Minor 6 - 1, b3, 5, 6th - Aeolian (6th degree)

That's wrong. For it to be Aeolian the 6th needs to be flat.


Haven't posted in a while but I can't let my theory thread down.
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Old 01-27-2004, 10:21 PM   #56
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Fag muffin

:-*

Ah, there's nothing like the Jazz Forum.

To make this worth while: I was quite close to going to see Sean Malone do a Stick performance this summer, but it's 549 miles away . Who knows though, I might still go
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Old 01-28-2004, 01:12 PM   #57
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Spastic, that's what... your first post in jazz in two months?

You've let us down...

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Old 01-28-2004, 02:53 PM   #58
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Stupid and simple question...What exactly does "vamp" mean?
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Old 01-28-2004, 06:59 PM   #59
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"Not Found In This Thread - "Vamp""
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Old 01-28-2004, 07:20 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eggo
Stupid and simple question...What exactly does "vamp" mean?
A vamp is essentially a repeated phrase, chord, or very short chord progression that is used to introduce a song, or to solo over.
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