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Old 11-20-2012, 12:08 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by Daily Routine View Post
the evidence is that we know that co2 is a greenhouse gas
we know the history of levels and understand their source
we know how greenhouse gasses affect global mean temperature
we know that the recent rise in greenhouse gasses correlates more strongly than anything else with the recent rise in temperature and that this is congruent with our understanding of how things work

we know what is the best guess

and don't equivocate on the meaning of natural
past rises in temperature were always the result of some unusual, singular event, not some natural phase pattern. Temperature rises like this don't just happen - something we also fully understand - they're always the result of some massive input or redistribution of energy. This isn't like a pendulum type thing
wtf dude you whine about me equivocating on what is natural and then you go and do it

what is natural is what happens

even if you dont think natural is the right word for that then what would that have to do with anything

these events have been happening in a pattern

this event fits with that pattern

and you stating this stuff about what we understand isnt evidence, in fact you've given me no more information than i had before i asked for it (i.e. a number of people think this is what is happening)

though i dont hold out much hope since your standard of evidence seems to on the level of we have more of these two things now, one must have caused the other

ridic

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Old 11-20-2012, 12:11 AM   #92
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they haven't been happening in a regular pattern
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Old 11-20-2012, 12:16 AM   #93
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400,000 years ago - temperature spike
300,000 years ago - temperature spike
200,000 years ago - temperature spike
100,000 years ago - temperature spike
today - temperature spike

even if this wasnt the case the evidence is still ridiculous
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Old 11-20-2012, 03:01 AM   #94
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ITS NOVEMBER OF COURSE IT GONNA BE COLD AS FUCK
a
it's in the 80's F here tomorrow
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:17 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10906987358702 View Post
wtf dude you whine about me equivocating on what is natural and then you go and do it

what is natural is what happens

even if you dont think natural is the right word for that then what would that have to do with anything

these events have been happening in a pattern

this event fits with that pattern

and you stating this stuff about what we understand isnt evidence, in fact you've given me no more information than i had before i asked for it (i.e. a number of people think this is what is happening


though i dont hold out much hope since your standard of evidence seems to on the level of we have more of these two things now, one must have caused the other

ridic
atmospheric co2 levels topping 390ppm etc
its all correllation and understanding causation
what I described is as much evidence as you could have for any other possibility
I'm not going to give you a full data set

Last edited by Daily Routine; 11-20-2012 at 08:01 AM.
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:51 AM   #96
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i dont think you understand the causation

i think you believe in it because you think you should
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:58 AM   #97
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the causation is stupidly simple

I think you don't believe in it either cuz you don't wanna or you see an exhaust pipe and think to yourself "THAT'S causing global warming?! pfffft get real"

so this is going nowhere
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Old 11-20-2012, 09:02 AM   #98
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you think the causation is simple because you don't understand it

no well informed proponent would claim that the mechanisms involved arent incredibly complex
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Old 11-20-2012, 04:30 PM   #99
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their manifestation is irreducibly complex

but the principles themselves aren't

which basically goes for everything everywhere
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Old 11-20-2012, 08:07 PM   #100
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quantum physics is so simple, duh
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Old 11-21-2012, 01:57 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by Daily Routine View Post
their manifestation is irreducibly complex

but the principles themselves aren't

which basically goes for everything everywhere
everything is based on comparatively simple first principles what does that have to do with you understanding the macro mechanisms involved in climate change

electrons in certain gaseous molecules absorb electromagnetic radiation at the IR end of the spectrum

hence a couple of extra cyclones hit japan

simples
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Old 11-21-2012, 07:50 AM   #102
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no ones talking about cyclones

but understanding how rising temperatures increase weather volatility through evaporation and the confluence of air currents or low pressure zones probably isn't all that difficult to understand either
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Old 11-21-2012, 06:45 PM   #103
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I have a bet with a climate change denialist that he probably won't be around to lose next year

there's gonna be a lot of egg on people's faces in the coming years I think
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Old 11-21-2012, 07:53 PM   #104
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why won't he be around
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Old 11-21-2012, 08:14 PM   #105
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embarrassment
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Old 11-21-2012, 08:15 PM   #106
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in retrospect last year's Arctic ice thaw is going to be a tough act to follow

there may well be some mean reversion but I should win at least the first two months of that bet
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