Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread
Old 04-27-2012, 10:04 AM   #8821
American Motor
Dirty city snow
 
American Motor's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 6,247
guys, listen
http://newwings.bandcamp.com/album/ground-sits-on-ground
I know the album starts kinda slow but if you have 40 minutes to waste then you should turn this up real loud and rock out

oh and the toms sound bad and we fuck up a bunch

Last edited by American Motor; 04-27-2012 at 10:14 AM.
American Motor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2012, 10:41 AM   #8822
Vinnie's Ice Cream
You want some ice cream!?
 
Vinnie's Ice Cream's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,216
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
Thinking of adding another floor-tom to my new kit. Can't decide if I want 15" or 16" though.
What are the other sizes? You want to maintain the "family" of intervals between drums.
Vinnie's Ice Cream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2012, 05:23 PM   #8823
Drum Phil
Mine is an evil laugh
 
Drum Phil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Tharsus, Mars
Posts: 23,296
I thought about a special dry but the sound doesn't really appeal to me for some reason
Drum Phil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2012, 06:53 PM   #8824
Aaron
Max Headroom
 
Aaron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Ride The Wave
Posts: 30,638
Really? I play a few of them and love them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie's ice cream View Post
what are the other sizes? You want to maintain the "family" of intervals between drums.
10, 12, 14.
Aaron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2012, 09:50 PM   #8825
spirit
didn't you get the meme?
 
spirit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Lahndahn
Posts: 10,418
personally, the largest tom only being 1" bigger than the 14" would bug me. i'd go for 16", but that's just me.
spirit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2012, 11:17 AM   #8826
billdrum
Time Is Of The Essence
Moderator
 
billdrum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: IL
Posts: 4,755
I play a 14 and 15. Because I am mounting on a rack, I didn't want a 16. It works really well for me.
__________________
MXDP Peace & Time Keeper
billdrum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2012, 11:02 AM   #8827
Vinnie's Ice Cream
You want some ice cream!?
 
Vinnie's Ice Cream's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,216
ya, I wouldn't mix a 14 and 15 either having 10,12,14 being what's ahead of it.

I use 16" rack toms, never had issues. Yamaha though, rock solid gear. Other companies not so much.

If you are talking about the yellow short stack kit you have, weight won't be an issue anyway because they are so shallow.
Vinnie's Ice Cream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2012, 06:31 PM   #8828
Aaron
Max Headroom
 
Aaron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Ride The Wave
Posts: 30,638
Yeah that kit. It'd be 8x15 or 8x16.
Aaron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2012, 07:56 PM   #8829
Steffanwolf
Registered User
 
Steffanwolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: New Brunswick, Canada
Posts: 305
there's something symmetrical about 8" x 16"...
Steffanwolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2012, 11:04 PM   #8830
Pearl2004
MX ex-getdrunkandpost guy
 
Pearl2004's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: southwest va
Posts: 614
Almost too symmetrical, it might produce a magic sound that kills people divisible by 4 :0
Pearl2004 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2012, 09:45 AM   #8831
Vinnie's Ice Cream
You want some ice cream!?
 
Vinnie's Ice Cream's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,216
What is the depth of the 14"?
Vinnie's Ice Cream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2012, 09:54 AM   #8832
Pearl2004
MX ex-getdrunkandpost guy
 
Pearl2004's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: southwest va
Posts: 614
7", all his toms are the same ratio
Pearl2004 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2012, 09:58 AM   #8833
Vinnie's Ice Cream
You want some ice cream!?
 
Vinnie's Ice Cream's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,216
Well that makes it easy doesn't it?

Use the same shell and edges, and they'll all be one happy family.


Interesting I remember when OCDP came out with the short stack toms a LONG time ago, I think DW did it for awhile too. Lacking in power and projection big time, but make for one super portable tiny little kit.
Vinnie's Ice Cream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2012, 12:22 PM   #8834
Pearl2004
MX ex-getdrunkandpost guy
 
Pearl2004's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: southwest va
Posts: 614
I find the shallow sizes appealing cuz I'm kind of short, well, maybe more than that, I'm just not very tall at all, but, I hate angling my toms very much
Pearl2004 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2012, 03:48 PM   #8835
Aaron
Max Headroom
 
Aaron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Ride The Wave
Posts: 30,638
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinnie's Ice Cream View Post
Well that makes it easy doesn't it?

Use the same shell and edges, and they'll all be one happy family.


Interesting I remember when OCDP came out with the short stack toms a LONG time ago, I think DW did it for awhile too. Lacking in power and projection big time, but make for one super portable tiny little kit.
I find projection not to be an issue if they're tuned right.
Aaron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2012, 04:20 PM   #8836
Vinnie's Ice Cream
You want some ice cream!?
 
Vinnie's Ice Cream's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,216
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
I find projection not to be an issue if they're tuned right.
It's a simple matter of a physics. Less drum = less sound. A 14x7 floor tom just can't compete with a 14x14 floor tom.


In most the cases, unless you are particularly short (or young), tom height shouldn't be an issue. It's most likely your posture. Take a video of you playing from the side to check.

Last edited by Vinnie's Ice Cream; 04-30-2012 at 04:23 PM.
Vinnie's Ice Cream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2012, 04:36 PM   #8837
spirit
didn't you get the meme?
 
spirit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Lahndahn
Posts: 10,418
volume != projection

i suppose it would be more accurate to say that volume isn't the only component of projection, but it's less pithy.

also, considering the sound comes from the head, not the drum, way to not make any god damned sense

and when in the bollocking fuck did aaron say he got short stack toms because he was short? if he did, i'll retract the question, if not, stop bringing up irrelevant shit
spirit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2012, 07:04 PM   #8838
Aaron
Max Headroom
 
Aaron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Ride The Wave
Posts: 30,638
It's not really accurate to say more depth equals greater projection.

Also I'm 6'0" and 26 years old. Ain't either of those things.

Last edited by Aaron; 04-30-2012 at 07:22 PM.
Aaron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2012, 07:55 PM   #8839
Pearl2004
MX ex-getdrunkandpost guy
 
Pearl2004's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: southwest va
Posts: 614
Good call on the posture actually, my throne has given me that bad habit, but it's not that bad, I just like my toms barely higher than my snare, honestly if I could afford a custom kit it would look like a child's kit haha, 20x20 bd, Tom sizes like Aaron, also I play may cymbals low too,
Pearl2004 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2012, 06:42 AM   #8840
Drum Phil
Mine is an evil laugh
 
Drum Phil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Tharsus, Mars
Posts: 23,296
Makes me laugh that OCDP have changed to a bog standard company nowadays. The whole point of them was those ridiculous kits people custom ordered and now, they don't do custom kits except for their top tier endorsers.
Drum Phil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2012, 08:47 AM   #8841
billdrum
Time Is Of The Essence
Moderator
 
billdrum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: IL
Posts: 4,755
They must have not been making money that way.
__________________
MXDP Peace & Time Keeper
billdrum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2012, 09:56 AM   #8842
Pearl2004
MX ex-getdrunkandpost guy
 
Pearl2004's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: southwest va
Posts: 614
And I have heard so many horror stories about their production kits, ugh, I didn't know they stopped the customs either
Pearl2004 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2012, 11:32 AM   #8843
spirit
didn't you get the meme?
 
spirit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Lahndahn
Posts: 10,418
so now there is absolutely no reason to buy an ocdp kit (not that there was anyway really) ?

superb
spirit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2012, 11:43 AM   #8844
Pearl2004
MX ex-getdrunkandpost guy
 
Pearl2004's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: southwest va
Posts: 614
For real, but, custom companies are everywhere these days, so we still have places to get our 45 ply snares from :/
Pearl2004 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2012, 02:41 PM   #8845
Vinnie's Ice Cream
You want some ice cream!?
 
Vinnie's Ice Cream's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,216
Almost all production drums have issues, doesn't matter from what company. Unless it's a high end kit, you do get what you pay for.

My kits are beautiful, hand built, hand finished, hand checked, and hand checked again here in the US. However the price also reflects this.

It's very rare for drum shops, Guitar Center, etc to "stock" anything high end now a days because most are made to order and it's a gamble if that kit is EXACTLY what somebody wants to spend $8,000 on....

Figure, if it's on the floor. It's a mid-low level kit.


Quote:
Originally Posted by spirit View Post
also, considering the sound comes from the head, not the drum, way to not make any god damned sense
You've been misled. Who told you the sound comes from the head of a drum?

The sound produced by a drum comes from the air vibrating. That's what sound is - vibrations in the air. A two headed drum works differently then a single headed drum. This is why a single headed drum can be tuned to a note (EG Timpani) and a 2 headed drum can never be tuned to a note (despite what people may claim).

The sound of a two headed drum is generated from several things. From the air volume inside the shell being excited (the impact and subsequent head movement), from the shell itself vibrating (the impact on the head being translated via the bearing edge into the shell) and from additional factors, hardware, rims, venting, etc

If, as you say, the sound comes from the head - then why have the shell?

In fact, if that's true, why is their so much emphasis put on shells and so little put on heads. The industry standard Coated Ambassador hasn't changed in 20 years. But the drums have big time, and has the sound they produce.

You may even refer to DW, who mounts and strikes every shell (with no heads on it) to find out what the tonal center of the shell is. They then group their drum sets by pitches.

Referring to "projection" or the ability for sound to be heard at distance, is not relational to "volume". They are different things. Volume is one part of the equation of projection, but it is not all of it. This gets into very complex physics.

Let's just say it's akin to amplitude and voltage. High voltage with little current is relatively harmless (police tasers), the same voltage with high amplitude is deadly.

In the end, all factors together. A bigger drum will be louder and projector better then a smaller drum, diameter's being equal.

You can see this with bass drums, snare drums, etc, etc.. bass drums are perhaps the most noticeable.

A 20x10" kick drum doesn't hold a candle to a 20x20" kick drum. The same is true for a 14x7 tom and a 14x14 tom.

Quote:
and when in the bollocking fuck did aaron say he got short stack toms because he was short? if he did, i'll retract the question, if not, stop bringing up irrelevant shit
He did not. I was referring to yours (or someone elses) comment about mounting toms and not wanting to angle them so much do to height issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drum Phil View Post
Makes me laugh that OCDP have changed to a bog standard company nowadays. The whole point of them was those ridiculous kits people custom ordered and now, they don't do custom kits except for their top tier endorsers.
That is incorrect. From the OCDP site:

"Does OCDP still make USA drums?

YES!!! Our California factory is alive and well (although we moved). We are currently building USA Custom drums for our artists and customers. Feel free to order YOURS today!

If you need further assistance, please click here to contact our technical support department."

Last edited by Vinnie's Ice Cream; 05-01-2012 at 02:57 PM.
Vinnie's Ice Cream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2012, 03:01 PM   #8846
spirit
didn't you get the meme?
 
spirit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Lahndahn
Posts: 10,418
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinnie's Ice Cream View Post
You've been misled. Who told you the sound comes from the head of a drum?

...blah blah blah...
cool. take the head off your drum and try and make a sound. it's ok, i'll wait.
spirit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2012, 03:09 PM   #8847
Pearl2004
MX ex-getdrunkandpost guy
 
Pearl2004's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: southwest va
Posts: 614
Vinnie is right on the volume projection battle, but, it shouldn't ever be an argument over what drums are louder, tonal quality is what matters, and the head does have its own distinct sound that is factored in, that's why we buy killer mic's that blend all this together!
Pearl2004 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2012, 03:32 PM   #8848
Vinnie's Ice Cream
You want some ice cream!?
 
Vinnie's Ice Cream's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,216
Indeed. Though I'm very on the fence about suspension internal micing and external close micing. If it only didn't cost a small fortune to try out what I want...

Quote:
Originally Posted by spirit View Post
cool. take the head off your drum and try and make a sound. it's ok, i'll wait.
Don't be obtuse. The head is an integral part of the drum. But it is not the dictator of sound.

A First Act 12" tom and a DW 12" tom with the same heads won't even sound remotely close. That simple fact clearly shows how much the head is part of the drum sound.
Vinnie's Ice Cream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2012, 03:50 PM   #8849
Pearl2004
MX ex-getdrunkandpost guy
 
Pearl2004's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: southwest va
Posts: 614
But, because all drums are made basically the same way, a shell, hardware, hoop, budget drums and High end drums can sound very close, if you spend 1000-1500$ on shells, it really is hard to tell the difference between those and a shell pack that's configured the same, but costs 8-10,000, there is a difference, but not a lot, with micing techniques and knowing how to tune, you can really get by with a budget kit
Pearl2004 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2012, 03:51 PM   #8850
Pearl2004
MX ex-getdrunkandpost guy
 
Pearl2004's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: southwest va
Posts: 614
Btw, I'm definitely not trying to knock high end kits, the one I'd like to have with cymbals and all will cost me approximately 15,000$, and it's a small set up, so, again, not trying to knock, just adding to the convo
Pearl2004 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:48 AM.