Obama's FP

[lfantwister]

notable quote from this article:
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/Obama-can_t-be-community-organizer-for-the-world-8474690-68743857.html

Obama approaches foreign affairs as he would neighborhood issues.

so, without a cogent philosophy.

Brief history:
gets the nobel prize
talks about Iraq, Afghanistan
forgets Poland
ignores N Korean tests

how is he the leader of the free world?

[Mr. Ron]

He's not much of a leader. He only does what I like to call "managing". He doesn't want to act too hastily or at all, so he doesn't risk upsetting his base. He just talks and talks.

[guitarded_chuck]

would you rather say bush

if the man could do what he wanted things would get done but unfortunately there is a dumbass party and a party half-or-more filled with dumbasses holding him back. not to mention the masses of tea baggers that call him socialist etc when they have no idea what that means

what do you want really

[lfantwister]

He has majority in both the senate and the house, how are they holding him back?

And I'd argue teabaggers arent as dumb as they're caricatured to be (although that doesnt make them smart)

[guitarded_chuck]

maybe because (like i mentioned) half the party is against him?

and you've got to be ****in kidding me

http://www.verumserum.com/media/2009/03/obama-protest-300x259.jpg
http://www.seraphicpress.com/images/obama%20protest.jpg
http://horiwood.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/0hallocaustracism.jpg (this guy must have forgotten tax rates have either not changed or gone down or maybe he's a COMPLETE TOOL)
http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/v/w/2/dont-steal-medicare.jpg
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/images/gallery-912march17.jpg

i can keep going if you want

[Mr. Ron]

Originally Posted by guitarded_chuck

would you rather say bush

if the man could do what he wanted things would get done but unfortunately there is a dumbass party and a party half-or-more filled with dumbasses holding him back. not to mention the masses of tea baggers that call him socialist etc when they have no idea what that means

what do you want really

He has majority. He can get stuff done if he wants to.


Plus I don't see how any of the tea party people have any real bearing on his inaction.

Originally Posted by guitarded_chuck

maybe because (like i mentioned) half the party is against him?

and you've got to be ****in kidding me

http://www.verumserum.com/media/2009/03/obama-protest-300x259.jpg
http://www.seraphicpress.com/images/obama%20protest.jpg
http://horiwood.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/0hallocaustracism.jpg (this guy must have forgotten tax rates have either not changed or gone down or maybe he's a COMPLETE TOOL)
http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/v/w/2/dont-steal-medicare.jpg
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/images/gallery-912march17.jpg

i can keep going if you want

So you can find images of retards at protests. Cool. Anyone can do that. Maybe I can find a pic of a black stealing something and say they all do it.

[guitarded_chuck]

Originally Posted by Mr. Ron

He has majority. He can get stuff done if he wants to.

maybe you miss the point that individuals can vote either way and half the democratic party is voting against obama's policies

Plus I don't see how any of the tea party people have any real bearing on his inaction.

media loves this ****. media basically runs the country. therefore tea baggers are given influence.

So you can find images of retards at protests. Cool. Anyone can do that. Maybe I can find a pic of a black stealing something and say they all do it.

that guy said maybe the tea baggers have a point. i was showing how stupid they are and how stupid he is to give them any credibility.

[Mr. Ron]

Originally Posted by guitarded_chuck

maybe you miss the point that individuals can vote either way and half the democratic party is voting against obama's policies




media loves this ****. media basically runs the country. therefore tea baggers are given influence.




that guy said maybe the tea baggers have a point. i was showing how stupid they are and how stupid he is to give them any credibility.

No, you showed a few nutters that don't represent all of the people at those rallies. Crazy people are drawn to big gatherings no matter what, doesn't mean that those few people define the whole crowd.

[guitarded_chuck]

most conservative american republicans imo are crazies though

but the main (and 1st) point related to the thread topic i'm getting across is:

if the man could do what he wanted things would get done but unfortunately there is a dumbass party and a party half-or-more filled with dumbasses holding him back.

[Mr. Ron]

Originally Posted by guitarded_chuck

most conservative american republicans imo are crazies though

but the main (and 1st) point related to the thread topic i'm getting across tho is:

explain



yeah some of them are against him because he's proposing crazy policies

[RetiredAt21]

I think what we're all forgetting is that if you disagree with Obama you're a racist.

[guitarded_chuck]

generally of course..

- they support a pointless war lying to their people in order to gain cheap access to oil
- they propose lies to the public about the opposition in order to gain votes
- sarah palin was selected to run for vice president
- they oppose universal health care
- they are skeptical of global warming ie. science + essentially don't give a **** about the environment
- they oppose gay marriage
- they oppose abortion
- they want to assbang jesus
- spend way too much on the military
- have racists in their midst

i mean i could go on all night but i got this homework to do.

yeah some of them are against him because he's proposing crazy policies

your turn.. explain

[Mr. Ron]

Originally Posted by guitarded_chuck

generally of course..

- they support a pointless war lying to their people in order to gain cheap access to oil
- they propose lies to the public about the opposition in order to gain votes
- sarah palin was selected to run for vice president
- they oppose universal health care
- they are skeptical of global warming ie. science + essentially don't give a **** about the environment
- they oppose gay marriage
- they oppose abortion
- they want to assbang jesus
- spend way too much on the military
- have racists in their midst

i mean i could go on all night but i got this homework to do.



your turn.. explain

You're still generalizing Republicans/Conservatives. Their not just a monolithic entity.




Health care.

[guitarded_chuck]

yeah i acknowledged i was generalizing did you see that word i guess not

universal health care is a crazy idea yet the rest of the developed world has it and is healthier/lives longer

[Mr. Ron]

Originally Posted by guitarded_chuck

yeah i acknowledged i was generalizing did you see that word i guess not

universal health care is a crazy idea yet the rest of the developed world has it and is healthier/lives longer

You're missing the finer points. We have a lot more people than those nations.

[jaredong]

People suggest that obama has a majority, and hence should be able to quickly past legislation.However, the american political system just does not work that way.

Theres the issue between parliamentary and presidential systems. With a parliamentary system, parties have high party discipline. Hence, party members vote the same; else theres a vote of non-confidence and there is a re-election with the chance of losing power. Conversely, the USpresidential system has low party discipline. Congress members / Senate members typically look out for their local constituents/lobby groups.

In addition, the passing of legislation is very difficult process. Committees, hearings, votes, amendments, having both chambers pass it, presidential vetos, etc. In short, lots of chances to say "no" and kill legislation.

tl dr; Just because Obama has a majority, it doesnt mean he can push everything through. Low party discipline and tricky legislative process complicates things.

[Jaundice]

came to this thread thinking it said Obama's EP, lol

[jaredong]

In terms of the article, i dont think its very good. It examines Obama's past as an organizer, then connects it with a quote that says his foreign policy is like an organizer. But, it doesnt actually examine any of Obama's foreign policy actions.

I disagree that having foreign policy based on "shared interests" means having no cogent foreign policy. Assuming that the world is becoming more equalized (with the rise of Russia/China/India etc), no country can unilaterally act alone. The US was an unparalleled superpower in the decades after WWII. Not anymore. Hence, I believe it is rational to have a foreign policy based on multilateralism and cooperation. In other words, one that works towards the shared interests of the world.

[Iskandar]

Originally Posted by Mr. Ron

We have a lot more people than those nations.

Also more money.

[Smokey D]

Originally Posted by Mr. Ron

You're missing the finer points. We have a lot more people than those nations.

Without wanting to derail a discussion of Obama's foreign policy with a healthcare discussion, I don't think "we got more people" is a reason in itself that universal care would not work. And I hardly think it counts as a "finer point".

Not that Obama is suggesting universal care or anything.

He's not much of a leader. He only does what I like to call "managing". He doesn't want to act too hastily or at all, so he doesn't risk upsetting his base. He just talks and talks.

I'm not sure there is anything wrong with this style of leadership (it is leadership). It's a lot better than the impulsive and reflexive approach adopted by the former Administration, which essentially boiled down to "Have a goal first, work out how to get there later". Obama, hopefully, has adopted the more sensible approach that in complex things like international affairs, an end is not always separable from its means. However, I accept that stronger direction from on high would lead to more goals more quickly. Obama is currently operating on the basis -- both domestically and internationally -- that if he can build consensus, more people will buy into the result and more stability will be produced.

Also, it has to be remembered that Obama inherited a cluster **** and his ability to exert influence overseas is severely constrained by the hangovers from the Bush Administration's policies and the deficit caused by both the wars themselves and the two Administration's response to the financial crisis. In part, this is counterbalanced by the general good will people seem to have for him internationally but that can only take him so far.