How NOT to advertise yourself...

[Moseph]

Originally Posted by DrummerJonny

i deal a fair bit with pro audio companies, and my basic line is (unless for small bits) "if the price is on their website, take caution". i find a lot of the time the best people are those who don't need to advertise prices, as they already have a good customer base.

That's interesting, because I'm generally skeptical of a website that doesn't have rate information, unless they've got a client list a mile long with lots of samples.

If they're not established in the area (or at larger regional level), then the price point probably shouldn't be held close to the vest (unless it's unreasonably high or something). I guess I'm making the assumption that the predominant craigslist postings are from posters without notoreity or a stable client base.

I think we may be in agreement on this: what do you mean by "small bits"?

[Seafroggys]

I think its good to have rates, but rates are so variable. For example, "mastering" houses may say $25 per song. Okay great, but my CD is technically 1 song. Granted, it is sub-divided into 12 sections, but I could argue that they could master my entire CD for $25.

This one guy over at homerecording.com, Massive Master, does have variable rates for mastering. He charges more for the label backed cats, and for us home recorders he has a massively discounted rate that he will negotiate.

[Moseph]

Originally Posted by Seafroggys

I think its good to have rates, but rates are so variable. For example, "mastering" houses may say $25 per song. Okay great, but my CD is technically 1 song. Granted, it is sub-divided into 12 sections, but I could argue that they could master my entire CD for $25.

Right, but they could always counter argue that they'd rather not accept your business on those terms. My point is that you as their client had a good idea of what to expect when you started working with them.

Originally Posted by Seafroggys

This one guy over at homerecording.com, Massive Master, does have variable rates for mastering. He charges more for the label backed cats, and for us home recorders he has a massively discounted rate that he will negotiate.

This also goes back to my original point: he's made his pricing structure known to you.

I'm not saying it's objectively good to have your rates known upfront. However, there is a certain segment of the competition out there who are doing it: why make potential clients do more work to find out what they want from you? Those that are freer with their info are probably more attractive to the first-time client.

I think this fact is exacerbated when there's such a glut of good (and bad) talent out there looking for work. If good customer service (such as being open about your pricing) gives a better image than the next guy, sometimes that's going to be the thing that gets you the job over him.

[Moseph]

Originally Posted by Seafroggys

Wow that was the worst teacher ad I've ever seen

Okay, now this is too funny.

I saw the ad as I posted above virtually unchanged on CL about 2-5x weekly for literally the last 2 years.

The guy changed things up for the first time this week. I still get the "afterthought" impression for the guitar aspect of it (is there something wrong with being a bass tutor?), but it's quite a bit cleaned up along the lines of what was mentioned here.

I'm wondering if he's a Sputnik Forum user...

I swear I'm not making any of this up.

[gaslight]

As a bass player who doubles on teaching bass and guitar I have to admit, having the ability to teach guitar as well is almost essential to getting by unless you are very well known because bass students as much rarer than guitar students. I would not be surprised if the ratio of guitar students to bass students is 50:1.

That is funny about him changing it though, may well have taken your observations on board.

[Moseph]

Not a studio this time, somebody looking to form a band.

Title is "SEMI PRO/PRO MUSICIANS WANT TO START A PROG METAL/DOOM/SLUDGE BAND???"

34 year old vocalist from [location redacted] in search of musical brethren that share my passion for tunes with dark, nasty, bluesy, innovative riffs and hooks that would make even the most hardened death metal fan blush. Looking to slow things down in the style of doom/stoner/sludge/progressive metal.

No theatrics, no cheese, no gimmicks, no high pitched screaming like a girl, no lightning fast playing, no blast beats, no ballads, no artsy fartsy crap, no vikings, no pirates, nothing labeled "core", no death metal vampires, no cliches, no druggies, no "musician available" types, no amateurs, nothing mainstream, nobody younger than 25, nobody older than 35, no girls (sorry ladies), no emo, no copycats, no pop, no indie, no nu-metal, no funk, no folk rock, no college rock, no shredding lead players, nobody from the suburbs trying to play the blues, nobody without serious pro equipment, no horrible taste in music, and last but not least NO BULLpoop.

BANDS THAT ARE NOT CONSIDERED INFLUENTIAL: AMON AMARTH, BREAKING BENJAMIN, COHEED & CAMBRIA, GODSMACK, DISTURBED, AVENGED SEVENFOLD, DREAM THEATER, KILLSWITCH ENGAGE, SLIPKNOT, BULLET FOR MY VALENTINE, GREEN DAY, STONE SOUR, THE DEVIL WEARS PRADA, WOLFMOTHER, 311, BLINK 182, MATCHBOX 20, COLLECTIVE SOUL, LIVE, DMB, U2, ARCTIC MONKEYS, COLDPLAY, RADIOHEAD, THE BLACK KEYS.


BANDS THAT ARE CONSIDERED INFLUENTIAL: METALLICA, SLAYER, MEGADETH, DEATH, PANTERA, BLACK SABBATH, KING CRIMSON, YES, RUSH, ELP, THE RAMONES, BLACK FLAG, DANZIG, GUNS N ROSES, ALICE IN CHAINS, SOUNDGARDEN, NIRVANA, DAVID BOWIE, JANES ADDICTION, THE POLICE, MESHUGGAH, MASTODON, NEUROSIS, CLUTCH, LAMB OF GOD, THE MELVINS, TOOL, THE CARS, PINK FLOYD, LED ZEPPELIN, CREAM, THE WHO.


SERIOUS SEMI PRO/PRO GUITARISTS, DRUMMERS AND BASSISTS THINK THIS AD RESONATES WITH YOU? THEN LET'S GET TOGETHER NOW!!!

Just in general, this isn't the kind of thing you want to post if you're looking for somebody to play with. Essentially, you go out of your way to eliminate as many possible musicians in your immediate area as possible, without really specifying what you do want.

The age thing in particular is especially strange. Here's a tip, don't require that any applicant be between 25-35 when you yourself are 34. What, you're gonna quit the band in the next 24 months on principle?

Also, telling us who is and isn't influential is insulting, and in some cases completely wrong. At minimum, Radiohead have influenced a metric crap-ton of musicians. Clearly style wasn't considered in those lists either: The Cars are obviously pop; Megadeth is clearly a shred lead guitar band; about 80% of the "influential" list are easily called mainstream (which the poster said was a no-no).

[Seafroggys]

FREE MASTERING IN THE Portland AREA!!!! Hello all, I'm offering free Mastering with professional gear and over 10 years of pro audio experience to artists in the Portland area and there is obviously a limited amount as to the number of free projects I can take. Your albums will be mastered with top-notch tube and solid state OUTBOARD analog mastering equipment and high-end outboard converters by the likes of Crane Song, Weiss, API, etc - not some cheap plug-ins. I only have 4 stipulations and the cost is free to you: .

1. You MUST be the owner of the material you send me, as I don't want to infringe on anyone's IP rights.

2. If this is a commercial release, you MUST credit me in the CD liner notes.

3. You should have your album tracks already mixed – or at least, close to being mixed down, as I don’t do mixing, producing, or recording, just MASTERING. Also, I do not master singles, only albums that are already completed or on the verge of being completed – this does not mean 6 months away ;o)

4. You must have a website or links to where I can hear your tracks. This shows me that you’re serious and I can decide if its something I want to pursue.

Due to my busy schedule, I can only take on 2 projects a week, so if I don’t get back to, I preemptively apologize as I book up quickly and it’s first come, first serve. Look forward to hearing from some creative artists and have a great day!

If he's spent all that money on quality outboard gear, he'd be crazy to offer it free. Does he not have a name for himself? If not, then maybe investing in all that gear would be a bad idea.

1: Sounds like a good idea, although what about people who do cover songs that have mechanical licensing and shtuff like that?

2: Makes sense, although he seems to be an *** about it.

3: I like this, although he shouldn't say "close" as well...they SHOULD be mixed and sounding as good as possible before he gets them.

4: He asks for website, yet he lists none?

[Moseph]

Originally Posted by Seafroggys

If he's spent all that money on quality outboard gear, he'd be crazy to offer it free. Does he not have a name for himself? If not, then maybe investing in all that gear would be a bad idea.

I think your assessment is accurate, but there's a minute chance nothing weird is going on here. You could make the same accusations about me and my setup (I haven't done a session since March), though my gear isn't quite at the same tier of expense as he is claiming about his.

Originally Posted by Seafroggys

1: Sounds like a good idea, although what about people who do cover songs that have mechanical licensing and shtuff like that?

2: Makes sense, although he seems to be an *** about it.

(01) I tend to hold the same stipulation, though in an official capacity. Generally speaking, it's a lot of legwork to make sure that the client has jumped through the proper hoops to make this legal. It's easier to side-step the whole situation entirely (though I'll generally record a cover so long as I have in writing that it won't be used for commercial release).

(02) This is another stipulation I maintain, and very strictly: when you're working for nothing or next-to-nothing, the credit is probably the biggest payment involved. Here's my question: how would you phrase it differently so it doesn't make you seem like an ***?

I didn't get that impression reading it, and I can't think of a more straight-forward way to say it (this isn't me arguing, it's a legitimate question).

[Seafroggys]

the whole "MUST" seems kinda asshat-ish, that's all.

[Moseph]

ProTools Certified recording and mixing engineer available! Currently booking sessions for recording and/or mixing. For the low rate of $40/hour you get access to a commercial recording studio with high quality equipment. Serious inquiries only please!!!!!!

Are you looking for somewhere to record your songs? Do you need Professional mixing and/or recording services? If so, then you need to look no further. I am a ProTools Certified engeineer currently booking studio sessions in a commercial recording facility. How much would such services cost me, you ask? Only $40/hour!!!!! Please e-mail to discuss further! Serious inquiries only please!....

ProTools Certified mixing and recording engineer currently booking studio sessions!!!! For the low rate of $40/hour you can get your music professionally recorded and mixed to industry standards!!! Serious inquiries onlyh, please!!!!!

Though I cannot confirm, you've probably suspected as I have that these three posts are all put there by the same person. This is probably the case, and each ad was put in a different "neighborhood" section of my local Craigslist. Why is this a problem? Well, people get annoyed by that, especially those who don't filter results by neighborhood. All three of these got flagged pretty fast.

Other than that nothing hugely wrong here, except if you're actually a Digidesign-certified Pro Tools operator, you probably shouldn't spell it "ProTools." Also, I'd advise giving more info for contact and/or studio: each of these quotes is the entire text of the respective ad. We really don't glean any information from them other than a craigslist email contact, and after the ads are flagged, that's gone too.

[Moseph]

Band practice/recording studio for low badget. Help me pay my rent.

Messa Boogie MK3 stack. Small Guitar Amps, Belinger Bass Amp, PA and Drums. Are you by yourself? We have musicians available to help your project. And I can record band live with Zoom recorder and mastering on Cuebase and make your CD.

This is not business. I just need to come up some money to keep this place. Please SERIOUS MUSICIANS only.

This is an interesting one. While they say upfront that it's not really a business, they also insist on "SERIOUS" musicians only. Here's my question: what would compel a serious musician to pay to practice at somebody's house? If they were serious, wouldn't they already have that aspect figured out?

Also, I think its strange that if you're trying to compel people to come give you money to SAVE YOUR HOME, that you'd misspell the name of virtually every product you mention. My impression of this ad is that it's probably a situation I want to avoid, not only to save my money but possibly for safety's sake.

[Moseph]

Professional Recording Studio in [location redacted] Our Studio is an audio production house We do voice-over recording, music vocal recording and production, audio post and sound design for radio ads, TV commercials, film corporate video, podcasts, CD-ROMS - well, you get the picture. However, our particular niche is that we a one stop shop for all your recording needs @very reasonable, negotiable prices.

To be blunt, your particular niche can't be "we do everything you need." That's the oppostie of a niche. This type of thing makes me think you're completely bullpoopting me, even if it happens that you aren't.

Also, those missing periods are not typos, that's the original text of the ad in full, save the redaction. I don't normally trip up over punctuation, but the lack of periods gave me a lot more difficulty to read this ad than I might've expected.

[Moseph]

Here's one that really caught my eye.

Title is "dj/musician seeks manager"

music is like a puzzle you gotta have a talent to put notes or songs together......hypothetically say i had a gig djing on new years....... break by three days grace........poker face by lady gaga.............favorite disease by rev theory would be on my play list.........i like a dark, classy, mature(well somewhat mature it is a party...lol)crowd ............im very passionate about music always have been.........my chinese zodiac is the dragon.........that means im honest and brave i would expect you to be........i have nothing to lose only focused on music...........i dont wanna grow old being like that guy in that movie clerks working in the mall or deliverying pizza all my life..............

I think this is a classic example of a bad ad. Not only is punctuation distracting, but it's hard to follow the train of thought in the first place. There's not a much mention of ideal qualities in a potential manager beyond "honest" (one would hope so) and "brave" (whatever that means). Absolutely zero discussion of business aspects. Instead, there is rambling about what an ideal gig would be, the Chinese zodiac, and sharing fear of a career in pizza delivery.

This is one of those ads where if I was a manager seeking clients and I saw it, I'd have no idea what was going on and move along down the chain.

Short version of this lesson: make sure if somebody reads your ad, the first reaction isn't "what the ****?"

[SomiAgow73]

you have to laugh. everything deserves to be laughed at, and if you cant laugh at yourself you cant laugh at anything.

also, my current theme song is El Rey de los Chingones by Chingon, so, yeah.