Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread
Old 05-31-2006, 09:52 PM   #1
ikikdababy
moderating your socks off
Supermod
 
ikikdababy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 13,680
Holocaust denial?

Anyone have any links to legit Holocaust deniers? I'm not really looking for encyclopedia articles so much as people that really believe it and have compiled evidence to 'prove' it.

Also, any Holocaust deniers in the house?
ikikdababy is offline  
Old 05-31-2006, 10:09 PM   #2
Danish
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 9,889
There is a French guy named Faurisson that you might want to look up.
Danish is offline  
Old 05-31-2006, 10:30 PM   #3
BludgeonySteve
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 19,206
So how can anyone actually deny it? Wasn't the pope recently in a death camp in poland with a bunch of people to pray or some other catholic activity? What are they supposed to say? "yeah, a million jews were here and there are gas chambers but nobody really got killed".
BludgeonySteve is offline  
Old 05-31-2006, 10:32 PM   #4
Hababi
Serenity Now
 
Hababi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 16,052
Quote:
Anyone have any links to legit Holocaust deniers?
As opposed to...non legit Holocaust deniers???

Number one in the world today: Mahmoud Ahmedinejad.

There's also that British "historian", whose name slips my mind (no big loss), who was put on trial in Austria...

Why is it that you're looking for them? Are you doing a research paper on educating douche bags?
Hababi is offline  
Old 05-31-2006, 11:20 PM   #5
Danish
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 9,889
Perhaps this website will help you:

http://www.nationalvanguard.org/
Danish is offline  
Old 06-01-2006, 02:52 AM   #6
Dannyboy15
Registered User
 
Dannyboy15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Lawndale, California
Posts: 3,411
http://www.stormfront.org/forum/
Dannyboy15 is offline  
Old 06-01-2006, 04:09 AM   #7
Merkaba
Play-Dough and Rug Hair!
 
Merkaba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: With Digger the Dermatophyte
Posts: 3,941
what holocaust?
Merkaba is offline  
Old 06-01-2006, 04:15 AM   #8
PerpetualBurn
Like a greasy chip butty
 
PerpetualBurn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Highway 61 (again)
Posts: 9,427
Quote:
Also, any Holocaust deniers in the house?
Yeah me. I also deny the moonlanding and believe that the planet is run by shape-shifting lizards which feed off the blood of unspoiled virgins. I probably won't respond though, because the freemasons are after me, and they move pretty quick because they're flat-earthers.
PerpetualBurn is offline  
Old 06-01-2006, 04:43 AM   #9
coheneran
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: In the company of the aggrieved
Posts: 8,805
I can see why people would deny the holocaust. It's hard for the mind (at least my mind) to get to grips with a concept that a whole nation of people suddenly started hating Jews like dogs hate cats. But I trust my grandmother more than I trust my belief in human love.
coheneran is offline  
Old 06-01-2006, 09:26 AM   #10
EinzingerIsGod
A hero kills people.
 
EinzingerIsGod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Beantown
Posts: 3,082
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannyboy15
This site disgusts me.
EinzingerIsGod is offline  
Old 06-01-2006, 10:19 AM   #11
ikikdababy
moderating your socks off
Supermod
 
ikikdababy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 13,680
Quote:
Originally Posted by Broadway Danny Rose

Why is it that you're looking for them? Are you doing a research paper on educating douche bags?
I've heard several times in the past that it's a real thing that real people actually believe so I got curious. It blew my mind at first...

There's some good information at [URL="http://www.nizkor.org"]www.nizkor.org[/url] which is actually an anti-holocaust denier site, but they have a lot of primary documents straight from the horse's mouth.

Some of their claims make a little sense due to the fact that they are rooted in logic, for example:

"Nazis did not use cremation ovens to dispose of extermination victims. The amount of energy required to fire the ovens far exceeded what the energy-strapped nation could spare in wartime. The cremation ovens that existed would have been too small for this purpose and the reason there were cremation ovens at all was they were put in to provide cremation services for the deaths from natural causes and disease epidemics that could reasonably be expected in a high-density work camp. "

But most of them are the clear result of explaining away the evidence that it happened.

All the pictures and stories of survivors? Propaganda.

All the gas chambers? Not instruments of death. They were for delousing... with zyklon-B.

Why don't any significant historians corroborate Holocaust denial? Fear of course.



Reading some of this stuff is tough. It really does incite a frustration to the point of violence. I want to grab these people and just shake them until they quit it.
ikikdababy is offline  
Old 06-01-2006, 10:36 AM   #12
coheneran
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: In the company of the aggrieved
Posts: 8,805
Quote:
Originally Posted by ikikdababy
I've heard several times in the past that it's a real thing that real people actually believe so I got curious. It blew my mind at first...

There's some good information at [URL="http://www.nizkor.org"]www.nizkor.org[/url] which is actually an anti-holocaust denier site, but they have a lot of primary d0cuments straight from the horse's mouth.

Some of their claims make a little sense due to the fact that they are rooted in logic, for example:

"Nazis did not use cremation ovens to dispose of extermination victims. The amount of energy required to fire the ovens far exceeded what the energy-strapped nation could spare in wartime. The cremation ovens that existed would have been too small for this purpose and the reason there were cremation ovens at all was they were put in to provide cremation services for the deaths from natural causes and disease epidemics that could reasonably be expected in a high-density work camp. "

But most of them are the clear result of explaining away the evidence that it happened.

All the pictures and stories of survivors? Propaganda.

All the gas chambers? Not instruments of death. They were for delousing... with zyklon-B.

Why don't any significant historians corroborate Holocaust denial? Fear of course.



Reading some of this stuff is tough. It really does incite a frustration to the point of violence. I want to grab these people and just shake them until they quit it.
I know what you mean. That's how I was feeling in the Palestine&Israel thread with DBR. It's how I feel with most eloquent fascists/racists/fundamentalists etc..

As for this "evidence", well, they can twist the facts around all they want, but personal accounts mean more than what the can says Zyklon B should be used for.
coheneran is offline  
Old 06-01-2006, 12:01 PM   #13
PepsiMetal
Ennio Morricone Fan
 
PepsiMetal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 4,783
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannyboy15
Haha, people there said Bosnians aren't white cause they are mostly muslims, and not christians. What a pile of horsecrap. Lots of ignorant people there.
PepsiMetal is offline  
Old 06-01-2006, 02:11 PM   #14
thunderzstruck
Here's to Life!
 
thunderzstruck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 6,319
haha read this quote from that forum (kinda irrelevant but still funny)

Quote:
I think that, on the whole, feminism [a Jewish-led movement] has been very bad for White Nationalists. For one thing, Wendy Works-a-Lot is working and therefore not staying at home to raise White kids. That's not good.
thunderzstruck is offline  
Old 06-01-2006, 02:29 PM   #15
dislocated214
The Boogeyman
 
dislocated214's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Washington DC
Posts: 1,657
Mahmoud Ahmedinijad on the Holocaust in an interview with German media.

Mahmoud Ahmedinijad on the Holocaust in an interview with German media.

[URL="http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,418660,00.html"]http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,418660,00.html[/url]

Quote:
Ahmadinejad: We don't want to confirm or deny the Holocaust. We oppose every type of crime against any people. But we want to know whether this crime actually took place or not. If it did, then those who bear the responsibility for it have to be punished, and not the Palestinians. Why isn't research into a deed that occurred 60 years ago permitted? After all, other historical occurrences, some of which lie several thousand years in the past, are open to research, and even the governments support this.

SPIEGEL: Mr. President, with all due respect, the Holocaust occurred, there were concentration camps, there are dossiers on the extermination of the Jews, there has been a great deal of research, and there is neither the slightest doubt about the Holocaust nor about the fact - we greatly regret this - that the Germans are responsible for it. If we may now add one remark: the fate of the Palestinians is an entirely different issue, and this brings us into the present.

Ahmadinejad: No, no, the roots of the Palestinian conflict must be sought in history. The Holocaust and Palestine are directly connected with one another. And if the Holocaust actually occurred, then you should permit impartial groups from the whole world to research this. Why do you restrict the research to a certain group? Of course, I don't mean you, but rather the European governments.

SPIEGEL: Well, we are conducting this historical debate with you for a very timely purpose. Are you questioning Israel's right to exist?

Ahmadinejad: Look here, my views are quite clear. We are saying that if the Holocaust occurred, then Europe must draw the consequences and that it is not Palestine that should pay the price for it. If it did not occur, then the Jews have to go back to where they came from. I believe that the German people today are also prisoners of the Holocaust. Sixty million people died in the Second World War. World War II was a gigantic crime. We condemn it all. We are against bloodshed, regardless of whether a crime was committed against a Muslim or against a Christian or a Jew. But the question is: Why among these 60 million victims are only the Jews the center of attention?

SPIEGEL: That's just not the case. All peoples mourn the victims claimed by the Second World War, Germans and Russians and Poles and others as well. Yet, we as Germans cannot absolve ourselves of a special guilt, namely for the systematic murder of the Jews. But perhaps we should now move on to the next subject.

Ahmadinejad: No, I have a question for you. What kind of a role did today's youth play in World War II?

SPIEGEL: None.

Ahmadinejad: Why should they have feelings of guilt toward Zionists? Why should the costs of the Zionists be paid out of their pockets? If people committed crimes in the past, then they would have to have been tried 60 years ago. End of story! Why must the German people be humiliated today because a group of people committed crimes in the name of the Germans during the course of history?

SPIEGEL: The German people today can't do anything about it. But there is a sort of collective shame for those deeds done in the German name by our fathers or grandfathers.

Ahmadinejad: How can a person who wasn't even alive at the time be held legally responsible?

SPIEGEL: Not legally but morally.

Ahmadinejad: Why is such a burden heaped on the German people? The German people of today bear no guilt. Why are the German people not permitted the right to defend themselves? Why are the crimes of one group emphasized so greatly, instead of highlighting the great German cultural heritage? Why should the Germans not have the right to express their opinion freely?

SPIEGEL: Mr. President, we are well aware that German history is not made up of only the 12 years of the Third Reich. Nevertheless, we have to accept that horrible crimes have been committed in the German name. We also own up to this, and it is a great achievement of the Germans in post-war history that they have grappled critically with their past.

Ahmadinejad: Are you also prepared to tell that to the German people?

SPIEGEL: Oh yes, we do that.

Ahmadinejad: Then would you also permit an impartial group to ask the German people whether it shares your opinion? No people accepts its own humiliation.

SPIEGEL: All questions are allowed in our country. But of course there are right-wing radicals in Germany who are not only anti-Semitic, but xenophobic as well, and we do indeed consider them a threat.

Ahmadinejad: Let me ask you one thing: How much longer can this go on? How much longer do you think the German people have to accept being taken hostage by the Zionists? When will that end - in 20, 50, 1,000 years?

SPIEGEL: We can only speak for ourselves. DER SPIEGEL is nobody's hostage; SPIEGEL does not deal only with Germany's past and the Germans' crimes. We're not Israel's uncritical ally in the Palestian conflict. But we want to make one thing very clear: We are critical, we are independent, but we won't simply stand by without protest when the existential right of the state of Israel, where many Holocaust survivors live, is being questioned.

Ahmadinejad: Precisely that is our point. Why should you feel obliged to the Zionists? If there really had been a Holocaust, Israel ought to be located in Europe, not in Palestine.

SPIEGEL: Do you want to resettle a whole people 60 years after the end of the war?

Ahmadinejad: Five million Palestinians have not had a home for 60 years. It is amazing really: You have been paying reparations for the Holocaust for 60 years and will have to keep paying up for another 100 years. Why then is the fate of the Palestinians no issue here?

SPIEGEL: The Europeans support the Palestinians in many ways. After all, we also have an historic responsibility to help bring peace to this region finally. But don't you share that responsibility?

Ahmadinejad: Yes, but aggression, occupation and a repetition of the Holocaust won't bring peace. What we want is a sustainable peace. This means that we have to tackle the root of the problem. I am pleased to note that you are honest people and admit that you are obliged to support the Zionists.

SPIEGEL: That's not what we said, Mr. President.

Ahmadinejad: You said Israelis.
dislocated214 is offline  
Old 06-01-2006, 03:37 PM   #16
PepsiMetal
Ennio Morricone Fan
 
PepsiMetal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 4,783
He's right about Israel/Palestine.
PepsiMetal is offline  
Old 06-01-2006, 03:39 PM   #17
-1up!-
Hypermodern
 
-1up!-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Quebec, Canada
Posts: 2,070
Ugh. Now he's being blindly fundamentalist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danish
Perhaps this website will help you:

http://www.nationalvanguard.org/
Hilarious! I listened to the trailer of that documentary "There Are Two Sides" and I was

Last edited by -1up!-; 06-01-2006 at 03:42 PM.
-1up!- is offline  
Old 06-01-2006, 04:51 PM   #18
coheneran
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: In the company of the aggrieved
Posts: 8,805
Quote:
Originally Posted by dislocated214
Mahmoud Ahmedinijad on the Holocaust in an interview with German media.

[URL="http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,418660,00.html"]http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,418660,00.html[/url]
Ahmadinejad obviously wasn't paying attention. Spiegel said they recognize Israel's right to exist, not that they support Israel. Zionism and nationalism are not the same. Almost, but not quite. But both are evil.
coheneran is offline  
Old 06-01-2006, 05:14 PM   #19
dislocated214
The Boogeyman
 
dislocated214's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Washington DC
Posts: 1,657
Either that or he (or the magazine person) was mistranslated.
dislocated214 is offline  
Old 06-01-2006, 05:22 PM   #20
coheneran
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: In the company of the aggrieved
Posts: 8,805
No way would someone dare mistranslate a German. They're psychopaths man!
coheneran is offline  
Old 06-01-2006, 05:35 PM   #21
Der ‹bermensch
Best taken in moderation
 
Der ‹bermensch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: DC, via Maine
Posts: 11,762
Quote:
that a whole nation of people suddenly started hating Jews like dogs hate cats.
Except that never happened... Hating the Jews was simply a European tradition/pastime dating back to the middle ages at the least, if not into Antiquity...
Der ‹bermensch is offline  
Old 06-01-2006, 05:39 PM   #22
coheneran
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: In the company of the aggrieved
Posts: 8,805
Quote:
Originally Posted by Das ‹bermensch
Except that never happened... Hating the Jews was simply a European tradition/pastime dating back to the middle ages at the least, if not into Antiquity...
Yes, but not on such a scale. Sure, over a drink, you'd probably often hear "Those damn Jews, stealing our money" but at the end of the day, those people would go to the Jewish banker and ask him for advice, or the Jewish jeweller (those words must have something in common, it intrigues me) for a wedding ring. But under Nazism, even speaking to a Jew was uncommon unless it was followed by a spit or a curse or was insulting through and through.
coheneran is offline  
Old 06-01-2006, 07:01 PM   #23
Der ‹bermensch
Best taken in moderation
 
Der ‹bermensch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: DC, via Maine
Posts: 11,762
Well, they didn't embrace them as brothers when things were going well though... The only time they were pals was when they needed a loan... and then they'd have a purge to avoid having to pay it back...

Quote:
Yes, but not on such a scale. Sure, over a drink, you'd probably often hear "Those damn Jews, stealing our money" but at the end of the day, those people would go to the Jewish banker and ask him for advice, or the Jewish jeweller (those words must have something in common, it intrigues me) for a wedding ring. But under Nazism, even speaking to a Jew was uncommon unless it was followed by a spit or a curse or was insulting through and through.
True, there was never a massacre on the scale of the holocaust, but that was partly due to limits of technology. More then a few crusader troupes would stop and massacre whole towns of Jews on their way to save the holy land...
And don't forget Spain, who kicked out every single Jew in the country, took their wealth, and killed all the ones who didn't want to go
Der ‹bermensch is offline  
Old 06-01-2006, 07:09 PM   #24
coheneran
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: In the company of the aggrieved
Posts: 8,805
I stand corrected.

*Bows*
coheneran is offline  
Old 06-01-2006, 07:14 PM   #25
Cain
xenomorph may be involved
 
Cain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 9,053
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spat Out Plath
Try [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Irving#External_links]here[/url], although the author has taken much of this back now.
Has he really? I thought he was still very hardline.

The only reason Holocaust denial gains any acceptance as an actual "point of view" is because it cloaks anti-Semitism in a historical revisionist cloak of respectability. Due to the rise to prominence of revisionism and relativism in prompting an open exchange of ideas and interpretations of history, it has become much more difficult for people to criticize points of view about historical subjects on the grounds that they are absurd. Thus, Holocaust denial gains from nearly every kind of treatment one can give it. Ignore it and refuse to give it any sort of credence as an actual point of view, they will say you simply refuse to admit the truth. Debate it on its own "merits," you imply that the point of view actually has merit, which it doesn't. Treat it as a legitimate point of view, and well....

The worst part is that people who fall within "educated" boundaries fall for its cloak of respectability. Students doing research on the Holocaust for school projects, for instance, come across denier websites and assume it's truth, or another point of view. Considering that the mass media surrounding Nazism has been rather unnuanced in its depiction of Nazis (i.e. Auschwitz concentration camp guards were representative of all Nazis), which leads to equally untrue stereotypes and certainly no real understanding of Nazism beyond "it's evil," even serious students who begin to uncover discrepencies with common notions of Nazism can therefore be hoodwinked by Holocaust denial into thinking that it's all "history written by the victors."

Last edited by Cain; 06-01-2006 at 07:22 PM.
Cain is offline  
Old 06-02-2006, 04:22 AM   #26
SubtleDagger
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
I suggest you go out and rent "Mr. Death: The Rise And Fall Of Fred A. Leuchter".
 
Old 06-02-2006, 12:44 PM   #27
ikikdababy
moderating your socks off
Supermod
 
ikikdababy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 13,680
thanks guys...
ikikdababy is offline  
 


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:52 AM.