[QUOTE=HaVIC5]A vamp is essentially a repeated phrase, chord, or very short chord progression that is used to introduce a song, or to solo over.[/QUOTE]

Oh cool...thanks!

Like in Meeting of Spirits or Birds of Fire...mmm.

:naughty:

I was just wondering if anyone could give me some ideas to improve my jazz improvization. i've improved a lot since i first started, but i'd like some tips maybe on how to further improve my skills. thanks.

1) Learn your modes.
2) Pratice your modes.
3) Learn chord shapes, construction, etc.
4) Solo using chord tones.
5) Eventually learn other tricks, like flat picking techniques, etc.
6) Pratice, pratice, pratice.

Theres so many different articles on modes why don't you point out a good one?
Before I got to them with my guitar teacher (he did chord construction and a few other things first) I had to stop taking lessons cause the money and I've read a few different articles which contradicted each other and am not sure exactly what to do with modes.

Pratice them. Learn the relations they all hold to each other. (i.e., if you're playing in C dorian, you can move one step up to D phrygian.) Eventually, learn the relationships between all the scales on the neck. You'll be able to solo anywhere.

(That's it in a very basic nutshell)

How am I supposed to learn that....no teacher and I've seen articles that contradict each other so I don't know whats right. Do you know a good site/lesson?

(Isn't there more to it than just memorizing it?)

[QUOTE=Prowler01]How am I supposed to learn that....no teacher and I've seen articles that contradict each other so I don't know whats right. Do you know a good site/lesson?

(Isn't there more to it than just memorizing it?)[/QUOTE]

There are multiple places to play any note on the guitar...Expand on that and you will realize you can easily connect all the modes of a scale throughout the fretboard. You are not limited to playing in the key of 1 sharp (G Major) to the 3rd position (G Major). Take it to the 7th position, while maintaining the key of 1 sharp, and you have your B phyrgian. Then go to the 5th position and you're at A mixolydian.

It's so much easier to show than explain...I hope that (kind of) helped.

EDIT AGAIN:

I understand the point of modes now...and I already know the notes all over the fretboard, I don't really use shapes to remember stuff (eggo)

[url]http://www.ibreathemusic.com/article/106/2[/url] explains it real good, I just saw the link under favorites and realized I never read it before

Anyone know anything about substituting more complex chords in for simpler ones and how to know what extensions will sound good? I know how to figure out what will be in key but is there anything else that I can learn about that without just expirimenting?

[QUOTE=Prowler01]EDIT AGAIN:

I understand the point of modes now...and I already know the notes all over the fretboard, I don't really use shapes to remember stuff (eggo)

[url]http://www.ibreathemusic.com/article/106/2[/url] explains it real good, I just saw the link under favorites and realized I never read it before[/QUOTE]

on the site what do the M's and P's mean

[QUOTE=Prowler01]EDIT AGAIN:

I understand the point of modes now...and I already know the notes all over the fretboard, I don't really use shapes to remember stuff (eggo)

[url]http://www.ibreathemusic.com/article/106/2[/url] explains it real good, I just saw the link under favorites and realized I never read it before[/QUOTE]

on the site what do the M's and P's mean

They're about intervals.

P = Perfect
M = Major

In the Ionian Mode (Major Scale), the 1st, 4th and 5th are Perfect intervals; the 2nd, 3rd, 6th and 7th are Major intervals. So it's like this:

Perfect 1
Major 2
Major 3
Perfect 4
Perfect 5
Major 6
Major 7

Which is why the site shows:

P1, M2, M3, P4, P5, M6, M7

From there, you can flatten and sharpen different intervals to produce different scales. These new intervals are called Minor, Diminished and Augmented intervals. The site shows these as b, bb, and #, although they're sometimes written as m, o and +.

That part is quite confusing, but once you know what the M's and P's are about, you should be able to figure it out from the site.

hmm
 

[QUOTE=spastic]Wow, man. I put "Theory Guru" as a joke, only because I know more theory than a lot of people here, and try to help anyone that asks me. I don't believe I know everything about theory. But I also didn't post everything I know in this thread.

And I'm glad you enjoyed my songs :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

- can i first say i have only just started learning jazz theory, i have learnt the scales ect, but not touched on the really difficult stuff. i can play joe satrinai stuff - surfing with the alien ect, so i think i am an ok guitairst for 16, because a lot of my friends think they have learnt songs when they have half learnt them :rolleyes: , i learn them fully, as i did with the satriani stuff. i love playing guitar and although i have covered some of the things in your article i havent covered them all. I think it was helpful and as long as it helps some one i think you have achieved your goal. however this twat who wrote too you is too obnoxious, and if he is such a great guiatist, or musican, would not bother with such petty coments. not every 1 likes the same type of music so dont take it personal about your songs. i'm not a great jazz fan, i like a trange of music from coldplay to metallica, to machine head, to ocationaly some jazz and songs like my sharona by the knack is classic rock. i learn jazz to broaden my playiny. And i think someone who has such petty remarks is just a twat really :D

i think your aticle was good and that guy should get his head out of his arse and smell the roses, sorry if not every 1 is as good as you, but am sure there is someone out there, and i hopfully will be a lot better than you when i get older so there :p

to original article writer - nice article :D

have fun playing guitar, and although i havnt listened too your songs yet i will, i will send you the cover of joe satriani i made (to a bakcing track from guitar port - with some soloing for like the last minute of the songs :D if you e-mail me. nice article and keep writing, cos this guy is a snob :wave:

Ive hear ray brown (an amazing bassist) say that its sometimes bad to get stuck in patterns on a fretboard because somtimes you can find all of you lines repetitive and sound like your other songs. He said it is better to work on paper before you play, and then work it out. And to not concentrate on the patterns but the notes. What do you guys think of this?

and also is there anyone who would mind talking to me privitaly and giving me theroy lessons (i read sheet music, but i know little about chords and modes) if so my email is [email]Dylanhouse420@hotmail.com[/email] or aim at Rastahstojah

message

I agree with trying to avoid playing patterns, but I don't like writing music without my instrument in hand (unless it is a composition or something similar).

I know one guitarist (and it is killing me that I don't remember his name...Ah dammit, he even taught a class at Berklee) that would randomly retune his guitar so the patterns he was used to didn't work anymore, and he only played the notes that sounded good to his ears, not his fingers, so to speak.

Is it absolutely necessary to learn modes if you want to be good at improvisation? I have knowledge of them, and know the formulas, names, and patterns for each of the modes, but never really practice them or use them. When playing over chords, I think more of just what sounds good, and altering the major scale to fit the chord tones. Should I keep going on with that, or should I start practicing the modes?

wow, cool thread. I'm going to school for this stuff right now so its interesting to see everyone so interested in the stuff that gives me so much headache. This stuff is definitly worth it.

wow laying it all out
 

hey dude after the scales you might want to add chord progressions
like for instance an easy 4 chord circle progression is vi-ii-V-I
maybe even add some fun stuff like soloing techniques

depends
 

consequently jazz is an interpretation and you can really play anything. however to become a successfull jazz soloist LEARN EVERYTHING! modes scales flowing chords and notes and above all stay in school.

could someone (maybe that pretentious guy near the start of the thread since he knows so much and is so helpful) explain tritone substitution and how it is used?
that would be great, thanks

i personally think, if you dontget this stuff, like i didnt, basically, keep improvise jam with someone who does, like a synth player, who can instruct with the chords, you should really know most of the chords first, and know a few scales, the pentonic and blues scale work fine for me, and then keep playing, ask them what progression it is, ask them what scale to use with the chords, ask them everything you can before you play the song, and although that is mostly just a crowd pleaser to start with, it really help you get a boost on understanding theory.

Any drum player in this jazz theory thing?
 

Hi guys, I consider myself a rookie in this jazz world

is there any drum player who can write some jazz theory for drums and percusion?

thnx

[QUOTE=oxo_cubes]could someone (maybe that pretentious guy near the start of the thread since he knows so much and is so helpful) explain tritone substitution and how it is used?
that would be great, thanks[/QUOTE]


Tritone substitution is usually used when reharmonizing a song or part of a song.

As you know, a dominant 7th chord is made up of the root (1), a major 3rd (3), a fifth (5), and a minor 7th (b7). The third and seventh are what makes this chord. Even if you leave out the root and fifth, it still sounds like a dominant chord, incomplete though the chord may be.

As you may have noticed, the 3 and b7 are a tritone apart. You should also note that the 3 and b7 of a dominant chord are the [i]same notes[/i] as another dominant chord, specifically, the dominant chord a tritone away.

For instance, the G7 chord tones are G(1), B(3), D(5), and F(b7). A tritone away is Db7, which contains Db(1), F(3), Ab(5), and B(b7). Notice that the B and F are the 3rd and 7th of both chords, although inverted.

Because the two most important notes, the 3rd and 7th, are the same in both chords, the two chords can be substituted for one another.


[b]If you didn't feel like reading all that, here is the basics of tritone substitution. Any dominant chord can be substituted for another dominant chord a tritone apart from the original chord.[/b]


Now, technically tritone subsitution can be used on any dominant chord. But of course, it does not always sound good. It sounds best if you a) [b]create a chromatic bass line[/b], or b) [b]make the melody more interesting[/b].

Tritone subsitution is often used in II-V-I's because it lends itself prefectly to creating a chromatic bass line. For example, take the II-V-I (in C, to keep it simple) Dmin7-G7-Cmaj7. using tritone substiution, you can replace the G7 with Db7. Now notice the basslines of all these notes: D-Db-C. A bit more modern sound.

Now on to making the melody more interesting. Take the chord progression Cmin7-F7-Bb7. Let's say that over the F7, you have the melody note G. This is the 9th of the F7 chord, a good note. If you want to make it more interesting, you could use tritone substitution and play B7. Now the melody note (G) is the #5 of the chord. Not only would you create a chromatic bass line, but you make the melody note more interesting.

(Note: some people might like the G to be the 9th, rather than the sharp 5th, which is fine. I'm just giving you an example.)


So to recap that long description: [b]Tritone subsitution is the substitution of a dominant chord with another dominant chord a tritone apart. To be used effectively, it should either create a chromatic bass line, or make the melody note more interesting.[/b]

Is tritone substitution only used for dominant chords or is it just more common?

Only dominant.

[QUOTE=spastic]Only dominant.[/QUOTE]


Ahh ok, thanks. :)

thanks alot for that-spastic-you genius

hahahaha what the crap! i fell for the this will help you crap... :(

you for got to mention what all the modes sound like (unless i missed it)
Although any scale can be made to sound like pretty much anything the following is true : major pentatonic can be made to sound chinese and celtic
the phyrigian locrian hungarian and (as someone said) harmonic minor scales all sound eastern
the minor pentatonic blues and bebop all sound basically wastern (jazzy blues classic rock) and although the ionian and aeolian scales are named after greek islands... they don't sound particularly greek because major and minor scales play a part everywhere

forgot.. not for got