Sputnik Music Forums - Merkabas Voice-Help Hotline

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[QUOTE=mygler]Anyone wanna say something about my earlier post ? please :upset:
I need some advice, come on guys.. :)[/QUOTE]

you sound really off when your singing under the bridge. you need to train your ear.

[QUOTE=dreddy2]so far all i've seen on the forums are how to screem like emo or death metal bands, can any tell post on how to some classic screems?

like a Roger Daltery sceem in "Love Reign O'er me" or "Won't Get Fooled Again"
or an Ian Gillan screem, Cris Cornell, Robert Plant????[/QUOTE]

We'll dont know about the others but Cornell is one of my idols...I've got him pretty much down pat. He uses falsetto many times. But true voice in others. Plant from what i remember is about the same. These guys have pretty good natural voices, but Its still all the same as far as screaminess goes... some screams are head, true voice and some are falsetto but thats pretty much the only difference. Othewise, if there's rasp, its pretty much coming from extra push and scraping the air off the back of the throat. You just cant squeeze the larynx up in all of your emotional rampage. Check out my voicehelp hotline.

I have been singing for a year and a few weeks ago

i found it easy to hold and hit notes and stuff but

after i stoped it felt like something was stuck in my throat

and i was singing for 3 or 4 hours

i didnt warm up or down or drink any water

is this normal or did i mess something up ???

I wouldnt worry about it if its not painful...however noone can tell from an internet post. If you feel uncomfortable just keep an eye...or nerve, on it.

is it also normal for it to be easy to hit high notes? its like i dont even have to try anymore.
i was a little scared when it started to be that easy.. like i ****ed my voice up
or something.. i dont want to lose my voice or anything.. so im a little freaked out
by this... and also there is a little rasp when i sing and talk i can go from E2
to around G4 or F4 and its really easy.. and btw im 16 if that helps p.s. sorry if your brain hurts from reading this lol

I take it youre not using C4 as your middle C?

nope i dont really understand what middle C is i just
start singing notes and stuff

Hey Merk,
I agree with everything you said about Mudvayne. Chad is one of the most talented vocalists out there, especially for such a popular metal band. I've been noticing for awhile that he uses alot of raspy head voice, and switches it to a falsetto scream at times. Or singing clean and use rasp here and there, still in head voice. It's really quite interesting. At first, when I started screaming (using your advice), I had an extremely hard time transforming it into a raspy singing voice like he does. Now (like a month later or so), screaming is very easy.. I've found my "sweet spot" so I don't have to push too hard, like you said, because at first I was just pushing hard to get it out. I can do it more efficiently now. Anyway, today on the drive to work while practicing, I kind of did a guttoral scream by accident. Then I remembered Kristina's advice, about making it like a gargle, and I realized that's totally how it's done. Before I didn't understand that advice, I couldn't do it at all, but now I think I got it. My throat position feels the same as a normal scream, and it takes a decent amount of diaphragm pressure, but the rasp seems to come from, uhh, wherever the gargling sound comes from, instead of the back of the throat. You know what I mean? I don't know where exactly I would say gargling comes from.. but it feels like it's above the throat. Anyway.. I practiced it alot, and needless to say, it didn't hurt. So I'll be doing these with my regular practice routine from now on. Here's my soundclick page where you can listen to it.[url]http://www.soundclick.com/pendingdemise[/url]
Be easy on me, it's my first day with the guttoral stuff. ;) The falsetto scream is a newer one too, the one named "scream 2" is the one you heard before, kind of a raspy head voice going into a falsetto scream.

[QUOTE=Krao]Ok, got some recording done today.

[url]http://www.forsmark.uu.se/~fs03olsa/sound/[/url]

There are 3 samples.
Scream_low.mp3 is somewhere in the middle of my range
Scream_high.mp3 is a falsetto
Scream_dark.mp3 is kinda as low as i can go

I recorded the stuff the 3rd time I've praticed screaming, so don't expect much of it guys. Anyways, Merkaba, I don't think it sound any good or cool yet, but I'm on the right track beeing able to do that without pain? I managed to get through this training session without any soar throat afterwards, as I said in my earlier post (maybe you missed it?), so I guess that's good.

If you ask me the falsetto thing sounds like crap. How do you make your falsetto sound so cool? I've been exprementing some with more or less cord activation, but the falsetto thing is just really hard. I've noticed I tend to be less relaxed in my throat when doing it aswell. On the dark sample i try to use a very small amount of cord activation, but what I'm really after is to sound like the opeth singer, any pointers there?[/QUOTE]

Well, you had the voices right. All 3 clips were in either chest, head, or falsetto voice, but it was a singing voice. That's great you understand rasp though, otherwise it'd be very hard for us to help you out... lol.
But yeah, you got the rasp-singing down, like almost any rock or metal vocalist.. think Metallica or something, Hetfield is the best example of a singer who uses rasp almost all the time.
But to be honest, none of those were screams. Since we're all talking about screaming here, I assume that's what you're going for. I don't know about head voice screams, I really wouldn't say there's such a thing, at least not a useable one. If you use your head voice and add rasp, that's fine, but if you push hard and "over rasp", well that kind of hurts, haha. Not a healthy thing to do. Doesn't sound too great either. I think the easiest scream to start with is a falsetto scream, some people find lower screams easier though, so I dunno. I would start with a falsetto scream. The falsetto clip you was pretty much what I sounded like before I learned to loosen my throat and actually scream. It just takes practice. What I did the very first day I learned to scream was, 1. warm up my singing and falsetto voice, then concentrentating on falsetto for awhile because I knew that was the only way to properly do a mid to high pitched scream. 2. start singing falsetto notes, not too high and not too low. I think the common problem is people push hard to go higher, thinking they'll scream. Just try a mid-range falsetto note, and push harder. Since you already seem to understand rasp, just keep attempting to add rasp and stay relaxed, while pushing more air out. Make your throat feel like you're yawning, so it's definitely open.

That's about as much as I could tell you, if you have a question about any of it, Merk could help you more.

As far as Opeth style guttoral screams go, I would attempt to learn falsetto screams first. Guttoral screams are done the same way, except it's not falsetto (I don't think) but it's not really head voice either.. it's just an opeth, I mean, OPEN throat, haha. :p But for me, the rasp comes a different way; through the same feeling as gargling water. This is what I heard from a very experienced vocalist. I tried guttoral screaming previously, trying to get rasp from the back of my throat while also trying to make it low, but it ended up sounding mediocre at best and it hurt. Felt like my cords were flapping the first few times I tried, so I stopped. Then when I figured it out with the open throat and gargling-rasp (lol) way, it sounded totally right to me.. just like Opeth or Novembre... but maybe not as low. :p

Thanks for some response! :thumb:

Seems alot of people say the falsetto scream is easiest, I'll go for that for a starters. I've also read the gargle water thing somewhere on the forum before, I don't really get what feeling your after though.. but I guess it's just practice, fool around some with your voice and avoid getting hurt.

[QUOTE=Krao]Thanks for some response! :thumb:

Seems alot of people say the falsetto scream is easiest, I'll go for that for a starters. I've also read the gargle water thing somewhere on the forum before, I don't really get what feeling your after though.. but I guess it's just practice, fool around some with your voice and avoid getting hurt.[/QUOTE]
falsetto scream will probably be the easiest one to hit first, it was for me. my first screams were exactly how CDoasis described, hitting a falsetto note, then just pushing it. a kind of crappy, girly scream came out, but it was a scream nonetheless. after you get that first scream, you can start learning how to really control your throat and experiment with the techniques and find what works. as for the "gargling" thing, i never would have had any idea what people were talking about if i hadn't experienced it myself. now, after i've got a little bit more experience with screaming, lower screams are easier than falsetto screams for me. but i also don't have a particularly strong falsetto.

hey, i was just wondering if anyone ever heard of the pixies?

black francis does these raw screams in tame and gouge away
they sound really stressed and painful. does anyone know if its possible to safely recreate that sound?

would it be cool if i posted some clips?
and could you guys give me tips on what im doing wrong?

[QUOTE=zippcraz1one]would it be cool if i posted some clips?
and could you guys give me tips on what im doing wrong?[/QUOTE]
that's the best way to do it. go for it.

[QUOTE=CDoasis]Hey Merk,
I agree with everything you said about Mudvayne. Chad is one of the most talented vocalists out there, especially for such a popular metal band. I've been noticing for awhile that he uses alot of raspy head voice, and switches it to a falsetto scream at times. Or singing clean and use rasp here and there, still in head voice. It's really quite interesting. At first, when I started screaming (using your advice), I had an extremely hard time transforming it into a raspy singing voice like he does. Now (like a month later or so), screaming is very easy.. I've found my "sweet spot" so I don't have to push too hard, like you said, because at first I was just pushing hard to get it out. I can do it more efficiently now. Anyway, today on the drive to work while practicing, I kind of did a guttoral scream by accident. Then I remembered Kristina's advice, about making it like a gargle, and I realized that's totally how it's done. Before I didn't understand that advice, I couldn't do it at all, but now I think I got it. My throat position feels the same as a normal scream, and it takes a decent amount of diaphragm pressure, but the rasp seems to come from, uhh, wherever the gargling sound comes from, instead of the back of the throat. You know what I mean? I don't know where exactly I would say gargling comes from.. but it feels like it's above the throat. Anyway.. I practiced it alot, and needless to say, it didn't hurt. So I'll be doing these with my regular practice routine from now on. Here's my soundclick page where you can listen to it.[url]http://www.soundclick.com/pendingdemise[/url]
Be easy on me, it's my first day with the guttoral stuff. ;) The falsetto scream is a newer one too, the one named "scream 2" is the one you heard before, kind of a raspy head voice going into a falsetto scream.[/QUOTE]

Yea, I remember the gargle post. This area is what i've been referring to as the "back of the throat"...and I was trying to convey that with the grunt, but after Kristina posted that one about gargling i said yea, thats more accurate. I think it will help alot of people out. It still takes some isolation and if you let the larynx rise youre still looking at trouble, especially when you start running notes up or down and falsetto but the general throat position for rasping is the same as that for gargling i would have to agree.

Your gutteral, I think you could activate the cords more and give more push and support, drop your jaw if youre not, but dont squeeze it down. But it sounds pretty decent. I could picture you being able to get it more robust. Hell i dont even know really what qualifies as gutteral. Your falsetto was really good, though i think it was head, but it doesnt matter. hehe. :thumb:

[QUOTE=Krao]Ok, got some recording done today.

[url]http://www.forsmark.uu.se/~fs03olsa/sound/[/url]

There are 3 samples.
Scream_low.mp3 is somewhere in the middle of my range
Scream_high.mp3 is a falsetto
Scream_dark.mp3 is kinda as low as i can go

I recorded the stuff the 3rd time I've praticed screaming, so don't expect much of it guys. Anyways, Merkaba, I don't think it sound any good or cool yet, but I'm on the right track beeing able to do that without pain? I managed to get through this training session without any soar throat afterwards, as I said in my earlier post (maybe you missed it?), so I guess that's good.

If you ask me the falsetto thing sounds like crap. How do you make your falsetto sound so cool? I've been exprementing some with more or less cord activation, but the falsetto thing is just really hard. I've noticed I tend to be less relaxed in my throat when doing it aswell. On the dark sample i try to use a very small amount of cord activation, but what I'm really after is to sound like the opeth singer, any pointers there?[/QUOTE]

Sounds like you got the positioning correct, I'm sure thats why youre making it through without pain and probably without considerable fatigue. Now just practice and get stronger and gain experience and muscle memory so you can pretty much hit any note with any amount of rasp you want. hehe.

As far as the low stuff, just approach it like you would the other. I would suggest doing some slides down from a mid note to your lowest and feel how you have to relax your jaw to really get "on top" of your lowest notes. Just work on relaxing the throat still for a low one, and keep practicing youre sounding well.

All of my samples were done late at night with low volume...so if they sounded cool...thanks! :thumb:

When I do a gliss my larynx go up and down with the tone, is it supposed to do that? I've seen you talk about squeezing it up, is it supposed to keep still or just go up some but not too much?

Nevermind, I read the isolation thread again and that gave me the answer.

So many thoughts... :)
Do you use your tongue to control the air and thus helping creating your rasp?
I'm thinking like pushing the air back somewhat with the back of the tongue to hit the back of the throat?

ok i have some clips i didnt really warm up

so help me out here guys i think i may be doing something wrong

[url]http://www.soundclick.com/bands/5/zippcrazone1music.htm[/url]

theres one of me singing and some screams and stuff

thanks to anyone who helps :thumb:

[QUOTE=Krao]So many thoughts... :)
Do you use your tongue to control the air and thus helping creating your rasp?
I'm thinking like pushing the air back somewhat with the back of the tongue to hit the back of the throat?[/QUOTE]
You dont really want to get into the habit of using the tongue...as Kristina said...go gargle...then try to gargle the note to get the rasp. Its pretty much the same throat position. Relax everything else, make a note...then try to gargle the note as youre singing it.

[QUOTE=Merkaba-1]You dont really want to get into the habit of using the tongue...as Kristina said...go gargle...then try to gargle the note to get the rasp. Its pretty much the same throat position. Relax everything else, make a note...then try to gargle the note as youre singing it.[/QUOTE]
As I practiced today i tried to concentrate on the relaxing part, and it really helped alot.

I feelt I did some real nice progress. The tongue thing dissapeared kinda narutal when my throat was more open. Thanks alot for all the tips and guiding! I'll stay tuned and post more questions as I keep going.

Nothing makes you feel as good as when you actually learn something your going for! (****, no kissy smiley.. lol) :thumb:

Hey, I posted on one of you other threads, but i think this is the place to ask. Im singing in a punk band, melodic style. Like pennywise, millencolin, lagwagon, deviates, and bands of this sort. Do you have any advice at all?

[QUOTE=himynameistweek]falsetto scream will probably be the easiest one to hit first, it was for me. my first screams were exactly how CDoasis described, hitting a falsetto note, then just pushing it. a kind of crappy, girly scream came out, but it was a scream nonetheless. after you get that first scream, you can start learning how to really control your throat and experiment with the techniques and find what works. as for the "gargling" thing, i never would have had any idea what people were talking about if i hadn't experienced it myself. now, after i've got a little bit more experience with screaming, lower screams are easier than falsetto screams for me. but i also don't have a particularly strong falsetto.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I think falsetto screams are the easiest to get the hang of. I learned to sing with rasp first though, so maybe that should come first. My first screams sounded just like how you described them. A really weak girly scream with barely enough rasp. Haha. :thumb:

[QUOTE=Merkaba-1]Your gutteral, I think you could activate the cords more and give more push and support, drop your jaw if youre not, but dont squeeze it down. But it sounds pretty decent. I could picture you being able to get it more robust. Hell i dont even know really what qualifies as gutteral. Your falsetto was really good, though i think it was head, but it doesnt matter. hehe. :thumb:[/QUOTE]

When you say I should activate the cords more, does mean I should have more of a "note" behind it? Because I notice that if I sing a note almost as low as I can, then use the throat position and add rasp, that it sounds better. I used to do the same thing with falsetto screams. I would sing a falsetto note first then "add" the rasp and create a scream. I still do that toward the end of warmups actually. But after awhile it was just muscle memory, and I could scream on demand. :)

Also, you said my falsetto was really good. Which one? And how is it head? The one called "scream 2" is a head voice at the beginning. The other falsetto scream on there is probably as best as I can scream. Although I could've held it out a little more.

[QUOTE=MGreeny]Hey, I posted on one of you other threads, but i think this is the place to ask. Im singing in a punk band, melodic style. Like pennywise, millencolin, lagwagon, deviates, and bands of this sort. Do you have any advice at all?[/QUOTE]

I won't let you forget about me...

[QUOTE=MGreeny]I won't let you forget about me...[/QUOTE]

Shout. Punk bands don't sing nor scream in general...

melodic punk, not hardcore. pennywise, millencolin, deviates, lagwagon, strung out, and a lot more actually "sing"

Oh my bad, MELODIC punk... :rolleyes:

Umm, yeah.. sing with rasp. Just like regular singing, but using rasp. If you need help on learning how to do that, browse the other pages to this thread... lots of info on it.

thanks MERKABA...pffft...

[QUOTE=MGreeny]thanks MERKABA...pffft...[/QUOTE]

Excuse me? I gave you the advice you needed. There's nothing more you really need to know other than just knowing HOW to sing clean, and HOW to sing with rasp. It's all the same. Warm up, practice scales, learn to sing with rasp if you don't know how, learn to pronounce your words when you sing so it's understandable, and learn to sing from your diaphragm and have proper breathing.
That wasn't in any particular order. But there really isn't any specific advice I could give you, just read over this and Merk's other threads with advice on singing and rasp.

yea, what he said, McGreeney ^