The way I've observed and heard about (my mum is a domestic violence counsellor) when a child gets properly abused they tend to grow up into what happened to them. If a child gets disciplined, they will grow up and discipline. Think about the ones that weren't disciplined. They got away with everything they did, and every kid lashes out/looses their temper at some point. They'll just keep getting away with it and think it's fine. They're the ones that grow up to be violent, not the ones that were hit as a kid anyway. I'm not talking about lashings with a whip, just smack on the hand or the butt. That's the way I see it every day at school. And it's getting worse.

It seems that kids need to be instilled with a good sense of morals and respect, and violence isn't necessarily the right way to do this. I mean I guess it depends on the kid, but it seems to me like there's more effective ways to enforce your rules and emphasize that youre in charge than hitting them. But hell what do I know, I hate kids

I was hit when I was younger. I'm thankful for my parents for doing it.

It makes you think twice when you do things.

[QUOTE=IdioticJester]Not always. My brother in law knew this family and the kid was a rotten spoied brat. He was babysitting him once, and the kid was being very rude and nasty, so he hit him WHAM right across the face. That kid never acted out again, even his parents said so. They asked him what he did to make it stop, and he told them.. the mom flipped, but the dad was happy SOMEONE did it.[/QUOTE]
The problem wasn't that he wasn't being spanked, he was spoiled. His parents catered to everything he wanted. What do you expect? It's not as extreme as some kinds of abuse and neglect but is detrimental to children all the same. Had he learned some life-lessons earlier in life, he wouldn't be in a position to be hit now.

[QUOTE=lfantwister]It seems that kids need to be instilled with a good sense of morals and respect, and violence isn't necessarily the right way to do this. I mean I guess it depends on the kid, but it seems to me like there's more effective ways to enforce your rules and emphasize that youre in charge than hitting them. But hell what do I know, I hate kids[/QUOTE]
Actually, a little bit of force is the most direct and simple way to teach kids not to do certain things. It sounds "mean", but occasional spankings in the end do good for the kid.

[QUOTE=thedeadwalk!]The problem wasn't that he wasn't being spanked, he was spoiled. His parents catered to everything he wanted. What do you expect? It's not as extreme as some kinds of abuse and neglect but is detrimental to children all the same. Had he learned some life-lessons earlier in life, he wouldn't be in a position to be hit now.[/QUOTE]

Spoiled, also as in he refused to ever obey what he was told to do. After being hit, he learned.

[QUOTE]Actually, a little bit of force is the most direct and simple way to teach kids not to do certain things. It sounds "mean", but occasional spankings in the end do good for the kid.[/QUOTE]and you know this how?

[QUOTE=DBoon's Ghost]That's moronic. It solved nothing then and will solve nothing now. You know what will? Decent parenting. It's not even something that requires some greater higher form of education. It's simply a matter of wanting to be somewhat involved in your child's life.


Thats all.

And I got beatings from both parents and teachers and it was the least helpful thing I can recall from those years. All it made me do was hate catholicism and hate my parents for not parenting. Everything was a beating. It didn't help at all.

I know you're half kidding. However, it's not anyone's responsibility but the parents to properly discipline and educate your child on matters of social responsibility. Respect for elders should come naturally, and kids who are decidedly going the "hoodlum" route are falling prey to MTV and the culture they are selling. It's up to parents to work those kids' brains otherwise, and it's not happening.


As a parent, I think beatings are retarded. As a child who was both beaten by parents and teachers alike, I can promise you it changed nothing. In fact, as stated, it made it worse.[/QUOTE]

Beautifully said.

Classical (and operant) conditioning might work on rats and dogs, but do you really want to compare a child to a rat or a dog?

[QUOTE=IdioticJester]Spoiled, also as in he refused to ever obey what he was told to do. After being hit, he learned.[/QUOTE]
Which comes from a lack of authority of the parents, physical or not.

[QUOTE=nowhesingsnowhesobs]and you know this how?[/QUOTE]
If you're too soft with a kid and dare not touch them on occasions where they deserved to be disciplined, you're not doing your job as a parent.

What I find disconcerting about this thread is the absolute conviction some people have about the benefits of beating children. And the apparent pride in their willingness to hit kids.

edit:
[QUOTE]If you're too soft with a kid and dare not touch them on occasions where they deserved to be disciplined, you're not doing your job as a parent.[/QUOTE]OK you're just assuming beating is the appropriate course of action. Great argument.

[QUOTE=nowhesingsnowhesobs]What I find disconcerting about this thread is the absolute conviction some people have about the benefits of beating children. And the apparent pride in their willingness to hit kids.[/QUOTE]
No one wants children beaten. A little spank on the butt isn't beating a kid.

[QUOTE=thedeadwalk!]Which comes from a lack of authority of the parents, physical or not.[/QUOTE]

He wasn't really SPOILED... I just made sure to say that to show you that he wasn't in an abusive home. He was just never physically disciplined, and all the pansy time out stuff he got.. never worked.

[QUOTE=Mr. Ron]If you're too soft with a kid and dare not touch them on occasions where they deserved to be disciplined, you're not doing your job as a parent.[/QUOTE]
Discipline ≠ spanking

[QUOTE=thedeadwalk!]Discipline ≠ spanking[/QUOTE]

Sometimes it has to be!

[QUOTE]the kids have lost all respect for their elders[/QUOTE]

And I know that I've always respected everyone who's hit me.

[QUOTE=IdioticJester]He wasn't really SPOILED... I just made sure to say that to show you that he wasn't in an abusive home. He was just never physically disciplined, and all the pansy time out stuff he got.. never worked.[/QUOTE]
You know the kid better than I do but, there's more to it than just the act, there has to be a presence of authority behind it. Maybe you're parents sent mixed signals to him about the punishments or undermined each other differently. Maybe after a punishment they would apologize or otherwise disregard his act as minor. I can't say, and I doubt he remembers everything either.

[QUOTE]What I find disconcerting about this thread is the absolute conviction some people have about the benefits of beating children. And the apparent pride in their willingness to hit kids.[/QUOTE]

And in children it enforces the "might makes right" mindset.

Plus: [url]http://nospank.net/sexdngrs.htm[/url]
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Sometimes you just need to hit a kid. It should be a last resort, but never completely ruled out. That's all I'm saying.

No.

So if your kids refuse to ever listen to you, what do you do? Take away TV for another week?

Take out your aggression on them.

[QUOTE=nowhesingsnowhesobs]Take out your aggression on them.[/QUOTE]

A simple smack on the arm or leg will set 'em straight.

[QUOTE=Med57]There's no hard and fast guide to parenting. I was never hit or spanked or whatever you want to call it as a child, and I've turned out fine. I certainly normally see hitting your kids (or whatever you want to call it) as a sign that you've already lost control of the child, and as an indicator of the fact that you could probably have stopped whatever it is that they're doing wrong by acting in a more moderate way earlier. That's not to say that it's always wrong, as sometimes it may be the lesser of two evils, but I think that hitting the kid can always be averted by better parenting earlier on.[/QUOTE]
Not all children are the same. Some listen, and some don't. If a child does not respond to normal discipline, then a little spanking isn't uncalled for.

[QUOTE=IdioticJester]Not always. My brother in law knew this family and the kid was a rotten spoied brat. He was babysitting him once, and the kid was being very rude and nasty, so he hit him WHAM right across the face. That kid never acted out again, even his parents said so. They asked him what he did to make it stop, and he told them.. the mom flipped, but the dad was happy SOMEONE did it.[/QUOTE]

Guess who spoiled the rotten brat?

[QUOTE=nowhesingsnowhesobs]What I find disconcerting about this thread is the absolute conviction some people have about the benefits of beating children. And the apparent pride in their willingness to hit kids.

edit:
OK you're just assuming beating is the appropriate course of action. Great argument.[/QUOTE]
It's not beating! You were obviously never hit as a kid. It's not a slap across the face or striking with a bloody cricket bat. It's a smack on the back on the hand or a hit on the butt. For god's sake you're looking at the worse side of it. Listen. I was hit. I got smacked on the hand, I got smacked on my arse. I'm not violent, I'm a straight A student, I don't have any 'issues'. It hasn't damaged me in any way. The only thing it's done is taught me to do the right thing. It's not the scenario you're thinking of. It's not me refusing to go to bed so the parents start shouting and eventuall they hit me. If I did something wrong I would get punished. They didn't lose their temper- it was a sanction.

[QUOTE=coheneran]Guess who spoiled the rotten brat?[/QUOTE]

The mother. After hearing about the incident, the father started spanking the kid too, and he's much better.

[QUOTE=Mr. Ron]Not all children are the same. Some listen, and some don't. If a child does not respond to normal discipline, then a little spanking isn't uncalled for.[/QUOTE]

Yes it is. There's no such thing as a "little spanking". Even if it's not that painful, it's humiliating and it's degrading. Parents and teachers are in a position of power and responsibility, and to abuse that power on someone so vulnerable and inexperienced is plain wrong. Parenting and violence should not go hand in hand.

[QUOTE]So if your kids refuse to ever listen to you, what do you do? Take away TV for another week?[/QUOTE]
don't raise kids who refused to listen to me by showing myself to be a subhuman neanderthal who can't communicate with language and just has to resort to hitting things.

[QUOTE=coheneran]Yes it is. There's no such thing as a "little spanking". Even if it's not that painful, it's humiliating and it's degrading. Parents and teachers are in a position of power and responsibility, and to abuse that power on someone so vulnerable and inexperienced is plain wrong. Parenting and violence should not go hand in hand.[/QUOTE]

And sometimes children need to be degraded if they do not respond to other discipline. There are far worse things that can happen to them than a little smack.