[QUOTE=IdioticJester]Except most kids are smart enough to know that it won't get them anywhere and it's a parental punishment. Which is why I wouldn't hit my kids if they were 3 and did something wrong.[/QUOTE]

Actualy the younger they are, the more likely it is that they will devlop a negative association with whatever it is they did wrong. At the end of the day you're not trying to hurt them or anything - just show that whatever they did is not socially accepted.

[QUOTE]that's so not true!!!
Little kids are disobedient only becuase they only care about what htey want, not what you want them to do or don't want them to do. [/QUOTE]
so you make them want to do what you want them to do

[QUOTE]
because it's needless oppression carried out for it's own sake.
[/QUOTE]

So [I]you[/I] say. Some people say that any form of punishment is needless oppression, and they can back it with success stories. So by that standard, we should ban any form of punishment.

[QUOTE]So you say. Some people say that any form of punishment is needless oppression, and they can back it with success stories. So by that standard, we should ban any form of punishment.[/QUOTE]

[url]http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/oz/images/vc69.1.jpg[/url]

ugh zero

[QUOTE=lfantwister]they listen if they have a nonviolent incentive for them to listen[/QUOTE]
No they don't. Sure some may do, but little kids do not care what anyone else thinks. Ever seen a kid have a tantrum? I'd like to see someone try and sweet talk that.

[QUOTE]No they don't. Sure some may do, but little kids do not care what anyone else thinks. Ever seen a kid have a tantrum? I'd like to see someone try and sweet talk that.[/QUOTE]

Little kids may not care what anyone else thinks but they sure as hell care about their own priveleges. Like TV or seeing friends or what have you. And as for tantrums, they only do it for the attention they get afterwards. So no attention=less tantrums. THey'll learn

More often than not, when parents try the "patience" technique you refer to, they end up giving up before their child. It's only parental instinct. And that gives spoiled children.

other people being bad parents does nothing to my argument

I have noticed a generation of kids, in my year and below who all think they are the greatest thing since sliced bread. Some many kids now think they are so good and everyone should look up to them.

[QUOTE=Socrates]Children nowadays are tyrants. They contradict their parents, gobble their food and tyrannise their teachers. [/QUOTE]

Kids use to behave well, I'm sure.

[QUOTE]I have noticed a generation of kids, in my year and below who all think they are the greatest thing since sliced bread. Some many kids now think they are so good and everyone should look up to them.[/QUOTE]

Kids are kids. They always have been and they always will be. You're just looking at it with nostalgia and new knowledge.