5/4 fills in a 4/4
 

I can play both individually just fine.. but I was wondering how to implement a decent (non RLRLR across snare and toms) into a basic 4/4.

I tried to tab it out on here but things werent lining up.. little help?

[QUOTE=Kainen]I can play both individually just fine.. but I was wondering how to implement a decent (non RLRLR across snare and toms) into a basic 4/4.

I tried to tab it out on here but things werent lining up.. little help?[/QUOTE]
Well if its 5 beats its not gonna line up... Think about it, its 20 hits(16ths) in a bar were only 16 hits fit. Your gonna be in debt one beat

Huh? What are you talking about? Phrasing fills over the bar? Either it's in 4/4, or it's in 5/4.

[QUOTE=Det_Nosnip]Huh? What are you talking about? Phrasing fills over the bar? Either it's in 4/4, or it's in 5/4.[/QUOTE]
I think hes saying if he were playing in 5/4 he would do a fill. Then he goes 4/4 and he wants that same fill. It doesn't line up. I explained that to the best of my ability in the other post.

[QUOTE=FockerTheLopper]I think hes saying if he were playing in 5/4 he would do a fill. Then he goes 4/4 and he wants that same fill. It doesn't line up. I explained that to the best of my ability in the other post.[/QUOTE]


actually i was saying if i was playing in 4/4 how to do a fill with 5's.


like you can do triplets in 4/4 while maintaining the 4/4

You mean quintuplets? Aaaaaaah...VERY different from 5/4 time! Quintuplets are a rhythmic division that can be applied to any time signature (albeit some more easily than others). 5/4 is a meter marking that would signify 5 quarter notes within a measure.

I was thinking about that for a while, seems kinda hard to pull off. I don't really get the point either except for if you're trying to make something sound really complicated.

EDIT: I can see why you'd want to use it in a solo or something to show off your skills though.

[QUOTE=Det_Nosnip]You mean quintuplets? Aaaaaaah...VERY different from 5/4 time! Quintuplets are a rhythmic division that can be applied to any time signature (albeit some more easily than others). 5/4 is a meter marking that would signify 5 quarter notes within a measure.[/QUOTE]


ahhh yeah duhhh... sorry my vocab is shakey.

so yeah doing quintuplets in 4/4

these are by Billdrum, and the no. 9 has a simple concept of applying 5s into fills: [url]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y38/bmachold/Fills2.jpg[/url]

[QUOTE=Det_Nosnip]You mean quintuplets? Aaaaaaah...VERY different from 5/4 time! Quintuplets are a rhythmic division that can be applied to any time signature (albeit some more easily than others). 5/4 is a meter marking that would signify 5 quarter notes within a measure.[/QUOTE]

I highly doubt he means quintuplets. I think he means groups of 5 16ths. I like to play that, but it's always 5, 5, 6...Or some other combination that adds to 16 using groups of 5.

[QUOTE=Kainen]ahhh yeah duhhh... sorry my vocab is shakey.

so yeah doing quintuplets in 4/4[/QUOTE]

I win :p

one thing that helped me to get my mind working on quintuplets and septuplets was to associate it with words. saying a 5 syllable word is alot easier than counting 1 2 3 4 5. the word i started with was "hippopotamus". simply put the "hi" on every beat, and make sure you're spacing the syllables out evenly.

for septutplets, i just use "hippohippopotamus". it's a tough thing to train your mind to do, but once you start to get it, it becomes alot easier. i'm still fairly slow, but i'm more fluent with it was when i was trying to count the strokes with numbers.

You could play a 5/4 fill in a 4/4 tune by modulating the one bar to a quintuplet quarter note base.

I've never played around with that concept a whole lot, but my interest has been peaked now.

Here is tip.Count your hihat like playing heel toe.Let me explain.Decide where if you want to close is in 1 and 3 of 2 and 4.If you decide to close it in 2 and 4, do it with your toes and have your heel play the base plate at 1 and 3.
Here it is 1(your heel hits soflty the base plate of your hihat)
2(you close your hihat normaly with your toes)
3(repet 1)
4(repet 2)
Do this cause you will know your placement in the 4 bar without thinking much of it,so you can count the 5

[QUOTE=metallas]Here is tip.Count your hihat like playing heel toe.Let me explain.Decide where if you want to close is in 1 and 3 of 2 and 4.If you decide to close it in 2 and 4, do it with your toes and have your heel play the base plate at 1 and 3.
Here it is 1(your heel hits soflty the base plate of your hihat)
2(you close your hihat normaly with your toes)
3(repet 1)
4(repet 2)
Do this cause you will know your placement in the 4 bar without thinking much of it,so you can count the 5[/QUOTE]


ahh good call, i had been trying to do it with 4 quarter notes on the hi-hat and play the quintuplets evenly in that.




regarding the hippo deal. I've pretty much trained myself to count numbers fairly well.

in a song my band has I do a roll thats 2 sextuplets.. so its 123456 123456 pretty quick, and I ALWAYS count it in my head when I play it.. kinda weird to do live.

[QUOTE=metallas]Here is tip.Count your hihat like playing heel toe.Let me explain.Decide where if you want to close is in 1 and 3 of 2 and 4.If you decide to close it in 2 and 4, do it with your toes and have your heel play the base plate at 1 and 3.
Here it is 1(your heel hits soflty the base plate of your hihat)
2(you close your hihat normaly with your toes)
3(repet 1)
4(repet 2)
Do this cause you will know your placement in the 4 bar without thinking much of it,so you can count the 5[/QUOTE]


I'm not a fan of this. It really creates a crutch for the player. Time for a drummer should be internalized. Leaving all 4 limbs to be free to play whatever, whenever.

^^^^
I agree. It feels too much like that 'resisting' idea, where you make the stroke without hitting the instrument, essentially missing the note purposely.

The musician should be able to just not play it.

I usually count in numbers, but nothing bigger than 3 or 4. IE for a quintuplet, I would count it as "One, two, One, two, three" or "One, two, three, One, Two" depending on the phrasing.

[QUOTE=British Boy]^^^^
I agree. It feels too much like that 'resisting' idea, where you make the stroke without hitting the instrument, essentially missing the note purposely.

The musician should be able to just not play it.[/QUOTE]

I agree; however, one benefit of the resisting idea is that it enables you to ensure that all of the notes are clean and even despite rests...when you have notes broken up, it can be very easy to confuse note values. That said, I don't actually use the resisting method, but I don't yell at people for doing it, either.

One could play a 5/4 bar in a 4/4 tune. Be it shown on a chart or known by all, otherwise things might get interesting.

Oh no I wouldn't say someone is 'wrong' for doing it, and I understand the implications, but I just personally don't like it.

With the counting thing, I never count in numbers. I sing melodies of two notes.

5 = [B]da[/B] da [B]da[/B] da da [B]da[/B] da [B]da[/B] da da

7 = [B]da[/B] da [B]da[/B] da [B]da[/B] da da [B]da[/B] da [B]da[/B] da [B]da[/B] da da

You get the idea.

Whatever works. :)

[QUOTE=Bone]One could play a 5/4 bar in a 4/4 tune. Be it shown on a chart or known by all, otherwise things might get interesting.[/QUOTE]

"Interesting" does not necessarily mean "trainwreck." ;) If the rest of the band is good enough and you're still rhythmically in time (at the same tempo), then it's recoverable and might even work.

If your playing 4/4 then do a 5/4 wont you be a count behind the rest of the band and have to do a 6/4 to get back in time?

If you were a count behind, and wanted to get directly back in, you would play in 3/4.

yes, you would. Thanks my mistake

Well if you just add a bar of 5 in, then that's cool. Like bone said. You could prov even get away with it without telling anyone if you were clever.

I've had beats mysteriouslly dissapear or appear in songs. Always odd how that happens, yet nobody else notices.

Odd how nobody notices that Mission Impossible is in 5.

thanks for all the feed back guys!

:wave:

[QUOTE=Bone]One could play a 5/4 bar in a 4/4 tune. Be it shown on a chart or known by all, otherwise things might get interesting.[/QUOTE]

you could play a 5/4 bar in a bar where the rest of the band is playing in 4/4 too, you'd basically be playing quintuplets....

[quote=British Boy]
With the counting thing, I never count in numbers. I sing melodies of two notes.

5 = [B]da[/B] da [B]da[/B] da da [B]da[/B] da [B]da[/B] da da

7 = [B]da[/B] da [B]da[/B] da [B]da[/B] da da [B]da[/B] da [B]da[/B] da [B]da[/B] da da

You get the idea.[/quote]

One of my teachers reccomended counting in daa's or taa's like that instead of numerically. I can sort of see why but I still usually count:
one two three four five six sev eight (all single sylable words)

For some reason, I think it's better to practice that way, because it's less likey that you'll loose yourself in the middle of a measure if you're playing something that's really challenging, like getting crazy trading 4's in an odd time signature or something.