The Zen of Screaming - will it help me?
 

So, I am trying to teach myself how to do the kind of screaming found in post hardcore/metalcore/melo death music. Some random guy on the internet recommended me a DVD called the Zen of Screaming. So I downloaded it and have watched it a couple of times, tried the exercises and so forth. However, is it just me or does the DVD focus more on singing rather than screaming? I found the instructions on doing actual screams being rather scarce and vague.

Anyone who has watched this who can tell me if I should continue with this DVD or if I should look for other sources to teach me?

All I can reccomend is a vocal trainer or teacher, they will give you exercises and techniques which will stop you from damaging your voicebox and whatnot, Im no expert but I have several friends who are qualified vocal teachers, and its not something you sohuld just rip into straight from the get go, get some lessons man to get you on your feet, then branch off from that!

I've never heard of that video, but I would love to see the full length video that this clip is from:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bH5gmbugmxM

You have to learn to sing before you can scream. The voice is delicate, and improper screaming is a sure fire way to wreck it. Learning to sing is about getting the correct co-ordinations to produce sounds powerfully and easily, without strain or tension.

In saying that, plenty of people just scream. If that's the way you wanna go, it's entirely possible. But if you want to save your voice and avoid a lot of pain and possibly very, very serious damage, walk before you run. Sing before you scream.

The Zen Of Screaming teaches you warm up exercises and correct breathing which is vital if you wanna be a proficient singer/screamer. You cant just start screaming cold just like you cant run a marathon cold. Learn the exercises do the warm ups and then work on your technique.

as a recording and performing vocalist for various hard rock/metal projects over the last few years i can tell you that screaming is not difficult nor do you need somebody to teach you how to do it. screaming is quite possibly the easiest vocal technique i know, and people who tell you otherwise probably just have no idea what they're talking about.

screaming is simple to do and easy to record. it's simple to do because all it takes is power and lung capacity. it does not take control. and as far as "safe" screaming goes, all screaming is safe. you'll lose your voice a lot faster singing melodically than you will screaming. screaming implies a distinct sort of rasp tone, ala any death metal vocal. it is different from singing and yelling in that it isolates specific parts of your vocal chords, known as your falsetto voice.

because it isolates only a portion of your vocal chords, its easy to sustain.

also, screaming acoustically...it will never sound right to your ears. you need to record it, and record it well, for the screams to come through the way you want them to. or sing through a microphone over a band, etc. the scream will always sound like crap otherwise.

but anyways, TL;DR version

1) screaming is easy. nothing to it
2) practice by recording
3) key is in finding a tone or rasp. whether it be death growl, or pig squeal. they all use the same portion of your vocal chords

The Technique she teaches for screaming is how you should scream. And I would say don't watch it expecting to learn to scream, just to enhance your knowledge of screaming. She has important tidbits like, not raising the volume when you scream. All that jazz

[QUOTE=Raayl;17260060]as a recording and performing vocalist for various hard rock/metal projects over the last few years i can tell you that screaming is not difficult nor do you need somebody to teach you how to do it. screaming is quite possibly the easiest vocal technique i know, and people who tell you otherwise probably just have no idea what they're talking about.

screaming is simple to do and easy to record. it's simple to do because all it takes is power and lung capacity. it does not take control. and as far as "safe" screaming goes, all screaming is safe. you'll lose your voice a lot faster singing melodically than you will screaming. screaming implies a distinct sort of rasp tone, ala any death metal vocal. it is different from singing and yelling in that it isolates specific parts of your vocal chords, known as your falsetto voice.

because it isolates only a portion of your vocal chords, its easy to sustain.

also, screaming acoustically...it will never sound right to your ears. you need to record it, and record it well, for the screams to come through the way you want them to. or sing through a microphone over a band, etc. the scream will always sound like crap otherwise.

but anyways, TL;DR version

1) screaming is easy. nothing to it
2) practice by recording
3) key is in finding a tone or rasp. whether it be death growl, or pig squeal. they all use the same portion of your vocal chords[/QUOTE]

The thing is, I need some kind of teaching since I am obviously doing it wrong (I am hurting myself and can't get it to sound like a "real" scream at all currently). I don't even know where in my throat the scream should come from, how to aim it, or anything.

[QUOTE]You have to learn to sing before you can scream. The voice is delicate, and improper screaming is a sure fire way to wreck it. Learning to sing is about getting the correct co-ordinations to produce sounds powerfully and easily, without strain or tension.

In saying that, plenty of people just scream. If that's the way you wanna go, it's entirely possible. But if you want to save your voice and avoid a lot of pain and possibly very, very serious damage, walk before you run. Sing before you scream.[/QUOTE]

Could I use the Zen of Screaming to learn how to sing? There are almost no proper vocal teachers in Stockholm that I know of. Oh, we have the Communal Culture School where you can get teachers used to teaching 14 year olds Modest Mouse songs but apart from that, not much unless you go to a special school that focus on music.

dude, i'm telling you - teach yourself. learning things on your own will always make you a better artist in the long run, in my opinion. always make it a rule to surround yourself with people who are better than you, IE, learning songs above your ability range to sing. and learn EVERYTHING you hear, too - sing ALL THE TIME.

i mean, i'm an industrial vocalist and i spent all this week learning to sing the climb by miley cyrus. everything has application. as far as screaming goes, try to scream using just your falsetto voice. (your head voice, the girly sound crank that up into a scream, play with it like that. youll get it.)

[QUOTE]dude, i'm telling you - teach yourself. learning things on your own will always make you a better artist in the long run, in my opinion. always make it a rule to surround yourself with people who are better than you, IE, learning songs above your ability range to sing. and learn EVERYTHING you hear, too - sing ALL THE TIME.

i mean, i'm an industrial vocalist and i spent all this week learning to sing the climb by miley cyrus. everything has application.[/QUOTE]

Well I can probably teach myself how to sing by just singing enough alone in my home I guess? My voice is currently offkey-ish most of the time but I have found that the album "suicide notes and butterfly kisses" (ugh yeah, atreyu) has very easy singing parts that I can keep up with moderately well. However I know nothing of breathing techniques and stuff like that.

[QUOTE] as far as screaming goes, try to scream using just your falsetto voice. (your head voice, the girly sound crank that up into a scream, play with it like that. youll get it.)[/QUOTE]

However, thats the problem with my screaming. I have no idea how to use my falsetto voice! I have no idea at all how to access it, how I even know if I am using it. I have no idea at all what this falsetto voice thing is :P

its just the girly "high pitched" voice. when you want to speak goofy like a girl or whatever thats the voice you use. isolate that, and use it to scream. the falsetto works for screaming because it isolates a portion of your vocal chords not all of them, so its safe to stretch them and strain them with a scream. screaming also comes from the throat, though - and thats what will probably hurt the most.

sing everything. it takes years of practice to go from being a decent singer to a great singer. its extremely difficult, but you just gotta keep at it. try shaping your voice as many different ways as you can. explore your voice.

right now my practice routine is all about harmony. singing difficult songs out of my range and maintaining every note 1 octave below. im also practicing distinction and how to use your mouth to produce notes more effectively. grinning or smiling when you sing is a great tip. try it out - when you're singing a hard note to hit, contort your face into a grin, it'll make it easier to scoot up those extra few notes.

and for the record, singing is LOUD. make sure you can practice somewhere where you wont be nervous or embarrassed. i know its difficult to practice with my room mates home, cause when i'm trying new things of course it sounds terrible, haha. its ok to sound bad while you're learning.

i just learned to sing the climb, which once was a song i never thought i could sing is now second nature and easy as pie. just takes practice man.

abandon this notion that good singers can sing anything right off the bat. you HAVE to practice and learn HOW to hit the notes.

yes of course, I sing heartily (and loud) in my crow-like, offkey voice in my home.

How should I distribute my screaming/singing practise? Should I start with singing and wait until I become decent and then try to scream? Like start to try to sing like a girl and then gradually transferring to a scream (I have noticed I tense my throat a lot when I try to sound highpitched like a girl though...)?

Thanks for all the tips by the way! They are golden advice for someone like me who is just starting out :thumb:

really nobody can "teach" you how to sing or scream. you just gotta try it out for yourself till you get somewhere where you are comfortable. as far as practice goes, make it unstructured. make singing part of what do you do every single day.

While I don't consider myself a very good singer, or screamer... ...I do consider myself an extremely accomplished musician for my genere (is that how you spell it?) Or style rather.

With that said, and I haven't read the other posts (although I am about to,) I am certain that the screaming technique presented in the Zen of Scream will come naturally to you when you are ready for it. I was classically trainned, and I picked up on it right away (still not good in my opinion lol.) But I'm sure that it's a subconscious thing dependent on preparedness. I could explain how she teaches it in the video, but she did it that way for a reason, and I'm not going to, because I'm sure it will **** you up if I did.

And just so you know; there is alot of bad advice in this thread, and it should be deleted. I'm sure everyone in here can do whatever they do well, but the advice is bad.

Now will you go and please read my post where I desperately need help????? It's in the song writing and lyrics forum.

[QUOTE=13 Crosses;17270854]While I don't consider myself a very good singer, or screamer... ...I do consider myself an extremely accomplished musician for my genere (is that how you spell it?) Or style rather.

With that said, and I haven't read the other posts (although I am about to,) I am certain that the screaming technique presented in the Zen of Scream will come naturally to you when you are ready for it. I was classically trainned, and I picked up on it right away (still not good in my opinion lol.) But I'm sure that it's a subconscious thing dependent on preparedness. I could explain how she teaches it in the video, but she did it that way for a reason, and I'm not going to, because I'm sure it will **** you up if I did.

And just so you know; there is alot of bad advice in this thread, and it should be deleted. I'm sure everyone in here can do whatever they do well, but the advice is bad.

Now will you go and please read my post where I desperately need help????? It's in the song writing and lyrics forum.[/QUOTE]

they classically train screaming? :confused:

the only bad advice in this thread is too much talking about it not enough practicing

[QUOTE=Raayl;17270963]they classically train screaming? :confused:

the only bad advice in this thread is too much talking about it not enough practicing[/QUOTE]

No I don't think they classically train screaming. I didn't figure out how to do it until I learned about the style of blues on the guitar. But after the Zen of screaming I could do it without it hurting as much. I also have started to be able to "fry," and false setto scream.

honestly just yell on the top of your lungs and youre golden

[QUOTE=hismajestythepope;17272401]honestly just yell on the top of your lungs and youre golden[/QUOTE]

^ this

[QUOTE]honestly just yell on the top of your lungs and youre golden[/QUOTE]

well as long as my vocal cords still are golden after doing that a couple of years ;)

Hey OP i came across this page from google and registered just to tell you not to listen too much to raayl! if it worked for him i'm happy for him, hes doing something right and it obviously sounds like it works for him (and actually i like the falsetto scream ideas and his music rocks). but you should NEVER be recommending to someone to sing as loud as you can. it is [B]obviously[/B] possible to hurt your voice doing that. a good singer can hit they're highest note in a whisper or a scream (check out aretha franklin).

definitely learn to sing without screaming before you start screaming. theres millions of things you can find on the internet, look up 'speech level singing'. and yeah the most important thing is practicing, not once or twice a week, but 5 or 6 days a week.

some people have funny ideas about vocal coaches. as a musician you should be taking advice from everyone (raayl is still right about a lot of things) but the best people to take advice from are the ones that have spent they're life trying to solve theyre own vocal problems and vocal problems in others. such as a vocal coach.

some quick advice on singing that wont end up giving you damaged vocal chords:
1) when you breathe dont do shallow breaths that lift your shoulders. do deep pot bellied breaths.

2) the best singers sound like they sing as naturally as they talk. you should sing like you talk to avoid adding extra tension to you throat. talk a bit, then elongate the words your talking and suddenly your talking turns to singing with out tension. you dont want to swallow while singing, you want your throat open, even if you wanna scream.

most important thing is practice, push your self, but don't do it the point that it causes pain.
and uhh listen to tom waits while you at it.

[QUOTE=Raayl;17264812]really nobody can "teach" you how to sing or scream. you just gotta try it out for yourself till you get somewhere where you are comfortable. as far as practice goes, make it unstructured. make singing part of what do you do every single day.[/QUOTE]

while i totally respect your opinion, i have to strongly disagree with just about everything you have said. it is ignorant to say that no one can teach you nor you should except help. sure everyone can sing but we have all heard the result of people singing completly incorrectly. ie singing through the nose, not pushing/breathing the right way. and it sounds terrible. there is nothing wrong with excepting help from a qualified teacher who can make you better at your art. if singing is important to you, then there is no reason why you shouldnt do all you can to make as good as you can. lamb of god is a legendary metal band, and he works with a vocal coach on every album. and screaming can be very difficult to tackle your first time around. sure some people can just pick it up no problem, but not everyone can. and i for one would much rather get help before i ruin my voice.

[QUOTE=hey;17385882]while i totally respect your opinion, i have to strongly disagree with just about everything you have said. it is ignorant to say that no one can teach you nor you should except help. sure everyone can sing but we have all heard the result of people singing completly incorrectly. ie singing through the nose, not pushing/breathing the right way. and it sounds terrible. there is nothing wrong with excepting help from a qualified teacher who can make you better at your art. if singing is important to you, then there is no reason why you shouldnt do all you can to make as good as you can. lamb of god is a legendary metal band, and he works with a vocal coach on every album. and screaming can be very difficult to tackle your first time around. sure some people can just pick it up no problem, but not everyone can. and i for one would much rather get help before i ruin my voice.[/QUOTE]

Nobody can teach you how if you're not willing to practice and discover it for yourself. Teachers or coaches should be there to give feedback and offer helpful advice, much like this forum or this thread does - they don't do the job for you. My point was you need to just go for it.

This theory of "ruining your voice" by screaming incorrectly or whatever is pretty much nonsense, btw. Your voice is just like any other muscle or part of your body - it can take heavy punishment and it will adapt. I know we can all think of examples of people who have "ruined their voice" by screaming but this takes years and years of constant dedicated effort hundreds of thousands of live shows night after night with no rest.

If you rest when tired your voice will be fine. Don't be such a baby.

your voice is not like any other muscle at all. its very fragile. screaming incorrectly can damage your voice and your just blind if you think otherwise. and no one said a teacher is there to show you how to operate for vocal chords to produce notes, its common sense that a teacher is there to guide you. a teacher or vocal coach is there to tell you what your doing wrong and show you the correct way. look at it like driving a stick shift for the first time. sure MAYBE you could figure it out on your own, but if your entering something youve never done before, then it's gonna take a lot of trial and error, and by the time you learn, your clutch will be damaged, maybe not completely, but very damaged nonetheless. except you can replace a clutch, you cant replace your vocal chords. so there is no reason at all why you shouldn't seek help if your serious about your craft. and if you do it right, you can go every night over and over and not have to rest. if you have to rest for a few days after youve had a show, youre doing it wrong. and it isnt enjoyable when every time you have a show you're in pain. its not about being tough and "not a baby", its about not being a dumbass and neglecting your most precious muscle.

The voice is no different than the bicep in terms of capacity for endurance. It's powered by muscles, tendons, and nerves, just like any other part of your body. My biceps can lift hundreds and hundreds of pounds day after day, because I've trained them to do such. My voice can exhibit all its power day after day after day, because I've trained it to do such.

Your body is your tool and your weapon. It's a lot tougher than you think. It's capabilities to adapt and overcome are quite remarkable.

Also, screaming is probably one of the easiest vocal techniques I do in terms of heavy lifting. Powerful singing is #1 most strenuous, followed by gutturals, etc. Screaming is near the bottom of the list.

Your screaming sucks though. Go figure.

but it is possible to pull a muscle if you say bench press the wrong amount of weight in the wrong way. and just because it is a muscle doesnt mean it is as tough as a bicep. your bicep is very strong which enables it to be tougher, your vocals chords are a very weak muscle, making it fragile and easy to damage. go punch vin diesel in the chest with moderate force, he'll probably hardly feel it, punch a 10 year kid with same force and the kid may bruise. while i see your point, and respect it, my argument only states that there is no reason why you shouldnt except help. that doesnt mean that im saying if your a singer you need lessons, a lot of people learn without lessons, im saying that if you want, and you have the money then i think it would be a good idea, but no, it is not required.

idk, i just don't think it's that big of a mystery. it's not hard to "do it right."

just like bench pressing. it's pretty straightforward. not rocket science. much more emphasis should be placed on a vocal coach for difficult techniques - like head voice transitioning, falsetto control, and octave expansion. screaming is easy and it's not difficult to do "correctly" assuming there is a correct way to do it. People make it out to be a lot more than it is., imo.

So you're saying that screaming places no emphasis on head voice transitioning, falsetto control, and octave expansion?

Nooooooob.

[QUOTE=iamtherobots;17414978]So you're saying that screaming places no emphasis on head voice transitioning, falsetto control, and octave expansion?

Nooooooob.[/QUOTE]

lol