GURU prototypes now available!
 

Guru drumworks in the UK along with their regular lines of conventional drums have just released their updated version of the prototype they showcased earlier this year and are now taking orders. Custom radial bridge type design with stave or steam bent shells available in your choice of woods, depths, sizes, etc.



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Those look really weird!

Similar to the Peavey radials, the Boogie Woodie's, Whitney drums and the Pearl free floating snares the lugs and hardware are not bolted to or thru the shell which increases tone and resonance while almost eliminating any odd harmonic overtones.

Here is a clip of the original prototypes with no close mic or eq and they are saying the changes in the design have made a huge improvement.

http://www.gurudrumworks.co.uk/videos.html

Im sure they sound amazing and I love the finish, but the style of the drums arent really my type :/

Pretty drums. Look like furniture.

Excellent choice on using the YESS mounts. Just fix that mount issue there on the tom and it'd be pretty slick.

I bet they cost a pretty penny though. It's always concerning when the website doesn't have price ranges haha

No YESS mounts there as they would have had to drill holes in the shells to use them which would negate the whole point of the design so they went with Guager RIMS mounts, they tested a bunch of different isolation mounts and these did the best job sonically. They just happened to use a Yamaha tom arm holder and stand just for the pics.

There is no tom mount issue either, its just removed from the RIMS suspension mount just to show how they are attached from the rear of the lug the same as the radials were so you dont have to fuss with them when changing heads like you do when they are mounted between the lug and hoop.

Pricing is said to be around the same as a DW custom set.

From what I have been told Boogie Woodie is also building a second line of drums that has a thinner bridge similar to these instead of the thicker one they originally used that was the same as the one used on the Peavey radials which will also use a RIMS type isolation mount.

Yes, Yamaha arms.

I guarantee there is an issue with that mounting, I wasn't referring to it being detached.

1 of 2 things is occurring:

1. The mount is hitting the shell. You can clearly see the gap between the RIMS(or whatever brand that is) mount is tiny.

2. If it's not hitting the shell, that means the mount is so tight that the point of suspending it has been nullified.

For reference my toms move over an 1" in each direction when being played.


* By the way, YESS mounts use nodal points. I won't bother going into the absurdly complex physics of what that means. But let's just say RIMS mount style systems SUCK. Very badly. For many reasons, such as the one mentioned above.

Sorry but again your mistaken, there is nothing wrong with the mounting..lol, Do you really think they would spend all that time and money and then release them with something as simple as a mounting issue. I think not! The whole point is to not have anything mounted to or touching the shell so it can resonate unobstructed.The lugs rest freely in the rubber mounts placing no stress on the shell and distribute the weight evenly around the drum. All the rest of the hardware is built in house, if there was a design that worked or sounded better they would have bought it or built it.

There is a reason many people have copied the design or used something similar to RIMS is because this type of mount as everyone knows is one of the very best types of isolation mounts available and for 2 reasons:

1 - they support the drum from multiple positions around the drum, single area mounting can choke the drum due to uneven stress applied to different spots of the drum, even worse if its rigid mounted and this has been tested and proven by many drum companies.
2 - they do not mount directly to the shell, anything mounted to or thru the shell reduces warmth and resonance and again its even worse if rigid mounted. This can be easily tested by hitting a drum while suspending it and then hitting it while holding the shell.

The reason your drums move so much is because you have a shell mounted system and to retain as much tone and resonance possible it has to be allowed to flex and makes a huge difference compared to a rigid shell mount. RIMS type are not shell mounted so they do not have this issue and do not need to move. The only down side to a RIMS type mount is having to deal with them when changing heads which is a non issue on Guru and Radial type drums because they are mounted to the rear of the lug.

YESS mounts are the very best of the shell mounted suspension systems but people who have changed them to RIMS type still find they can get a bit more warmth and resonance from their drums.
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Is there that much difference, probably not on a drum that already has a dozen lugs drilled and mounted to the shell, and would be even less on high end ply kits, especially when you factor in personal head choice which could eliminate any difference what so ever depending on the head, ex: 2ply, pre muffled, etc, but Guru was trying to squeeze the absolute best sound they could get from every aspect of the design and the RIMS system won hands down compared to all other mounting systems available.

Remember Guru still makes custom high end stave and steam bent lugged drums but were out to build the very best sounding kit they could build for the player that wants the very best sounding kit he can have from the very best technology and inovations available today so they spent thousand of dollars and several years A/B testing every possible aspect of the design no matter how small and insignificant it could be, from shell depths woods and finishes right down to suspension mounts and hardware as well as every head combo possible which is still ongoing but has been narrowed down to single ply heads from Evans and Aquarian and the final product is what you see.

there will not be enough people buying these things at that price for this company to work.... im sure it costs a lot to do what theyre doing.....and there just isnt a market for this right now... we should make a betting pool for how long it takes the company to fail.... winner can buy a better set of drums, cheaper

I see this is going to turn in to another headbutting contest over whether or not Radial style drums are a good design

Huh, they're actually in the same town as me. Who'd have thought

[QUOTE=Pearl2004;18936873]there will not be enough people buying these things at that price for this company to work.... im sure it costs a lot to do what theyre doing.....and there just isnt a market for this right now... we should make a betting pool for how long it takes the company to fail.... winner can buy a better set of drums, cheaper[/QUOTE]

This is not a new company, they have been building drums for years and decided to design these after getting many requests for something with increased tone and resonance. They already have more orders than they can fill at this time and just finished getting reviewed by Drummer magazine yesterday.

Boogie Woodie has more orders than they can fill at this time and Whitney Drums has been surviving for a dozen plus years building only a radial type drum so odds are good they will do just fine considering they are around the same money as a custom DW ply drum and less than Craviotto custom drums.

[QUOTE=Drum Phil;18936922]Huh, they're actually in the same town as me. Who'd have thought[/QUOTE]

Get a hold of them, I am 100% positive Andy and Dean will let you go try them, then you will know for yourself the huge difference it makes with the hardware is removed from the shells. I know how much difference it makes on a regular ply drum but to add this type of design to a stave or steam bent shell would be nothing short of incredible sounding.

I know they have sound files coming soon but its always the same thing, if their not eq'd people cry "BS they are eq'd", and if they are eq'd they want to hear them not eq'd so the best thing is to go and personally try them and see for yourself. Thats what I did with my radials and thats what sold me, no hype or marketing BS, just A/B testing with other pro level kits and the no lug design won, hands down.

Maybe i will, it's only down the road

I like the look of these far better than the Peavey Radials or Boogie Woodies. Just seems like a better design aesthetically.

Shell construction aside, the only design difference is that you actually see the lugs because the bridge/external rerings are thinner and the lugs hook over them instead of go thru them, even the RIMS mounts are fastened to the backside of the lug the same as the radials. Boogie Woodie is also putting out a second line with the bridge shaped very similar to the way Guru made their bass drum hoops (thick where the lugs are and thinner in between) and are also adding RIMS type mounting system to the second line.

[B]Drummer Magazine review copy and pasted from Drummer World:[/B]

IN USE
Simply looking at the kit draws you in, and once set I couldn't wait to get hands-on with this beauty. At a low tuning the kick drum produces some of the warmest and punchiest notes I've heard. Equipped with Aquarian heads - SuperKick II batter and a ported Force II resonant - the drum delivers superbly, the quietest of feathered touches touches through to the most heavy-footed onslaughts give a very consistent quality of tone, with the completely undrilled shell resonating freely to add a huge amount of body, depth and superb projection. The drum gives exactly the same qualities when tuned-up, too, with the extra tension only adding to the articulation and dynamic range this kick possesses in droves. It's one of the fattest-sounding kick drums I've ever had the pleasure to review.

All three toms are simply stunning. The un-drilled shells again add a fantastic amount of body and depth to any notes played, with the drums singing out with clarity and projection at whatever tuning range I set them at. Each drum offers a pitch-perfect note, which at not point seems to sound choked or out of character, and one that sits perfectly with its siblings, giving you a true 'set' of drums. The S-hoops give you a very focussed sound, with head duties being carried out once again by Aquarian, although I'm absolutely sure that this kit would sound just as good using comparable heads, as the unique design means that the incredibly resonant shells are responsible for a large proportion of the kit's sound.

With this Performance model being one of three new kits in the Origin series, the others being the Classic range (featuring solid, steam-bent ash shells - look out for a full review in a coming issue of Drummer), and their Custom range, I can't wait to check out the full Origin series at their official launch at this year's London Drum Show.

CONCLUSION
It's very difficult to give a picture of what this kit truly has to offer in this short amount of space: I could easily wax lyrical about how stunning this kit sounds, how well it's constructed and how each and every individual element is made to an amazingly high specification.

Instead I will just say, honestly, that this is one of the best kits I've ever had the pleasure of playing.


EDIT:
Link to full review with pics in pdf.
http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=51384&d=1348065572

Idk, sounds like a generic review, too pushy, I hate this review, I hate it, I hate it

They look nice and if they have decent quality control (which the aesthetic finish level suggests) then they'll sound nice if it's your thing. I wouldn't mind grabbing one if they ever end up in Oz. I like the look a lot. I'd probably go for a little bop kit though, not some huge thing. I love the furnituresque look in bop kits; straight to the pool room. To me it's the finish quality that jumps out, not the design. Which is cool and surprising.

MD reviews are useless haha... well almost all magazine reviews are useless actually.

You know they pay to have that advertising, er I mean review, right?

No, they did not pay for the review, if they wanted their product reviewed they had to bring it to them set them up and hang around most of the day till they get around to it, from what I understand what they do is once a month or so they set up a time and a place and anyone with new products that wants to have them reviewed by Drummer Magazine can come. No payments are exchanged on any ones part and to be honest I have seen a few brutal reviews in that magazine over the years. Andy said he was on pins and needles waiting for the review to come out because he had no idea how it would turn out as the drummer/editor that test drove them remained emotion free during the whole thing with nothing but a hand shake and a "thanks" and "your review will be in next months issue" afterward the off he went to the next product. Orders are already coming in just form word of mouth and the forums but the true test will be to see what happens after the London drum show next month.

Disclaimer: I think these drums are pretty cool, so don't take my words as spiteful or hateful.

But the way you have so much insider information on this company, you have to be associated directly with them somehow. Just saying.

Don't know about "Drummer Magazine"... if it is how you say it is, then they are a tiny operation at best.

Companies like Modern Drummer you have to submit your product, for a fee, and they'll "review" it.

Of course, like all "reviews" in magazines they are bogus. Always positive and written with flowery language.
Never once have I ever read a negative review about a product - that is the proof. And I have decades of drum mags on the shelves.

[QUOTE=Seafroggys;18949525]Disclaimer: I think these drums are pretty cool, so don't take my words as spiteful or hateful.

But the way you have so much insider information on this company, you have to be associated directly with them somehow. Just saying.[/QUOTE]


He likes to feel important. Obviously has limited funds and a pretty set in stone drum rig.
Probably not directly involved but knows some people and likes the idea. Nothing wrong with that at all!

Of course, like anything that is based on performance of the product. It'd be nice to see some actual A/B testing.


Oh yes I wanted to mention - Everything else aside, if "Guru" was really a "guru" they won't dream of putting those shitty heads on their drums.
Aquarian drum heads truly do suck. What a truly stupid way to show off your product.

I'm sure someone will argue the contrary, but let's call a spade a spade. 2 head companies dominate 99% of the market for good reason. Neither of them are Aquarian.

Haha, good call on the aquarian, they may be associated with guru somehow, giving them free heads for their kits to show the logo... All companies operate around that basis..

[QUOTE=Pearl2004;18949557]Haha, good call on the aquarian, they may be associated with guru somehow, giving them free heads for their kits to show the logo... All companies operate around that basis..[/QUOTE]

Of course.

But in a case like this, that's totally bogus.

You'd dip into cost if necessary to use the best possible heads. Just like they picked some really nice hoops.

Agreed... Companies will usually ship with the standard remos or evans at least... Everyone knows what to expect out of the heads and can see what the drums do...

[QUOTE=Seafroggys;18949525]Disclaimer: I think these drums are pretty cool, so don't take my words as spiteful or hateful.

But the way you have so much insider information on this company, you have to be associated directly with them somehow. Just saying.[/QUOTE]

Nope, no association what so ever, just a big fan of the design, I have a set similar design radial pro and I know how much difference there is between them and a regular ply drum with shell mounted drums so I am always very interested in the companies that use or improve on this type of design.

[QUOTE=Pearl2004;18949557]Haha, good call on the aquarian, they may be associated with guru somehow, giving them free heads for their kits to show the logo... All companies operate around that basis..[/QUOTE]

They are testing all single ply heads from Aquarian and Evans for these 2 lines of drums and FYI they had to buy them all, no freebies, the Aquarian were just what they were testing at the time of the review. As for Remo they wont use them for any of their drums, they did testing for their regular lugged drums and they said they wouldnt go into it but there were too many issues with Remo and they use strictly Evans on those kits. Now that Aquarian is becoming more easily available in the UK they decided to A/B test to see what sounds best on the new design.

Personally when it comes to heads, as far as I an concerned, after spending almost 35 years trying different heads, Remo is now the bottom of the barrel, at one time they were the best but I find they are just riding on their rep now, which might I add is slowly starting to fade. Evans and Aquarian IMO sound the best with Aquarian being somewhat lower priced and lasting a bit longer. I have been using Aquarian for almost 15 years now and although I try some of the others from time to time I always end up back to Aquarian.

Even many of the music stores here are stocking more Aquarian along with Evans and some have dropped Remo all together due to loss of sales and return rates. I know 3 session drummers that work in the drum department at 2 of the Long & McQuade locations that have switched to Aquarian a couple years back and also keep a full stock of Aquarian and Evans at the store with Remo being an order only item. Even 10+ years ago I was getting Aquarian mailed to me from one of the Long & McQuade locations in Toronto that stocked them when we couldnt even get them down here at any of the local music stores or Music Stop locations which actually got bought out by L&M finally givving us access to them locally now that they have 53 locations Canada wide. Even when you check out their website its mostly Evans and Aquarian with only a couple of the popular Remo's like the power strokes, ambassador and a few of the tattoo heads.

[QUOTE=Vinnie's Ice Cream;18949536]
Obviously has limited funds and a pretty set in stone drum rig.[/QUOTE]

LOL, you dont know me very well, I bet I have 3 or 4 times more money tied up in equipment than you do, over $30,000 just in the PA as I also do sound for local indoor and outdoor events, limited funds, lol, yeh limited to buying what I want, If I wanted a new kit tomorrow Id buy one but I dont , so I wont, when I bought my Radials in 1999 I bought them because they were the best sounding kit on the floor, I eventually sold my Yamaha MCA's and my Pearl Masters and have been gigging the radials ever since. The day I find something that sounds better I will probably buy it but until then why would I bother. I will just keep them and spend my cash on other things, like a new sled, or maybe double up on our trips to Jamaicia each year, or buy a couple more rental properties...BTW my kits not set in stone, actually quite the opposite, depending on where I am playing or who I am playing with its been everything from a 3 piece to an 8 piece, set in stone, I think not.

[QUOTE=Vinnie's Ice Cream;18949536]
I'm sure someone will argue the contrary, but let's call a spade a spade. 2 head companies dominate 99% of the market for good reason. Neither of them are Aquarian.[/QUOTE]

That dont mean shit, two guitar manufactures dominate guitar sales but neither are the very best you can buy and two auto companies dominate the car industry as well but neither is even close to being the best available. The lower end products always dominate the market. Do you think Yamaha sells more MCA and PHX, compared to Stage Customs and Rock Tours, I think not.

How the hell do you know they pay full price for there aquarian drum heads? That's just an odd fact :/

[QUOTE=Pearl2004;18949919]How the hell do you know they pay full price for there aquarian drum heads? That's just an odd fact :/[/QUOTE]

Very easily, Andy posted all the information on Drummerworld.com as people started asking questions about the new Guru's after he posted the pics. Here is one of several threads dedicated to the Gurus, read for yourself.

http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93917

FYI, I never said they paid full price, I only said they had to pay for them, no freebies. Although I dont know for sure but I would think anyone buying enough heads for 2 kits of every single ply model available from both companies would surely get some kind of discount.

BTW any members from the Uk that are going to the London drum show can see, hear and play them for themselves as Andy and Dean will be bringing both the stave and steam bent kits built with this same design.

....We haven't gone for Aquarian yet, just happened to be the ones we're testing first, & we've partnered with Aquarian's UK distributor with Aquarian's blessing. They're waiting for our head testing results too :)..... Straight from the link, they've partnered with the distributor...

[QUOTE=Pearl2004;18949932]....We haven't gone for Aquarian yet, just happened to be the ones we're testing first, & we've partnered with Aquarian's UK distributor with Aquarian's blessing. They're waiting for our head testing results too :)..... Straight from the link, they've partnered with the distributor...[/QUOTE]

Yes, so like I said, they probably got a deal but they didnt get them for free, keep reading, there is a part somewhere where he talks about how much it cost to build the first ones and what they invested in different things like hoops and suspension mounts that they tested then ended up not using and hes states something about the sizable investment in heads alone could get you a decent off the shelf ply kit from a local music store.