[QUOTE=wammy_bar;13864064]like when ur saying, Yickkkkk?

like how jews and the terrorists make that noise in their language, like how jews say hanuka, like ur hawking a loogy? cause i sing the note but i can tdo that without stopping the note

all im asking is when i rasp sing is how do i push, but not make it sound like im pushing, would projecting more help, because i just got surgery and cant leave my bed often, and cant project while laying down. so is projecting going to help me to sound less like im pushing too hard? btw nothing of what im talking about is hurting so its all okayk, it just sounds bad[/QUOTE]
I dont think its the same as the language thing youre talking about or hawking a loogy. Again this is the wrong answer buzzer "annnnk" area. Or the dog growl or as melissa cross would say the dump. Pressurize like your pushing out a shlt and feel that pressure, then make a note while grunting A LITTLE like youre pushing a dump. Again you have to get to where you use only the amount you need, and higher notes dont need the same degree of "grunt" that a lower would need. Higher notes actuallu will sound crappier if you rasp them with the same degree you would a low note, which is a typical grunt. You project by having proper diaphragm support which will probably be harder to do from a bed. Once youre in touch with the mechanism then its a matter of adjusting it with your diapghram support as to how "pushy" it sounds. But once you get the rasp and feel of what it takes then its up to you. Again you will have to pressurize and get in touch with that. Practice it by feeling that "dump" feeling and open up like youre getting ready to scream "AHHH!" from constipation but hold your breath right before you do, just for a second.

Yo merk,

haven't read this thread in a while, been away on holidays for quite some time in India! I'm glad to be back and getting back into the singing. Your thread has been a great help but I think to take the next step I really need some private lessons so am most likely gonna get some lessons from the people at [url]www.voxsingingschool.com[/url] .. so cheers for what you've done for me til now.

I don't know if you're familiar with Dream Theater, but I've just gotten into them recently. They're a prog metal band incorporating all sorts of influences (heavy and soft). It's great stuff - each member is known to be a master of their respective instrument. If you can, listen to the vocalist, James LaBrie. He sounds a bit like Bruce Dickinson. Here's a clip of their most famous song live, [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqXE4Ery8Ko[/url]

He has an unbelievable range, as demonstrated on this video from the 2min 30 sec mark onwards (although in other songs he goes even higher - holding lofty notes such as E5 in head for 5-6 seconds). I know he's had training, but would you suggest that he was largely blessed with a vocal setup that is 1 in a few thousand? I'm guessing no matter how much I trained I wouldn't be able to get anywhere near those notes, right (in head, anyway)?

Check out LaBrie's WinterRose stuff. It was a hair band he was in, but it's probably his best singing. He took lessons from a woman named Mary Elizabeth Burns before he began his career, so he had operatic training. Then in 1994 he ruptured a vocal cord when he was puking from food poisoning. In 2003, he retrained with a woman named Victoria Thompson and now he is honestly singing better than ever.

So obviously hes had quite a bit of training, and has been singing since he was 10 I believe in talent shows. Most people hate his voice but he is by far my favorite singer. If you get enough proper training, you can sing the stuff he does. I would take online lessons from Jaime Vendera (who he is friends with and endorses) or video lessons from Mark Baxter instead of the one site your thinking of. Both would actually be personalized to you and both will teach you a lot of methods to get your voice to be able to sing stuff like LaBrie does.

[QUOTE=adz_18;13879227]Yo merk,

haven't read this thread in a while, been away on holidays for quite some time in India! I'm glad to be back and getting back into the singing. Your thread has been a great help but I think to take the next step I really need some private lessons so am most likely gonna get some lessons from the people at [url]www.voxsingingschool.com[/url] .. so cheers for what you've done for me til now.

I don't know if you're familiar with Dream Theater, but I've just gotten into them recently. They're a prog metal band incorporating all sorts of influences (heavy and soft). It's great stuff - each member is known to be a master of their respective instrument. If you can, listen to the vocalist, James LaBrie. He sounds a bit like Bruce Dickinson. Here's a clip of their most famous song live, [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqXE4Ery8Ko[/url]

He has an unbelievable range, as demonstrated on this video from the 2min 30 sec mark onwards (although in other songs he goes even higher - holding lofty notes such as E5 in head for 5-6 seconds). I know he's had training, but would you suggest that he was largely blessed with a vocal setup that is 1 in a few thousand? I'm guessing no matter how much I trained I wouldn't be able to get anywhere near those notes, right (in head, anyway)?[/QUOTE]
I agree with Auz. Go with Vendera or Mark. As far as who can sing who, its just purely up in the air and you have to remember what range youre born with. If youre a bass theres only so much you can do as far as high notes but you can master your bass voice. There are plenty of tenors who wish they could get a little lower. Venderra and others claim that you can sing in true voice any note that you can get in falsetto. While theoretically I think its possible, It takes a ton of work and dedication. Its easier to be able to hold a not or two but to be able to maneuver runs of words outside of your range is a bltch in true voice. But I think everyone can surprise themselves especially if you remember that youre probably gonna be using a mic and you can push way way way less than you probably think you need to. And once you get that with being able to relax the throat while singing you'll really grow. I would suggest you take a few personal lessons first, If you have anyone near you, even if they are just classical operatic. You will learn a lot. Then go with something based on rock or more aggressive stuff.

Hey Auz, Merkaba, do either of you guys have your head voices down well enough to make it indistinguishable from your chest up top? You know, like a big wide strong palette(where the highs don't lose that chesty tone)? I'd really like to hear it, I've heard it's possible but I haven't actually HEARD it done properly. You guys know any good exercises to beef up the head voice (and get by the break?)

Thank ya sirs.

[QUOTE=PDOGG;13887342]Hey Auz, Merkaba, do either of you guys have your head voices down well enough to make it indistinguishable from your chest up top? You know, like a big wide strong palette(where the highs don't lose that chesty tone)? I'd really like to hear it, I've heard it's possible but I haven't actually HEARD it done properly. You guys know any good exercises to beef up the head voice (and get by the break?)

Thank ya sirs.[/QUOTE]

To me head voice is true voice, high pitch and chest is true voice low pitch. Falsetto is non true voice. You can add resonance to falsetto so that it sounds like head especially in your lower falsetto. The higher you go up in falsetto the harder it is and the more forced/pinched(bad) sounding it will become. Some people refer to head as falsetto. But its all the same. If your cords are not together(falsetto) youre not gonna get the same sound as when they are together(true voice head and chest), by definition. The terms head and chest are points of resonance, meaning that the vibrations from the note will be felt in the chest and move up to head due to some science of the frequency and how it vibrates your body, namely the areas that are filled with air like your chest(lungs) and your nasal and head sinuses(head). With falsetto you dont get the same frequency power and you dont get the resonance. You can learn to hold a falsetto note with more resonance than usual but meneuvering and doing runs and melodies is gonna sound forced if youre out of range,I dont care who you are.

See page one of this thread.

Oh I know exactly what head voice is, but I've also been told that the break between chest voice and head voice can be managed by relaxing and that head voice can sound very big and full like chest voice (Mark Baxter talks about this alot)


I know well the difference between registers, but I have little control over my break between chest voice and head voice and my head voice tone is complete crap. How do I build the head voice tone and bypass the break is basically my question.


My main issue is that I haven't heard it for myself. Or at least I hadn't. Check this guy out: Robert Lunte

[url]www.myspace.com/tvsvox[/url]


In the vid, his first student shown has an incredible sounding head voice (as well as the bigger guy with the glasses in the middle). He's shown later in the video doing scales into and out of his head voice. He maintains a CONVERSATIONAL tone, which is what I'm going for. Lunte talks about about head voice adduction, what in the world is that, and how is it done?

I have Lunte's system and have talked to him quite a bit and he considers me a virtual student of the Vocalist Studio. He teaches the technqiue used by Geoff Tate of Queensryche, and the Wilson sisters from Heart. Most of them are the exact exercises (he basically took over teacher Maestro David Kyle's methods when he died, which is who taught Tate and Wilson).

Head Voice adduction is bringing the cords together, which is what you do to access head voice. Nothing new, he just has different approaches from some teachers to get you there. The system is pretty expensive obviously, but if you can afford it or some online lessons or phone consultations, i'd do that. Basically though, adduction is just the process of bringing the cords together or "zipping them up". To be in head voice though, you are adducting; if you weren't you would be in falsetto.

Baxter and Vendera are the 2 best in the world as far as im concerned though. I've been working with Baxter through video lessons since 2003 and will start lessons with Vendera in a few weeks. If nothing else, pick up Jaime's Raise Your Voice book and all of Baxter's products.

For getting into head voice, Baxter likes to keep everything neutral and very much at the same volume at first to build a voice that changes registers reflexively. Once you've got the freedom and control down, you start adducting through various exercises (my favorite is working on stacatto vowels like HE on triplets). If you get Robert's stuff, he focuses a lot on strengthening the cricothyroid muscles in your throat to adduct. If you are made of money, get stuff from all 3. If not, get Jaime's ebook on screaminglessons.com and Mark's stuff on getsigned.

[QUOTE=PDOGG;13894093]Oh I know exactly what head voice is, but I've also been told that the break between chest voice and head voice can be managed by relaxing and that head voice can sound very big and full like chest voice (Mark Baxter talks about this alot)


I know well the difference between registers, but I have little control over my break between chest voice and head voice and my head voice tone is complete crap. How do I build the head voice tone and bypass the break is basically my question.


My main issue is that I haven't heard it for myself. Or at least I hadn't. Check this guy out: Robert Lunte

[url]www.myspace.com/tvsvox[/url]


In the vid, his first student shown has an incredible sounding head voice (as well as the bigger guy with the glasses in the middle). He's shown later in the video doing scales into and out of his head voice. He maintains a CONVERSATIONAL tone, which is what I'm going for. Lunte talks about about head voice adduction, what in the world is that, and how is it done?[/QUOTE]

Ok....well auz's reply seems to suffice, and I have a few things in the power and flexibility and finding head voice links on page one. It just seemed like you were confusing head with falsetto which seems to be the norm around here. As far as the break goes(from chest to head and head to falsetto), it will usually boil down to one or two notes where you 'll naturally feel a need to transition. You should know these, map them out, and do lots of exercises around them ascending and decending. I suggest light volume and push and trying to relax everything you can, including your anus( which really can lead to increased tension allover, seriously. I suggest you do a check here and there and see how often you've got it clenched, you might be surprised)

Abduct/ion think kids or alien abduction: The act of taking away,pulling apart

Adduct/ion think Add: The act of bringing together. The adduction of the cords brings them together(true voice) so that you can get a nice waveform with resonation. What auz is saying is that sometimes people lack strength/coordination/technique,etc to keep this adduction as the cricothyroid joint pulls them tighter and tighter(higher in pitch). Or yea, zipping them up, together= adduction. Lots of words flying around but thats the difference between falsetto and head really, as auz pointed out.

Raise Your voice is in the mail on the way as we speak, and I already have Baxter's book. Baxter's book was good stuff but the head voice thing was the one topic I felt it didn't touch on nearly enough

Hey Auz, how is the head voice thing going for you based on all this research and training? Can you make a smooth transition and get your head voice meaty so that you can't tell the difference once you switch over? Can you do runs and phrases and stuff in it and still get power? How about you Merkaba?


I guess my concern here, is how in the hell do I get a transition like that guy in the video? That was basically flawless and exactly the type of thing I want in my own voice, what methods would you guys suggest I go about doing to attain that?


Oh and, what's this crycothyroid strengthening business that lunte teaches? What kind of exercises does he use to go about doing that?

I'm always working on my head voice. For a long time I wasn't able to access it at all, but then I started focusing on it and strengthening it. Basically, on most days I CAN get into it and do the stuff I want to do, which is usually either R&B (Stevie Wonder) or Metal (Queensryche, Priest, Helloween, etc.). I can't always do full songs up in a key just above my passagio unless I am fully warmed up. As long as you drill all the exercises you have and stay focused, you can and will be able to sing basically anything after a while. But, as soon as you slip on your technique and lose a little focus or even something as small as not drink enough water one day, your head voice will always suffer. Thats because they have to thin out and adduct a very certain way to access head voice. Pushing in the lower range too much or being dry from not enough water is going to cause some swelling. That extra swelling will prevent the thinning out/adduction process. There is a way around that which is to sing scales on the vowel EE and do lip trills to thin everything out again.

The guy in the video does basically the exercises found on the CD. I don't think Robert really teaches many scales outside of whats on his CD method judging from the DVDs, but i'm not really sure. Basically, just doing exercises with focus on seamless transisitions through the passagio then working on placing the tone in the head cavities once you get above the break is helpful. A good thing to try to remember as far as placement is to get rasp, you try to direct the tone to the soft pallate. If it kind of scrapes off of it like Merkaba says, then your getting a good rasp. For a strong and resonant head voice, try to place and feel it on the hard pallate. Thats directly behind the teeth and its good if your teeth buzz too.

I have the original version of Rob's book/CD, plus a video lesson on CD, and the ebook version of the new updated book. If you want to buy it you can email me at [email]firehouse108@hotmail.com[/email]. It's basically the same thing but without the two new DVDs. The first DVD is him doing an exercise followed by a student doing the exercise. The 2nd DVD is basically just some tips and clips of him and his students singing songs.

Hey Merkaba!

If your screaming correctly, is it normal for there to be some discomfort and by about 20 minutes of screaming have that coughy-tingling feeling in your front for a couple of hours? Or does this mean your screaming the wrong way?

I can kind of scream if I feel like I push a little harder, and add a bit more throat. The only thing is there is a little discomfort, but doesnt affect my singing voice during or after. Also, if I do this and start to run out of breathe.. The scream turns into a constipated sounding person or a surfer.. But I usually dont.
This way of screaming, I find it near enough impossible to get a scream and hold it.. you know like "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH". Just sounds gutteral.

If I try and scream entirely from the gut its either - really quiet or - a load of air comes out. If I try regulating how much air im pushing out of my gut, out of my mouth, it doesnt really make a difference.. its not like im just giving it an all out push. I think im doing it wrong somewhere.

Im gunna wait for this new ZOS to come out, I really cant get my head around how to scream.

Ill upload some files if it helps.
Thanks.

[QUOTE=hectiK;13903372]Hey Merkaba!

If your screaming correctly, is it normal for there to be some discomfort and by about 20 minutes of screaming have that coughy-tingling feeling in your front for a couple of hours? Or does this mean your screaming the wrong way?

I can kind of scream if I feel like I push a little harder, and add a bit more throat. The only thing is there is a little discomfort, but doesnt affect my singing voice during or after. Also, if I do this and start to run out of breathe.. The scream turns into a constipated sounding person or a surfer.. But I usually dont.
This way of screaming, I find it near enough impossible to get a scream and hold it.. you know like "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH". Just sounds gutteral.

If I try and scream entirely from the gut its either - really quiet or - a load of air comes out. If I try regulating how much air im pushing out of my gut, out of my mouth, it doesnt really make a difference.. its not like im just giving it an all out push. I think im doing it wrong somewhere.

Im gunna wait for this new ZOS to come out, I really cant get my head around how to scream.

Ill upload some files if it helps.
Thanks.[/QUOTE]

No you should never feel like you have to cough, get that tingly feeling ( I know what you mean)or feel any pain or discomfort. Youre pinching your larynx too much and just overblowing if you feel this. Be sure youre warming up at least for five minutes or more. I cant stress enough that normal singing and practicing is the best way to get in touch with how it feels to keep the larynx open and knowing just how little air you need for a good note. A scream is not much more air than normal once you can get the rasp, or "heat" as Melissa would say. Hopefully her new CD will be better.

Thanks, I tryed your advice and made sure the air was inflating my tummy and not the chest, but it still doesnt work. Just comes out as air or a high pitched sound which sounds like a cat dying.

merkaba, im am trying to do the growling voice, and i have it, but i end up doing it a bit too much and a scratchy pain in my throat happens, how can i prevent this, and also how cna i not sound like im pushing at all while singing raspy? thanx

[QUOTE=tehultimatepwn;13983096]merkaba, im am trying to do the growling voice, and i have it, but i end up doing it a bit too much and a scratchy pain in my throat happens, how can i prevent this, and also how cna i not sound like im pushing at all while singing raspy? thanx[/QUOTE]

Try singing the same passages in a normal singing voice. Have you dont this yet?

As Merk said, try singing the same parts in a normal singing voice, but try to do it with the same pitch as the growl, and do it for like 15 minutes straight beforehand.

Make sure when you're doing the growl that your throat is open, you might be creating the rasp soley with your throat.

Don't slack on the warm-up as I've been lately, it's no good.

i am a bit confused about screaming. from what i have read you are suppose to use falsetto during a scream to minimize dmg, but in order to add tone to a scream you have to use your vocal folds. so how am i suppose to use falsetto and add true voice to it at the same time?

[QUOTE=Merkaba;13984387]Try singing the same passages in a normal singing voice. Have you dont this yet?[/QUOTE]

ya i can sing it in normal singing voice perfectly and it sounds great, but i wanna add rasp do just little sections, like in fade to black by metallica right before the chorus, and it sound like im pushing too hard, too much air is coming out.

It sounds like too much air is coming out because thats exactly whats happening. What you are doing is pushing extra air through the cords, and that extra air is creating whatever rasp you are getting, if any. What you need to do is use no more breath than you do when your speaking, push down like going to the restroom, and make sure you are placing the sound in your soft pallate, the soft part of the roof of your mouth. If you do continue to send up extra air, always place it to the soft pallate. This will keep the air from drying out the cords, and it will keep you from any general strain. Play around the with amount of push you need, but make sure the push is always coming from below (like using the bathroom) and not from the throat.

[QUOTE=kdash;13988764]i am a bit confused about screaming. from what i have read you are suppose to use falsetto during a scream to minimize dmg, but in order to add tone to a scream you have to use your vocal folds. so how am i suppose to use falsetto and add true voice to it at the same time?[/QUOTE]

You can use falsetto if thats the sound you are going for, and not if it isn't. Falsetto is just another register produced by the vocal cords. Basically, sing whatever note it is you want to scream cleanly first, then start adding some downwards pressure as if you are using the restroom, and sending the tone/breath to the soft pallate. Eventually you'll get a perfect balance and start sounding how you want to.

So, ok I've been doing better, I've been practicing a lot. I'm not amazing yet, but I'm pretty excited about the progress I've made already. One thing tho, what tips do you guys have on building better intonation? I mean its one thing to work with a tuner, or sing notes from a piano, but what about when you sing live? I can tell when I am not singing the right note (obviously an A# is not in the key of A ;) ) but I have trouble telling if I am singing the semi-tone right under a 440hz A. Any tips you people can give me? I have Brett Manning's Singing Success, and I also have Jaime Vanderas Raise Your Voice. Brett didn't mention intonation at all (I'm assuming he believes that with practice of good technique that intonation will come) and Jaime had a few tips, but I didn't find it that helpful. I'm looking for excercises I can practice like, say in the car, where I don't have access to a tuner or pitch wheel.

Don't work on intonation exercises in your car. Just if you have a guitar, piano, whatever, do chromatic scales. Start on Middle C (C4) and slide sing one note at a time going downscale until you reach C3. Keep doing this until you have covered your whole range. It will build muscle memory and your cords will start getting used to the feeling of each note. Always record yourself and listen back to make sure everything is actually in tune. Also, then just pick random notes on a keyboard or guitar, and sing them. Once you can sing them dead on you are doing pretty well, most people will sing it either a tiny bit flat or sharp then slide just a bit to get it right. You need to work on just hitting it dead on from the beginning. Melissa Cross teaches this in her DVD

[QUOTE=Screamin_Demon_Auz;13990536]You can use falsetto if thats the sound you are going for, and not if it isn't. Falsetto is just another register produced by the vocal cords. Basically, sing whatever note it is you want to scream cleanly first, then start adding some downwards pressure as if you are using the restroom, and sending the tone/breath to the soft pallate. Eventually you'll get a perfect balance and start sounding how you want to.[/QUOTE]

i was just under the impression that using head voice would be too damaging for the vocal cords, since there is a lot more pressure compared to falsetto because the cords have to adduct.

No, the adduction process isn't damaging unless you do it wrong, which would be shouting at top volume just to get a note. You can choose to shout stylistically (as long as you support it correctly, and place the tone above the throat) but if you HAVE to do it by default because a lack of skill then its damaging.

Falsetto
 

I have been having difficulty in making falsetto....I just don't really know what to do and my singing teacher is a girl and can't really help me
I am 14 years old and singing vocals in a succesful rock band
Can anyone help?

Just because your teacher is a girl really shouldn't mean that she can't teach you falsetto. Vocal cords are the same thing in men and women, just different sizes. Women have a falsetto too. Your larynx is growing because you are going through puberty im sure because of your age and inability to sing in falsetto easily. Your cords are getting thicker which is lowering your voice, making it harder for them to stretch and thin to produce falsetto. Just keep doing scales, and after you are warmed up start imitating singers who use falsetto. To get it started, do some really light scales on EE (as in see) pretty high up. Its ok if its breathy right now, you are just trying to discover your falsetto. Then, sing along LIGHTLY to prince,the darkness, queen (especially the beginning of bohemian rhapsody), seal (kiss from a rose), the beach boys, whatever as long as it has some good falsetto.

Can you teach yourself how to sing? That's my question.
I'm a self taught guitar player and drummer of a couple years now and I'm (without bragging) always looked up and mentioned by friends and such when it comes down to instruments.

But one thing I've never tried but always have wanted to be able to do is sing. So I've been sort of working on it lately. I have a good ear so I can pick up notes and mimic styles quite easily, and to me some things I "sing" sound fine but I've never tried singing to anyone else to have their opinion because I always figured it was all in my mind and I probably sucked in reality.

So the other day I was in the basement waiting for my band to arrive, and I was singing/playing Alice In Chain's Nutshell acousticly. My band walks in without me noticing (which is good because I'm shy. so I didnt notice and kept singing loud) and they were freaking out asking me when I learned how to sing and where that came from.

Needless to say I was pumped about it, but then again.. that IS a really easy song to sing sort of.. and, I WAS just mimicing someones voice not knowing what the hell I was actually singing and just trying to be in tune with my guitar..

But since then, I've been wondering.. is it possible to teach yourself how to sing? have any of you guys? I know a couple people but it's always like "my dad was a singer" or "my uncle was in a band and gave me some tips"

if it IS possible, how should I go on about this whole thing?

any help/replies are appreciated, sorry for the goddamn long post haha

I wouldn't recommend it. Take at least a few lessons, just to get rid of any bad habits and learn things about your voice that you didn't know, and go from there if you'd like.

Oh trust me, I'd LOVE to have lessons. But I just can't right now, between work and almost graduating school, and my band, and all this other **** in my life, there's no way I can have it right now. And that's where the whole question is coming from.

I did take 2 classes a couple months ago, and all I learned was breathing and posture and some exercises and I was totally pumped about it. I wish I could've kept going to it but it just didn't work out.