I am noticing that when I get to a certain point on some vowells (specifically ee and i) my voice starts cracking and I can't really produce the notes without getting some nasty gravelly tone.

Like if I am running through a C major scale vocally I will get something like. (keep in mind when I say clean I am saying the notes are comming out perfectly, as I am recording this stuff and they are perfectly on key)

C (ee - clean) D ( ee - clean) E (ee - clean) F ( ee - clean) G ( ee - starts breaking up a little bit, like I can't find the note, but still get it) A ( ee - can't find the note, voice breaking up like hell) etc

does anyone know why this is happening?

It only happens when I go up the scale, when I just start on an A, I hear myself harmonizing with it perfectly, I am thinking I might actually be harmonizing a 5th below, instead of hitting the note and this might be why it sounds in tune, but it is not actually an A I am hitting.

Is this a product of faulty breath control (to much or to little air going over my vocal chords)?

How high up the scale are you when you start to break? pretty high? or mid ? and are you saying that if you start on that same note first that you can hit it? if so it could be you not having enough fleixibility to keep the cords in shape after coming from another shape, especially if its higher because the cords are thinner and theres less surface area for them to connect and form the shape for that vowel. And with practice there will be realizations of certain pressure changes you might need to make for you best sound. E's are the only vowel that makes the cords come completely closed as part of the vibratory pattern. So dont over push on e's. be sure youre relaxing the throat as well and not squeezing it as you go up in pitch thinking that these muslce contractions are part of the cord contractions. this is very very very common and could explain why you can start off on the note but not rise up to it. keep us posted.

[QUOTE=Merkaba-1]How high up the scale are you when you start to break? pretty high? or mid ? and are you saying that if you start on that same note first that you can hit it? if so it could be you not having enough fleixibility to keep the cords in shape after coming from another shape, especially if its higher because the cords are thinner and theres less surface area for them to connect and form the shape for that vowel. And with practice there will be realizations of certain pressure changes you might need to make for you best sound. E's are the only vowel that makes the cords come completely closed as part of the vibratory pattern. So dont over push on e's. be sure youre relaxing the throat as well and not squeezing it as you go up in pitch thinking that these muslce contractions are part of the cord contractions. this is very very very common and could explain why you can start off on the note but not rise up to it. keep us posted.[/QUOTE]

dude this totally makes sense

I think I am trying too hard to push the sound out when I go up the scale. As I find myself searching for the note that fits, I notice that I generally try to put more effort into it for these specific vowels.

Yes, when I start on the note I can hit it, but not when I build up to it through the scale.

I can't even get a full octave with the EE, and I , but with other ones, like O, I can cleanly get out an 1.5 octaves up. So yes, I am pretty high up the scale when the notes start to break.. Like starting on low C, I can only get up to about G without breaking up and getting off tone.

BTW, as reference tones I am starting at the lowest C on my keyboard, which is a 64 key.

I am already noticing changes in my range through trial and error. For instance, a couple of days ago I couldn't get to a full octave doing the O, but yesterday I realized I might have been exerting to much air, so I calmed down a little bit, filled up my lungs, and tried pushing from my stomach slowly. I was then able to hit 1.5 octaves up!

So I think alot of this will come to me through trial and error, as I find the right amount of air to produce the notes.

luckily I am able to tell when I am on key and off, and that is being a big help. :thumb:

yea, the higher you go, the thinner the cords, so less pressure is needed. practice doing glisses. Up and down. Start your lowest note and just slide up to your highest even through falseto. But try to keep the cords together for as long as you can before you go into falsetto. This helps you strenghten a little bit, but keeps you in touch with your break where you go from head to falsetto. Because you can get away with more push in falsetto but in head it can fatigue the edges of the cords.

So yea keep practicing and listen to your voice and pay attention to the feel as much as the sound. This is where you really can learn what to do with the cords. The feel and pressures of the notes. Technically you should be able to make any vowel at the same pitch . So do upward glisses and downward glisses. do them with each vowel and be SURE that you can do them without changing volume as you go up. This is very important. as it helps you learn isolation. you should be able to make it in a smooth slide with no interruption or loss of quality. It will take a shift in feel and pressure as you go to falsetto and coming down from falsetto. When doing a downward gliss, start in your highest falsetto and come down to your lowest chest. Work to keep it clean as you come from falsetto to head. And remember to relax everything as do it. Remember the cords are horizontal so youre actually pulling them across your throat, not up. this can help you keep your larynx low. I still use this visualization to help me alot.

[QUOTE=Merkaba-1]yea, the higher you go, the thinner the cords, so less pressure is needed. practice doing glisses. Up and down. Start your lowest note and just slide up to your highest even through falseto. But try to keep the cords together for as long as you can before you go into falsetto. This helps you strenghten a little bit, but keeps you in touch with your break where you go from head to falsetto. Because you can get away with more push in falsetto but in head it can fatigue the edges of the cords.

So yea keep practicing and listen to your voice and pay attention to the feel as much as the sound. This is where you really can learn what to do with the cords. The feel and pressures of the notes. Technically you should be able to make any vowel at the same pitch . So do upward glisses and downward glisses. do them with each vowel and be SURE that you can do them without changing volume as you go up. This is very important. as it helps you learn isolation. you should be able to make it in a smooth slide with no interruption or loss of quality. It will take a shift in feel and pressure as you go to falsetto and coming down from falsetto. When doing a downward gliss, start in your highest falsetto and come down to your lowest chest. Work to keep it clean as you come from falsetto to head. And remember to relax everything as do it. Remember the cords are horizontal so youre actually pulling them across your throat, not up. this can help you keep your larynx low. I still use this visualization to help me alot.[/QUOTE]

I will definetely start doing glisses. I have been reading your other posts, and doing lots of research on singing, and voice in general. I actually realized last night that I need to keep a kind of decrease the pressure as I go in the direction from chest to head voice. I was actually able to get my I and E up a note past a full octave before it started comming apart.

I am still working on designing a very good plan to becomming a great singer. I must thank you again, because alot of the stuff I am using from the plan is comming from your posts

Does coffee have any effect on the vocal cords?

Oh yes. Now its something that might not be readily noticed, and depends on your style. But the caffeine is a diuretic just like alcohol. It makes you lose water. This is part of the reason why people drink it. Especially if you drink it first thing in the morning. Youre already dehydrated so you take in caffeine which makes you lose water. it pretty much offsets the water that makes up the content of the coffee. If youre dehydrated, it makes you feel icky and tired. So then people drink another cup for the pick me up of the caffeine, but once it wears off youre more dehydrated. The first place your body looks for extra water is the throat area. This is why you always hear "if youre thirsty, youre already dehydrated" common saying among athletes. or "if youre thirsty you needed to drink 20 minutes ago. It takes roughly 15 to 20 minutes for water to digest and get circulated to the cords. I mean moderation is a key if you "need" it. But overtime you could probably tell a difference between with and without caffeine. dryer cords leads to quicker irritation and swelling, which leads to quicker loss of range if not other worse things, not to mention quicker and more mucus.
Again, its a little nit picky and may not seem to be really that big a thing. But i have to give my best information that i can. The facts.

Apples are better for in the morning wake me ups.

This question may have already been addressed in which case I missed it, but anyways: My chest voice and falsetto are both pretty solid (need to practice singing from my gut for the lower ranges, but that is easy enough), however, I am having trouble switching between the two without a definite "break". I haven't asked my choir director how to get rid of the break because I just haven't, if that makes any sense. My question then is what exercises can I do to "mesh" my chest voice and falsetto so that I can more easily switch between the two?

Glissando
gliss. start at your lowest note (even if you dont have trouble down low, its a good exercise) and go up in pitch like a siren. one continuous slide at a regular volume. be sure not to affect the volume any as you do this slide. Then start at your highest falsetto and slide down to your lowest chest. Pay attention to the areas where you go from head to falsetto and vice versa. be sure to keep the pressure behind the cords from the gut and be sure you have a relaxed throat. Any tension will interrupt the airflow and stiffen the cords. over time you can find out your own points so you know where to shift to the next voice to have a proper note. Stay in tune with your body so you can feel when the cords naturally want to open up(going to falsetto) and close(coming down into head). YOu should be able to feel the difference. go more on that then sound and you'll do yourself a favor. Also do rising melodies staccato style. with a pause inbetween each note. This way you develop the muscle memory so that you automatically know which voice to use for the pitch youre singing when youre around the break. doing alot of glisses and quick runs on melodies helps you become more flexible so even if you start off in the wrong voice you can slide into the proper one. given that you have enough support behind the cords. (diaphragm). So relax while you do it, dont worry about the sound at first. And dont over push. especially as you get closer to falsetto. Hope this helps some.

2 quick questions


1. how long should one practice for at first? I have been trying to get in 1-3 hours a day. I noticed yesterday that my vocal chord area was feeling a little tender and slightly sore. I have been keeping them in exellent health otherwise, and my warmups are very thorough. Also I have yet to do anything with more than 60% push.

2. I am starting vocal lessons next saturday. Will 2x a month be good? they are expensive, but if it would help much more to do weekly I would do that. Also, my teacher is a female soprano classically trained singer. Will this help me alot in singing rock music, as I am a baritone. I don't know if this is like comparing apples to oranges or what...

You'll have to figure that out. Your cords shouldnt get sore. Thats what I've been trained. some people say a little is ok. But i dont. Just be careful and listen to your body. Warm down as well. no affect to the speaking voice. THat means youre really swollen.

Any amount of vocal lessons will help. But dont be afraid to move to a different teacher after a while if you feel like your current one isnt helping you. It will take time though. It would help to get a rock oriented teacher. But you can still learn alot about technique. I would say do both. or try to.

Merk, can you post some samples of warming down........you know, you were talking about warming down with eeeeeeeeeee's and etc. but they don't help me much. So I thought I'm doing 'em wrong. Can you post some warmdown samples? :)

Thanks again,

Hey Merkaba, I need some help finding a good harmony to sing.

The song My Sharona is too high for my voice... it's pretty much an F sang the whole song... so I'm looking for a lower note to sing in it's place. You mentioned something about this technique of singing a lower note in harmony with the original one if the original is too high. I currently sing the F an octive lower, but it sounds bad, and takes away from the song. What note should I sing, and how can I find good harmonies to notes in future songs?

Thanks a lot

[QUOTE=btoto]Merk, can you post some samples of warming down........you know, you were talking about warming down with eeeeeeeeeee's and etc. but they don't help me much. So I thought I'm doing 'em wrong. Can you post some warmdown samples? :)

Thanks again,[/QUOTE]

Well its not really something you would readily notice helping. Its just good to bring your cords back down to a retatively unstretched position before you call it quits. You start in your highest falsetto and then come down to your lowest chest. I do this with all vowels for about two minutes. Then i just do some low notes, and then regular eeee's. But how do you figure they arent helping you? are you keeping irritated or stiff mucus covered cords?

I'm having software problems but i'll try to get some stuff up soon.

[QUOTE=JuicyFruitGuy]Hey Merkaba, I need some help finding a good harmony to sing.

The song My Sharona is too high for my voice... it's pretty much an F sang the whole song... so I'm looking for a lower note to sing in it's place. You mentioned something about this technique of singing a lower note in harmony with the original one if the original is too high. I currently sing the F an octive lower, but it sounds bad, and takes away from the song. What note should I sing, and how can I find good harmonies to notes in future songs?

Thanks a lot[/QUOTE]
I think it was sliver actually that was talking more about harmony. I was saying just drop the song a half step or a whole note. All i could say is to look into the triad like F,A,C. But if its a song that shifts keys or has some awkward or funny improvisation it will depend on what notes make up the melody. This is kinda getting intor music theory which i cant do justice to by trying to explain. I would bet that it would sound better and more authentic if you just dropped the whole song down so the intervals stay the same. I think it will sound off if you just do a note in harmony but noone is doing the root note. If noone is singing the F or the note in question then i would suggest dropping the song down.
Any one else have any opinions?

[QUOTE=Merkaba-1]I think it was sliver actually that was talking more about harmony. I was saying just drop the song a half step or a whole note. All i could say is to look into the triad like F,A,C. But if its a song that shifts keys or has some awkward or funny improvisation it will depend on what notes make up the melody. This is kinda getting intor music theory which i cant do justice to by trying to explain. I would bet that it would sound better and more authentic if you just dropped the whole song down so the intervals stay the same. I think it will sound off if you just do a note in harmony but noone is doing the root note. If noone is singing the F or the note in question then i would suggest dropping the song down.
Any one else have any opinions?[/QUOTE]

I would say change the key of the song.

I find this really helps when doing certain songs that I just can't get my voice high enough to cleanly hit all the notes. For instance, I have my acoustic tuned to Eb, because I can hit the notes way better. I play this one song by Tears For Fears called Mad World. The song is in F#m, but I play it in Ebm - a whole 1.5 steps down! When I try playing in F#m, the lyrics come out okay, but they sound forced, however, when I play in Ebm, the song sounds good. I can create a good resonance with my voice, and I can stay in tune the whole song.

There are several songs I couldn't even dare playing without tuning down.

something else I am finding that helps is to sing a little lower, for instance, if you are singing a F chord, but can't hit it, try dropping down to the 5th below - C, or even the 3rd A. If it isn't working still, just transpose the song down untill you can find something in your range...

Thanks a lot for the help guys. :) I do tune down in other songs or change the chords to a key or so lower, but in this case, it would be a hassle to do for this song. I'll try out the C and the A and see how it sounds.

EDIT: I don't suppose this would change anything, but while I sing the F, a G is being played on guitar and bass, not an F to match the singing, as some people might assume. Would this effect the notes I could sing in harmony? Or would it still be the C and the A...

[QUOTE=JuicyFruitGuy]Thanks a lot for the help guys. :) I do tune down in other songs or change the chords to a key or so lower, but in this case, it would be a hassle to do for this song. I'll try out the C and the A and see how it sounds.

EDIT: I don't suppose this would change anything, but while I sing the F, a G is being played on guitar and bass, not an F to match the singing, as some people might assume. Would this effect the notes I could sing in harmony? Or would it still be the C and the A...[/QUOTE]


I didn't quite understand what you said there

Just don't listen to the guitars

Hey I got a question...

I've been trying to sing like AC/DC for awhile now, I always thought it was just a falsetto voice

I'm right, right? But It seems like he falsetto screams everything...I'm having some trouble in that area...

To explain how it's working out for me-
I can get at the same volume and note as him in all their songs, but when I attempt to add some rasp, my voice breaks in a sense. My voice becomes somewhat bubbly in sound...I'm probably doing something wrong, and I thought I should just ask you

You should try to add more of a feeling of head and not just falsetto. Mix it. This is referred to as powerfalsetto. it should feel like youre singing both types at the same time. it will give you more support.

Think about adding rasp while coming down in volume. You might be trying to push more to help get the rasp. You should be able to rasp at lower volume as well if you have a relaxed throat. And it doesnt take much pulling to get the rasp. Whenever you run into problems backing off can help you find more of what you need to do. relax and come down in volue and push and try to get the sound.

BUt again, we know what can happen by trying to sing like someone else. Be careful. If you dont have enough experience to know how to get the sound, you need to ease into it. If you can hit the notes, theres no reason you cant rasp it. So keep practicing until you get it. just pull down a bit in the back of the throat and relax. if you dont already , put the tip of your tongue on your bottom teeth. let it relax there. rais the cheekbones. keep practicing.

why do you wanna sound like ac/dc's singer anyways
he has one of the most unpleasant singing voices ever

[QUOTE=Rats]why do you wanna sound like ac/dc's singer anyways
he has one of the most unpleasant singing voices ever
[B]In my opinion[/B][/QUOTE]
Fixed :thumb:

Oh also, thanks Merkaba, I'll try out that stuff next chance I get.
I'm looking into vocal lessons, so I should be getting this stuff down soon enough.

hey merkabalaba
I wanted to know how to get more body, in my screams? I mean... More bottom end.. Or something like that. My screams sound so empty.

[url]http://s2.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=CAFD5E053442A8F8292A52094193799F[/url] here's a clip of my scream.. ... .. oh, and if it sounds like I'm doing something wrong, please do tell. hehe

Clarification'd!
 

How exactly do you pull on the back of your throat to make the rasp of the fallseto screams? I'm not sure if I am doing it right, how much movement of the larnyx is natural and how much would be an indication that I am using my cords to make the rasp and not simply air?

Oh, and just for the record:

Thou kickest the, as they say, ***.

This topic has helped me realize that well I have been singing wrong and sucked at it in general but also that my vocal cords are sensitive little buggers that I need to take car of.

Thanks again man.

Hey Merkaba dude,
You have probable already said this a million times and im just to lazy to look for the post, but how do you sing through your gut? Right now i sing through my throat it sounds alright but i wanna be able to sing prople, cos right now i cant hold a note prople or anything, so if you have any advice on how to sing through your gut or any excercises to teach myself to do it that would be great.
Thanks dude...

pro-ple?

Hi , I am 13 and I have been interested in singing for a while. I have never been serious about it until now tho. My band wants me to sing while playing guitar , but i dont know how to sing that well. I been "trying" to teach myself.

If i post a clip of me singing a verse of two of a song and a scream do you think you can give me tip on how to make it better?

You havent read this forum have you?
you should.
Because : 1. You would already know many different ways to work on your voice
2. you would know that you can post and get some help. :thumb:

sing naturally and dont try to sound like anyone in particular when you start off.

[QUOTE=Los3rKid]Hey Merkaba dude,
You have probable already said this a million times and [bold]im just to lazy to look for the post[/bold], but how do you sing through your gut? Right now i sing through my throat it sounds alright but i wanna be able to sing prople, cos right now i cant hold a note prople or anything, so if you have any advice on how to sing through your gut or any excercises to teach myself to do it that would be great.
Thanks dude...[/QUOTE]
Well what if I'm just too lazy to rewrite it again? Hmmmmm???


Its one of the hardest things to succesfully describe. Dont overthink it though. You've done it before. Its simply using your diaphram to manipulate the pressure. If you cough or grunt youre using the same technique. Practice by taking a breathe in so that your stomach bellows out, your chest and shoulders shouldnt rise much at all, maybe a half inch at the end of a deep breath. Now slowly make an ssss sound. You should be able to hold it for at least thirty seconds. Practice making this into a zzzz sound. YOu can also feel as if youre getting ready to clear your throat but catch the pressure behind your cords. Now you dont need to push with that much intensity. But it is the feeling...THE FEELING of contracting the diaphragm....THE DIAPHRAGM.

WIth a little practice you learn how much you need for your singing and style. But its the feeling youre looking for. If you check out my samples i have a rasp lesson where i start off a rasped up falsetto scream and i remember doing the begining pressure a few times so that you can hear what it feels like, so to speak. you should check it out if you havent already. Again, once you learn how to use this it will still be easy, if not easier to overblow your cords. you will have TNT behind your cords and more of it. Be careful when playing with explosives. Once you get it down you will have alot of power, just dont abuse it. THe cords are always weaker than the lungs. Remember that. But dont be afraid of it either if youre looking to get stronger vocally. Your body is one hell of a machine if you take care of it, and it will give you warning if youre mucking it up.

[QUOTE=The Shareef]How exactly do you pull on the back of your throat to make the rasp of the fallseto screams? I'm not sure if I am doing it right, how much movement of the larnyx is natural and how much would be an indication that I am using my cords to make the rasp and not simply air?

Oh, and just for the record:

Thou kickest the, as they say, ***.

This topic has helped me realize that well I have been singing wrong and sucked at it in general but also that my vocal cords are sensitive little buggers that I need to take car of.

Thanks again man.[/QUOTE]
Its tricky. You will have to play around with it. Dont worry its not too foreign. You've done it before. if you take a regular push and pitch and try to snarl it like a dog. its the same thing. Now when you start to move up in pitch or learning to do it in falsetto verses head or chest it will take time to get an optimal feel because of the differences in air that pass through. too much throat and youre putting a cap of pressure over the cords which isnt good. this is why you have to have an open throat to get as much of a vent as you can when as youre blocking it off a little with the throat. And you will do yourself a favor if you get to where you understand the isolation of the cords from the throat so that you have an independent command of each. like a drummers feet and hands.

start in a mid chest tone and learn to rasp at a small push. this ensures you get the feel down more before you start adding extra pressure.

[QUOTE=Knifeboy]hey merkabalaba
I wanted to know how to get more body, in my screams? I mean... More bottom end.. Or something like that. My screams sound so empty.

[url]http://s2.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=CAFD5E053442A8F8292A52094193799F[/url] here's a clip of my scream.. ... .. oh, and if it sounds like I'm doing something wrong, please do tell. hehe[/QUOTE]
"Unfortunately, the link you have clicked is not available.
Reasons for this may include:

Invalid link
Use only the link that was generated by YouSendIt and mailed to the recipient. All other links will not be recognized. Please check to make sure that your email client did not break the link up over multiple lines. You may need to reconstruct the link manually by cutting and pasting all components into your web browser's address bar"

[QUOTE=Diseasedcow]Fixed :thumb:

Oh also, thanks Merkaba, I'll try out that stuff next chance I get.
I'm looking into vocal lessons, so I should be getting this stuff down soon enough.[/QUOTE]
by the way, what the hell is that in your avatar? :confused: :lol:

thnks merkaba dude
haha sorry bout me being lazy, didnt mean to sound rude

[QUOTE=Merkaba-1]"Unfortunately, the link you have clicked is not available.
Reasons for this may include:

Invalid link
Use only the link that was generated by YouSendIt and mailed to the recipient. All other links will not be recognized. Please check to make sure that your email client did not break the link up over multiple lines. You may need to reconstruct the link manually by cutting and pasting all components into your web browser's address bar"[/QUOTE]

Darnit!...They must've changed their system.

[url]http://www.geocities.com/naijfboi/scream.mp3[/url] Right click save target as

gutteral?
 

i do like gutteral vocals.. like it burnt my throat like hell at first.. but i just kept going and the pain went away.. but is that bad for you? gutterals? and screamming? :confused:

If it hurts your cords it's bad for them. The thing is you might have simply been hurting the back of your throat with all the air, and not the cords so much. It would still be wise to still read up around this forum.

[QUOTE=Knifeboy]hey merkabalaba
I wanted to know how to get more body, in my screams? I mean... More bottom end.. Or something like that. My screams sound so empty.
[/QUOTE]

ok the second link works.

Yea, you sounded like you were about to run out of breath. I think you'll agree. Thats because youre not locking the pressure behind your cords. if youre not doing that then it makes no difference if you come from the gut or not. You've got to close the cords up, produce the sound first, and let this air then reflect off the throat area. You've got the cords open more i can tell that by the way it sounds and its the way i used to try when i started out. I would say check out my samples and listen to me start up that rasp. you can hear it catch and lock....then you either activate the cords to release the air or pass out. the air is locked up behind the cords and should need to be vented, like a pressure tank with your cords as the valve.

[QUOTE=Merkaba-1]ok the second link works.

Yea, you sounded like you were about to run out of breath. I think you'll agree. Thats because youre not locking the pressure behind your cords. if youre not doing that then it makes no difference if you come from the gut or not. You've got to close the cords up, produce the sound first, and let this air then reflect off the throat area. You've got the cords open more i can tell that by the way it sounds and its the way i used to try when i started out. I would say check out my samples and listen to me start up that rasp. you can hear it catch and lock....then you either activate the cords to release the air or pass out. the air is locked up behind the cords and should need to be vented, like a pressure tank with your cords as the valve.[/QUOTE]

Thanks alot :).. I really don't believe in rep points, but if anyone deserves them, it's you!.. Hehe

Y halo thar Markeba, okay I have another question.

I have the general feel down for a falsetto scream now but I get this obnoxious gargle when I do it and then when I finish it off there is some moisture at the base of throat but the rest of my throat is either dry or just fine.

Next, my throught hurts but that is possibly because I was doing it for well over two hours (stupid I know) and I didn't feel my larnyx move much so I assumed it was correct. I can still talk completely normal, but when I swallow there is a slight irritation (nothing really painful, just annoying and a little concerning).

So... yeah, if you can tell me what is going on with the moisture and the throat hurting. I am going to start warming up and down just to make sure this does not happen again.

Thanks again for the help! <_<

PS. The other post was extremely helpful and led me to the next step. I forgot to post a follow up one to thank you and I apologize for that.

Well I dont do it for the thank you so you dont have to apologize.
But i appreciate the concern.

well the larynx not moving much is good, but the pain isn't.
I dont really know what you mean by the base of the throat. If its right behind your adams apple its your cord area and you need to back off. If its up higher its probably irritation to the soft pallet, the back of the throat. If its moisture from hard singing its mucus. Its basic purpose is to protect and or lubricate. depending on where it occurs. Here it would be both. I would suggest you take it easy for a few days. How is the rest of your singing voice? be careful and dont over do it. You wont gain any faster than your body can put up with because of the offsetting damage done. However big or slight it may be.