Alright, so I apologize for leaving my main question out.

Basically, I seem to have two types of sections to scream with. I have this passage that leads to the growling stuff, and then there's another thing I can do that is sorta like...electronically staticky or something. The first one I mentioned I didn't discover till recently and I can make it go up and down easily, but the other one (the one that has an electronic-ish sound to it) can't get really loud at all.

I'm just wondering what's the difference?

It's hard to say with a description like that, to be blunt. You should post a recording if you can.

I know...it's hard for me to describe it sorry :(. Hmm..I'll try to get my microphone working soon. I might have some recordings by tomorrow, hopefully.

Thanks for your time so far >_<

Well like I say....theres really not much going on. Theres only one "passage". Go ahead and get that thought and it will help to simplify it. I'm willing to bet that your first technique is more correct. You should be able to do it low and ride it up through to your falsetto if need be, and you should be able to do it at close to any volume. Your second one, I'm betting is a higher tense larynx one that you might be over squeezing, kinda like thinking too much about the rasp and not about singing first. I think one of the most important things I usually stress is that you should practice singing first. A good scream has the same support and feel as a hard singing note, because it is. I'm not saying do only regular singing for six months first. I'm saying if there's trouble getting something, try to sing the note first. Pay attention to whether or not you have to strain to sing it normally, or if you have to scrunch up your face to reach for it. You should be able to hold a good operatic sounding tone,I say, if you want a good foundation for more push.

Yes you're right, the second one isn't natural and when I usually have to force it while singing it.

I've been working with the one that's natural for me alot lately, and yeah...anyway, thanks for making this thread ^_^ It helped alot.

I'll try to get some recordings as soon as I can.

Yep. Remember that, as far as I'm concerned, even the harshest SOUNDING vocals should still be comfortable and shouldnt feel irritating. Just keep practicing and when you run into trouble use your relaxed "opera" voice to try to reconcile your technique.

Hey Merk, I've become a decent screamer since reading ur lessons, but now my band wants to do rock instead of metal. I can sing with all the correct techniques, but what do I do to improve my tone? I really hate my singing voice...It sounds "teenagery", especially when I rasp. Is there a way to get rid of this or do I have to wait for my vocal cords to mature more?

How old are you?

If you know you've got decent technique, all you can do is be sure youre relaxed and opening up the throat. If youre say, less than 18, then it could just be your cords for now. Just make sure youre not squeezing and tensing any of your throat. Practice doing low O's and Ah'sand doing slow singing like you were in an opera.

I'm 17

I'm trying to get a slightly rasped tone, like avenged sevenfold or dave grohl, because my clean singing lacks punch... and one more question, would you suggest finding a band willing to do music my vocals are more geared for? I'm seeing very little improvement over the last month and a half over my rock singing voice, and basically wanna know if it's possible to even develop this or if you have to be born with it.

You dont have to be born with it....but youre only 17. Thats why you sound "teenagery". It could take a while for you to develop. Dont rush it. If you can post a sample it would help. Just keep practicing. If you cant get your normal singing voice to get some umph behind it, well....you need that for more agressive vocals naturally. Be sure you've got all the basics down. like breath support and isolation.

Hey, Merk

This is really cool. I've been thinking alot that I would like to scream, and now I found what I'm looking for. I would read it but its getting late and everybody in my house is trying to sleep.

Why isn't this stickied anymore?

Mods kinda switched some stuff around....I guess to have it a little cleaner looking. Its inside the Jams session threads sticky though.

Hey Merk,

I'm an aspiring singer (already play guitar) primarily in the rock/hair metal (Bon Jovi, Skid Row) department. Ihave a few questions- do you have any popular books you reccomend I buy for this style of singing? Also, how long would estimate it would take me to be accurate with pitch and to have a warm singing voice- (doesn't have to be perfect).

I practice singing scales on piano and breathing exercises from sliver at the moment. How long do you think I should practice a day and what things are the most important to practice and how much time for them?

I've looked through plenty of your posts Merk, and I appreciate all the help you've given everybody.

I didn't see anything regarding staying on key though. How does one improve this? When I sing along with something, I can stay on fairly well, but by myself with no reference notes, I'm f'd.

[QUOTE=Jandy]I've looked through plenty of your posts Merk, and I appreciate all the help you've given everybody.

I didn't see anything regarding staying on key though. How does one improve this? When I sing along with something, I can stay on fairly well, but by myself with no reference notes, I'm f'd.[/QUOTE]

This happens to me as well

I usually find myself singing too high or too low

I have to find a word I know and associate a note on the fretboard with it so I know where to start

[QUOTE=Phototropic]This happens to me as well

I usually find myself singing too high or too low

I have to find a word I know and associate a note on the fretboard with it so I know where to start[/QUOTE]

Yeah if I'm all alone I can't even sing mary had a little lamb. But my g/f hums a note in the car for me sometimes and I can match it right away, so I can't be tone-deaf, can I?

[QUOTE=Jandy]Yeah if I'm all alone I can't even sing mary had a little lamb. But my g/f hums a note in the car for me sometimes and I can match it right away, so I can't be tone-deaf, can I?[/QUOTE]

No

No way

Tone deaf people probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a high note and a low not

Just keep practising

I will :wave:

[QUOTE=On The Edge]Hey Merk,

I'm an aspiring singer (already play guitar) primarily in the rock/hair metal (Bon Jovi, Skid Row) department. Ihave a few questions- do you have any popular books you reccomend I buy for this style of singing? Also, how long would estimate it would take me to be accurate with pitch and to have a warm singing voice- (doesn't have to be perfect).

I practice singing scales on piano and breathing exercises from sliver at the moment. How long do you think I should practice a day and what things are the most important to practice and how much time for them?[/QUOTE]
Theres another thread with more recommended books in it...look around. I know Mark baxter's book is good...I cant even remember the name of it. I dont know of much literature though.

Estimates of how long? It wouldnt be fair to make any idea. Some people take forever some take overnight. All you can do is practice, and sing alot of acapella and record yourself so you can hear your progress and your true voice without the aid of your body cheating the sound into your brain.

How long should you practice a day? Ideally...I would say at least an hour. ten minutes is better than nothing though. The most important thing is breath control and cord isolation. You have to be able to support your air to keep a good tight flow through the cords, but you have to be able to sing without your larynx interfering.

[QUOTE=Jandy]I've looked through plenty of your posts Merk, and I appreciate all the help you've given everybody.

I didn't see anything regarding staying on key though. How does one improve this? When I sing along with something, I can stay on fairly well, but by myself with no reference notes, I'm f'd.[/QUOTE]
Keep singing by yourself. Accapella with no music. Its the best way because lots of times the music is a crutch to your development. It can throw off your technique and cause tension when one trys to listen then match. It should be a relative thing of feeling what you want next and not hearing it. The best way is through repetition, if you're not one of the "naturals" that just can do it almost automatically. But with practice you can develop a feel for the intervals you want to sing which makes it easier to stay on key in any key. You can do intervals on the piano or guitar. play one note at a time. Stop your voice before the next note so you dont slide up to it. Then do it faster and faster and do scales. But to me acappella singing in a relaxed environment is the best way to get the true feel of your voice, not sound. Its more about feeling. And be sure to relax.

and yea...true tone deafness is extremely rare. Now being able to sing on key is something different and it takes alot of coordination that some people just cant do readily. Kinda like juggling or something. Most people can do it but it takes work and time and repetition.

[QUOTE=Merkaba-1]
Keep singing by yourself. Accapella with no music. Its the best way because lots of times the music is a crutch to your development. It can throw off your technique and cause tension when one trys to listen then match. It should be a relative thing of feeling what you want next and not hearing it. The best way is through repetition, if you're not one of the "naturals" that just can do it almost automatically. But with practice you can develop a feel for the intervals you want to sing which makes it easier to stay on key in any key. You can do intervals on the piano or guitar. play one note at a time. Stop your voice before the next note so you dont slide up to it. Then do it faster and faster and do scales. But to me acappella singing in a relaxed environment is the best way to get the true feel of your voice, not sound. Its more about feeling. And be sure to relax.

and yea...true tone deafness is extremely rare. Now being able to sing on key is something different and it takes alot of coordination that some people just cant do readily. Kinda like juggling or something. Most people can do it but it takes work and time and repetition.[/QUOTE]


Thanks a lot merc, I guess I'll keep the cd player in my car turned off a while. As for playing with the guitar. Do you suggest I start with something like the major scale? Like hum the Doh. Stop, then play the note. Continue up and down the scale this way?

yea ...but sing vowels...not hum. Use all vowels..ay,ee,I,o,u, and ah. Do a scale with all ah's...then all ee's etc.

Hey merk is marathon singing good for you? Theres no pain, but the vox on third eye blinds first album are fairly challenging and I have been singing the album all the way through... I was just wondering if this is too much for my vocal cords, since the album is almost an hour long...thats about an hour of challenging singing after warmups...so uh yeah will this hurt or help me?

NOt if you warm up good and over time you will find it easier. The thing is to make sure youre not tensing the larynx and squeezing it up with your notes. If youre good at keeping things isolated an hour can go by pretty fast. For me in my ideal situations I sing alot of lower intensity stuff to warm up. Sometimes for an hour. Or I'll just sing any song that I like at a lower intensity, even if the song is high intensity. I like to have thirty minutes to an hour at least of warmup stuff before I start trying to get any growth based work going.

ok ive been reading this "how to scream" thread since the very first one posted by MIKE.....and i want to learn to do the emocore type scream, I JUST CANT GET IT its just impossible.... and i tryed last night and i got a major migraine/headache...i got the headache at about 8 30 last night and i still have it now .... 2:45 p.m the next day! i dont know wut to do....

[QUOTE=Acey13]ok ive been reading this "how to scream" thread since the very first one posted by MIKE.....and i want to learn to do the emocore type scream, I JUST CANT GET IT its just impossible.... and i tryed last night and i got a major migraine/headache...i got the headache at about 8 30 last night and i still have it now .... 2:45 p.m the next day! i dont know wut to do....[/QUOTE]
Well this thread is way different than the "how to scream thread" that you looked in. THat thread is laughable at best, and as you can see, a waste of your time and dangerous. This line is one of my favorites: "This is NOT the healthiest way to scream/shout, but if Ian (Minor Threat) can do it, so can you. Just make sure to coat the vocal cords with a substance such as milk and saliva to at least not completly damage your voice on your first attempt."
You cant "coat the cords". When you swallow your larynx closes off so that you dont get anything at all on your cords because if you do thats called choking. Duh! THis type of ignorance actually makes me angry.

Since you seem to have cut and past this post I'll give you time to read this thread before replying much. Just relax and go for more of a normal singing approach. To get a note your cords vibrate at a certain length(pitch). If you want to scream you have to be able to hold this while pushing more. Its the same for singing or screaming. But with screaming you need more strength of course and you need to use your false cords to get the rasp. This is the same area you use to bark like a dog or get the ANNKK wrong answer type of sound. It is important that you be able to relax the throat and keep the adams apple(layrnx, voicebox) from clamping up shut like when you swallow. And you need to be supporting the pressure with a good proper breath and diaphragm. It sounds like alot but dont overthink it. Its all in this thread. Lately my usual advice is to practice singing through your range, and work your way up to more and more push. You cant run before you can walk.

well i did drink a glass of milk and a glass of water of equal size after reading the thread :lol: it seems only the water is logical. I can tell u know wut ur talking bout, which is great, and i'd like to thank u in advance for that:thumb: now...my problem seems to be understanding this stuff about my vocal chords n all that.... Basically i just sing and try to get the pitch, and when i try to "use my diapragm/gut" it sounds the exact same, feels the exact same except then my ab muscles just hurt... i dont know, ill try tomorrow again when my head settles but thanks for takin to the time to read/reply to this:wave:

Hey Merkaba,
I'm not going to barrage you with questions like
"How do you scream"
I have that all down, I have a very deep scream and I get no pain
when screaming It's just I lose my highest falsetto after practice
wich is very odd.
I was wondering If I am not warming up enough?
I warm up for about 10 minutes, my band's practices usually last for about
an hour - 2.Thanks dude.

[QUOTE=Acey13]well i did drink a glass of milk and a glass of water of equal size after reading the thread :lol: it seems only the water is logical. I can tell u know wut ur talking bout, which is great, and i'd like to thank u in advance for that:thumb: now...my problem seems to be understanding this stuff about my vocal chords n all that.... Basically i just sing and try to get the pitch, and when i try to "use my diapragm/gut" it sounds the exact same, feels the exact same except then my ab muscles just hurt... i dont know, ill try tomorrow again when my head settles but thanks for takin to the time to read/reply to this:wave:[/QUOTE]
If youre not having problems dont worry about the diaphgragm. You cant sing without it but many people need the "sing from the gut" term in order to get them to not "sing from the throat" which is when one closes the throat down to increase pressure behind the cords, to get a feel of pressure, but this shouldnt be the case.

[QUOTE=Bleeding-Through]Hey Merkaba,
I'm not going to barrage you with questions like
"How do you scream"
I have that all down, I have a very deep scream and I get no pain
when screaming It's just I lose my highest falsetto after practice
wich is very odd.
I was wondering If I am not warming up enough?
I warm up for about 10 minutes, my band's practices usually last for about
an hour - 2.Thanks dude.[/QUOTE]
Thats not odd at all.
Falsetto occurs when the cords cant close together and they open up which gives them an edge only vibration. The more you do anything strenuous the more your cords will swell and tighten naturally from the heat and friction. Its nothing to be concerned about usually. But singing even normally is way more taxing than talking. While screaming is way more taxing than singing. When they get a little swollen they wont vibrate as well at higher pitches(stretched thin) because they are thicker from the swelling.
warmup longer for shorter "work", warmup shorter for longer work. I would take about twenty minutes to warm up for a lot of screaming. Ideally you should be warming up as you get out of the shower, get your clothes, go get the mail, do this and that, whatever. get the cords loosened throughout the day. And dont forget that you could be overpushing a bit.

Warm up with normal singing first. In between songs or during any breaks I always do my lowest o's and e's, glissing up and down from low to high on a light push. Be sure to warm down after your practice by doing your highest falsetto and glissing down to your lowest chest. I do this on all vowels a few times. And usually end doing some low e's and normal speaking voice e's. Warming down doesnt need to last more than five minutes.

[QUOTE=Merkaba-1]If youre not having problems dont worry about the diaphgragm. You cant sing without it but many people need the "sing from the gut" term in order to get them to not "sing from the throat" which is when one closes the throat down to increase pressure behind the cords, to get a feel of pressure, but this shouldnt be the case.

Thats not wut i ment lol ... as far as sonding the same, thats bad because i wus sayin it wus too hard before....ok so lemme rephrase that : Ok when i sing its hurts my throat and i get a headache after/during. When i try to use my gut or diapragm it doesnt feel likes its making a difference...it ADDDS the ab pain but keeps the head aches and soar throat....also the fact that i cant get that scream, i figure u probably cant really help but im fuckin stumped....:confused:

If youre getting headaches and sore throats from singing its one thing. Mis managment of air supply. Youre pushing too hard and/or blocking off your throat too much. The false cords and vocal cords close up when you grunt or strain to lift something because it increasing your internal pressure which makes your spine and everything more rigid to support what youre doing. If you did a set of heavy squats and didnt breath properly you'd probably feel the same way. I say, as usual, practice normal singing and add more and more push to your normal singing while keeping lose and relaxed. Your abs shouldnt hurt. You dont squeeze in much with the abs. If you pull your belly buttom in and up, thats about the only ab movement you'd be wanting to do. And that would be a slower thing. If your tensing the abs stiff youre doing it wrong, and this is just adding to your internal pressure giving you headaches and throwing your air off and giving you a more throaty approach because if you clench your abs its harder to get intouch with your diaphragm.

No vocal technique should be uncomfortable or give you pain ever.

ok ill try that........ill check in soon thanks again man :thumb: