thanks
 

I think I just became a better guitar player in the last forty five minutes as I did over the last two years. I would have had to pay some banker with a ponytail $45 an hour to explain that to me while I sat here with my guitar in drop C and him playing a standard tuned 5 string bass? I had a real stoner's understanding of all that ****. I got enough of it to pretend I knew what I was doing. F$%# A**

F$%# A**

[QUOTE=Hurricane]im guessing that you are getting most of your info from "The Jazz Theory Book" by mark levine published by The Sher Music Co. considering your avatar?[/QUOTE]


I have that book and really like the picture on the front. It's definitely not my only source or even main source of information, though.

Nice
 

Nice article, but one of the things i thought when reading it was that you said that the most obvious chord to follow aminor would be E7 and then back to aminor.. But the most usual chord should be eminor7 and then back to aminor to be basic, right? Even if the Eminor7-chord often is exchanged to E7 to make the changes a little bit more exciting. Im sure that you know of this and what you wrote about this was just a example, i´m correcting it for those who don´t know this and want to learn.

/Kim

That was part of Asa's article and he's long gone, but I'll try to answer for him. The E7 would mean that the entire progression (E7-Amin) is either melodic or harmonic minor. The dominant chord has a much stronger resolution than an Emin7 chord does. However, if you wanted to stay entirely "in key" (Amin being equivalent to C major), then you would use the Emin7 chord. But in most cases, and almost always if the progression stands alone, the E7 would be the better choice.

hey...i'm new to this forum and forums in general. I enjoy jazz as you all do (i see). I play the trumpet n the piano in our school band but it seems that i dont have a lot of people to discuss jazz with....
Question: Is this thread just about learning to play jazz or are there some deep jazz ppl ere?

Anyways...i like Bill Evans, Colatrane, Bill Frisell, John Abercrombie...n u ppl?

this thread's for pretty much anything that will help you play jazz, but mainly theory-related; any skill or knowledge level as well. you can talk about your favorite artists in other threads

I've noticed a lot of people asking what scales to use over differentchords and stuff like that. Probably asked something like that myself when this thread began. Basically though, this is the wrong question. Most great musicians don't think like that.

For improvising in a basic progression where all the chords are in the same key (eg. Autumn Leaves) here is how it's done. If the band are playing in D minor begin your solo with a D. In your mind's ear you should hear a note that will follow from that D nicely. Play that note. That note should trigger another note in your mind. Play that note, and so on for the rest ofyour jazz career. As you get used to the approach you should find yourself thinking more than one note in advance until eventually you are thinking 10 to 20 notes ahead. To check if you are doing it right guitarists and pianists can sing along with their improvisations, and the notes you sing should exactly match the notes you play.

Sometimes you'll come across music where you can't really hear much going on in your mind, or what is in your mind clashes with the chords. This usually happens at key changes or over out of key chords. I have difficulty with the strings of dominant chords in Charlie Parker tunes myself. The problem is I'm not aware of all the notes in the chord. When some people hear chords they only hear the bass note clearly. They can hear that there are other notes but they couldn't tell you what they are.

Other people only hear the highest note in thechord clearly but your solo needs to fit with all 4 notes in the chord. There are a couple of things you can do to fix this.
1.Play a random chord on guitar or piano. Sing the second lowest one. Can't do it? Then play the second lowest note on it's own. then play the chord again. This time you should be able to easily make out the note. Do this a couple of hundred times and your ear will improve and you will hear all the notes in the chord more clearly. If you find this really hard start with three note chords, they're easier.
2. Play the chord progression you're having trouble with in arpeggios, listening carefully. Memorize the arpeggio pattern so well you can sing it. This is called 'internalising the chords'. It's probably impractical to do this often but some things are worth doing it for, like the jazz version of the 12 bar blues and I Got Rhythm.

almost posted some real information here but realized yous guys were way beyond logic on the improvizational theory tip---good luck! happy non-playing!!

Anyone care to recommend a theory book that will start off past basics but still explain stuff within simple terms (not too simple, not too complicated). I know a fair amount of music theory from MX and musictheory.net, but I'd like to focus on it more. I have a book on jazz, but it's heavily focused on technique for improv, which of course is no bad thing, but I need something else as well.

Someone mentioned "The Jazz Theory Book" by mark levine; is that good? I can get it from my local library, so that would be very convinient if it is useful.

augmented scales vs whole tone
 

when is it considered proper to use either scale? which is more commonly used over an augmented chord with a minor seventh ( C7+5).

im not quite sure what im asking. but i guess any help with either of these scales would be great. thanks!

which is more commonly used over an augmented chord with a minor seventh ( C7+5).

the simple answer is - a whole-tone scale (a 6-note symetrical scale)
C D E F# G# Bb (or some might call the Bb an A# but it's all the same note)

And this may be a good time to start experimenting with "chromatic approaches" also. Do you know what "chromatic approaches" are?

[QUOTE=Joseph India]which is more commonly used over an augmented chord with a minor seventh ( C7+5).

the simple answer is - a whole-tone scale (a 6-note symetrical scale)
C D E F# G# Bb (or some might call the Bb an A# but it's all the same note)

And this may be a good time to start experimenting with "chromatic approaches" also. Do you know what "chromatic approaches" are?[/QUOTE]

is that like starting from a half step lower or higher than a chord tone? is that basically what the augmented scale is? and what of the second mode of that scale?

this stuff is very confusing to me. plus i cant find my book with all the scales listed!

Sort of.
No.
And there isn't much need to think about modes for a whole-tone scale in my opinion. (due to their symmetric nature there are really only 2 whole tone scales)
Chromatic approaches dont specifically have anything to do with whole-tone scales or any particular scales.
Chromatic approach just means you approach a note in the scale from a chromatic note as you feel (from a half step above or below). This is just a way for beginners to get a feel for using all of the notes instead of being confined to a scale. (There are also more complicated ways to use all 12 notes but dont worry about all that yet)Let your ear guide you.
Experiment with chromatic approaches to get an idea of what it "looks like" when you make those sounds, so that when you hear the sounds in your head, you will have that connection with what the sound "looks like", and you wont be searching, in key, for a note that you want to play that isn't in key.
Does this make sense?

[QUOTE=Joelbassman]I've been looking at musictheory.net and the only problem is the sightreading of bass there was only guitar, key board and brass.

And is anyone in the knowing of a lesson of applying scales to bass?[/QUOTE]


all you hae to do is take a guitar scale and apply it to bass tuning. usually your in E so just use the E,A,D and G strings. Its really not that hard.

[QUOTE]
(There are also more complicated ways to use all 12 notes but dont worry about all that yet)
[/QUOTE]

Care to post some more advanced chromatic approach stuff? :p
Essentially, that introduction was a brief guide to using leading tones...more for bass players, imo, but useful for guitarists, too.

I think there's some good stuff in this thread so far, but it's a bit intimidating for someone to work their way through 24 pages. If someone goes through and produces a complete 'mx jazz forum theory lessons' from this thread, I'll enter them in my pool of users to potentially give them a bigger avatar. It has to be complete, though, preferably ordered by section.

If this is done, someone with the sofware to make pdf files should make a handy 'guidebook' of jazz theory...and of course, all you jazz nuts should keep on posting lessons and tips.

Care to post some more advanced chromatic approach stuff?

Hmmm
I don't think I could explain it very well. When you start getting into this stuff, things get very subjective and I would mostly be explaining my specific aesthetic rather than giving general information on jazz theory. So all I could do is maybe write something about using the dominant altered 7 chord over a major chord, and even that seems pretty impossible to explain in a way that would ACTUALLY help anyone.

feel free to delete this post, I just posted it to answer Broadway's question

[QUOTE=Alive]Anyone care to recommend a theory book that will start off past basics but still explain stuff within simple terms (not too simple, not too complicated). I know a fair amount of music theory from MX and musictheory.net, but I'd like to focus on it more. I have a book on jazz, but it's heavily focused on technique for improv, which of course is no bad thing, but I need something else as well.

Someone mentioned "The Jazz Theory Book" by mark levine; is that good? I can get it from my local library, so that would be very convinient if it is useful.[/QUOTE]

Well I use it in my Jazz Fundamentals class aka Jazz theory, so yeah, it's an alright resource. It'll teach you basic and not so basic techniques, but some(actually more) of the musical examples are lame-sounding and some things could be worded better :p but ya know it's good overall, IMO, also his piano book isn't too bad either...why the hell is my school so on Mark Levine?!? :eek: j/k

some of you guys that are young and already know all that jazz stuff, you are lucky you get to have that upbringing, some are unfortunate and dont get that chance and some argue about who is wiser. i tried for jazz band in high school and got rejected.

saddest day of my life.

of course i am not here for sympathy but i want to know if anybody knows some of the chords for the intro "The Touch of Your Lips" as sang by Tony Bennet? or the whole song...

[quote=Alive]Anyone care to recommend a theory book that will start off past basics but still explain stuff within simple terms (not too simple, not too complicated). I know a fair amount of music theory from MX and musictheory.net, but I'd like to focus on it more. I have a book on jazz, but it's heavily focused on technique for improv, which of course is no bad thing, but I need something else as well.

Someone mentioned "The Jazz Theory Book" by mark levine; is that good? I can get it from my local library, so that would be very convinient if it is useful.[/quote]

Yeah, I have that book. I'm only a little way into learning about jazz and I've found it very helpful so far.

[QUOTE=v055m4n]some of you guys that are young and already know all that jazz stuff, you are lucky you get to have that upbringing, some are unfortunate and dont get that chance and some argue about who is wiser. i tried for jazz band in high school and got rejected.

saddest day of my life.

of course i am not here for sympathy but i want to know if anybody knows some of the chords for the intro "The Touch of Your Lips" as sang by Tony Bennet? or the whole song...[/QUOTE]


For many of us it had nothing to do with our upbringing. In fact, if I had followed what was expected of me musically I wouldn't be playing the guitar, and definitely wouldn't be playing jazz. You can definitely learn jazz on your own.

Yeah I didn't start playing jazz until this year and I'm doing fine. It's more of your level of commitment to it than anything else I think.

I think I'm going to do a degree in music composition: jazz and classical, if there is such a thing.

[QUOTE=Firecracker]I think I'm going to do a degree in music composition: jazz and classical, if there is such a thing.[/QUOTE]
you can double major

[QUOTE=Firecracker]I think I'm going to do a degree in music composition: jazz and classical, if there is such a thing.[/QUOTE]

For some strange reason I find composing for classical very easier than jazz. Maybe because classical has a lot of strict guidelines you need to adhere to, thus leaving you with not many places to run off to, whilst with jazz..that's a whole different story. :thumb:

Where I go you can do a Bachelor Of Music (Composition) but it doesn't offer composition of particular styles specifically.

[QUOTE=gaslight]Where I go you can do a Bachelor Of Music (Composition) but it doesn't offer composition of particular styles specifically.[/QUOTE]

My college does that too, but I think they're just trying to give you a broader range of subjects so that you won't be just confined to one style of music.

Yeah, I think it's a good thing too. It would be a bit of drain on the resources to have seperate courses because it would involve organising twice as many classes, extra teachers, things like that.

Yeah in classical it is sufficiently easier, there may be such a larger orchestra (in some cases). But with Jazz yes, there's whole tonality of it and the instruments need using, the syncopation, i haven't actually heard much jazz which i like, but it is always a good oppertunity to be able to compose such a narrow/popular/tricky style.