I scream from the gut, and I'm a really good screamer now, I'll try to get some samples up, soon. I now can mostly be compared to grindcore "singers" or Jake Bannon from Converge (but lower).

Anyway, since a couple of days ago, I feel like I have to throw up. How come? What am I doing wrong and what can I do to prevent this?

New to screaming
 

First i'd like to thank merkaba, your tips have got me on my way to becoming a screamer. I've got a few questions tho...
1. I know I read about other people having an irritated throat when they first started trying to scream, and i've had the same thing happening. My throat has felt very scratchy for the last day, and I was wondering if i'm doing something wrong, and/or how to fix it?
2. When I scream, it feels like something is vibrating in the back of my throat/vocal cord area. Is this the right feeling?
3. When I try to push the scream harder to make it more intense, or if i try to hit a higher note or scream words (rather than just noise), I often end up in a coughing fit. How can I fix this?

Thanks everyone

And here is my first ever scream i tried to record. The link is [url]http://www.soundclick.com/?station=1698410[/url] (give it 24 hrs to clear)

Would you mind checking this out and letting me know how it is merk? Thanks much. Oh and everyone else, you can cut it up if you feel like lol.

Cheers

oops
 

My bad, wrong URL
Here's the real one:
[url]http://www.soundclick.com/bands/1/mikeyess_music.htm[/url]

THe back of your throat will get irritated more than likely due to the excessive air. Hopefully you will get used to this and that area will toughen up. That can be done if you have correct enough technique so that you can work out long enough to do that.

I cant really describe what it feels like, but of course its gonna be a degree of vibration...in the back of the throat in the same area youre feeling...?? i cant tell over the net. Pretty much the same area as if you grunted or mimicked a lion roar.

If you need to cough..you did something wrong. Couldve been your extra push with a squeezed up tense throat that didnt let the cords vibrate properly. The harder you push, the more you relax....everything but the cords. So if you cant isolate the cords from the throat then there's problems. And if you dont normally hit higher notes then you have to work up to it slowly because there is no muscle memory yet...so youre more likely to botch it up. If its not natural..then you will have to notice a difference in the feel of holding the throat open while squeezing the cords closed. You have to kinda work two sets of muscles in opposite...

[QUOTE=Merkaba-1]THe back of your throat will get irritated more than likely due to the excessive air. Hopefully you will get used to this and that area will toughen up. That can be done if you have correct enough technique so that you can work out long enough to do that.

I cant really describe what it feels like, but of course its gonna be a degree of vibration...in the back of the throat in the same area youre feeling...?? i cant tell over the net. Pretty much the same area as if you grunted or mimicked a lion roar.

If you need to cough..you did something wrong. Couldve been your extra push with a squeezed up tense throat that didnt let the cords vibrate properly. The harder you push, the more you relax....everything but the cords. So if you cant isolate the cords from the throat then there's problems. And if you dont normally hit higher notes then you have to work up to it slowly because there is no muscle memory yet...so youre more likely to botch it up. If its not natural..then you will have to notice a difference in the feel of holding the throat open while squeezing the cords closed. You have to kinda work two sets of muscles in opposite...[/QUOTE]

hey merka what about me!!

use the rapidshare link:

[url]http://rapidshare.de/files/2856106/dr_stein-04.mp3.html[/url]

you scroll down, put "free" and then scroll down again and wait a couple of seconds and then download.

[QUOTE=Ibanex0110]ok, i have kind of asked this question in various manners before, but haven't really gotten that good of a response. I would like to learn how to sing higher, like James from Metallica on the early albums. I can get into the range that James sings in, but it's quite hard. I know my voice isn't too deep, cause James voice is way deeper then mine. Will it get easier to hit the high notes if I practice more, or is it just a matter of me not being able to hit those notes?[/QUOTE]

can anyone help me with this?

Thanks for the reply merk
One more thing though, i can only seem to scream a certain note. If i try to go higher, it comes out more like a ... gurgling... or something lol. Is it because my throat it tensing up or something?
[url]http://www.soundclick.com/bands/1/mikeyess_music.htm[/url] <- this should be cleared by now, lemme know how it sounds, thx

Merkaba,
so your supposed to feel irritation if your doing the rasping right from the back of the throat?

[QUOTE=Screamin_Demon_Auz]Merkaba,
so your supposed to feel irritation if your doing the rasping right from the back of the throat?[/QUOTE]
I didnt say that! hehe. But its more likely. I get it alot if if Dont do alot of raspy vocals and I suddenly do like one or two hours of it or something. My cords would be relatively fine, but the throat itself will be all scratchy and whatnot. Kinda pay attention to what youre feeling. Do lots of buzzing and glisses and ee's if you cant figure out whether or not your cords are irritated as well. You'll know because your notes will be affected or harder to get.

[QUOTE=Ibanex0110]can anyone help me with this?[/QUOTE]
Thought I replied to this...dang..I dont have much time. Basically if you cant get into his range its probably a combination of two things. One its just out of your range for now...and youre using and have been using improper techniques that make it harder to get there "naturally" . Or....it just could be permanently out of your reach. I dont like to say that much because with time and practice you can surprise yourself but i dont know how your larynx and cords are set up, so you are the only one who can with proper technique and practice.

[QUOTE=luciano]hey merka what about me!!

use the rapidshare link:

[url]http://rapidshare.de/files/2856106/dr_stein-04.mp3.html[/url]

you scroll down, put "free" and then scroll down again and wait a couple of seconds and then download.[/QUOTE]
I'll try to get to it after work...gotta go!

hey merkaba, i used to come on here alot, but i gave up on music for a while, but now im back. I just got some stuff for recording on my Pc and i wanted to work on my vocals a bit. But i'm not sure wether what i hear on the radio and my Cd's is screaming or just rasp. The sounds that i would like to achieve are off of the audioslave - self titled album. Im guessing you have this since u like cornell (my favorite singer), but yeah off of that song Shadow On The Sun there is a break down where he does half normal and the other half either screaming or raspy, i cant tell. Can you tell me?


shapes of every size
moves behind my eyes
doors inside my head
bolted from within
[screaming starts here]
every drop of flame
lights a candle in
memory of the one
who lived inside my skin

but yeah, is taht screaming or rasp. ALso if you could, could u record taht and put it up or email it to me.... [email]loki_cmr@hotmail.com[/email] THAT WOULD BE SOOOO FREAKING AWESOME. thanks man

[QUOTE=Merkaba-1]I'll try to get to it after work...gotta go![/QUOTE]

thanx merka!!! i am eagerly waiting.

i uploaded another version, this one is ogg vorbis file, so you need winamp 5 to read it. it is also rapidshare.

[url]http://rapidshare.de/files/2914031/dr_stein_lu.ogg.html[/url]

[QUOTE=loki_cmr]hey merkaba, i used to come on here alot, but i gave up on music for a while, but now im back. I just got some stuff for recording on my Pc and i wanted to work on my vocals a bit. But i'm not sure wether what i hear on the radio and my Cd's is screaming or just rasp. The sounds that i would like to achieve are off of the audioslave - self titled album. Im guessing you have this since u like cornell (my favorite singer), but yeah off of that song Shadow On The Sun there is a break down where he does half normal and the other half either screaming or raspy, i cant tell. Can you tell me?


shapes of every size
moves behind my eyes
doors inside my head
bolted from within
[screaming starts here]
every drop of flame
lights a candle in
memory of the one
who lived inside my skin

but yeah, is taht screaming or rasp. ALso if you could, could u record taht and put it up or email it to me.... [email]loki_cmr@hotmail.com[/email] THAT WOULD BE SOOOO FREAKING AWESOME. thanks man[/QUOTE]

Hey no fair...using cornell to get at me. Dammit. Thats one of my faves too. Gees. That part is typical rasp technique...but you have to have some control and flexibility to get an even tone like he does. Its just not impossible if you learn technique which...lets face it...is hard to do over the net. I cant stress enough the ability to isolate. You should practice it until you get what I'm talking about. I'll try to record that soon....It takes alot of push to get it to sound like he does though. I would do it now but its 8 in the morning and its way loud.

"Once upon a time..."

*referign to my first post on this page*

So.... how [b]do[/b] I stop that feeling? Y'know, like, if I have to throw up while I scream. Although I don't actually throw up.

Yeah, the back of my throat feels scratchy/discomfort if I sing raspy or scream without warming up first. I mean if I only do it for a couple of minutes I don't feel anything, but if I push at it, it feels that way. So I guess it's normal, but it's only my fault for not warming up in the first place! I hardly ever do that, but every now and then I'll really get into a CD on the drive home from work or something, and it'll feel scratchy from singing along with the raspy thrash stuff. :D

[QUOTE=Merkaba-1]Hey no fair...using cornell to get at me. Dammit. Thats one of my faves too. Gees. That part is typical rasp technique...but you have to have some control and flexibility to get an even tone like he does. Its just not impossible if you learn technique which...lets face it...is hard to do over the net. I cant stress enough the ability to isolate. You should practice it until you get what I'm talking about. I'll try to record that soon....It takes alot of push to get it to sound like he does though. I would do it now but its 8 in the morning and its way loud.

"Once upon a time..."[/QUOTE]

cool! I'll just sit here and wait...



"i was of the mind..."

[QUOTE=Kosta]*referign to my first post on this page*

So.... how [b]do[/b] I stop that feeling? Y'know, like, if I have to throw up while I scream. Although I don't actually throw up.[/QUOTE]
You might be pulling down with the root of your tonque, and doing it forcefully as you go about the scream forcefully. If you pull with the root of your tongue its like if you were sayin "ew" really hard at something gross. Thats really the only way i can describe it. Many people do this to open the throat but Its considered a nono as well because you can pull the tongue back and add pressure as your block the air flow again. Pay attention to your tongue and see what its doing. If you pull it back and in really hard it might could cause your feeling...that and overpushing.

Sing a word that ends in "ee"ng. Like singing. what your tongue does to hold the ng...(or should do) is kinda like home base for alot of mid to head notes. Feel how the sides of the tongue want to press against the teeth. Or more than likely they will. If not then try to find this feeling, but dont overmanipulate anything to get there if you dont do it naturally. But if you do do it...you might can notice a big difference. It keeps your tongue out of your way and looser. The point is to make sure the tongue is out of the way. Other than that its either over push or you contracting part of the tract out ot tension issues. Some people have stomach problems and acid reflux from singing. So its not impossible that youre tensing some wrong muscles.

Hello Merkaba, congratulations on the excellent job you're doing here. It's good to see people willing to share their knowledge with patience and kindness.

I would like some information on growling or "singing from the gut" as you call it, so I was wondering if there are other resources besides page 5 of this thread.

First off, I wanna thank you for all the helpful tips. The warm ups, the breathing techniques, and the screaming advice. I've been struggling for the last couple of weeks to get a good scream down that doesn't hurt my voice. And I finally have one. You have no idea how excited I was after I had been using this certain screaming technique for awhile, went to go swallow, and it didn't hurt. lol But I have a question. The scream that I have is kinda...I dunno...high pitched maybe? Nothing like falsetto or anything like that. It reminds me of Brock Lindow (from 36 Crazyfists) on the song "At The End of August". lol I imagine that doesn't help if you don't know the song. And it's not like I dislike the scream, so the you knowing what the pitch sounds like isn't my concern. I wanna know how to make it lower. 'Cause I tried holding it like I was singing a note, then just trying to lower it like I would normally lower a note while singing, and my voice ended up cracking and it hurt. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated from anyone. But thanks again for all the great tips you have given.

Screaming
 

Thanks for the reply merk
One more thing though, i can only seem to scream a certain note. If i try to go higher, it comes out more like a ... gurgling... or something lol. Is it because my throat it tensing up or something?
I also can't seem to scream words just... sounds. What is the trick to doing that?
[url]http://www.soundclick.com/bands/1/mikeyess_music.htm[/url] <- this should be cleared by now, lemme know how it sounds, thx

Falsetto?
 

Sorry for the two posts in a row, but how exactly do you do a falsetto scream?

with falsetto and rasp

[QUOTE=luciano]thanx merka!!! i am eagerly waiting.

i uploaded another version, this one is ogg vorbis file, so you need winamp 5 to read it. it is also rapidshare.

[url]http://rapidshare.de/files/2914031/dr_stein_lu.ogg.html[/url][/QUOTE]

still waiting....
if you want to, you can mail me at [email]hechesi@yahoo.com[/email]

first version (mp3)
[url]http://rapidshare.de/files/2856106/dr_stein-04.mp3.html[/url]

last and better version (ogg)
[url]http://rapidshare.de/files/2914031/dr_stein_lu.ogg.html[/url]

if rapidshare doesn't work, mail me and i'll send it through mail.

[QUOTE=StormX]Ah, I pretty much totally forgot about this forum, I've been too busy in D&P.

anyway, merkaba, i'm not sure if you ever remember talking to me, but I was trying to scream, and I still can't really. It always ends up being a whisper scream, no matter how hard I try not to. If it's not, it's not really a good scream and it hurts. I've tried doing it from the gut and all that, but its just the whisper stuff. Also, if I try to do it not whisper, it sounds bad.

Basically, how do I get past this annoying whisper barrier?[/QUOTE]
Bringing it up to attention again

Storm, the only thing I can recommend is that you sing. I'm 99 percent sure youre trying to get the rasp so hard that youre shifting all kinds of stuff around looking for it. THe note comes first. learn to sing hard first, and the rasping will come. You will need diaphragm support though. Got any samples?

Yes, you might have to remind me if I skip over you. Sometimes I might not be around for a day due to my work and the next thing you know youre on an old page or I just plain ran out of time. Isolate, and sing.

[QUOTE=MetalFan]
I would like some information on [B]growling [/B] or "singing from the gut" as you call it, so I was wondering if there are [B]other resources [/B] besides page 5 of this thread.[/QUOTE]

:wave:

[QUOTE=Merkaba-1]Storm, the only thing I can recommend is that you sing. I'm 99 percent sure youre trying to get the rasp so hard that youre shifting all kinds of stuff around looking for it. THe note comes first. learn to sing hard first, and the rasping will come. You will need diaphragm support though. Got any samples?

Yes, you might have to remind me if I skip over you. Sometimes I might not be around for a day due to my work and the next thing you know youre on an old page or I just plain ran out of time. Isolate, and sing.[/QUOTE]

Sounds like a good idea, except I can't sing.

I try to sing, yes, but it just sounds like I'm talking.

Basically I just suck :upset:

[QUOTE=Merkaba-1]Hey no fair...using cornell to get at me. Dammit. Thats one of my faves too. Gees. That part is typical rasp technique...but you have to have some control and flexibility to get an even tone like he does. Its just not impossible if you learn technique which...lets face it...is hard to do over the net. I cant stress enough the ability to isolate. You should practice it until you get what I'm talking about. I'll try to record that soon....It takes alot of push to get it to sound like he does though. I would do it now but its 8 in the morning and its way loud.

"Once upon a time..."[/QUOTE]


mabe u forgot...

<plea for help>

My throat starts hurting within a couple of minutes when I'm screaming. I know I'm doing something wrong... but I can't really figure out what.

>_<

Are there any really good exercises to get my throat more used to screaming and/or stop it from hurting so friggin much?

</plea for help>

Don't force the scream, and don't try to make it in your throat (I hope thats right)

It should be like singing, but you just push more.
but I can't do it so that may be wrong

[QUOTE=StormX]Don't force the scream, and don't try to make it in your throat (I hope thats right)

It should be like singing, but you just push more.
but I can't do it so that may be wrong[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I think that was my problem. Up till now, I've been using my throat a LOT to get the raspy scream out. I guess I'll work on using my abdomen more for that.

:p

From what I understand, you've got to push from your gut.

Read all the threads in the first post, a lot of help. Espicially the one about breathing opposite of normal, it helps tons.

[QUOTE=crazyguy832]Yeah, I think that was my problem. Up till now, I've been using my throat a LOT to get the raspy scream out. I guess I'll work on using my abdomen more for that.

:p[/QUOTE]


You need yout throat to get the rasp.

The power comes from the diaphragm. The sound comes from the back of your throat. If you want more rasp, push more. But don't overdo the pushing.

[QUOTE=Rats]with falsetto and rasp[/QUOTE]


Har har. Gah, you're right, but I can see his point. I can't do a falsetto scream, at all, but I can scream from the gut with added rasp.

[QUOTE=Merkaba-1]You might be pulling down with the root of your tonque, and doing it forcefully as you go about the scream forcefully. If you pull with the root of your tongue its like if you were sayin "ew" really hard at something gross. Thats really the only way i can describe it. Many people do this to open the throat but Its considered a nono as well because you can pull the tongue back and add pressure as your block the air flow again. Pay attention to your tongue and see what its doing. If you pull it back and in really hard it might could cause your feeling...that and overpushing.

Sing a word that ends in "ee"ng. Like singing. what your tongue does to hold the ng...(or should do) is kinda like home base for alot of mid to head notes. Feel how the sides of the tongue want to press against the teeth. Or more than likely they will. If not then try to find this feeling, but dont overmanipulate anything to get there if you dont do it naturally. But if you do do it...you might can notice a big difference. It keeps your tongue out of your way and looser. The point is to make sure the tongue is out of the way. Other than that its either over push or you contracting part of the tract out ot tension issues. Some people have stomach problems and acid reflux from singing. So its not impossible that youre tensing some wrong muscles.[/QUOTE]


I think I'm overdoing it. I just practiced a bit today and just..relaxed more, and it helped. I strained something too much, for some reason. My screams always sounded better without straining anything, I think I just wanted to get more out of my screams than necassery, causing me to strain/tense too much. I relaxed again and it sounded good.

I'll pay more attention to my tongue, though. Thanks.

You need to isolate your cords.
Warm up, practice glisses, and work on falsetto alot. If you understand how to add rasp with your throat, then just try adding that rasp while using falsetto. When I first tried that, it took ALOT of pushing, but I knew I was using the right tecnique so I kept doing it, and it didn't hurt (except for my stomach because I was tired from pushing so much :p haha).

But yeah, you just need to work on falsetto, you need to be able to sing the note in falsetto first... if you can't do that, well... start at page 1 of this thread. :thumb:

[QUOTE=CDoasis]
But yeah, you just need to work on falsetto, you need to be able to sing the note in falsetto first... if you can't do that, well... start at page 1 of this thread. :thumb:[/QUOTE]


Actually, I can rasp my falsetto. I jsut can't scream with it. I know I'll figure it out eventually, though.

[QUOTE=Kosta]Actually, I can rasp my falsetto. I jsut can't scream with it. I know I'll figure it out eventually, though.[/QUOTE]
Like I said..alot of those staticky sounding mudvayne, deftones, pantera, etc screams arent falsetto. They are head.

But yes it will take some push, and you use the glottal region of the throat, like if you were going to gargle the note(thanks Kristina again). But concentrate on getting the note first, then try to "gargle" it,kinda. Now with time you might have to switch a bit to get a better feel but this is one of the muscle groups youre needed to seperate from the cords, and its actually right above the true cords and are comprised of your larynx and false cords. NO they are not used for falsetto.

You control rasp based on how much you close up this area and how much push. All of that will be in a linear relationship with your strength and technique. I hate saying that because I dont have the strongest voice on the planet by far..but thats just how it works. With time you can grow a lot though. And yes, relaxing is key.

[QUOTE=StormX]Sounds like a good idea, except I can't sing.

I try to sing, yes, but it just sounds like I'm talking.

Basically I just suck :upset:[/QUOTE]
Then you need to sing!
Sing along with your favorites, if you listen to anything that has true singing in it that is.

[QUOTE=Merkaba-1]Like I said..alot of those staticky sounding mudvayne, deftones, pantera, etc screams arent falsetto. They are head.

But yes it will take some push, and you use the glottal region of the throat, like if you were going to gargle the note(thanks Kristina again). But concentrate on getting the note first, then try to "gargle" it,kinda. Now with time you might have to switch a bit to get a better feel but this is one of the muscle groups youre needed to seperate from the cords, and its actually right above the true cords and are comprised of your larynx and false cords. NO they are not used for falsetto.

You control rasp based on how much you close up this area and how much push. All of that will be in a linear relationship with your strength and technique. I hate saying that because I dont have the strongest voice on the planet by far..but thats just how it works. With time you can grow a lot though. And yes, relaxing is key.
[/QUOTE]


I feel like a burden, asking all these questions you have awnsered before. Then I think to myself "hah, he made this topic, he asked for it himself".

No seriously, thanks a lot for helping me out with this. All of it. I can't afford vocal lessons now and I'm very dedicated my screaming and I've started to apply a lot of things I learned for my screaming for clean vocals. And it helps so much.

I have no idea how to find my head voice and use it, but you probably mentioned it somewhere before, so I will now try to find it.

[QUOTE=loki_cmr]mabe u forgot...[/QUOTE]

MERKABA?!?!