Why music, plays and arts are universal for humans

[Noku]

What are the functions of music, theater and arts in civilizations? Where did these phenomenons come from? Which traits in us made it possible?

As for music, the rhytm seems to have long history dating back to the time of humans becoming bipedal based on the research presented in this thread http://www.sputnikmusic.com/forums/showthread.php?t=576114, could it be that walking on rhytm is energy conserving? Preference for pitches presentable by methematical forumulas might lean towards that these preferences were born because of mathematics, but the cultural history of mankind might state the opposite. Was sense of music somehow sexually attractive since even today it seems to be that amongst other things.

Plays in a sense are not as common as music and arts, but they were popular in ancient greek and still are today. Quite commonly plays of all kinds from theater to royal jokers have been satiric in history. That might tell something about the necessarity to be able to laugh at the ruling class, which might create stability for the society, however this claim is a bit far fetched.

Arts in general have been the way to present the symbolic aspect of humans and it has not been uncommon for the "great rulers" to try create greater and even greater monuments of themselves, but why? To present the glory of the rulers people or merely the greatness themselves?

Anyway, music, plays and arts have had strong role in the great civilizations of mankind but they are still "sexy" at the modern times. Why those have been important for civilizations, even though they don't contribute directly to the survival of the society? What might have been the benefits of those for societies?

[McP3000]

noises are fun

[1338 h4x0r]

We get bored easily and I have to say that life w/out art would suck

[guitarded_chuck]

It's all symbolic representation of emotions or events.

[1338 h4x0r]

Does it serve a purpose though hm good question

Well I definitely think science fiction is inspirational, for me, and a lot of other people who are interested in pretty cut and dry stuff with fantastic applications

[guitarded_chuck]

Artistic representation is just entertaining to people. Emotional representation created by someone else, if done properly, should convey that emotion to it's viewer. That emotional stimulation of the viewer is essentially the entertainment value and what makes art interesting.

[RNR]

As well as the aesthetic stimulation that so often goes hand-in-hand, which is universal.

[Raayl]

art has always been essential to human beings because 97% of the total population that has ever lived on this planet has lived and died in a constant state of strife and hardship

example

people used music to psychologically survive the nazi pow camps

the churches during the high middle ages were massive works of art that the peasantry built their lives around without which there is no way they'd be able to cope with such a difficult way of life

nowadays our problems are more abstract and arent based on mere survival but music, art, entertainment is still essential

[Jude]

there's almost no situation in our adaptive history though where having a musical appreciation versus not having one would mean the difference between life and death

and even if there were a few, they wouldn't have been widespread or consistent enough to be any kind of significant selection pressure

that's why the prevalent view is that it's either a side effect of other adaptations or else involved with sexual selection in some way, like a peacock's tail more or less

I'd lean toward that the first happened and then the second took over

[lukeskywalkertakingadump3]

It allows us to express things that words cannot.

[Raayl]

there's almost no situation in our adaptive history though where having a musical appreciation versus not having one would mean the difference between life and death

and even if there were a few, they wouldn't have been widespread or consistent enough to be any kind of significant selection pressure

that's why the prevalent view is that it's either a side effect of other adaptations or else involved with sexual selection in some way, like a peacock's tail more or less

I'd lean toward that the first happened and then the second took over

this is what i like to call arguing for the sake of arguing and in the process saying absolutely nothing important

[Jude]

this is what i like to call arguing for the sake of arguing and in the process saying absolutely nothing important

Uh what I said was that affinity for music almost definitely did not evolve because of its survival value or did you miss that

[Raayl]

yeah and nobody claimed it did

hence

nothing important was said

[Jude]

yeah and nobody claimed it did



except you?

[stevensonmat2]

Music is cathartic. Pretty necessary I think.

[Jude]

How is catharsis necessary?

Man, if only there were some other species more closely related to us than chimps, we might be able to answer this question.

[stevensonmat2]

Emotional resolution is pretty important for being emotionally stable. Listening to and creating music help provide this for me.

[gregulus]

Emotional resolution is pretty important for being emotionally stable. Listening to and creating music help provide this for me.

This is very good evidence for a generalized claim.

[stevensonmat2]

I'm sure I'm the only person who feels that way.

I'm not trying to prove anything, anyway. I'm just saying that music is a means of emotional expression. That's kind of a known truth.

[gregulus]

I'm sure I'm the only person who feels that way.

I'm not trying to prove anything, anyway. I'm just saying that music is a means of emotional expression. That's kind of a known truth.

That doesn't necessarily explain the evolution of music.

[stevensonmat2]

Well I wasn't trying to.

[Smokey D]

Music, plays and arts aren't universal for humans.

[Noku]

there's almost no situation in our adaptive history though where having a musical appreciation versus not having one would mean the difference between life and death

and even if there were a few, they wouldn't have been widespread or consistent enough to be any kind of significant selection pressure

that's why the prevalent view is that it's either a side effect of other adaptations or else involved with sexual selection in some way, like a peacock's tail more or less

I'd lean toward that the first happened and then the second took over

Of course, but music, plays and arts most probably had very huge impact on cultural evolution of civilizations and thus were important traits to possess.

Music has been important part of all religions and tribal rituals, first in rhytmic sense and later on with melodical structures also.

Plays have always been important for satires about the current rulers, though it was probably just an possiblity developed by the "learning by taking roles/empathy as putting yourself in the situation of another" trait.

As for what the value of cave paintings and such had been for early sociaties it is hard to tell, perhaps just a side product of free time. Though all kind of artistic monuments have been signs of the greatness of one civilizaton, perhaps some early version of cold war? "We have taller satues than you do! Surrender to our superiority!". Or it might just have been an egotrip for the rulers of all times.

[Noku]

Music, plays and arts aren't universal for humans.

Universal in the sense that a civilization which doesn't have them is a huge exception for the rule.

[Jude]

Music, plays and arts aren't universal for humans.

Actually http://www.amazon.com/Human-Universals-Donald-Brown/dp/007008209X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1248382802&sr=8-1

You might be right about plays though

[Smokey D]

Well, when we say music, plays and art are universal, do we mean that each one of them is universal or that some combination of them is universal?

Also, art and music were to a certain extent banned in some forms of early Islam, a ban which was revived by the Taleban.

[siva_chair]

Also, art and music were to a certain extent banned in some forms of early Islam, a ban which was revived by the Taleban.

No wonder they are such an angry, pissed off group of people.

[Smokey D]

Well, the Taliban are basically equivalent to hillbillies with 12 fingers per hand.

They aren't exactly part of the educated elite of the Islamic world.

Hillbillies get angry at educated elites in America too.

[siva_chair]

Well, the Taliban are basically equivalent to hillbillies with 12 fingers per hand.

They aren't exactly part of the educated elite of the Islamic world.

Hillbillies get angry at educated elites in America too.

Yes but hillbillies in America love music.

And most actual hillbillies don't really care much about educated elites imo. They just care about their moonshine.

[Smokey D]

I dunno, I'd be pretty angry if I was a hillbilly.

[siva_chair]

I dunno, I'd be pretty angry if I was a hillbilly.

Most are too drunk and too ignorant to be very angry tbh. Plus lots of them live in seclusion. Though there are always exceptions.

I think you mean rednecks, who are a generally angry and outspoken group.

[Smokey D]

We don't draw such fine distinctions where I'm from.

[siva_chair]

We don't draw such fine distinctions where I'm from.

Well you should, because there is a distinct, albeit subtle, difference between a redneck, a hillbilly, and a hick.

Jeez do you people from Australia just gloss over everything with a wide brush like that!?!?

[Jude]

Well, when we say music, plays and art are universal, do we mean that each one of them is universal or that some combination of them is universal?

Also, art and music were to a certain extent banned in some forms of early Islam, a ban which was revived by the Taleban.

I wouldn't say plays are universal; I'm sure quite a few tribes don't have what we would call theater. But music and art, yes. Even if it's banned, it still happens.

[mistersnitch]

i'm inclined to believe that there is no evolutionary advantage to these things, but that they're just side-effects of our existentialism and sensitivity which are side-effects of our heightened intelligence

Of course, but music, plays and arts most probably had very huge impact on cultural evolution of civilizations and thus were important traits to possess.

Music has been important part of all religions and tribal rituals, first in rhytmic sense and later on with melodical structures also.

Plays have always been important for satires about the current rulers, though it was probably just an possiblity developed by the "learning by taking roles/empathy as putting yourself in the situation of another" trait.

As for what the value of cave paintings and such had been for early sociaties it is hard to tell, perhaps just a side product of free time. Though all kind of artistic monuments have been signs of the greatness of one civilizaton, perhaps some early version of cold war? "We have taller satues than you do! Surrender to our superiority!". Or it might just have been an egotrip for the rulers of all times.

they probably have been valuable for many societies over time but i think this is irrelevant to their universality.

[Noku]

Well, when we say music, plays and art are universal, do we mean that each one of them is universal or that some combination of them is universal

Well plays might be a bit too sophicticated term, but quite universally tribe rituals do include role plays.

[Noku]

i'm inclined to believe that there is no evolutionary advantage to these things, but that they're just side-effects of our existentialism and sensitivity which are side-effects of our heightened intelligence

By the principles of evolution, if there is a natural habit for any animal that is very universal through out the entire global population it has to either be benefical for the individual or the group as a whole, in which case it improves the chance of survival of the group and individuals.

In case of humans cultural evolution is very significant and I claim that music, "plays" and arts have benefical traits for the group, not individual. Religion clearly makes the societies with inequal power structures more stable by justifying the status of those above you, making less fighting for the power emerge.

In rituals the role plays probably enhanced the impact of religion when Gods (and other divine and unholy beings) were visualized in the act. Same goes for music and arts, though they have clearly had meanings outside religion also.

[Jude]

By the principles of evolution, if there is a natural habit for any animal that is very universal through out the entire global population it has to either be benefical for the individual or the group as a whole, in which case it improves the chance of survival of the group and individuals.

In case of humans cultural evolution is very significant and I claim that music, "plays" and arts have benefical traits for the group, not individual. Religion clearly makes the societies with inequal power structures more stable by justifying the status of those above you, making less fighting for the power emerge.

In rituals the role plays probably enhanced the impact of religion when Gods (and other divine and unholy beings) were visualized in the act. Same goes for music and arts, though they have clearly had meanings outside religion also.


You have to keep in mind that all of the biological evolution that is common to all humans, took place long before anything resembling organized religion or societies ever existed

[die of starvation]

art was originally used to inculturate
assuming that's not a coincidence and that art was somehow better for early humans to inculturate than some other method
then artistic cultures would tend to be more persistent

[Jude]

uh ok

[die of starvation]

glad i could help

[Arash Shahry]

People have been making music for a long time. Beginning with their voice and making simple rhythm drumming on logs or blowing a blade of grass...in different periods of time human have had primary reasons for making music, but one common reason in different times is indeed human's desire and the power of expression.Very interesting stuff! Thank you for sharing your thoughts :-)

[DENEpants]

There was this Nova special on PBS a couple weeks ago about the musical mind and they don't even really understand what music does to the brain, it was pretty cool.

[Noku]

You have to keep in mind that all of the biological evolution that is common to all humans, took place long before anything resembling organized religion or societies ever existed

Well, it is all about the scale of things, certain aspects of our evolution emerged before others.