Religious question

[GnRguitarist]

My friend asked me this the other night so I had to ask it here, because I thought it was interesting:

To give the back story, my friends brother is mentally challenged. I forget the exact name of what he has, but for the most part, he is unable to function without help, has no knowledge of words, morals, any of that. This is someone who has no concept of good and bad, or right and wrong, according to his brother. Now from a religious standpoint, is it possible for this person to be sent to hell after he died? Would God do that, assuming he exists?

Discuss.

[Berner]

Depending on which theology you're referring to:

Christianity: If he's not baptized (Catholic) then yes. If he hasn't accepted Jesus as his personal saviour (Evangelicals) then yes.

Islam: Yes since he's an infidel.

Judaism: I don't think the Jews believe in a hell.

[Mr. Ron]

Yes.

[Raayl]

god could have made him retarded as a cheap way to satisfy his annual hell quota

[P13]

since he is like a child he is innocent so he will go to heaven

[Berner]

since he is like a child he is innocent so he will go to heaven

Go back and review your Christian dogma. He'll burn.

[P13]

well it's all a matter of faith
and I'm pretty sure that Jew's do believe in hell, I might be wrong.

[Berner]

well it's all a matter of faith



Ugh.

[Mr. Ron]

god is responsible for retardation even existing, so.

[Meatplow]

there was one south park episode that handled this concept pretty well

[Light Flantastic]

the free will of genetically disposed people causes retardation

[McP3000]

im under the impression that none of us knows what his fate is because we are not the ones judging him.

[Meatplow]

♫ we're all gonna be just dirt in the ground ♫

[mph4ever]

he'll probably end up in purgatory for years and then with enough prayers and donations he shall be released into heaven to take his place with the other angels and he will be cured of his illness because in heaven all the sick kids are cured and have no pain lying around on their little fluffy white clouds

[Led_Zep_Bonham]

I think mph4ever's got it :thumbsup:.

[Jude]

Depending on which theology you're referring to:

Christianity: If he's not baptized (Catholic) then yes. If he hasn't accepted Jesus as his personal saviour (Evangelicals) then yes.

Islam: Yes since he's an infidel.

Judaism: I don't think the Jews believe in a hell.

No I think most of Christianity has some kind of exemption for retards. With Islam even bad people only go to hell for a while until all their sins are burned away then they go to heaven too IIRC (except really bad people). Jews don't have a hell, I think you just don't get resurrected. Technically, that's what Christians should believe too; hell was invented later.

[Aaron]

Hell isn't a place, simply a permanent absence from God for those who turn away.

[Iskandar]

Depending on which theology you're referring to:

Christianity: If he's not baptized (Catholic) then yes. If he hasn't accepted Jesus as his personal saviour (Evangelicals) then yes.

Islam: Yes since he's an infidel.

Judaism: I don't think the Jews believe in a hell.No, in Islam people who would have never had the chance to hear of the Qur'an aren't at fault. That includes geographically isolated people and I believe mentally challenged people.

[Smokey D]

Also, I think Catholicism would say he'd go to purgatory but not to hell.

[Iskandar]

Because of original sin?

[Smokey D]

Yeah. Presumably Catholics would say he's functionally the same as a baby.

[Mr. Ron]

Well there is still the question of him not accepting Christ as his savior in any meaningful way.

[Iskandar]

I was actually thinking of how they address the issue of unborn babies when I wrote that.
Well there is still the question of him not accepting Christ as his savior in any meaningful way.But he can't do that.

[Mr. Ron]

exactly so he goes to hell

[Smokey D]

Catholicism say original sin consigns you to purgatory and positive sin consigns you to hell. I doubt you'd find many priests who'd say someone so severely disabled is capable of sinning, although maybe there are a few. As I said, they'd probably treat him like baby in that babies aren't moral agents capable of committing sins, so all they have is original sin

Purgatory isn't a nice place but its better than hell.

[Mr. Ron]

lol awesome religion huh

[mph4ever]

especially for the masses

[Iskandar]

The whole point of purgatory is that you get out sooner or later.

Ron, treat it like criminal law. A mentally unstable (ie. insane) person isn't held accountable for crimes and a mentally disabled person isn't held accountable for sinning in the eyes of God.

[Mr. Ron]

The whole point of purgatory is that you get out sooner or later.

Ron, treat it like criminal law. A mentally unstable (ie. insane) person isn't held accountable for crimes and a mentally disabled person isn't held accountable for sinning in the eyes of God.
Yeah I guess that makes sense since if you consider what god is he created retardation in the first place

[Iskandar]

Yeah I guess that makes sense since if you consider what god is he created retardation in the first placeYeah I guess. If you wanted to annoy a priest you could ask him.

[McP3000]

ask me then O:-]

[Light Flantastic]

i dont think it would really annoy a priest im sure they have a canned answer from getting that **** all the time

if you want to annoy a priest just kick him or something maybe

[Iskandar]

ask me then O:-]You're a priest?

[McP3000]

yes dont you see the halo over my head

O:-]

[Meatplow]

looks more look a cyst

[JizzInMyPants]

it's anti social personality disorder

[McP3000]

how did you know :-[

[mph4ever]

pity is wasn't a hole where a 50 cal round went through

[Aklerc]

I guess religions probably either:

1) Wouldn't see him as a Real Human and so he'd go to where maybe animals and other non sentient beings go after death (nowhere?).

or

2) Someone could act as some sort of proxy (if that's the right word) and go through all the ceremonies on his behalf in order to get a ticket to heaven.

Would God do that, assuming he exists?
Well, that's too vague a question to answer directly. The biblical god wouldn't give a crap and would probably send him straight to hell but since most level headed religious folk these days like to think of him as nicer then it's hard to say from an objective viewpoint... without knowing him personally.

[Berner]

No, in Islam people who would have never had the chance to hear of the Qur'an aren't at fault. That includes geographically isolated people and I believe mentally challenged people.


Didn't know that. I was just assuming since it's what the hard line ones are always yelling about.

[DBoons Ghost]

This thread is seriously an ages old question.

It's the one we used to ask in grammar school when you wanted to severly piss off a nun or priest.

[Berner]

When I went to school (went to a Catholic school) we used to ask if it was ok for a priest to masturbate since they weren't allowed to marry. When the Christian Ethics (lol) teacher would get all mad and say no I'd always ask then why did god make it our sexual nature the way it is that we need a release of some sort only to tell us not to.

[Mr. Ron]

Silly Berner, its a test!

[ridethelib]

Ejaculation is a sin

ejaculation feels good

feeling good is a sin

[Berner]

Silly Berner, its a test!


I like to spray the results of said test into kleenex.

[Meatplow]

the carpet will suffice

[Aaron]

This thread is seriously an ages old question.

It's the one we used to ask in grammar school when you wanted to severly piss off a nun or priest.
Er, excuse me miss, can God make a rock he can't move?

[DBoons Ghost]

Er, excuse me miss, can God make a rock he can't move?


Another excellent one.

[1338 h4x0r]

Ejaculation is a sin

ejaculation feels good

feeling good is a sin

I know the point you're trying to make here, but your argument is invalid

All things which are ejaculation are things which are sinful.
All things which are ejaculation are things which feel good.
Therefore, all things which feel good are things which are sinful.

One might as well say:

All dogs are mammals.
All dogs have tails.
Therefore, all things that have tails are mammals.

[Shell]

Those who suffer on earth have great rewards in heaven.

So I'd say retarded people get a free ticket.

[1338 h4x0r]

Being retarded is probably like drinking beer and watching television 24/7

It sounds like a pretty sweet deal if you think about it

[Light Flantastic]

those who eat bacon go to hell

see you there

[mph4ever]

When I went to school (went to a Catholic school) we used to ask if it was ok for a priest to masturbate since they weren't allowed to marry. When the Christian Ethics (lol) teacher would get all mad and say no I'd always ask then why did god make it our sexual nature the way it is that we need a release of some sort only to tell us not to.

we had a priest for r.e.

he took it upon himself to explain that he had wet dreams. we asked would god do him for spilling the seed on barren sheets. one of the kids went home and asked his mom what a wet dream was. said he learned it off the priest. priest was gone within days.

[Berner]

we had a priest for r.e.

he took it upon himself to explain that he had wet dreams. we asked would god do him for spilling the seed on barren sheets. one of the kids went home and asked his mom what a wet dream was. said he learned it off the priest. priest was gone within days.


Excellent. Had me lol'ing.

[Kickflip_Burrito]

Excellent. Had me lol'ing.

Me too.

And in answering the question, I think Smokey D was right in that (if you believe Christian Catholicism) the kid would go to purgatory not hell. As he is unable to make moral choices, like a baby, he can't be treated as a 'sinner', only Original Sin.

[Berner]

But I thought I heard that the Nazi pope changed that part of Catholic doctrine recently. Anyone else hear about this or am I losing my mind?

[1338 h4x0r]

Pope Veiny Dick is losing his mind

He's never been the same ever since that Russian shrapnel wound to the head and old age is only making it worse

[McP3000]

umm im not catholic but im offended by how bad that insult it

idk wtf youre getting at

[DBoons Ghost]

Funny story but I'll leave a lot out to keep it short.

My wife and I were married by the Papal Nuncio, or the Apolostic Holy See, whatever his title is. It would be whoever held that rank in 97 when we got married. He is the dude who represents the Vatican at the United Nations.

Either way, my oldest brother is my best man at my wedding. He and I are waiting for my wife to walk down the aisle when my brother asks.. (all in earshot of everyone and I am mic'd)

"so this dude.. he's a big dude in the church?"
"yea man he's like the bishop of all bishops or something.. I'm not too sure"
"Dude his hat is awesome and it's huge!"
"yeah"
"what's he got to do with the pope?"
*explains*
"Wow so he's like the pope's right hand man?"
"Yeah man... I mean, if the pope was a ****, this dude would be his foreskin"
"Haha... that makes sense with the huge purple hat.. plus it has a nice ring to it.. "
"yeah.. the pope's foreskin is what he shall be known as"

*queue wedding march*

Right.. so flash forward. Photgrapher folds under pressure to get something to my wife. Everyone wants to watch. We get a rough copy. The dude looked me in the eye and told me.. "I didn't edit sound yet."

I had forgotten about the pope's foreskin.

We watch the wedding tape with her family, including one Pataki family member and some other Senators.

So I realize as the scene approaches, what the Photographer meant. And now I have nothing to do but sit there and take it like a man.

No one laughed, and her parents didn't speak to me for months. Honestly it was horrible. But now, we all laugh about it.

[mph4ever]

hahahaha, this could never be a jewish joke

[Berner]

Funny story but I'll leave a lot out to keep it short.

My wife and I were married by the Papal Nuncio, or the Apolostic Holy See, whatever his title is. It would be whoever held that rank in 97 when we got married. He is the dude who represents the Vatican at the United Nations.

Either way, my oldest brother is my best man at my wedding. He and I are waiting for my wife to walk down the aisle when my brother asks.. (all in earshot of everyone and I am mic'd)

"so this dude.. he's a big dude in the church?"
"yea man he's like the bishop of all bishops or something.. I'm not too sure"
"Dude his hat is awesome and it's huge!"
"yeah"
"what's he got to do with the pope?"
*explains*
"Wow so he's like the pope's right hand man?"
"Yeah man... I mean, if the pope was a ****, this dude would be his foreskin"
"Haha... that makes sense with the huge purple hat.. plus it has a nice ring to it.. "
"yeah.. the pope's foreskin is what he shall be known as"

*queue wedding march*

Right.. so flash forward. Photgrapher folds under pressure to get something to my wife. Everyone wants to watch. We get a rough copy. The dude looked me in the eye and told me.. "I didn't edit sound yet."

I had forgotten about the pope's foreskin.

We watch the wedding tape with her family, including one Pataki family member and some other Senators.

So I realize as the scene approaches, what the Photographer meant. And now I have nothing to do but sit there and take it like a man.

No one laughed, and her parents didn't speak to me for months. Honestly it was horrible. But now, we all laugh about it.

Holy **** that's awesome.

Not as bad but at my brother's wedding rehearsal the priest walked in as I was making fun of the hosts and saying how I should have brought some cheese whiz for them. I laughed when I turned around and saw him. He didn't seem impressed.

[Mr. Ron]

Funny story but I'll leave a lot out to keep it short.

My wife and I were married by the Papal Nuncio, or the Apolostic Holy See, whatever his title is. It would be whoever held that rank in 97 when we got married. He is the dude who represents the Vatican at the United Nations.

Either way, my oldest brother is my best man at my wedding. He and I are waiting for my wife to walk down the aisle when my brother asks.. (all in earshot of everyone and I am mic'd)

"so this dude.. he's a big dude in the church?"
"yea man he's like the bishop of all bishops or something.. I'm not too sure"
"Dude his hat is awesome and it's huge!"
"yeah"
"what's he got to do with the pope?"
*explains*
"Wow so he's like the pope's right hand man?"
"Yeah man... I mean, if the pope was a ****, this dude would be his foreskin"
"Haha... that makes sense with the huge purple hat.. plus it has a nice ring to it.. "
"yeah.. the pope's foreskin is what he shall be known as"

*queue wedding march*

Right.. so flash forward. Photgrapher folds under pressure to get something to my wife. Everyone wants to watch. We get a rough copy. The dude looked me in the eye and told me.. "I didn't edit sound yet."

I had forgotten about the pope's foreskin.

We watch the wedding tape with her family, including one Pataki family member and some other Senators.

So I realize as the scene approaches, what the Photographer meant. And now I have nothing to do but sit there and take it like a man.

No one laughed, and her parents didn't speak to me for months. Honestly it was horrible. But now, we all laugh about it.
hahahahaha :chug:

[1338 h4x0r]

umm im not catholic but im offended by how bad that insult it

idk wtf youre getting at

The current Pope was in the Hitlerjugend, not sure if you knew

[Light Flantastic]

that doesnt really mean anything

[Jude]

Why did youse get married by that bigshot

[mph4ever]

the family most likely

[DBoons Ghost]

Why did youse get married by that bigshot

My father-in-law. He's a Supreme Court Judge (Bronx County) among other things. He sits on many boards. Chairs many commisions, is an advocate for Italian American rights, serves as a JAG for various divisions of the Armed Forces.. blah blah. I could go on. He's had the Italian Prime Minister over for dinner a few times, and he also serves as a Diplomat for Italian American Human Rights, and he actually chaired the US HUman Rights commision for 12 years or so back in the day. When he goes to dinners and wears all his crap, he looks absurd. Hats, medals and sashes. He was awarded some sword of Saint Timothy by the Catholic Church. He knew the last Pope well. I dunno.

Truth is he wanted us to marry in Saint Patricks Cathedral here in NYC, by the then Cardinal John O'Connor. I was not wkith this idea. I am a simple man with simple folk in my family. They wouldn't be impressed, they would be uncomfortable. I told him this but he wouldn't listen. So we went for dinner but I got into an argument with his ****ing emminence, so to punish me, he flew the Pope's foreskin in to lecture me, and eventually marry us.

It still turned out to be a stuffy affair, but we got a lot of great gifts from all the ginsos that came. I didn't know her pops was all hooked in like this. It sucks sometimes. But I have met a lot of interesting people.

[mph4ever]

My father-in-law. He's a Supreme Court Judge (Bronx County) among other things. He sits on many boards. Chairs many commisions, is an advocate for Italian American rights, serves as a JAG for various divisions of the Armed Forces.. blah blah. I could go on. He's had the Italian Prime Minister over for dinner a few times, and he also serves as a Diplomat for Italian American Human Rights, and he actually chaired the US HUman Rights commision for 12 years or so back in the day. When he goes to dinners and wears all his crap, he looks absurd. Hats, medals and sashes. He was awarded some sword of Saint Timothy by the Catholic Church. He knew the last Pope well. I dunno.

Truth is he wanted us to marry in Saint Patricks Cathedral here in NYC, by the then Cardinal John O'Connor. I was not wkith this idea. I am a simple man with simple folk in my family. They wouldn't be impressed, they would be uncomfortable. I told him this but he wouldn't listen. So we went for dinner but I got into an argument with his ****ing emminence, so to punish me, he flew the Pope's foreskin in to lecture me, and eventually marry us.

It still turned out to be a stuffy affair, but we got a lot of great gifts from all the ginsos that came. I didn't know her pops was all hooked in like this. It sucks sometimes. But I have met a lot of interesting people.

my friends brother is one of ratzingers apostles. my friend has walked the popes private gardens for a couple of hours with the pope. they have had dinner. i've met him a few times and a couple of his colleagues. they are interesting people. one of them led ratzingers clean up of a seminary in ireland. the stories they could tell

[1338 h4x0r]

semenary

[mph4ever]

semenary
yup, thats why they had to go in apparently. there was quarter of the place painted pink