Essential Hip-Hop Discussion Thread

[pixiesfanyo]

Let's move the discussion about the essential hip-hop thread here. Whether we should poll or simply stick with the format before.

[kingsoby1]

i'm all for whatever. polling might be more fun if we can get people to contribute. the plans are this:

1 - do it like it's done in the stickied thread... have a few people write up their lists

2 - poll people based on 3 separate eras... pre-gangsta, gangsta, modern (5 selections for each, years included tbd)

[Cocaine]

I think the obvious ones should be there, stuff like Ready to Die, 36 Chambers, yknow. But we should also try to include some other classics or near-classics that sometimes get glossed over, **** like Main Ingredient/Mecca & Soul Brother, Capital Punishment, Bizarre Ride II The Pharcyde, Internal Affairs, Organized Konfusion/Stress, The Great Adventures of Slick Rick etc.

[Skyler]

i don't think i'd be able to narrow it down to 5 albums per era tbh

[Correction]

123

[kingsoby1]

good call with the regional organizations. let's start discussing the modern era necessities, from like 98/99 to 08.


[1999] Mos Def - Black on Both Sides
[1999] Pharoahe Monch - Internal Affairs
[1999] The Roots - Things Fall Apart
[2000] Binary Star - Masters of the Universe
[2000] Deltron 3030 - Deltron 3030
[2000] Eminem - The Marshall Mathers LP
[2000] Ghostface Killah - Supreme Clientele
[2000] Reflection Eternal (Talib Kweli & Hi Tek) - Train of Thought
[2001] Cannibal Ox - The Cold Vein
[2001] J-Live - The Best Part
[2001] Jay-Z - The Blueprint
[2002] Blackalicious - Blazing Arrow
[2002] El-P - Fantastic Damage
[2002] Scarface - The Fix
[2003] Brother Ali - Shadows on the Sun
[2003] Immortal Technique - Revolutionary Vol. 2
[2003] INI (prod by Pete Rock) - Center of Attention
[2004] Kanye West - The College Dropout
[2004] Madvillain - Madvillainy
[2004] Masta Ace - A Long Hot Summer
[2005] CunninLynguists - A Piece of Strange
[2005] Edan - Beauty and the Beat
[2005] Little Brother - The Minstrel Show
[2006] Clipse - Hell Hath No Fury
[2006] J Dilla - Donuts
[2006] Lupe Fiasco - Food & Liquor
[2007] Blu & Exile - Below The Heavens
[2007] Blue Sky Black Death & Hell Razah - Razah's Ladder
[2008] Black Milk - Tronic


Additions/ Subtractions?

[Cocaine]

I'd substract a lot of them.
[2003] Brother Ali - Shadows on the Sun
[2003] Immortal Technique - Revolutionary Vol. 2
[2003] INI (prod by Pete Rock) - Center of Attention
[2005] CunninLynguists - A Piece of Strange
[2005] Edan - Beauty and the Beat
[2006] Lupe Fiasco - Food & Liquor
[2007] Blu & Exile - Below The Heavens
[2007] Blue Sky Black Death & Hell Razah - Razah's Ladder

Remember we're talking essential here.

[illmitch]

I think the Southern section really needs to be revised. Artists may be geographically southern, but not musically - Count Bass D, Cunninlynguists, and dead prez dirty south? Really?

Plus, Atmosphere over Brother Ali in the midwest section easily.

[Cocaine]

[1998] Big Punisher - Capital Punishment (are we counting 1998 in this?)

[kingsoby1]

I only included Brother Ali cause I thought people would have a conniption if I didn't. Same thing for Immortal Technique.

Of those you listed, I think Edan and Razah's Ladder are groundbreaking... figured Lupe and Blu were important to other folks.

[Cocaine]

Groundbreaking, maybe. But essential? Eh...And Lupe's album is a good album to get people into the genre but a far cry from essential. It doesn't really bring anything new or above average to the table. I haven't even heard Blu & Exile or the Razah's Ladder tbh.

[kingsoby1]

I think we should leave out 98 tbh, there's a lot of stuff that fits more with the gangsta era than with the modern.

illmitch, i agree with your southern statement... but i really really disagree with the Atmosphere > Brother Ali idea. Brother Ali is easily better than Slug... and they have the same production. name your southern classics though, im not terribly well versed.


tyler, you realllly have to listen to razah's ladder... blu is tight too... he's easily the best mc on the west coast right now.

[sgrevs]

On the Edan album the song I really like is the one with Mr. Lif...that songs rocks so ****ing hard I bump it in the car all the time.

UGK - Underground Kingz

does that count for southern? I'm not so up to date with southern stuff so not sure how essential it really is.

[Cocaine]

I think Brother Ali vs Slug is sort of a pointless battle but Atmosphere had a far bigger hand in the whole backpacker/Minneapolis uprising. Plus I'd honestly take the Lucy Ford EPs and maybe some select later tracks over anything Ali's done. I know there's the ANT connection but I don't really think it equates them.

[illmitch]

UGK most DEFINITELY counts for southern - that's the album that got me into southern rap. I'll compile a list later when I have more time - I'm doing some sociology reading atm. (If you ever have to read Berger and Luckman's The Social Construction of Reality, do yourself a favor and start investigating suicide options).

[Cocaine]

Can't do a Southern Rap list without Goodie Mob's Soul Food. That album is ****ing incredible.

[kingsoby1]

I'll add Underground Kingz to the list above, and take off:

[2003] Brother Ali - Shadows on the Sun
[2003] Immortal Technique - Revolutionary Vol. 2
[2005] CunninLynguists - A Piece of Strange
[2006] Lupe Fiasco - Food & Liquor

Someone pick an atmosphere album, i hate them too much.

I think we should keep INI, Edan, Hell Razah... I'd like some more opinions on those... I'm reallllly not sure about Blu & Exile though. I think it's pretty solid, but I know others worship it.

[illmitch]

God Loves Ugly

[Cocaine]

I would have said Lucy Ford EPs but I can deal with that, too.

[illmitch]

Forgot about Lucy Ford EPs...that actually has some of my favorite Atmosphere, probably moreso than GLU.

[sgrevs]

I haven't heard that Hell Razah album.

M.I.A - either album, both awesome and essential in my eyes.

[niobium]

quasimoto - the unseen (2000)

[(*The Noonward Race*)]

good call with the regional organizations. let's start discussing the modern era necessities, from like 98/99 to 08.


[1999] Mos Def - Black on Both Sides
[1999] Pharoahe Monch - Internal Affairs
[1999] The Roots - Things Fall Apart
[2000] Binary Star - Masters of the Universe
[2000] Deltron 3030 - Deltron 3030
[2000] Eminem - The Marshall Mathers LP
[2000] Ghostface Killah - Supreme Clientele
[2000] Reflection Eternal (Talib Kweli & Hi Tek) - Train of Thought
[2001] Cannibal Ox - The Cold Vein
[2001] J-Live - The Best Part
[2001] Jay-Z - The Blueprint
[2002] Blackalicious - Blazing Arrow
[2002] El-P - Fantastic Damage
[2002] Scarface - The Fix
[2003] Brother Ali - Shadows on the Sun
[2003] Immortal Technique - Revolutionary Vol. 2
[2003] INI (prod by Pete Rock) - Center of Attention
[2004] Kanye West - The College Dropout
[2004] Madvillain - Madvillainy
[2004] Masta Ace - A Long Hot Summer
[2005] CunninLynguists - A Piece of Strange
[2005] Edan - Beauty and the Beat
[2005] Little Brother - The Minstrel Show
[2006] Clipse - Hell Hath No Fury
[2006] J Dilla - Donuts
[2006] Lupe Fiasco - Food & Liquor
[2007] Blu & Exile - Below The Heavens
[2007] Blue Sky Black Death & Hell Razah - Razah's Ladder
[2008] Black Milk - Tronic


Additions/ Subtractions?
[2006] Flying Lotus - 1983

???
Put it in.

It bring the question of things like dabrye, samiyam, gaslamp, lone etc that crowd, they are innovative but as you said, are they essential? As whole I don't think thse should be missed, I choose 1983 as representative. Any thoughts?

[sgrevs]

Agreed

[pixiesfanyo]

"1983" is a classic. like black milk it is totally post dilla.

[(*The Noonward Race*)]

Speaking of, the first thing that I thought of from the sticky is
[2000] Slum Village - Fantastic Vol 2
or should it be Vol 1?

[pixiesfanyo]

i prefer Vol. 2 and thats why i put it there. we'll do a formal thing as soon as the forum gets more organized.

[(*The Noonward Race*)]

oh i missed it

i am still getting used to this posting about music bit

[Rams]

good call with the regional organizations. let's start discussing the modern era necessities, from like 98/99 to 08.


[1999] Mos Def - Black on Both Sides
[1999] Pharoahe Monch - Internal Affairs
[1999] The Roots - Things Fall Apart
[2000] Binary Star - Masters of the Universe
[2000] Deltron 3030 - Deltron 3030
[2000] Eminem - The Marshall Mathers LP
[2000] Ghostface Killah - Supreme Clientele
[2000] Reflection Eternal (Talib Kweli & Hi Tek) - Train of Thought
[2001] Cannibal Ox - The Cold Vein
[2001] J-Live - The Best Part
[2001] Jay-Z - The Blueprint
[2002] Blackalicious - Blazing Arrow
[2002] El-P - Fantastic Damage
[2002] Scarface - The Fix
[2003] Brother Ali - Shadows on the Sun
[2003] Immortal Technique - Revolutionary Vol. 2
[2003] INI (prod by Pete Rock) - Center of Attention
[2004] Kanye West - The College Dropout
[2004] Madvillain - Madvillainy
[2004] Masta Ace - A Long Hot Summer
[2005] CunninLynguists - A Piece of Strange
[2005] Edan - Beauty and the Beat
[2005] Little Brother - The Minstrel Show
[2006] Clipse - Hell Hath No Fury
[2006] J Dilla - Donuts
[2006] Lupe Fiasco - Food & Liquor
[2007] Blu & Exile - Below The Heavens
[2007] Blue Sky Black Death & Hell Razah - Razah's Ladder
[2008] Black Milk - Tronic


Additions/ Subtractions?

Bold = not even close to essential.

[2000]Outkast - Stankonia
[2003]Outkast - Speakerboxxx / The Love Below
[2003]50 Cent - Get Rich or Die Tryin'
[2003]Ludacris - Chicken and Beer
[2005]Lil Wayne - Tha Carter II
[2006]T.I. - King

[kingsoby1]

*in your opinion :)

I think I'm going to exclude artists prolific in the gangsta age... cause they have albums that would be included there as well (ie ghostface).

i can see a lot of arguments on some being non-essential, and i did include a lot of stuff im not a fan of, cause people like it. here's what i was thinking:

[1999] Mos Def - Black on Both Sides
[1999] Pharoahe Monch - Internal Affairs
[1999] The Roots - Things Fall Apart
[2000] Binary Star - Masters of the Universe
[2000] Deltron 3030 - Deltron 3030
[2000] Eminem - The Marshall Mathers LP
[2000] Reflection Eternal (Talib Kweli & Hi Tek) - Train of Thought
[2001] Cannibal Ox - The Cold Vein
[2001] J-Live - The Best Part
[2001] Jay-Z - The Blueprint
[2001] Atmosphere - Lucy Ford EPs
[2002] Blackalicious - Blazing Arrow
[2002] El-P - Fantastic Damage
[2003] INI (prod by Pete Rock) - Center of Attention
[2004] Kanye West - The College Dropout
[2004] Madvillain - Madvillainy
[2004] Masta Ace - A Long Hot Summer
[2005] Edan - Beauty and the Beat
[2006] Clipse - Hell Hath No Fury
[2006] Flying Lotus - 1983
[2006] J Dilla - Donuts
[2007] Blue Sky Black Death & Hell Razah - Razah's Ladder
[2008] Black Milk - Tronic

I removed:

[2000] Ghostface Killah - Supreme Clientele
[2002] Scarface - The Fix
[2003] Brother Ali - Shadows on the Sun
[2003] Immortal Technique - Revolutionary Vol. 2
[2005] CunninLynguists - A Piece of Strange
[2005] Little Brother - The Minstrel Show
[2006] Lupe Fiasco - Food & Liquor
[2007] Blu & Exile - Below The Heavens


I'd like to hear more discussion about Quasimoto - The Unseen, MIA, Flying Lotus, and other trip-hop/hip-hop... maybe we should start a separate trip-hop/ instrumental hip-hop recs thread? Also, I'm not sure about Slum Village... I don't think it's absolutely essential stuff, while it's definitely good stuff.

If anyone wants to support the removed albums, I'm all ears, just putting stuff up to talk about.

[(*The Noonward Race*)]

I was gonna do a flying lotus thread next..

I think we need a thread for people who make beats and rap on this site, and possibly a production sub-forum...

[kingsoby1]

i think we can keep the dilla thread, since he's so prolific, but then start a triphop/ instrumental hiphop thread. i'd like that, since i dont listen to much and could use recs besides the few albums i have.

[(*The Noonward Race*)]

well with the dilla thread im gonna keep adding to it so its not gonna go anywhere.

ill make an instrumental hip hop (/trip hop?) thread

[kingsoby1]

yeah go for it. i only said that cause i considered merging dilla with that thread for a split second.

[(*The Noonward Race*)]

dilla isn't trip hop or instrumental?

[kingsoby1]

yeah, that's why i only thought about it for a split second... was only based off donuts.

[kingsoby1]

bump any new ideas?

what about some mainstream stuff in this time period? I was thinking something from TI, Luda, Wayne, i dont know. i know a lotta heads hate wayne, but he has made quite an impact.

[Rams]

[1997]Master P - Ghetto D
[1998]DMX - It's Dark and Hell is Hot
[1999]Rawkus Records - Soundbombing 2
[2000]Outkast - Stankonia
[2000]Nelly - Country Grammer
[2003]Outkast - Speakerboxxx / The Love Below
[2003]50 Cent - Get Rich or Die Tryin'
[2003]Ludacris - Chicken and Beer
[2005]Lil Wayne - Tha Carter II
[2006]T.I. - King

[illmitch]

maybe we could try having essential lists of every "genre" (old school, golden era, east coast, west coast, dirty south, midwest, underground, etc), and have the best of each of those lists into one single, smaller list?

[Dave de Sylvia]

Genres overlap too much, at least the ones you named do.

It's probably better to split them into "essential" and "most essential": that way you can separate your EPMDs and your Rootses from your Sage Francises and your Brother Alis.

[Cocaine]

i still like the idea of just doing voting/nominations threads. adding an album or two at a time then going "nope" isn't gonna go anywhere.

[ATM]

^Nice avatar.

[illmitch]

yeah, I was thinking that exactly as I was writing it.

[niobium]

agreed

file lord finesse & dj mike smooth - funky technician

[niobium]

hey when we get the nomination threads out of the way maybe we can start breaking the era format into more useful subgenre/locale/label dissections, what the old essential list did. either way three epochs for the modern era of hip hop is broad. having a main essentials list eliminates some of the other good albums too.

[Meatplow]

idk why Black Star - Mos Def & Talib Kweli Are Black Star is on that essential list, it wasn't bad to me but every hip-hop related forum i've seen discussing it claims it is a terrible album :/

also Jurassic 5's Power In Numbers is an album I would like to see added

[Cocaine]

every hip-hop related forum i've seen discussing it claims it is a terrible album :/
what hip-hop forums are you going to? if anything people tend to over-praise Black Star

[Meatplow]

just a couple of no name ones i can't remember and didn't stick around on long enough going through my hip-hop phase a long while back, plus the users in the waffles hip-hop thread seemed to hate it.

I may have gotten a distorted impression, nonetheless I wasn't particular keen on it myself. it was the one album out of that list I listened to that I personally disagreed with though so thats okay.

[Cocaine]

I think it's great. Maybe essential, just not obviously, but at the very least above average. I don't think it's the timeless classic a lot of people make it out to be though but it's at least a 3.5-4/5.

[Meatplow]

the first couple of tracks at the very least I thought were excellent then it seemed to taper off. maybe I should give it another listen idk, I was oversaturated in new hip-hop at the time :]

[kingsoby1]

if you haven't noticed the waffles thread regulars are massive elitists for the most part. they're such contrarian hipsters at times it hurts.

[niobium]

yeah, avoid waffles

the what forums aren't as bad but still degradable. you'll notice how the forum's music taste matches their most downloaded albums. and god the people are lame.

i don't get the praise for that album either. i never saw anything in talib kweli to begin with.

[horseypie]

i really like talib kweli on the black star album, much more than mos def. i just wish his solo stuff was as good. he does have good tracks though.

but i agree that black star should be up there, it was basically the big start for their careers wasnt it?

[nevertoolate]

I'd really love to see an 85-97 list. I might compile one myself any objections?

[niobium]

we're getting around to it. but no go ahead and post it

[nevertoolate]

ok cool, sorry haven't posted here for ages, I just have a lot to do with that era. I'll just wait for you regs to do it, and i'll check it out.

[Meatplow]

if you haven't noticed the waffles thread regulars are massive elitists for the most part. they're such contrarian hipsters at times it hurts.

yeah, avoid waffles

the what forums aren't as bad but still degradable. you'll notice how the forum's music taste matches their most downloaded albums. and god the people are lame.

i've come across plenty of elitist types on waffles, it is remarkably easy to troll them though and at their most childish they often get the piss taken out of them :p

the boards aren't that bad, I post there a lot and have gotten plenty of elite recommendations. there are some really good users on there