Us Army Suicide Rate Hits Record High

[Sk0rpi0n]

The rate of suicides among soldiers in the US army has risen to a record level for the second year in a row.

The army said there were 128 confirmed suicides in 2008, with a further 15 deaths still under investigation.

Military officials said they did not know why the number has kept increasing but that the stress of conflicts overseas had had a significant impact.

The army has said it is committed to addressing the issue and has introduced training to raise awareness.

"This is a challenge of the highest order for us," said US Army Secretary Pete Geren.

"Why do the numbers keep going up? We cannot tell you. But we can tell you that across the army, we're committed to doing everything we can to address the problem."

Conflict stress

About 35% of the suicides were of soldiers who had never been deployed, while 30% were soldiers who were on active service - three quarters of them on their first tour of duty.

Another 35% took place after deployment, mostly more than a year after the soldier had returned home.

The rise means that the military suicide rate is proportionally higher than the rate among American civilians for the first time.

General Peter Chiarelli, vice chief of the army, said he had "no doubt" that the stress of the ongoing conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan was a factor in the rising suicide rates.

He said that long tours of duty and the high pressure of being in combat zones was putting a strain on service personnel and their families.

The US military said it has introduced training to make soldiers more aware of suicidal behaviour in themselves and others, and to reduce the stigma of seeking help.

It has also launched a long-term research programme into the issue, in conjunction with the National Institute of Mental Health.


Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7859797.stm

A pretty high cost for "mission accomplished" in Iraq. No?
Discuss.

[Seafroggys]

I had a cousin tried to hang himself a year ago or so. Turns out he was ordered to kill a deserter while in Iraq, and he did....

[Iskandar]

That's horrible.

[Seafroggys]

Yeah plus his wife left him and filed a restraining order for herself and her son.

But I just found out about the Iraq thing today while visiting my grandparents...probably the main thing that tipped him off.

[Iscariot]

This doesn't surprise me at all. I went through more than a year long bout of depression after I came home with a broken ankle from Ft. Knox because of having to deal with the majority of my friends and battle buddies abusing pain killers and killing/attempting to kill themselves.

My best friend back there overdosed on pills, another friend cut his wrists, one guy jumped into a wood chipper, and the list goes on. And the idea that you can go speak to the Chaplin or talk to a DI when you're feeling displaced is a joke. Making an appointment with the Chaplin takes weeks and by that point it can be too late, and the DIs have no interest, save for a few, in the problems of their recruits. "Get the hell away from me", "I don't give a damn", "Suck it up and keep it to yourself", and "Why don't you just write home to mommy about it?" are ridiculously common responses when you try to approach an instructor about personal distress.

It's understood that they're responsible for turning recruits into soldiers, but they're also directly responsible for the well-being and personal safety of all those recruits below them.

And the suicide rate for those overseas or those who have cycled home needs no explanation.

[Tillius]

one guy jumped into a wood chipper

Jesus Christ.

[Iscariot]

That was pretty much everyone's reaction.

TBH I've been more open about this on here than I have been with my family for the most part. My mom knows a little about what went on while I was there, and she asks sometimes if I want to talk about anything because she says I spend the half the night screaming and thrashing in my sleep, but I just tell her it's nothing I want to get into.

Once again the internet serves as a better release than actual conversation.

[Tillius]

Agreed.

As time goes on I like you more. Other than this whole army thing you're a lot like me.

[Iscariot]

We're not going to hug are we? Because if you try I might hit you.

:p

[Tillius]

I'll at least try to refrain from hugging you while I'm building up this erection for this test of yours.

[Iscariot]

It's easy man. I just thought about your mom and it was all I could do to keep from going off like a fire hose. :smoke:

[Tillius]

:upset:

[Against Miik!]

It's easy man. I just thought about your mom and it was all I could do to keep from going off like a fire hose. :smoke:

way to ease the sexual tension with a yer mom joke

[siva_chair]

Some people are just not cut out for that line of work, no matter what training they've recieved.

[Aaron]

Siva, do you honestly agree with the stuff you spout?

[siva_chair]

Siva, do you honestly agree with the stuff you spout?

Yeah of course I do.

What did I say to get your panties in a bunch this time?

[Iscariot]

Some people are just not cut out for that line of work, no matter what training they've recieved.

Yes, personal qualifications totally excuse the ridiculous suicide rates and account for the things I've personally witnessed. Thanks for chiming in.

[siva_chair]

Yes, personal qualifications totally excuse the ridiculous suicide rates and account for the things I've personally witnessed. Thanks for chiming in.

Oh wow look a strawman.

[Iscariot]

Oh wow look a strawman.

If irony were an anvil I'd feel like Daffy Duck right now.

[Sk0rpi0n]

I agree.

Western culture makes so much of physical toughness in the armed forces but seems wholly ignorant on what it means to be mentally prepared for extraordinary circumstances. I believe there has been some progress though, as most people now seem to be aware of PTS, PTSD and its prevalence in the armed forces.
Some of my Canadian friends returning from Afghanistan were basically forced into therapy. I think that is a step in the right direction. Lord knows that "keeping it to yourself" can't really make it any better.

[Murdererer]

im too pretty for the army

[Iscariot]

I agree.

Western culture makes so much of physical toughness in the armed forces but seems wholly ignorant on what it means to be mentally prepared for extraordinary circumstances. I believe there has been some progress though, as most people now seem to be aware of PTS, PTSD and its prevalence in the armed forces.
Some of my Canadian friends returning from Afghanistan were basically forced into therapy. I think that is a step in the right direction. Lord knows that "keeping it to yourself" can't really make it any better.

When keeping it to yourself hurts less than letting it out, it's clear which option someone will take.

[siva_chair]

If irony were an anvil I'd feel like Daffy Duck right now.

If this line wasn't really lame I'd be laughing right now.

[McP3000]

yeah its so lame dude

[Jude]

I only know one person who's in the army (my friend's fiance or fiancee however the **** you spell it) and he's supposed to be getting done this summer

so beyond that I'm not all that concerned about people in the army dying, the amount of people who have died from our army is pretty insignificant next to the amount of Iraqi civilians who are dead or maimed because of us

[Sk0rpi0n]

True enough. That knowledge of suffering civilians is undoubtedly one contributing factor to the high suicide rates. Human suffering transcends all cultural boundaries.

[DBoons Ghost]

Mostly because they're fighting a war they don't believe in for a cause they cannot agree with.

Honest men and women flocked to their country's aid in WW2 but after that it gets tough. My father fought in the Korean War to which when asked he will happily say it was all worth it to keep those people free from commie scum. Viet Nam was a little different because of the majority of combatants drafted in.

All my buddies coming home from Iraq said it was hard because no one believed in what they were doing and most of them view themselves no better then common murderers. All my friends joined the Armed Forces for college money or job training and all of them are patriotic in a way but not enough to justify fighting in this war. In the old days we just had a different caliber of man. (WW2)

I have no personal way to relate or understand or identify with any of that but much like Viet Nam if your country isn't behind what you're doing and the lives you're claiming to save in Iraq hate you as much or more then your enemy it's very hard to see any good in what you're doing.

[siva_chair]

Mostly because they're fighting a war they don't believe in for a cause they cannot agree with.

Honest men and women flocked to their country's aid in WW2 but after that it gets tough. My father fought in the Korean War to which when asked he will happily say it was all worth it to keep those people free from commie scum. Viet Nam was a little different because of the majority of combatants drafted in.

All my buddies coming home from Iraq said it was hard because no one believed in what they were doing and most of them view themselves no better then common murderers. All my friends joined the Armed Forces for college money or job training and all of them are patriotic in a way but not enough to justify fighting in this war. In the old days we just had a different caliber of man. (WW2)

I have no personal way to relate or understand or identify with any of that but much like Viet Nam if your country isn't behind what you're doing and the lives you're claiming to save in Iraq hate you as much or more then your enemy it's very hard to see any good in what you're doing.

Actually more people were drafted for WWII than enlisted. For Korea it was a little over half that were drafted.

[maxwell_1888]

Some people are just not cut out for that line of work, no matter what training they've recieved.

It's no secret that a conscience can sometimes be a pest.

[siva_chair]

It's no secret that a conscience can sometimes be a pest.

Indeed.

Or that some people just simply do not have the psychological fortitude for war.

[Mr. Ron]

Odds are it stems from extended tours of duty.

[Iskandar]

Asking a person to go into a war zone for months is pretty tough on anyone, even battle-hardened soldiers. They're going to be seeing their comrades injured and killed, civilians killed, and face the constant threat of being killed themselves.

[Jude]

Indeed.

Or that some people just simply do not have the psychological fortitude for war.

I like how you can rephrase "lack of conscience and humanity" as "psychological fortitude" and it sounds like a virtue

[Dimmu Burger]

A lot of it is post traumatic stress disorder. As somebody who has dealt with this, though to a much smaller degree, it takes a huge toll on somebody. Having to relive the horrors that you've seen over and over all day ever day and while you're sleeping for months and months is like torture. Some people don't have much to live for in the first place, so this is how they choose to deal with it. They need to have a battalion of shrinks over there and over here to deal with these guys. It's the least we can do for them.

[Der Übermensch]

Actually more people were drafted for WWII than enlisted. For Korea it was a little over half that were drafted.

And the majority of soldiers in Nam were not draftees :)


Or that some people just simply do not have the psychological fortitude for war.
98% of soldiers will eventually break down with out removal from the frontlines (generally within 60 days). 2% are "aggressive psychopathic personalities" according to the study.

[1338 h4x0r]

Or that some people just simply do not have the psychological fortitude for war.

I'm willing to guess that you have not served in combat.

[Angmar]

Siva in the army? yaaaaaaaa

[1338 h4x0r]

The Army rejected siva because his pussy *** would have probably gone 'Leonard Laurence' on the senior DI as soon as he got his hands on a gun.

[siva_chair]

I like how you can rephrase "lack of conscience and humanity" as "psychological fortitude" and it sounds like a virtue

I like how you confuse "lack of conscience and humanity" with "psychological fortitude." There are plenty of people with conscience and humanity that have seen and been in horrible situations that didn't psychologically break down. Some people's psychological strength is greater than others. This is just the way it is. It has nothing to do a lack of humanity or conscience.

And the majority of soldiers in Nam were not draftees :)

Nope never said they were.

98% of soldiers will eventually break down with out removal from the frontlines (generally within 60 days). 2% are "aggressive psychopathic personalities" according to the study.

Ok?

I'm willing to guess that you have not served in combat.

I'm willing to guess that is completely irrelevant.

The Army rejected siva because his pussy *** would have probably gone 'Leonard Laurence' on the senior DI as soon as he got his hands on a gun.

You have to try to be in the Army to be rejected from it. Nice try dipshit.

[1338 h4x0r]

I'm willing to guess that is completely irrelevant.

So you have just admitted, albeit tacitly, to being an Internet tough guy

Awesome

[siva_chair]

So you have just admitted, albeit tacitly, to being an Internet tough guy

Awesome

Umm where?

[1338 h4x0r]

You haven't actually been in the military

LOL

[siva_chair]

You haven't actually been in the military

LOL

And this is relevant how?

[1338 h4x0r]

You're a gun nut with no combat experience, that's how it's relevant

[siva_chair]

You're a gun nut with no combat experience, that's how it's relevant

Umm that has nothing to do with anything.

I suppose you have lots of combat experience amirite corporal assburgers?

[1338 h4x0r]

I suppose you have lots of combat experience amirite corporal assburgers?

No, and I don't carry myself like I do either

BTW, I'm Standartenführer Assburgers, not Corporal

[siva_chair]

No, and I don't carry myself like I do either

And neither do I. But that is cool that you like to make things up. So does my 8 year old cousin.

[1338 h4x0r]

What did I, quote, 'make up'?

[mph4ever]

joining any army with the potential to send you to front line of combat is attempted suicide

/js

[siva_chair]

What did I, quote, 'make up'?

That I carry myself like I have combat experience.

[catharsis]

It's interesting, I think, that military service can have just the opposite effect as this on people. My brother-in-law was in an extremely bad way just before he joined the military. He was doing a lot of drugs, some of the worst ones, and my sister had left him at the time. From the time that he signed up to the time he deployed, he's clean, he and my sister are married, and despite likely being worried about his situation overseas, he is happier than I have seen him in a long time.

[1338 h4x0r]

That I carry myself like I have combat experience.

Except for a template libertarian obsession with guns and acting like a tough guy

On reflection, I suppose that might be a little different though. No code of honor, real or imagined, is involved for starters

[siva_chair]

Except for a template libertarian obsession with guns and acting like a tough guy

On reflection, I suppose that might be a little different though. No code of honor, real or imagined, is involved for starters

Where have I "acted like a tough guy" exactly? Oh I forgot you like to make **** up.

[Der Übermensch]

Nope never said they were.

Huh? Are you denying that stat? Or are you agreeing with me? Cause all I was doing was furthering your point and you seem to be antagonizing over it.

Ok?
"Ok" so this: "Or that some people just simply do not have the psychological fortitude for war." is utter bullshit. No one has the psychological fortitude for war. Endless studies show that except for the truly insane, everyone will be come a psychological causaulty eventually.

It's interesting, I think, that military service can have just the opposite effect as this on people. My brother-in-law was in an extremely bad way just before he joined the military. He was doing a lot of drugs, some of the worst ones, and my sister had left him at the time. From the time that he signed up to the time he deployed, he's clean, he and my sister are married, and despite likely being worried about his situation overseas, he is happier than I have seen him in a long time.
Yeah, I had a friend like that. I have a lot who are ****ed up, but he surpassed all of them, but he joined the Marines and got his life turned around.

[siva_chair]

Huh? Are you denying that stat? Or are you agreeing with me? Cause all I was doing was furthering your point and you seem to be antagonizing over it.

No I was agreeing with you. I thought you were insinuating I said the contrary.


"Ok" so this: "Or that some people just simply do not have the psychological fortitude for war." is utter bullpoop. No one has the psychological fortitude for war. Endless studies show that except for the truly insane, everyone will be come a psychological causaulty eventually.

No, there are lots of vets that have intense and prolonged combat experience that do not psychologically break down and commit suicide. I know some of them, as I work with them.

[1338 h4x0r]

"Ok" so this: "Or that some people just simply do not have the psychological fortitude for war." is utter bullshit. No one has the psychological fortitude for war. Endless studies show that except for the truly insane, everyone will be come a psychological causaulty eventually

Brass-balled libertarians with lots of hair on their chest drink combat trauma after a long workin' day and piss out the tears of napalmed children the next

siva_chair is one such man

No, there are lots of vets that have intense and prolonged combat experience that do not psychologically break down and commit suicide. I know some of them, as I work with them.

Who would have thought that soldiers and, in particular, male soldiers (i.e., the bulk of them) keep **** to themselves

I'm beginning to doubt your masculinity

[siva_chair]

Brass-balled libertarians with lots of hair on their chest drink combat trauma after a long workin' day and piss out the tears of napalmed children the next

siva_chair is one such man

It's funny because I've never claimed to be tough. It sounds to me like I hit some nerve with you and now you are upset.

Who would have thought that soldiers and, in particular, male soldiers (i.e., the bulk of them) keep **** to themselves

I'm beginning to doubt your masculinity

I forgot, you know way more about people you have never met than I do about people I have met and work with on a daily basis.

[1338 h4x0r]

I'll bet someone you know will commit suicide and it will totally surprise you

[siva_chair]

I'll bet someone you know will commit suicide and it will totally surprise you

ITT idiots make unfounded speculations.

[1338 h4x0r]

It's statistically likely

[Der Übermensch]

No, there are lots of vets that have intense and prolonged combat experience that do not psychologically break down and commit suicide. I know some of them, as I work with them.

I'm to lazy to write it all out, so just look up Swank and Marchands study on psychiatric casualties in war.

[siva_chair]

I'm to lazy to write it all out, so just look up Swank and Marchands study on psychiatric casualties in war.

I've no doubt that there are lots of psychological casualties of war, nor have I ever denied that. I'm simply saying there are those that are much better equipped psychologically to deal with this kind of thing and it isn't solely due to some "lack of humanity or conscience."