President Obama Addresses The Muslim World

[JohnXDoe]

President Barack Obama gave an extraordinary interview to Al-Arabiya Television overnight and stated he wishes to listen to the Arab / Muslim world rather then dictate, and that he could see in the future a Palestinian state, among other things. These are not words we have heard from a U.S. leader in some time and it certainly signifies a big shift in attitude and policy toward Arab / Muslim nations. Just want some opinions and thoughts from those who are more in the know then I, and do you think he is on the right track and can he succeed in bringing a long lasting peace and understanding between the U.S. and former and present enemies? He even acknowledges he understands why we are "demonized" in a very real way in the eyes of many mainstream Muslims in a religious context. I am posting the transcript along with a link to the video and same transcript

Link

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/01/27/politics/politicalhotsheet/entry4754691.shtml


Intro

(Al Arabiya)
President Obama reached out to the Muslim world Monday in an exclusive interview on Arab television network Al Arabiya.

"In all my travels throughout the Muslim world, what I've come to understand is that regardless of your faith – and America is a country of Muslims, Jews, Christians, non-believers – regardless of your faith, people all have certain common hopes and common dreams," Obama said in the wide ranging interview, a transcript of which can be found below.

The freshly-minted president spoke about the prospects for peace in the Middle East, the nuclear threat posed by Iran and the stake that America has in the overall well-being of the Arab world. Mr. Obama praised the people of Iran, but chided their government for stirring up trouble in the region.

"Iran has acted in ways that's not conducive to peace and prosperity in the region: their threats against Israel; their pursuit of a nuclear weapon which could potentially set off an arms race in the region that would make everybody less safe; their support of terrorist organizations in the past – none of these things have been helpful," Obama said.

Transcript

AL ARABIYA: Mr. President, thank you for this opportunity, we really appreciate it.

PRESIDENT OBAMA: Thank you so much.

AL ARABIYA: Sir, you just met with your personal envoy to the Middle East, Senator (George) Mitchell. Obviously, his first task is to consolidate the cease-fire, but, beyond that, you've been saying that you want to pursue actively and aggressively peacemaking between the Palestinians and the Israelis. Tell us a little bit about how do you see your personal role, because, you know, if the President of the United States is not involved, nothing happens – as the history of peacemaking shows. Will you be proposing ideas, pitching proposals, parameters, as one of your predecessors did? Or just urging the parties to come up with their own resolutions, as your immediate predecessor did?

PRESIDENT OBAMA: Well, I think the most important thing is for the United States to get engaged right away, and George Mitchell is somebody of enormous stature. He is one of the few people who have international experience brokering peace deals.

And so what I told him is start by listening, because all too often the United States starts by dictating - in the past on some of these issues - and we don't always know all the factors that are involved. So let's listen. He's going to be speaking to all the major parties involved, and he will then report back to me. From there we will formulate a specific response.

Ultimately, we cannot tell either the Israelis or the Palestinians what's best for them. They're going to have to make some decisions. But I do believe that the moment is ripe for both sides to realize that the path that they are on is one that is not going to result in prosperity and security for their people, and that instead, it's time to return to the negotiating table.

And it's going to be difficult, it's going to take time. I don't want to prejudge many of these issues, and I want to make sure that expectations are not raised so that we think that this is going to be resolved in a few months. But if we start the steady progress on these issues, I'm absolutely confident that the United States – working in tandem with the European Union, with Russia, with all the Arab states in the region - I'm absolutely certain that we can make significant progress.

AL ARABIYA: You've been saying essentially that we should not look at these issues - like the Palestinian-Israeli track and separation from the border region - you've been talking about a kind of holistic approach to the region. Are we expecting a different paradigm in the sense that in the past one of the critiques - at least from the Arab side, the Muslim side - is that everything the Americans always tested with the Israelis, if it works. Now there is an Arab peace plan, there is a regional aspect to it, and you've indicated that. Would there be any shift, a paradigm shift?

Watch the second segment of the Al Arabiya interview below.


PRESIDENT OBAMA: Well, here's what I think is important. Look at the proposal that was put forth by King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia…

AL ARABIYA: Right.

PRESIDENT OBAMA: I might not agree with every aspect of the proposal, but it took great courage...

AL ARABIYA: Absolutely.

PRESIDENT OBAMA: ...To put forward something that is as significant as that. I think that there are ideas across the region of how we might pursue peace.

I do think that it is impossible for us to think only in terms of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict and not think in terms of what's happening with Syria or Iran or Lebanon or Afghanistan and Pakistan. These things are interrelated. And what I've said, and I think Hillary Clinton has expressed this in her confirmation, is that if we are looking at the region as a whole and communicating a message to the Arab world and the Muslim world, that we are ready to initiate a new partnership based on mutual respect and mutual interest, then I think that we can make significant progress.

Now, Israel is a strong ally of the United States. They will not stop being a strong ally of the United States. And I will continue to believe that Israel's security is paramount. But I also believe that there are Israelis who recognize that it is important to achieve peace. They will be willing to make sacrifices if the time is appropriate and if there is serious partnership on the other side.

And so what we want to do is to listen, set aside some of the preconceptions that have existed and have built up over the last several years. And I think if we do that, then there's a possibility at least of achieving some breakthroughs.

AL ARABIYA: I want to ask you about the broader Muslim world, but let me – one final thing about the Palestinian-Israeli theater; There are many Palestinians and Israelis who are very frustrated now with the current conditions and they are losing hope, they are disillusioned, and they believe that time is running out on the two-state solution because, mainly because of the settlement activities in Palestinian-occupied territories. Will it still be possible to see a Palestinian state – and you know the contours of it – within the first Obama administration?

PRESIDENT OBAMA: I think it is possible for us to see a Palestinian state - I'm not going to put a time frame on it - that is contiguous, that allows freedom of movement for its people, that allows for trade with other countries, that allows the creation of businesses and commerce so that people have a better life.

And, look, I think anybody who has studied the region recognizes that the situation for the ordinary Palestinian in many cases has not improved. And the bottom line in all these talks and all these conversations is, is a child in the Palestinian Territories going to be better off? Do they have a future for themselves? And is the child in Israel going to feel confident about his or her safety and security? And if we can keep our focus on making their lives better and look forward, and not simply think about all the conflicts and tragedies of the past, then I think that we have an opportunity to make real progress.

But it is not going to be easy, and that's why we've got George Mitchell going there. This is somebody with extraordinary patience as well as extraordinary skill, and that's what's going to be necessary.

[JohnXDoe]

AL ARABIYA: Absolutely. Let me take a broader look at the whole region. You are planning to address the Muslim world in your first 100 days from a Muslim capital. And everybody is speculating about the capital. (Laughter.) If you have anything further, that would be great.

How concerned are you – because, let me tell you, honestly, when I see certain things about America – in some parts, I don't want to exaggerate – there is a demonization of America.

PRESIDENT OBAMA: Absolutely.

AL ARABIYA: It's become like a new religion, and like a new religion it has new converts - like a new religion has its own high priests.

PRESIDENT OBAMA: Right.

AL ARABIYA:It's only a religious text.

PRESIDENT OBAMA: Right.

AL ARABIYA: And in the last – since 9/11 and because of Iraq, that alienation is wider between the Americans and - and in generations past, the United States was held high. It was the only Western power with no colonial legacy.

PRESIDENT OBAMA: Right.

AL ARABIYA: How concerned are you and – because people sense that you have a different political discourse. And I think, judging by (inaudible) and Zawahiri and Osama bin Laden and all these, you know – a chorus.

PRESIDENT OBAMA: Yes, I noticed this. They seem nervous.

AL ARABIYA: They seem very nervous, exactly. Now, tell me why they should be more nervous?

PRESIDENT OBAMA: Well, I think that when you look at the rhetoric that they've been using against me before I even took office .

AL ARABIYA:I know, I know.

PRESIDENT OBAMA: ...What that tells me is that their ideas are bankrupt. There's no actions that they've taken that say a child in the Muslim world is getting a better education because of them, or has better health care because of them.

In my inauguration speech, I spoke about: You will be judged on what you've built, not what you've destroyed. And what they've been doing is destroying things. And over time, I think the Muslim world has recognized that that path is leading no place, except more death and destruction.

Now, my job is to communicate the fact that the United States has a stake in the well-being of the Muslim world, that the language we use has to be a language of respect. I have Muslim members of my family. I have lived in Muslim countries.

AL ARABIYA:The largest one.

PRESIDENT OBAMA: The largest one, Indonesia. And so what I want to communicate is the fact that in all my travels throughout the Muslim world, what I've come to understand is that regardless of your faith – and America is a country of Muslims, Jews, Christians, non-believers – regardless of your faith, people all have certain common hopes and common dreams.

And my job is to communicate to the American people that the Muslim world is filled with extraordinary people who simply want to live their lives and see their children live better lives. My job to the Muslim world is to communicate that the Americans are not your enemy. We sometimes make mistakes. We have not been perfect. But if you look at the track record, as you say, America was not born as a colonial power, and that the same respect and partnership that America had with the Muslim world as recently as 20 or 30 years ago, there's no reason why we can't restore that. And that I think is going to be an important task.

But ultimately, people are going to judge me not by my words but by my actions and my administration's actions. And I think that what you will see over the next several years is that I'm not going to agree with everything that some Muslim leader may say, or what's on a television station in the Arab world - but I think that what you'll see is somebody who is listening, who is respectful, and who is trying to promote the interests not just of the United States, but also ordinary people who right now are suffering from poverty and a lack of opportunity. I want to make sure that I'm speaking to them, as well.

AL ARABIYA: Tell me, time is running out, any decision on from where you will be visiting the Muslim world?

PRESIDENT OBAMA: Well, I'm not going to break the news right here.

AL ARABIYA: Afghanistan?

PRESIDENT OBAMA: But maybe next time. But it is something that is going to be important. I want people to recognize, though, that we are going to be making a series of initiatives. Sending George Mitchell to the Middle East is fulfilling my campaign promise that we're not going to wait until the end of my administration to deal with Palestinian and Israeli peace, we're going to start now. It may take a long time to do, but we're going to do it now. We're going to follow through on our commitment for me to address the Muslim world from a Muslim capital. We are going to follow through on many of my commitments to do a more effective job of reaching out, listening, as well as speaking to the Muslim world.

And you're going to see me following through with dealing with a drawdown of troops in Iraq, so that Iraqis can start taking more responsibility. And finally, I think you've already seen a commitment in terms of closing Guantanamo, and making clear that even as we are decisive in going after terrorist organizations that would kill innocent civilians, that we're going to do so on our terms, and we're going to do so respecting the rule of law that I think makes America great.

AL ARABIYA: President Bush framed the war on terror conceptually in a way that was very broad, "war on terror," and used sometimes certain terminology that the many people - Islamic fascism. You've always framed it in a different way, specifically against one group called al Qaeda and their collaborators. And is this one way of...

PRESIDENT OBAMA: I think that you're making a very important point. And that is that the language we use matters. And what we need to understand is, is that there are extremist organizations – whether Muslim or any other faith in the past – that will use faith as a justification for violence. We cannot paint with a broad brush a faith as a consequence of the violence that is done in that faith's name.

And so you will, I think, see our administration be very clear in distinguishing between organizations like al Qaeda – that espouse violence, espouse terror and act on it – and people who may disagree with my administration and certain actions, or may have a particular viewpoint in terms of how their countries should develop. We can have legitimate disagreements but still be respectful. I cannot respect terrorist organizations that would kill innocent civilians and we will hunt them down.

But to the broader Muslim world what we are going to be offering is a hand of friendship.

AL ARABIYA:Can I end with a question on Iran and Iraq then quickly?

PRESIDENT OBAMA: It's up to the team...

AL ARABIYA: Will the United States ever live with a nuclear Iran? And if not, how far are you going in the direction of preventing it?

PRESIDENT OBAMA: You know, I said during the campaign that it is very important for us to make sure that we are using all the tools of U.S. power, including diplomacy, in our relationship with Iran.

Now, the Iranian people are a great people, and Persian civilization is a great civilization. Iran has acted in ways that's not conducive to peace and prosperity in the region: their threats against Israel; their pursuit of a nuclear weapon which could potentially set off an arms race in the region that would make everybody less safe; their support of terrorist organizations in the past – none of these things have been helpful.

But I do think that it is important for us to be willing to talk to Iran, to express very clearly where our differences are, but where there are potential avenues for progress. And we will, over the next several months, be laying out our general framework and approach. And as I said during my inauguration speech, if countries like Iran are willing to unclench their fist, they will find an extended hand from us.

[DBoons Ghost]

I am falling in love with this man.

If he pulls this off. He will be our new Messiah. I'm going to go ahead and say that Obama is the second coming of Christ.

[Mister_Che]

ah knew he was one o dem muslins

[mph4ever]

I am falling in love with this man.

If he pulls this off. He will be our new Messiah. I'm going to go ahead and say that Obama is the second coming of Christ.

what if you don't believe in the first one?



long op, will have to read later when time permits

[JohnXDoe]

i never thought i'd hear an American President speak like this. NEVER.

" i have muslim members of my family."

"christians, jews, muslims, and non believers share common hopes"

"build, not destroy"

etc...

idk what it all means for the future. its just so unusual its hopeful and kind of frightening at the same time.

we've heard the rhetoric before, yes. but with Obama its apparent it goes beyond rhetoric. he means it

[DBoons Ghost]

what if you don't believe in the first one?



long op, will have to read later when time permits

Well, I don't but it's still fun to say.

Obama is crazy if he thinks the US won't have to change their support for Israel though, if he plans to make any progress in this endeavor.

[Jude]

Obama is crazy if he thinks the US won't have to change their support for Israel though, if he plans to make any progress in this endeavor.

For real

I (and I am pretty sure, the entire Arab world, Christians included) am not buying it as anything more than talk, until he makes it clear that he's not going to go on unconditionally supporting Israel - which he has been doing, by his failure to call them out.

[siva_chair]

Why would anyone buy anything a politician says as anything more than talk? :p

[Already_Taken]

ur just mad this government thing might work. (like it hasn't already)

[siva_chair]

It's worked? Really? It's been a whole week.

[Against Miik!]

I would still like to see Obama take a strong stance against Israel, but hey, we have to be realistic. He's taking baby steps though, it seems. During the election he didn't really talk about his ties to Islam (living in Indonesia, having Muslim family members etc...) but now it seems he is trying to embrace to seek a common ground with this part of the world.

What Obama did here was long overdue. Bush never did anything like this, and his actions bred hatred for the US all across the arab world. I don't think a lot of arabs knew that we understand the difference between a terrorist and your everyday Muslim. Although it may be only rhetoric, I think Obama is already leaps and bounds ahead of the Bush administration as far as reaching out to arab world and recognizing that although we live under difference circumstances, ultimately, we all strive for the same things. This idea seems like common sense to many of us, but you can't exactly write that message on a bomb.

btw, I disagree with Obama on a lot of things, on a lot of basic principles. This stimulus package thing is questionable, but besides that, he couldn't have had a better first week in office (realistically).

[Shell]

For real

I (and I am pretty sure, the entire Arab world, Christians included) am not buying it as anything more than talk, until he makes it clear that he's not going to go on unconditionally supporting Israel - which he has been doing, by his failure to call them out.

Ultimately, we cannot tell either the Israelis or the Palestinians what's best for them. They're going to have to make some decisions. But I do believe that the moment is ripe for both sides to realize that the path that they are on is one that is not going to result in prosperity and security for their people, and that instead, it's time to return to the negotiating table.

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but I'd say he's maybe disagreeing a bit with how Israel has handled things lately.

[Against Miik!]

Ultimately, we cannot tell either the Israelis or the Palestinians what's best for them. They're going to have to make some decisions. But I do believe that the moment is ripe for both sides to realize that the path that they are on is one that is not going to result in prosperity and security for their people, and that instead, it's time to return to the negotiating table.

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but I'd say he's maybe disagreeing a bit with how Israel has handled things lately.

Back in I want to say March, he actually did come out against Israel a little more explicitly. I forget exactly what he said though. Obviously it was short lived, as he realized how difficult it would be for a Palestinian sympathizer to get into the White House.

[Cesar21]

That was a great interview, setting a ground floor already in his approach to the musulmin world.

Also, you can't deny, that you positively loved writing "PRESIDENT Obama" in the tittle of the thread didn't you?

[Jude]

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but I'd say he's maybe disagreeing a bit with how Israel has handled things lately.

He needs to disagree more than a bit, he needs to say, if you want to be our ally, you have to start respecting human rights, starting now

And he has to mean it

And he'll have to put up with all kinds of whining and crying and accusations of anti-Semitism, but really there's no reasonable case to be made for us supporting Israel anymore; they've completely sacrificed any claim they had to being a civilized government

[JohnXDoe]

Ultimately, we cannot tell either the Israelis or the Palestinians what's best for them. They're going to have to make some decisions. But I do believe that the moment is ripe for both sides to realize that the path that they are on is one that is not going to result in prosperity and security for their people, and that instead, it's time to return to the negotiating table.

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but I'd say he's maybe disagreeing a bit with how Israel has handled things lately.
i think so. i mean he isn't going to come out and take a strong stance "against" Israel. from what i gathered from the interview this is the kind of thing he is trying to avoid. we stand with Israel, and we will remain to stand with them. he makes that clear. so he isn't just going to flip the switch on that. think of the message that would send to both sides. it would be the wrong way to do things. and he knows his words (even if just words) as President carry much weight

but it does sound as if he wants to put the past behind us a little on these matters. to start fresh and not let history weigh so heavy on either side of the argument. and to separate those who would seek peace and fairness in the future, from those who would seek division and destruction. because in his eyes, and i believe this true, their are more of the former. and certainly given an opportunity those voices of peace and fairness on both sides will drown out the actions and ideas of the terrorists and radical zionists who wish to fight this to some bitter apocalypse.

so to take sides against Israel is something he would see as counter productive, i believe. and not just that, but also against U.S. policy toward Israel. however it doesn't mean we need to endorse or approve of all Israeli action. i think it just means through understanding and a shift in diplomacy toward the Arab / Muslim world on a whole that Israel can be, and of course needs to be, an important and respected part of that shift. thats the reality of it imo. and as time goes on he thinks the voices of reason, the will of the people on both sides when just, will be respected and honored.

he talked of Israel making "sacrifices" on the road to accomplishing what he outlined. in my mind that is enough for now. more to come, i would guess
That was a great interview, setting a ground floor already in his approach to the musulmin world.

Also, you can't deny, that you positively loved writing "PRESIDENT Obama" in the tittle of the thread didn't you?
i agree, it is a GREAT interview. there is some change for you. its just so....bold and refreshing to hear our President talk like this

and yeah, thinking, typing, hearing in my head and finally seeing the thread title "President Obama" was sort of surreal and cool :cool:

[Jude]

Telling Israel they have to meet human rights standards in order to get our support isn't taking sides against Israel, it's taking sides with common decency

[Murdererer]

obama dont like how osama is bitin his name

[JohnXDoe]

Telling Israel they have to meet human rights standards in order to get our support isn't taking sides against Israel, it's taking sides with common decency
well give it time, Jude. he can tell Israel that all he wants. many have, and they still don't comply. tact and persuasion over time can go a long way. simply insisting they do so won't bring change to anything

after all it hasn't yet. nor will our refusal to support them

[Iscariot]

Telling Israel they have to meet human rights standards in order to get our support isn't taking sides against Israel, it's taking sides with common decency

Yes, because we all know how well giving orders to a spoiled child works.

[GnRguitarist]

Maybe I'm naive, but I don't think Israel is nearly as bad as the world seems to think that they are. We've supported them for a reason in the past. I think that this interview shows signs of weakness on behalf of Obama which reflects on the rest of us. He's making us all look weak.

[Iscariot]

That's hilarious you should be a comedian.

[GnRguitarist]

Ok please explain to me how I'm wrong? How is Israel so much worse than Hammas?

[JohnXDoe]

Maybe I'm naive, but I don't think Israel is nearly as bad as the world seems to think that they are. We've supported them for a reason in the past. I think that this interview shows signs of weakness on behalf of Obama which reflects on the rest of us. He's making us all look weak.
i don't buy the "peace is weak" notion. he'll drop bombs and go to war when he has to. and he'll have to. but whats wrong with trying to work out these problems after so many years of people saying they want them worked out?

America is not weak militarily or in foreign policy. and i doubt anyone will get that impression. and it really doesn't matter how we are perceived by the rest of the world. they will hate us or like us depending on who they are. some fear us because we are "strong." others would like to knock that chip off our shoulders. w/e happens, happens anyway. ao lets work for something good i say

although i do agree with you about Israel not being as "bad" as some feel, i would think most there want peace, too. and i think what Obama is saying is no matter who you are, if your old destructive ways aren't tempered, even ours, you will try to be brought down by others or perhaps worse yet, be left behind and isolated while others work for a better world for tomorrow

[Iscariot]

They're not worse, they're equally as bad and should be treated as such. We shouldn't blindly back Israel just because we "backed them for a reason". If they're in the wrong they shouldn't be given any leeway. But that doesn't mean we should go on another bombing campaign across the Middle East just to prove that our balls are big and made of steel. That doesn't make us look strong, it makes us look like sanctioned terrorists.

[Jude]

Yes, because we all know how well giving orders to a spoiled child works.

Not feeding the spoiled child until they behave would work!

[JohnXDoe]

it doesn't when the spoiled children can feed themselves

they would not starve without us, god knows

[Chu]

They're not worse, they're equally as bad and should be treated as such. We shouldn't blindly back Israel just because we "backed them for a reason". If they're in the wrong they shouldn't be given any leeway. But that doesn't mean we should go on another bombing campaign across the Middle East just to prove that our balls are big and made of steel. That doesn't make us look strong, it makes us look like sanctioned terrorists.
Nice post man.

[VomitStainedCretin]

Ok please explain to me how I'm wrong? How is Israel so much worse than Hammas?Well the latest conflict conflict has churned out a casualty ration of about 100 Palestinians per Israeli, which seems to me somewhat mild disparity to say the least.

[JohnXDoe]

yeah around 588 Palestinians died last year as a direct result of Israelis military / police operations in what Israel has said is self defense from rockets and what not. i believe the number of Israelis who died as a direct result of Palestinian action is 1

[siva_chair]

ITT: Obama kills terrorists with kind words.....

:p

[Against Miik!]

http://jezekiah.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/qassamgbu.png?w=480&h=312

Maybe I'm naive, but I don't think Israel is nearly as bad as the world seems to think that they are. We've supported them for a reason in the past. I think that this interview shows signs of weakness on behalf of Obama which reflects on the rest of us. He's making us all look weak.

They are both bad but Hamas was democratically elected and there really isn't anything we can do about that (or should be able to do about that). Israel is the one committing the crime though. They are illegally occupying those lands and if you read anything about day to day life in the Palestinian territories, the Israelis make is no less than hell on earth for those people.

[StreetlightRock]

I do think that it is impossible for us to think only in terms of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict and not think in terms of what's happening with Syria or Iran or Lebanon or Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Best part, right there. I literally breathed a sigh of relief. Finally, took long enough for the US to actually articulate some proper policy like this, and hopefully they start to follow through.

[Against Miik!]

I am more and more liking Obama's middle east policies, and this interview sealed that, but I believe that his policies can be enacted without military muscle. With the economy the way it is, and the way it will be for the near future, I find it impossible to justify spending what we do on defense. I don't recall him ever expressing this sentiment.

Arab's are people too (duh), and I believe they will react favorably to rationality, something that has not been reflected in our policies for quite a long time.

[siva_chair]

I am more and more liking Obama's middle east policies, and this interview sealed that, but I believe that his policies can be enacted without military muscle. With the economy the way it is, and the way it will be for the near future, I find it impossible to justify spending what we do on defense. I don't recall him ever expressing this sentiment.

Arab's are people too (duh), and I believe they will react favorably to rationality, something that has not been reflected in our policies for quite a long time.

Obama proposed to increase the defense budget, though.

[Against Miik!]

I know, which I am arguing against. It's hard for me to believe that so few people in Washington understand what these enormous budgets are doing to our country.

I actually just got done reading JFK's book Profiles in Courage, in which he talks about a senator by the name of Lucius Lamar, who after the Civil War was adamantly against the use of "free silver" being pumped into the money supply along with gold in order for the south to cheaply pay off their debts, understanding the ramifications. I was reading this story and I was just stunned, wondering when exactly we lost this understanding (well actually I know when, 1913).

[siva_chair]

Well the Fed is probably the largest counterfieting operation in the world.

[Against Miik!]

Yes they are, and speaking of JFK, he payed the ultimate price for trying to end them (conspiracy ftw)

[siva_chair]

Yes they are, and speaking of JFK, he payed the ultimate price for trying to end them (conspiracy ftw)

I know. If he would have been able to end them, he would have definitely made my top 5 presidents list in that other thread. I even mentioned that at one point, I believe. :thumb:

[thedriveinfan]

ITT: Obama kills terrorists with kind words.....

:p

haha best thing ever

[Dimmu Burger]

ITT: Obama kills terrorists with kind words.....

:p

lol funny and true! way more badass than anything Bush ever did.

[IbanezArtist]

I really like him, even if he has bad ideas for the local economy, at least he is a modest, considerate person who at least has a desire to think things through when it comes to foreign policy.

[Dimmu Burger]

yeah it's better than bossing people around and blowing things up.

[mph4ever]

you mean like bushionics

[siva_chair]

http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2009/01/29/obama-agent-of-change-well-agent-of-somethin/

[IbanezArtist]

siva, quit linking to shitty right wing blogs, conservatism is ****ing retarded

[siva_chair]

Yes because we know that antiwar.com is very pro-conservative.

[IbanezArtist]

I didn't even read it.

But Idc. you're irrational, nonsensical, and probably 12

[siva_chair]

Congrats on looking like an idiot.

[IbanezArtist]

Thanks bro, congrats on still not being able to put forth a decent argument whatsoever against anything anyone on here says because you have a skewed idealist view of capitalism.

[1338 h4x0r]

siva_chair does not hunt because the word hunting implies the chance of success. siva_chair wanders around aimlessly with a gun.

[siva_chair]

Thanks bro, congrats on still not being able to put forth a decent argument whatsoever against anything anyone on here says because you have a skewed idealist view of capitalism.

The irony of this is painfully hilarious.

[IbanezArtist]

If you'd care to elaborate sir that'd be good.

[siva_chair]

Idk the part where you accuse me of not putting forth a decent argument whatsoever and then follow it up with a retarded bare assertion lacking in any sort of argument is pretty funny.

[IbanezArtist]

But it's not bare, there is evidence of your sheer retardation in every post you make. I think we're beyond the technicalities of citation for support of the argument, this is a forum on the interwebs.

[siva_chair]

It's not a bare assertion....but it's an assertion that is bare???

Wow you have great logic there sparky.

[IbanezArtist]

No, it's not bare, there is plenty of evidence and support for my assertion, just not in that post, as I said, upon reading the thread and realizing you're a complete idiot, it's clear that my assertions are supported by contex.

[siva_chair]

No, it's not bare, there is plenty of evidence and support for my assertion, just not in that post, as I said, upon reading the thread and realizing you're a complete idiot, it's clear that my assertions are supported by contex.

It's clear that you haven't done anything to demonstrate that I am "a complete idiot" and therefor it is a bare assertion. But that's ok I wouldn't expect someone who relies so heavily on poorly constructed ad hominems for their arguments to understand any of this.

[IbanezArtist]

No, it's clear you've done the demonstrating for me.

Give up, siva_chair, everyone on the forum hates you and just as well as myself realizes you're ****ing stupid.

[1338 h4x0r]

siva_chair once had an affair with Ralph Macchio on the set of The Karate Kid.

[siva_chair]

No, it's clear you've done the demonstrating for me.

Give up, siva_chair, everyone on the forum hates you and just as well as myself realizes you're ****ing stupid.

Oh my this really hurts my feelings. :rolleyes:

[IbanezArtist]

Obviously it does because you constantly defend yourself and can't suck it up and accept your failure.

[1338 h4x0r]

And on the third day God said, "Let there be light." Because siva_chair is afraid of the dark.

[siva_chair]

Obviously it does because you constantly defend yourself and can't suck it up and accept your failure.

It's a good thing I haven't failed.

Good job demonstrating I have, btw.

[IbanezArtist]

In what way have you not? You continue to put forth arguments for unattainable economic systems that don't make sense in the first place and in general you're just ****ing stupid.

Also, your location makes you seem like an oppressed 12 year old.

[siva_chair]

In what way have you not? You continue to put forth arguments for unattainable economic systems that don't make sense in the first place and in general you're just ****ing stupid.

Also, your location makes you seem like an oppressed 12 year old.

You shouldn't confuse your failure to grasp arguments and put forth rational ones with a failure of mine.

[IbanezArtist]

You just admitted it was a failure of yours, and my failure to grasp arguments could be because yours are so illogical the sheer doing of such a thing would be impossible.

[siva_chair]

You just admitted it was a failure of yours, and my failure to grasp arguments could be because yours are so illogical the sheer doing of such a thing would be impossible.

No actually I just pointing out that you are obviously too retarded to grasp arguments and you confuse that with some sort of failure on my part.

It appears you have troubles with reading comprehension as well.

[1338 h4x0r]

The chief import of siva_chair is ****.

[IbanezArtist]

By saying "with a failure of mine" you imply you have a failure.

I think it's you that lacks comprehension.

Siva, please, go jack off to Pottery Barn, you're ruining an otherwise decent thread.

[siva_chair]

By saying "with a failure of mine" you imply you have a failure.

I think it's you that lacks comprehension.

Siva, please, go jack off to Pottery Barn, you're ruining an otherwise decent thread.

Lol you really do have a problem with reading comprehension, don't you?

[IbanezArtist]

No. Is your mother also your sister or were you just dropped on your head a few too many times as a child?

The proper wording for said clause to make it as you imply you meant it to be would be "alleged failure of mine."

[siva_chair]

No. Is your mother also your sister or were you just dropped on your head a few too many times as a child?

The proper wording for said clause to make it as you imply you meant it to be would be "alleged failure of mine."

No it clearly stated that you were attributing your failure to me.

[IbanezArtist]

No it did not.

[siva_chair]

Yes, it did.

[1338 h4x0r]

siva_chair can believe it's not butter.

[IbanezArtist]

No, it clearly did not.

Have you ever taken an English class?

To make your failure alleged or implied by me you'd require an adjective to call it so, if not, it's simply your failure.

[siva_chair]

"confuse that with some sort of failure on my part" means quite clearly you are confusing your failure and calling it mine.

Good try though.

[1338 h4x0r]

siva_chair does not sleep. He passes out after two wine coolers.

[IbanezArtist]

"confuse that with some sort of failure on my part" means quite clearly you are confusing your failure and calling it mine.

Good try though.

No, that just simply states there there is some sort of failure on your part.

Literally thinking that is.

Then again everything is figurative, imaginative and as long as it's relating to pottery barn, sexually attractive to you, amirite?

[1338 h4x0r]

siva_chair's semen cures cancer. Too bad he has AIDS.

[IbanezArtist]

Quick, find Magic Johnson!

[1338 h4x0r]

siva_chair always buys the Double Gulp at 7-11 even though he knows he can't finish it.

[siva_chair]

No, that just simply states there there is some sort of failure on your part.

Literally thinking that is.

Then again everything is figurative, imaginative and as long as it's relating to pottery barn, sexually attractive to you, amirite?

No it simply states you are confusing failure. Learn to read.

[IbanezArtist]

TBH I can't finish a large peanut butter shake from Baskin Robbins, those are nuts

[IbanezArtist]

siva_chair, stop talking.

[1338 h4x0r]

That's probably due to the salmonella outbreak thing. Personally I think they're overreacting, but w/e

Speaking of Baskin-Robbins, siva_chair manages a Baskin Robbins franchise. It only has access to 23 flavors.

[JohnXDoe]

goddamn pseudo intellectuals spamming up this thread! :smash:

so, um, yeah. how 'bout that Barack Obama....

[Jude]

you guys are all retarded

[1338 h4x0r]

Look, it's Dr. siva_chair talking to the children:

http://www.sickanimation.com/cartoon.asp?name=tooyoungtodie

[mph4ever]

thats going a little too far

how is obama going to address the issue of afghanistan? how does he avoid a long protracted occupation and war effort

[hismajestythepope]

I am falling in love with this man.

If he pulls this off. He will be our new Messiah. I'm going to go ahead and say that Obama is the second coming of Christ.

anti-christ morelike

[1338 h4x0r]

I'm waiting for Obama to ship people to gulags like a lot of people were saying shortly after he was elected.

[Jude]

anti-christ morelike

Sarah Palin was/is the antichrist

[Angmar]

haha so true