Right hand technique advice please (clickety - clackety)

[Matthews2250]

Hey guys, my first post (and hopefully not my last!)

Anyway, my problem:

I play fingerstyle and have recently noticed a problem. When I play at speed I get a sporadic "clicking" sound (or clacking if you will) which is really starting to get my goat.

My first thought was that it could be a set-up problem (as I have a new bass BTB 670 fyi), so I duly raised my action a touch, checked the neck relief and reset the intonation. The result? A sporadic "clicking" and a raised action.

I'm not sure exactly what is causing the problem. Am I striking the string too hard occasionally? Am I playing from an angle that causes the string to accidentally slap against the frets when it vibrates? Is it a quirk of the instrument? (Seems unlikely as I recall my old bass being similarly afflicted)
Or none of the above?

I realise that without seeing me play it might be tricky to pinpoint the root cause, but I was hoping someone here has overcome a similar problem in the past.

Thanks for your help chaps! (and chapesses)

[Sablate McNuff]

Have you checked the length of your fingernails?

(serious question)

[psbassplayer]

first off, welcome to the forums.

it could be that the strings are hitting your pickups when you pluck them, and it could also be your amp too, and it could be that koala bears are sneaking into your room when you are asleep and putting magnets in your bass that click together when you play. (the latter is less likely)

it is really hard to say what it is without actually seeing and hearing the noise. a video or recording would help greatly.

[Tripp_chaos]

That's what happened to me when I first started out I thought it was everything else until one day I chipped one (hurt like a sob) so now I frequently trim them... but it's at the expense of finger picking my guitar like I used to... about the fingernails...
and yes Welcome to the cooler section of the forums...

[Sablate McNuff]

I don't know the sound of the click, but there are a million reasons this happens. When you play fast, your fingers are more noticeably hitting the strings before the note is played.

It also could be your fretting. You are more noticeably tapping the strings against the frets and your timing with fret/pluck is a bit off.

[Tripp_chaos]

youtube vid?

[Matthews2250]

Well it's definitely not my fingernails, I keep them nicely trimmed.

Fretting doesn't seem to be a problem, the clicking happens even when holding down the root.

Pickups seem well adjusted and the magnets aren't exposed, so that doesn't seem too likely either.

It's an odd one 'cause I've been playing for a good few years and it's only just cropped up. Either I've developed a terrible habit or it is the koala bears.

I'll see about a video, I have a webcam that I might be able to get a reasonable quality out of. The trouble will be getting a decent angle with it.

[psbassplayer]

i think the sound will be more valuable than a decent angle.

[Tripp_chaos]

is it the cables? and or amp?

[Matthews2250]

Happens when I'm not plugged in, so it's probably a safe bet that the electrics are fine (though I did almost ruin my amp a few months back by shorting the cooling fins against the circuit board, not on purpose mind you!)

I'll see about getting a sound/video sample up somewhere tomorrow. Thanks for your input so far guys.

[Tripp_chaos]

Not a problem after all I don't really have anything better to do while rendering music at a sinc depth of 256... (hours I tell ya)

[psbassplayer]

well if its happening when you aren't plugged in then it is a problem with your playing and or your bass.

you said you adjusted the action, but did you adjust the truss rod or take a gander at it?

[Matthews2250]

I looked at the truss, capo-ed at the first fret and fretted up the other end and took a measurement of around 0.5mm at the 6th fret which I believe is about normal for a bass. Though I suppose I could experiment with getting a bit more depth and see if it helps

[psbassplayer]

i just took out my first bass i ever owned. yes the crap-o-matic of basses and that puts all other horribly made crap-piles to shame.

i then proceeded to play it and realized i was getting a clicking sound. i looked for the sound and found my fingers to be hitting the pickup after pluckign the string, or wood or wherever i held my fingers.

by no means am i saying your bass is crappy, but just another theory from a galaxy of possiblities for us to whack at with a rusty hatchet.

[Tripp_chaos]

By chance is it all in your head? Nah ,I was just checking something up and could it be a loose bridge part or pieces?

[Matthews2250]

Again unlikely it's got a mono-rail bridge system so all the bridge pieces are independent for each string. I think we're progressing ever closer to the conclusion that my technique sucks...

[psbassplayer]

I think we're progressing ever closer to the conclusion that my technique sucks...

now now...let's not jump to perfectly rational explanations that would comfortably sum up this thread in a few words and suggestions.

we were having so much fun playing 20 questions.

is it edible?

[Tripp_chaos]

Although slightly off topic this is helping your post count...

If you like wood Yes...

[psbassplayer]

Although slightly off topic this is helping your post count...

actually it is keeping me from renewing my "what-is-not-to-be-named" mmorpg subscription and allowing me to make it to band practice tomorrow lead a more sane life.

[Tripp_chaos]

oh not your post count there post count...

[psbassplayer]

i know because my knowledge of bass is directly proportional to my post count.

but anyway back to the daunting task at hand.

how do you hold the bass? does this happen when you are sitting down and standing up? do you rest your thumb on the pickup or string or on the complete absence of anything leaving you thumb dangling somewhere between the e-string bounce fest and your manly pecs protruding over the top part of your bass.

but i digress. what i'm sayign is try to be as detailed as possible in explaining how you hold your bass, or if you want to wait to record all this into a tarantino-esque film then so be it.

[katana_manatee]

A way to help is to play with a lighter touch at high speeds, it is fairly natural for our fingers to not only increase speed but increase the force against the string which can cause it to hit off a fret.

Try not to worry too much about having clicking at high speed though, when you play with a full band it gets covered up and lots of great players will have that clicking too at high speeds. John Myung for example will sometimes be a little clicky when playing on the lower strings at high speed but it isn't something that sounds all that annoying.

Work on playing with a soft touch or try three finger type techniques. They seem to help a lot for doing high speeds with less click.

[Matthews2250]

how do you hold the bass? does this happen when you are sitting down and standing up? do you rest your thumb on the pickup or string or on the complete absence of anything leaving you thumb dangling somewhere between the e-string bounce fest and your manly pecs protruding over the top part of your bass.


It happens both when sitting and standing - and I anchor heavily on the neck p-up (though I'm trying to move towards a floating anchor to improve my muting) I'm not sure that my comic-book superhero physique has much to do with it though.

and Mr. Manatee (because I'm not sure how to quote 2 things in one message) it wouldn't be a problem if it was a consistent clickety clack, but it's sporadic. I also find that if I play light enough not to get it at all, my tone suffers in a big way. You could be right though that I'm striking too hard, but I wonder why it's not consistent and what I can do to work on that?

[psbassplayer]

well i am going to bed now so i guess i'll have to wait for the video. remember to show how you hold, pluck, strum, finger, finagle, and whathaveyous.

if either the view or sound suffers from you showing and making raucous amounts of noise do them separately. better to get the best of both worlds on separate worlds than to have them smashed into one and have them be called (i don't know, i'm too tired to think of a good mildly metaphorical thingy, so you make one up for yourself.).

[Matthews2250]

Right I recorded something. It's not exactly a masterclass and I probably could have put more effort into it, but it nicely illustrates the issue I'm having: http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=3646638380105025982

Also you get to glimpse my new television in the background.

[psbassplayer]

well mate, the sound is coming from your string hitting the fretboard. this has more to do with the bass than your technique although there are some things you can do to keep it from happening.

basically unless you want to change your action there isn't much you can do to the bass that will change the clicky clacks. you can fiddle with the truss rod a bit and see if it helps, but it probably won't. it has to do more with string tension than the action in my opinion.

next is your technique. i don't really see anything wrong with the way you twiddle your fingers back and forth to produce a sound on the bass, it's the same way i do it.

but if you absoulutely want the clacks to go away and will let your tone change a bit for it, move your right hand closer to the bridge. this makes you hit the string at a slightly tighter spot causing it to wiggle back and forth less therefore no hitting the fretboard and clacking.

hope this solves the problem.

[Matthews2250]

Harrrummmmmm... would changing my string gauge help? In which case fatter or thinner?

[Tripp_chaos]

Yeah that about sums it up... Except for the tension... I think it could in fact be the the action causing it (I may be wrong)...

[bassistuvdoom731]

Seems to me thats it's both your action and your technique. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like you don't use as much of a plucking action when you go faster. It looks more like you force your fingers down on the strings from the top of the strings instead of plucking them from the side, therefore pushing them down onto the fretboard.

I may be wrong, but it seems to be what I saw. Anyway, you can solve that by raising your action and being sure to keep your angle of attack on the strings constant as you speed up. As it is right now, it seems that your making something more akin to a slapping technique as your speed increases.

Let me know if this helps at all.

[Matthews2250]

Well I've raised the action again...only a mild difference. I'm not aware of striking downwards particularly - it feels like i'm plucking rather than slapping. Though at speed obviously I can't really see precisely whats going on... I need one of those "high-motion" cameras that they have on Cricket replays.

[katana_manatee]

Clicking will always come out more if you pluck closer to the fretboard, try plucking nearer the bridge when playing fast, that way you hit the string where it is more taut and less likely to move the string so much that it whacks the fretboard.

When playing slow you can pluck nearer the fretboard for a big sound but picking fast there will pretty much guarantee clicking.

[Matthews2250]

I'll need to work on that then - my first bass had only one pick up near the neck so playing by the bridge feels quite unnatural to me.

Thanks for the help chaps! (though feel free to dish out some more)

[Misanthropic]

check your setup or have it checked. it's not exactly rocket science, and there are sites that can guide you through this, i.e. truss rod adjustment and adjusting action.

also, what gauge strings are you using? you could try changing to a thicker gauge for less floppy strings.

[katana_manatee]

I'll need to work on that then - my first bass had only one pick up near the neck so playing by the bridge feels quite unnatural to me.

Thanks for the help chaps! (though feel free to dish out some more)

Yeah, going from plucking at the neck to the bridge will feel a bit different but shouldn't take too long to get used to. Just use the bridge pickup as your anchoring spot instead of the neck pickup.

You'll get used to it soon enough. :thumb:

[Matthews2250]

what gauge strings are you using? you could try changing to a thicker gauge for less floppy strings.

I've currently got 45-105's on (from the factory I think) I was contemplating going up to 110's would the difference be that tangiable?

[PaulSimonon]

I'd say try adding some more arc to your hand. It feels awkward, and at least for me still kinda does, but it really helps make sure that you're plucking across the strings and not diagonally downward... if that makes any sense.

[Sablate McNuff]

The problem is the angle you are hitting the strings at higher speeds. You're pushing down more than when you are playing slower and through the string.

Katana's advice is the best. Keep the string gauge and string height, play nearer the bridge.

Gorgeous BTB btw.

[Phalanx]

A lot of the "clickety clackety" sound is usually due to poor technique (i mean that in the least offending way).

[Damrod]

The problem is the angle you are hitting the strings at higher speeds. You're pushing down more than when you are playing slower and through the string.

Katana's advice is the best. Keep the string gauge and string height, play nearer the bridge.


What I was about to say. Sometimes I have the same problem as well while playing fast.

[tomtom]

another thing you could try is angling your fingers ... this'll be a bit hard to explain ... so here we go

instead of playing so that your fingers meet like a T on the strings (where the top of the T is the string and the stalk are you fingers) try changing the angles, so that towards the neck the angle is more acute. if you get what i mean ...

umm, another way to get what i'm saying across is this. your middle finger is longer than your pointer finger (at least, it should be). if you were to place your finger tips on the string, with your hand flat against the bass, in a position similar to how it would be if you were playing, the top of your hand would be angle towards the neck.

basically what this SHOULD do, is get the movement of you fingers across the strings a bit more, although, if it feels uncomfortable, change the angle to where it is comfortable, as it can cause RSI and other nasty stress related injuries in

[trtrzgunners]

you can also have too much treble on and clicks become really loud, so you may consider reducing your treble.

also the string tension might be low on your bass, so the string keep on hitting the fretboard.

[sunshine in my soul]

Have you checked the length of your fingernails?

(serious question)

^^^ This happens to me all the time, and always when i dont have any fingernail clippers.

[WhoDidTheElf]

I've found with to high of an action that it can cause that clickety noise because of the angle of your finger attack. Instead of plucking straight up, you kind of attack it at an inward angle instead of almost straight up. Though this is rather extreme cases of raised action so..

[Rollo47]

I'm guessing one of the saddles is a tad loose in your bridge.