Guantánamo to be closed

[Iskandar]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article5506559.ece

A day long awaited.

[fatkidzonmopedz]

harold and kumar are probly relieved.

[Aaron]

Finally.

[siva_chair]

Maybe now we can start putting terrorist suspects in the general prison population, eh?

If they think degrading things happened to them at Guantanamo, wait until they get a taste of San Quentin....

[Iskandar]

Maybe now we can actually give them fair trials.

[siva_chair]

We don't even always get fair trials as American citizens.

[Iskandar]

No, but most of the time we get trials that are far more fair than a military tribunal could ever be.

[siva_chair]

Why do you think military tribunals are less fair than what we get? Is it because there aren't a bunch of civilians judging whether you are guilty or not?

While I agree that military tribunals aren't always exactly fair, I don't believe our current system is always that, either.

[Iskandar]

Military tribunals are presided over by officers, not judges, and tend to value speed over justice. Not that the Guantanamo inmates got either.

[siva_chair]

If I'm not mistaken, it is presided over by officers of the JAG, which are versed in military law.

Contrast this by a jury comprised of average joe blow citizens (who are usually quite ignorant of the law) and some political hack in a black robe (who may or may not be very well versed in the law himself).

Not defending military tribunals, per se, but I think it's silly to think they would get much more of fair trial at the whims of a civilian court....

[stevensonmat2]

bummer (at thread title)

[punkprince123]

Shame.

It had a good run, brutality has lost it's home.

[siva_chair]

I have a feeling it was probably less brutal than many state penitentiaries.

[McP3000]

probably not as brutal as cannibal corpse is tho

[ok lateralus]

About time.

[johnnyblaze]

I have a feeling it was probably less brutal than many state penitentiaries.

Are you ****ing serious?

Sensory depravation? Sleep depravation? Stress positions? Water-boarding? And, these are "standard operating procedure. Have you heard about the Daliwar case? Seen any interviews with Abu Ghraib prison guards? Most of the **** they let go down is in violation of Geneva for christ's sake!

Oh, and most people in penitentiaries DESERVE to be there. 70-90% of these prisoners do not!
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0511-04.htm

[Aaron]

probably not as brutal as cannibal corpse is tho
I cum gitmo

[Det_Nosnip]

I have a feeling it was probably less brutal than many state penitentiaries.

lol.

[PerpetualBurn]

It's okay to violate basic human rights as long as Siva "has a feeling" that it's ok.

[siva_chair]

Are you ****ing serious?

Sensory depravation? Sleep depravation? Stress positions? Water-boarding? And, these are "standard operating procedure. Have you heard about the Daliwar case? Seen any interviews with Abu Ghraib prison guards? Most of the **** they let go down is in violation of Geneva for christ's sake!

Oh, and most people in penitentiaries DESERVE to be there. 70-90% of these prisoners do not!
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0511-04.htm

Have you heard about gang violence and anal rape?

It's okay to violate basic human rights as long as Siva "has a feeling" that it's ok.

Please don't tell me your reasoning abilities have degraded this much.

Never did I defend what goes on in Gitmo.

[punkprince123]

Have you heard about gang violence and anal rape?


I think it's slightly different when it's the guards doing the violence.

[siva_chair]

I think it's slightly different when it's the guards doing the violence.

Oh yeah? Why's that?

[punkprince123]

Oh yeah? Why's that?

Because a guard's job should be to make sure a prisoner stays in prison?

It's clear that you're just looking for any pedantic argument here, so I'll leave you to it.

[siva_chair]

Because a guard's job should be to make sure a prisoner stays in prison?

It's clear that you're just looking for any pedantic argument here, so I'll leave you to it.

No I'm just curious as to how aggression being initiated against a prisoner by a gaurd is, in actuality, really any different than aggression being initiated against a prison by another prisoner.

If a cop shoots me for no justified reason it is the exact same end result as if some random guy on the street shoots me for no justified reason.

[punkprince123]

But you would think that state mandated violence would be easily preventable.

You know as well as I do that that is the reason why people are glad that Guantanamo is closing.

[siva_chair]

The state usually utilizes violence against people. This shouldn't be surprising, considering it's track record.

[Seafroggys]

Is it only the prison that is closing or the whole military base? The military base has been there since the Spanish-American War.

[punkprince123]

The state usually utilizes violence against people. This shouldn't be surprising, considering it's track record.

Yeah, and people don't think it should, hence why they're pleased at Guantanamo being closed.

[Iskandar]

Is it only the prison that is closing or the whole military base? The military base has been there since the Spanish-American War.I believe only the prison.

[mph4ever]

bush out of office, oil at a buck forty, gitmo gone, israel unlawfully killing palestinian children, seems like old times

[BlisteryNixon]

This is an historic day for justice.

[Surtr]

Have you heard about gang violence and anal rape?

Yeah, good point, extreme torture isn't half as bad as buttsecks.

[siva_chair]

Yeah, good point, extreme torture isn't half as bad as buttsecks.

Unlubricated, forced buttsecks IS extreme torture.

[Iscariot]

Unlubricated, forced buttsecks IS extreme torture.

You have to be trolling. Everything you've said in this thread is retarded.

[siva_chair]

So anal rape isn't a form of torture?

[McP3000]

idk id take waterboarding over getting stiffed by some dude

j/s

[Iscariot]

Not traditionally, no.

And that's completely irrelevant. I mean, it's so irrelevant it makes the existence of chocolate chips look relevant to what went on in Gitmo.

The fact that you're trying to compare prisoners boning each other, or guards punching inmates, to electric shock and forced copulation is proof enough that you're pathetically, and frustratingly, arguing for the sake of arguing.

@ Siva

[siva_chair]

Not traditionally, no.

And that's completely irrelevant. I mean, it's so irrelevant it makes the existence of chocolate chips look relevant to the what went on in Gitmo.

The fact that you're trying to compare prisoners boning each other, or guards punching inmates, to electric shock and forced copulation is proof enough that you're pathetically, and frustratingly, arguing for the sake of arguing.

@ Siva

The whole point was that these inmates would probably not be any better off in the state pen than they would at Gitmo. Their chance of being anally raped (or even shanked or beaten to death) by a fellow inmate is probably much higher in the former, which is why I brought that point up.

I never said I supported Gitmo at all, but I really don't think these prisoners would be significantly better off in a different prison, is all.

[Iscariot]

The whole point was that these inmates would probably not be any better off in the state pen than they would at Gitmo. Their chance of being anally raped (or even shanked or beaten to death) by a fellow inmate is probably much higher in the former, which is why I brought that point up.

I never said I supported Gitmo at all, but I really don't think these prisoners would be significantly better off in a different prison, is all.

Then you're a moron.

Do you understand that rape, stabbings, and beatings are only common in maximum security prisons? And on top of that, even in maximum security facilities, these are hardly every day events. You need to watch less Prison Break, and stop watching American History X, and allow yourself to comprehend the fact that Gitmo is purely a torture facility.

That is what it exists for. It is there for the purpose of torturing detainees for information that they may or may not have. And if they don't have it, they will be tortured some more until they confess to things they had no part in.

If you honestly believe that this is comparable to a federal prison, then you need to be in special ed and not on here wasting everyone's time.

[Iskandar]

It's patently obvious that neither Gitmo nor state penitentiaries are nice places to be. What makes Gitmo worse is that the guards abused positions of authority, like they did at Abu Ghuraib. The violence is the same as if other prisoners did it, but worse because the guards were expected to treat enemy combatants fairly.

(And before anyone points out the obvious, yes, I know that penitentiary guards abuse their prisoners all the time.)

[siva_chair]

Then you're a moron.

Do you understand that rape, stabbings, and beatings are only common in maximum security prisons? And on top of that, even in maximum security facilities, these are hardly every day events. You need to watch less Prison Break, and stop watching American History X, and allow yourself to comprehend the fact that Gitmo is purely a torture facility.

That is what it exists for. It is there for the purpose of torturing detainees for information that they may or may not have. And if they don't have it, they will be tortured some more until they confess to things they had no part in.

You need to watch actual d0cumentaries on prison violence. It doesn't just happen and is not only common in maximum security prisons. It happens frequent enough in local, state, and federal detention centers.

If you honestly believe that this is comparable to a federal prison, then you need to be in special ed and not on here wasting everyone's time.

You need to quit making strawmans. Never did I say Gitmo wasn't a bad place or that it should continue to be open. I simply pointed out that these prisoners wouldn't really be in any better shape (in fact, I bet more of them would be killed by other prisoners) in any general population of any penitentiary.

And if I am wasting your time, you know what you should do? Cry about it some more, that will certainly help.

[johnnyblaze]

I can't remember the last time a federal prison psychologically tortured someone. The impacts of sensory depravation are quite severe:

http://books.google.ca/books?id=zVDmwXFc_JcC&pg=PA32&lpg=PA32&dq=sensory+deprivation+mcgill&source=web&ots=44pU26KCZs&sig=-SGpHPvMfWbYrCrnhFF6ZJl-06A&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=7&ct=result#PPA33,M1

Read pages 32-38. And it gets better (well, worse) if you keep going. The subjects of numerous studies sued. $180,000 was awarded to 9 subjects in Canada, and one case against the CIA was settled for $750,000; though this was an extreme study. The techniques used by Dr. Cameron of the CIA caused permanent effects on the psyche of some 60% of 79 subjects in one study. Sometimes inducing amnesia, prosopagnosia, and other brain disorders. This type of torture borders on ****ing brainwash. Dr. Hebb's breakthrough studies, which were considerably ethical, found that after just 6-7 hours "the subject's very identity begun to disintegrate."