People are still saying that the Holocaust never happened

[GnRguitarist]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3X2vUMh9Hr0&feature=related

Do they have any sufficient evidence to back up their claims?

[Light Fantastic]

who cares its 2008 the holocaust is irrelevant

[GnRguitarist]

MTV begs to differ:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTOuq4pY10o&feature=related

[FakePlasticTrees]

That guy must be a Scientologist.

[Foehammer]

It is illegal in Germany to say it never happened.
Wow I wonder why

[Light Fantastic]

because germany has some stupid sense of guilt over something a past government did

they give money to israel for it too its quite amusing

[Foehammer]

I was using that towards the "the holocaust never happened"

Why would they make a law saying you cannot say it
if they had no reason

[mph4ever]

i've been to the camps, they could do more to improve the tourist experience. maybe a few real life repeats with the local zionist choral society

i'd like to see a proof based debate between someone who does believe it did happen and someone who says it didn't

[Surtr]

It did never happen.

[Mr. Ron]

MTV begs to differ:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTOuq4pY10o&feature=related
hahahahahahaha

[Linkinbassist]

It happened.

It's the most researched epoch of History. It happened.

[Surtr]

Prove it.

It never happened.

[Mr. Ron]

well, over 6 million people went missing. thats all the proof you really need.

[peeted]

You cant proove the past, you can provide very srong evidence for it and there is very strong evidence for the hollocaust happening. Almost every "problem" in that video is very easily explained away, some by just basic common sense.

[Foehammer]

How could anyone think it didnt
despite all of the evidence

[Mr. Ron]

then you have the millions and millions of textual evidence. Let alone people like Eichmann giving personal accounts of what they had done.

[Foehammer]

Photos, survivors, documents

How could someone be so ****ing stupid
COUNTLESS amounts of evidence.

[Super Batman]

World War I never happened. We never invaded Vietnam. We never had a revolution to separate ourselves from England. France never faught England. The Civil War never happened.

People believe these things.
Isn't that depressing?

[mph4ever]

vee have a nauzee amongst uz, no?

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=553062

[Mr. Ron]

why would neo-nazis even want to deny the holocaust? Wouldn't they like the fact that their leader slaughtered millions of their natural enemy?

[mph4ever]

why would neo-nazis even want to deny the holocaust? Wouldn't they like the fact that their leader slaughtered millions of their natural enemy?

because they believe that it never happened. they think hitler was planning on sending all the jews to madagascar

[Mr. Ron]

lol

[-Obscurity-]

This is obviously just propaganda of the Gay KK. How it fits into their evil man-lovin' schemes I'll never know, but it's gay and it's KK. That only means one thing.

[marcus_in_absentia]

haha lol

[Linkinbassist]

There is nothing to deny here. The Holocaust happened. We have gas chambers to prove it. We have thousands of witness testimonies to prove it from all sides. We have pictures to prove it. We have legal documents and meeting minutes to prove it was planned and executed. It is the most researched Epoch in History.

The Holocaust happened. Anyone who says to the contrary is just wrong...

[mph4ever]

There is nothing to deny here. The Holocaust happened. We have gas chambers to prove it. We have thousands of witness testimonies to prove it from all sides. We have pictures to prove it. We have legal d0cuments and meeting minutes to prove it was planned and executed. It is the most researched Epoch in History.

The Holocaust happened. Anyone who says to the contrary is just wrong...


and anti zionist

[maxwell_1888]

and anti zionist

Well you can be anti-zionism and still accept the validity of the historical events of the holocaust.

[mph4ever]

Well you can be anti-zionism and still accept the validity of the historical events of the holocaust.

of course you can

but they seem to go together from time to time

[Cain]

why would neo-nazis even want to deny the holocaust? Wouldn't they like the fact that their leader slaughtered millions of their natural enemy?

I wondered that too, but the truth is that it serves their political purposes to instead convince us that it is a Jewish conspiracy designed to further their control over us. Denial serves not to exonerate the Nazis of wrongdoing in the same sense that American racists have claimed in the past ("slaves loved their owners") but rather to preserve and spread belief in the anti-Semitic foundations that resulted in the Holocaust.

Obviously neo-Nazis have their counterfactual and factual rhetoric so tightly wound that what kills me the most about things like the Israel lobby and all that crap is that it gives credence to ideas like these. Uneducated Arabs for instance can see no other logical explanation for the unconditional U.S. support of Israel to the detriment of every Arab community than the idea that Jews control everything behind the scenes and dominate the West with the memory of the Holocaust--which, when looked at from a certain perspective, has some legitimate truth to it. Such cynicism makes it consequently easy to believe that it's not just Jews exploiting history but making up history to solidify their control. It gives idiots like Ahmadinejad a base to operate from and expand on, and makes the craziness of Holocaust denial seem like it makes sense.

This is also one reason why I think Israel can't possibly survive as a nation past this century without becoming a total monstrosity. The nation's very obsession with the Holocaust in dictating their security precautions and fears means that Israel can neither succeed in normalizing Jews in the national sphere in the minds of either Jew-haters or the Jews themselves.

[hismajestythepope]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3X2vUMh9Hr0&feature=related

Do they have any sufficient evidence to back up their claims?

people are still saying the world is flat

the world is a funny place

[McP3000]

who cares what a few nutjobs say

[Jude]

^^ this it's not like anybody out of their moonshine-sippin redneck circle of "white supremacists" is going to listen

[Murdererer]

what the heck is a holocaust anyway? sounds like a genuine scam....

[Give me Beer]

If you want a debate about the points the video makes. They're in no way historically sound. Just the first one, the guy who took samples of the wall and said there wasn't any cyanide on it, was scraping them off walls of bunkers that had been blown up and had been standing there in the wind and the rain for 50 years. Counter analysis has been done on bunkers that were still in 'good' shape' which did turn up samples, as well as the way the rooms were designed point in the direction of them having those uses.

Selective reading of the evidence is rather a lame trick, innit.

[Murdererer]

how do we know what happend if ppl think it never happend?

[Chriblan]

who cares its 2008 the holocaust is irrelevant

That's a very uneducated and naive opinion my friend.

We learn from the past so things like that are not recreated... what a stupid statement. stfu.

----

The holocaust did happen, whoever says that is a complete moron. Too much evidence supports the holocaust. Way too much... it happened.

[PerpetualBurn]

If something sounds too good to be true...

[Dimmu Burger]

People just love conspiracy theories, myself included. They are fun to read etc if they are well thought out, stricly as fiction. If you actually believe it then, yeah you have some problems.

[Det_Nosnip]

People also believe that the world is flat and that an anthropomorphic God watches over them and frowns when they masturbate.

Life sucks.

[YouGottaBeCrazy]

An argument that white nationalists often use is that the reason Jews have made holocaust denial such a taboo is because it is all a scam. In other words, if the evidence clearly points out that the holocaust did in fact happen, then there should be no reason for people to be arrested simply for questioning the genocide's validity. If you have nothing to hide, then there is no reason to suppress information or freedom of speech. This thinking usually coincides with various quotes related to the idea of how if the majority believe something, even if it is a lie, it essentially becomes fact in modern society no matter what. To these groups, primarily Stormfront, the Jews have enough control over our media to completely shove the Holocaust down our throat to the point where it has now become something that you can not deny unless you want to be seen as an outcast in society.

[siva_chair]

^^ this it's not like anybody out of their moonshine-sippin redneck circle of "white supremacists" is going to listen

I bet more Arabs deny the holocaust than these moonshine sippers.

[Jude]

I bet more Arabs deny the holocaust than these moonshine sippers.

ok so

[siva_chair]

ok so

Just pointing out that Holocaust denial is hardly a white racist phenomenon.

[Against Miik!]

i've been to the camps, they could do more to improve the tourist experience. maybe a few real life repeats with the local zionist choral society

i'd like to see a proof based debate between someone who does believe it did happen and someone who says it didn't

I was at Auschwitz on Hitler's birthday a few years ago (coincidence) and I was in the basement of one of the buildings where they kept people and there were two neo nazi kids down there and they were speaking German so I don't know what they were saying but I walked away.

[Futue te Ipsum]

i think most people here are using very strange definitions of proof with regards to historical events

[Jude]

Just pointing out that Holocaust denial is hardly a white racist phenomenon.

OK so change it to jihad-sippin

[siva_chair]

OK so change it to jihad-sippin

Rollin down the street smoking shishas, sippin on jihad juice...

Laid back. With my mind on Muhammad and Muhammad on my mind....

[Jude]

With my mind on Muhammad and Muhammad on my mind....

This made me lol for some reason

[siva_chair]

This made me lol for some reason

If you say it fast enough it almost sounds like you are really speaking Arabic.

[YouGottaBeCrazy]

Rollin down the street smoking shishas, sippin on jihad juice...

Laid back. With my mind on Muhammad and Muhammad on my mind....

hahaha

[siva_chair]

With so much drama in the world of jihad
Its kinda hard bein Mahmoud Ahmadinejad
But i, somehow, some way
Keep comin up with funky *** **** to piss the West off like every single day
May i, kick a little something for the Shiites (yeah)
And, enrich uranium as (yeah!) I breeze, through
Two in the mornin and the oils still pumpin
Cause my momma aint home
I got bitches without Hijabs gettin stoned
And, they aint leavin til six in the mornin (six in the mornin)
So what you wanna do, sheeite
I got a vest full of explosives and my homeboys do too
So turn off the lights and close the doors
But (but what) we dont love them Jews, yeah!
So we gonna smoke a ounce to this
Gs up, hoes down, while you mother****ers bounce to this....

[Jude]

If you say it fast enough it almost sounds like you are really speaking Arabic.

Not really (I speak Arabic) (but I'm in a public place right now so i'm not actually gonna say it out loud) (there need to be more Muslim gangstas)

[McP3000]

siva has a sense of humor who would have thought

[Knifeboy]

I was at Auschwitz on Hitler's birthday a few years ago (coincidence) and I was in the basement of one of the buildings where they kept people and there were two neo nazi kids down there and they were speaking German so I don't know what they were saying but I walked away.

that was like the lamest anecdote ever

[Iskandar]

Not really (I speak Arabic) (but I'm in a public place right now so i'm not actually gonna say it out loud) (there need to be more Muslim gangstas)I think it does, a bit.

It's not really surprising if Arabs are anti-Semitic given a) the Arab world being in constant conflict with Israel and b) that's what some Arab countries, like Saudi Arabia, teach in schools. It's the ruling regimes' fault if anything.

[StreetlightRock]

It was like a senile granny joke.

[Jude]

I think it does, a bit.

It's not really surprising if Arabs are anti-Semitic given a) the Arab world being in constant conflict with Israel and b) that's what some Arab countries, like Saudi Arabia, teach in schools. It's the ruling regimes' fault if anything.

Basically ya

It's to anti-Israel propagandists' benefit to deny the Holocaust because the Holocaust is so often cited as an excuse for Jews to do whatever the hell they want

And your average Arab has no experience with Jews other than as imperialist oppressors so they have no reason not to believe the propaganda

I've also heard it denied that the Jewish temple ever existed on the Temple Mount and again people have no reason to question that so they never do

[Iskandar]

The same discriminatory attitude exists against Arabs in Israel where they're generally seen as cheap labour when they're not busy being terrorists.

Thomas Friedman relates a story of his experience with this attitude in Israel. When an Israel man was doing renovation on his house, he had to knock down a wall. He said "just get an Arab." It wasn't get a hammer. It was get an Arab.

[Super Batman]

I was at Auschwitz on Hitler's birthday a few years ago (coincidence) and I was in the basement of one of the buildings where they kept people and there were two neo nazi kids down there and they were speaking German so I don't know what they were saying but I walked away.

You're black. They were talking about lynching you and making a cotton field on your grave.

[Mister_Che]

You cant proove the past, you can provide very srong evidence for it and there is very strong evidence for the hollocaust happening. Almost every "problem" in that video is very easily explained away, some by just basic common sense.

I've heard people say this before.

Is this even a slightly common idea that you can't ever really prove the past? It's one of the most rock-**** stupid thing I've ever heard. Is there something I'm missing?

[Mr. Ron]

Just got done reading Eichmann in Jerusalem, actually. Its surprising how many Jewish leaders cooperated with the Nazis.

[mph4ever]

Just got done reading Eichmann in Jerusalem, actually. Its surprising how many Jewish leaders cooperated with the Nazis.


funded them to

[YouGottaBeCrazy]

But I thought all Jews work together to take over the world?

[mph4ever]

But I thought all Jews work together to take over the world?

nah, thats only the jewish jews

[YouGottaBeCrazy]

So some Jews want to Jew other Jews? God, they're so crafty that they even steal from each other!

[Det_Nosnip]

I've heard people say this before.

Is this even a slightly common idea that you can't ever really prove the past? It's one of the most rock-**** stupid thing I've ever heard. Is there something I'm missing?

Congratulations for discovering post-modernism. :p

[siva_chair]

(there need to be more Muslim gangstas)

I am in total agreement with you on this.

[Det_Nosnip]

I'm sure there are a few but they're probably not Arabs.

[siva_chair]

Ok there needs to be more Persian and Arab gangstas is that better?

[McP3000]

yes its politically correct now

[Det_Nosnip]

Well, it's not a matter of political correctness...it's just that I assumed when you said "there needs to be more Muslim gangsters" you weren't thinking of inner city black Malcom X wannabes.

[McP3000]

nah brah its cool i feel ya

[siva_chair]

Well, it's not a matter of political correctness...it's just that I assumed when you said "there needs to be more Muslim gangsters" you weren't thinking of inner city black Malcom X wannabes.

You are correct, I wasn't referring to them.

I wish there were more Malcom X wannabes tbh, though. Particularly ones that advocate his later philosophy.

[Give me Beer]

Not really (I speak Arabic) (but I'm in a public place right now so i'm not actually gonna say it out loud) (there need to be more Muslim gangstas)

Come over here some time, if you feel like seein' Muslim 'Gangstahs'. Be careful what you wish for. :lol:

Some examples:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJnkkoYXwWc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VAq3DtUPis

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ti5IBxF9m9E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NkMTXBKAWI

Oh ****, I **** myself laughing. Especially the guy in the last one with his 'Terrorist' T-shirt, lolz.

[Jude]

Just got done reading Eichmann in Jerusalem, actually. Its surprising how many Jewish leaders cooperated with the Nazis.

Was it because they thought the Nazis were just kicking Jews out and they thought that would bring more Jews to Palestine?

Well, it's not a matter of political correctness...it's just that I assumed when you said "there needs to be more Muslim gangsters" you weren't thinking of inner city black Malcom X wannabes.

Hahahah yeah I thought of that later

[peeted]

I've heard people say this before.

Is this even a slightly common idea that you can't ever really prove the past? It's one of the most rock-**** stupid thing I've ever heard. Is there something I'm missing?

How is it stupid? how would you go about PROVING the past? Im not claiming anything radical or crazy (or post modern), its just that the justification you need for knowledge of the past is never in the form of a proof the way it is in maths or logic, and its far harder (though not impossible) to falsify historical theorys. The evidence (and therefore justification) for beliefs and knowledge about history is cumulative and therefore it is not proof, more evidence will allways exist which could, for all the historian knows, be a defeter for their model.

If you want to offer a method of prooving historical theorys then be my guest, lack of proof doesnt mean lack of knowledge though, i know the hollocaust happend because of the overwellming amount of evidence there is to support the claim.

[YouGottaBeCrazy]

History is not written objectively.

[Super Batman]

But it is still written.
We can gather general information, and then rely not only on writing, but on archieological and physical evidence. Yes?

[YouGottaBeCrazy]

Of course.