How should we go about buying recording equipment for a metal band?

[Growls Gurgles N Screams]

How should we go about buying recording equipment for a metal band?
We're pretty stumped.
Nothing to pricey please

[Seafroggys]

Just go use a real studio.

[Growls Gurgles N Screams]

what if we just wanted to record a demo.
cuz we dont wanna spend money for studio time.

[Seafroggys]

so....you'd rather spend money on recording equipment?

There's two classes of aspiring recording engineers I see....those that actually want to do the art out of curiosity and/or love, and those that see it as a way to be even cheaper than they already are.

The former I encourage with help....the latter I say go to a studio, since it WILL be cheaper, it WILL be easier on you, and it WILL sound much better.

[Motleyguy]

I agree with Froggys. By the time you buy the gear you'd need to make a half decent demo, you're already better off going to a studio. Gear is not cheap, at all. In my area, I know of at least 3 mid level commercial studios that you can book for less than $400/day. Which is a very good deal. Not to mention, if you just go to a studio, it will sound infinitely better, I guarantee it. Look around locally, there's probably some dude like Froggys or I or Moseph etc. with a basement studio that'll do your demo for a very low price. Or save up and go to a commercial studio, it's good experience at the very least.

[Aaron]

Studio time = cheaper than drum mics alone.

[fuzzyhair]

http://hubpages.com/hub/How-To-Record-Music-For-Less-Than-150
I wrote this a while ago. The drum programming is a bitch, but it should give you decent quality.
We used it to record "Drowning".
http://www.myspace.com/aegisdeathmetal

[pikester]

If you don't know what you need, you won't know how to use it, and it will sound bad.

[EADGC]

Unfortunately recording equipment doesn't mean much if you don't know how to use it. +1 on studio time.

[Motleyguy]

If you don't know what you need, you won't know how to use it, and it will sound bad.

/thread.

[fuzzyhair]

If you don't know what you need, you won't know how to use it, and it will sound bad.

True, but once he learns to record he can produce some decent songs with everything in front of him.

[El Calle Gato]

True, but once he learns to record he can produce some decent songs with everything in front of him.

but thats not what he wants to do. he is not interested in recording as a seperate art form. he is interested in home recording bc its cheaper than a studio. and depending on where hes starting out and what hell need, its not cheaper than a studio.

place by me records 5 songs demo with pre-production for $1200. thats probably less than youd spend on home recording equpiment NOT including computer. plus, you know, they know what they are doing. im sure the TS could find a place like this around him.

[Moseph]

(01) There's nothing wrong with DIY, regardless of motivation to do it.

You have to remember that studio time is cheaper in the middle-range, but much more expensive at the extremes. For a budget of $500-800 or so, you're likely to find better results in the short term with a studio.

The usual rates I've seen for professionals who have reasonably expensive equipment is $35-65/hour. I've also generally found that a single track featuring a 4 or 5 person band will generally take about 3-6 hours to record or mix (i.e., about 6-12 hours to record AND mix). So $500 will get you somewhere around 10 hours in a studio, which will probably get you about 3 tracks recorded and mixed: that's your demo.

However, if your budget is quite short (say, $400 or less), you're looking at the situation where you can't afford the cost of another person on the session. In this situation, you basically need to purchase your own "sub-par" gear and do the work yourself. What's nice about this is that once you own the equipment, it's yours to reuse next time, or to keep using to re-work your current demo. On an infinite timeline, you can eventually take that money and eventually have it effectively cost the equivalent of a few dollars/hour. While it's true you probably had to make some sacrifices (maybe program your drums or avoid some of the "industry standard" mics in favor of low-end gear), there is absolutely zero reason you can't learn your gear, get a good sounding demo together, and move on from there. I say this from personal experience: my work using my personal equipment (it tallies up to something like $7000 over 5 years) has been compared favorably to the work of other engineers using a facility that provided some $650,000 worth of stuff.

Though it's less useful to analyze in this audience, the same is basically true of large budgets ($10,000+), the difference being that you can afford to purchase "industry standard" stuff in the first place, and any engineers you work with will end up being your only long-term costs.

(02) The thread starter didn't really provide enough information to give reasonable advice.

Everyone made assumptions about how much money was involved, what the thread starters primary goals were, the time-line of the project, and even about the instrumentation of his group. GGNS, please give us more information about what you're working with here. What's "too pricey"? What sort of results are you looking for? Do you have preconceptions about how you want to work? What gear do you already have? Do you plan to use a computer? That sort of stuff.

(03) Money is not necessarily the bottom line. Other factors like scheduling, availability of equipment, availability of studio time, compatibility with engineers, artistic ideals, artistic goals, and clarity of artistic goals all factor into it. The budget could just be a guiding factor for the group to try to determine how pragmatic the real objectives are.

[Seafroggys]

Everyone made assumptions about how much money was involved,[/QUOTE]

While you do offer good points, if the TS is so worried about money, then he probably has very little at all.

If the band has their act together, and they can play the song very well live (which is what demos are anyway) they can probably record 5-6 takes for each song in an hour. Which, needless to say, is pretty cheap, especially if they nail it in less than that.

[Aaron]

Depends what equipment they currently have too. If the guitarists and bass players have guitars, amps, etc and the vocalist has a decent vocal mic.. then buying an 8-track mixer, three DIs and some lower-level drum mics wont blow the budget if [im assuming band size] 5 people chip in $150 each, that's if one of them has an okay computer.

You never know, you may even find someone studying music production that is willing to come help you record at your practice space if you put an add out. I know from my studies in recording that if I have the time spare, I'm happy to help out a brother if they shout me lunch; I mean, us sound-nerds love the art, so it's not really work.

My suggestion is to sit down with your band, write out a list of ALL the gear you have, your budget and what you aim to get out of it. If you can attain those goals within the budget using the equipment you have and a bit of creativity start reading up on recording online, or maybe go to a night class on it. If you're serious about your band, you'll love the stuff anyway and see the return on your investment.

[Moseph]

Everyone made assumptions about how much money was involved

While you do offer good points, if the TS is so worried about money, then he probably has very little at all.

If the band has their act together, and they can play the song very well live (which is what demos are anyway) they can probably record 5-6 takes for each song in an hour. Which, needless to say, is pretty cheap, especially if they nail it in less than that.

Right, except "very little at all" is a very subjective phrase too.

My most money-minded client routinely hires me for long stretches of time (5-7 hours) and routinely goes way over the estimated session length (the last session was 13 hours). If he couldn't afford it, then at some point he would cut off the session or a check would bounce. Neither has happened yet. Being conscious of expenses is not the same as being broke.

[Aus_rock_god]

How should we go about buying recording equipment for a metal band?
We're pretty stumped.
Nothing to pricey please

Normally I just go into the music show and buy it... :thumb: lol


Just get some Behringer stuff man. Okay quality and cheep. Just don't drop it.

[El Calle Gato]

if u really wanted to be ghetto you could get a fostex 8-track(200), a large flash card(60), couple sets of headphones(30x2), buy two art studio tube preamps(30x2), two cheap omni pattern condensers(70x2), and be set for a rough rough demo.

thatll cost you around......$420 i guess, if i counted correctly. well, plus two micstands, two cables, and assuming you have decent equipment, just set those mics up in the middle of the room and start recording the band in stereo. then over dub the all te vocals on the 6 other available tracks. i cant stress how rough this will be, but itll be something.

myspace.com/5dc i did the songs on there with the fostex mr8, an audix o2, and an acoustic/electric. they are acoustic, but you can kinda get an idea for the sound quality.

that kind of a set-up is easy to use, you can take it anywhere, and its kinda cheap. if you have a good computer, and are willing to set-it up in your practice space, you can go even cheaper with a stereo usb intereface (like a tascam us-122 for 130), and you wont need the preamps or the memory card. but you need a computer that can handle it. and its more complicated.

i hope this is a better answer than my last one.

[Motleyguy]

Normally I just go into the music show and buy it... :thumb: lol


Just get some Behringer stuff man. Okay quality and cheep. Just don't drop it.

I disagree, Behringer is not quality anything, it's complete crap. The only piece of Behringer gear I'd maybe ever find myself using, is a little mixer for band practice. Everything else I've had nothing but issues with. First example coming to mind is the Composer compressor... sounds like crap and both of the two I've used (in different studios) have added an unacceptable amount of noise to the signal.

Generally, the rule is you get what you pay for, and Behringer is no exception to that rule. You pay very little, and you get utter crap in return. The only somewhat exception to this rule that I have found is Apex microphones. Moderately priced, and alright quality. I've used them on multiple recordings and found good results.

[Aaron]

I find my pair of C2s does a great job for minimalist recording. I mean, I had them in an XY phase near a window and it got a fantastic recording of a storm with clarity.

[Motleyguy]

Never used the mics, just assuming because everything else they make is crap, that the mics would be also.

[Aaron]

C2s are $100AU for a matched pair, but considering their peers in this price-range they go okay. Not drum overhead mics really [although I've used them for this], but for a simple source, they do well as far as clarity and tone.

[Motleyguy]

the fact that they're that cheap scares me, I doubt I'd ever even bother to try them.

[Seafroggys]

Naiant makes some mics in the $30-40 USD range, and those are decent for certain applications.

But Naiant is worth many more times their value since its a solo hand-assembled deal.

Anything else that cheap would scare the crap out of me. Especially a condensor.

[Aaron]

Good mics can be made to sound bad easily man. I've heard so many recordings where I've thought; "so much wasted gear for that output." The reverse can be true. A good room and patience can make really basic mics pull out good sounds.

edit; had a google and that Naiant stuff looks excellent. Might buy some.

[Aus_rock_god]

I disagree, Behringer is not quality anything, it's complete crap. The only piece of Behringer gear I'd maybe ever find myself using, is a little mixer for band practice. Everything else I've had nothing but issues with. First example coming to mind is the Composer compressor... sounds like crap and both of the two I've used (in different studios) have added an unacceptable amount of noise to the signal.

Generally, the rule is you get what you pay for, and Behringer is no exception to that rule. You pay very little, and you get utter crap in return. The only somewhat exception to this rule that I have found is Apex microphones. Moderately priced, and alright quality. I've used them on multiple recordings and found good results.

I dunno. I've found Behringer condencers pretty good, and their mixers don't add a lot of noise (though they don't put out a lot of volume either).

But you're right about any rack gear. Same goes for their guitar amps and fx pedals.

[Seafroggys]

Good mics can be made to sound bad easily man. I've heard so many recordings where I've thought; "so much wasted gear for that output." The reverse can be true. A good room and patience can make really basic mics pull out good sounds.

edit; had a google and that Naiant stuff looks excellent. Might buy some.

Obviously a good mic in a bad room will sound bad. But a bad mic in a bad room will sound worse.

Yeah, I have the top of the line Naiant, I think the X-M series, so amazing.