View Full Version : 2008 Album of the Year
Aftermath
11-25-2008, 05:44 PM
I'm curious to see what you say the metal album of the year is. I'd say A Sense of Purpose by In Flames, one of the best I've heard in a while.
I'll also give props to B4MV for releasing what is, in my opinion, a pretty good album after that hopeless sorry sack of emo crap called The Poison.
Wait about 6 weeks and we'll be having a nice jolly competition for album of the year.
Correction
11-25-2008, 05:49 PM
album of the year lists always get me in the holiday spirit
0m3ga0n3
11-25-2008, 05:52 PM
Top 5:
Cynic - Traced In Air
Planetary Duality - The Faceless
Fortress - Protest The Hero
obZen - Meshuggah
Lazarus Bird - Burst
AngelPhoenix
11-25-2008, 05:58 PM
That's a nice top 5. Cynic would be #1 for me as well.
Volt2187
11-25-2008, 06:55 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm curious to see what you say the metal album of the year is. I'd say A Sense of Purpose by In Flames, one of the best I've heard in a while.
I'll also give props to B4MV for releasing what is, in my opinion, a pretty good album after that hopeless sorry sack of emo crap called The Poison.
In Flames and Bullet for my Valentine?
lol
o and lol at calling The Poison emo, when compared to their last piece of **** that they called an album.
My personal top 5, in no order:
Arsis - We Are the Nightmare
The Faceless - Planetary Duality
As Eden Burns - The Great Celestial Dilusion
The Breathing Process - In Waking:Divinity (not really liked around here, but I love it)
With Faith or Flames - A Conquest Triumphant
AngelPhoenix
11-25-2008, 06:56 PM
Speaking of lol, your top 5 haha
rasputin
11-25-2008, 07:00 PM
hahaha, good call
Skepticism - Alloy
Arghoslent - Hornets of the Pogrom
Phalanx - Psychosis
Dead Congregation - Graves of the Archangels
Mourning Beloveth - A Disease for the Ages
Volt2187
11-25-2008, 07:00 PM
My personal top 5
Dimmu Burger
11-26-2008, 08:41 AM
I agree about Arsis. Great album. Opeth gets a nomination from me as well. I'll have to look through my music to nominate some stuff once we do the real deal.
radtaste
11-26-2008, 09:32 AM
1.
http://cdn.sparkart.net/slipknot1/content/releases/144_Front.jpg
RiceMonster
11-26-2008, 09:43 AM
2.
http://cdn.sparkart.net/slipknot1/content/releases/144_Front.jpg
jingledeath
11-26-2008, 09:43 AM
Opeth-Watershed
Amon Amarth-TOTTG
Scar Symmetry-Holographic Universe
Bloodbath-The Fathomless Mastery
Slipknot-All Hope is Gone (Dun dun dun dun!!!!):P
trtrzgunners
11-26-2008, 09:45 AM
Death Magnetic
Dimmu Burger
11-26-2008, 09:58 AM
3.
http://cdn.sparkart.net/slipknot1/content/releases/144_Front.jpg
Meatplow
11-26-2008, 10:00 AM
04378. Minor Threat - [Minor Threat: Complete Discography CD1 #02] I Don't Wanna Hear It
no bullshit
PitDestroyer
11-26-2008, 10:01 AM
Declaration or In The Shadows Of A Thousand Suns
Dimmu Burger
11-26-2008, 10:05 AM
Declaration or In The Shadows Of A Thousand Suns
I enjoy both of those, but I doubt they'll remotely win here.
Murdererer
11-26-2008, 10:05 AM
DeathMagnetix
Altmer
11-26-2008, 10:09 AM
cynic - traced in air
Dimmu Burger
11-26-2008, 10:10 AM
cynic - traced in air
That will probably do quite well.
Altmer
11-26-2008, 10:12 AM
well of course I am on a Cynic high but I really dig that one like nothing else this year
Yeah, Traced In Air and Watershed will be the top two no matter what.
radtaste
11-26-2008, 10:17 AM
2.
http://cdn.sparkart.net/slipknot1/content/releases/144_Front.jpg
3.
http://cdn.sparkart.net/slipknot1/content/releases/144_Front.jpg
I think I see what you did there.
interviewer02
11-26-2008, 10:21 AM
Yeah, Traced In Air and Watershed will be the top two no matter what.
I'd say Watershed in the top 5, but maybe not two.
Altmer
11-26-2008, 10:23 AM
Yeah, Traced In Air and Watershed will be the top two no matter what.
don't think Watershed is top 5 for me but cynic is
Dimmu Burger
11-26-2008, 10:31 AM
For my Watershed is and Cynic isn't. Though I haven't had much time to get into Cynic.
For me neither are top 5 but I guarantee they will be in my competition.
SlightlyEpic
11-26-2008, 10:35 AM
Haven't really listened to an awful lot of albums from this year but I enjoyed this one among others.
http://www.musichristian.com/images/products/UOcover_b.jpg
Dimmu Burger
11-26-2008, 10:46 AM
I enjoy it as well. I probably wouldn't put it in my top 5 though.
Murdererer
11-26-2008, 10:48 AM
i hate underoath because they are christian bitchez
Dimmu Burger
11-26-2008, 10:55 AM
i hate underoath because they are christian bitchez
FU whore. Christians are the effin sh*t!
Murdererer
11-26-2008, 10:59 AM
KoRn is the s*it
Dimmu Burger
11-26-2008, 11:00 AM
I love their bassist. So unique!
Dimmu Burger
11-26-2008, 11:01 AM
clunk clunk clickity click clunk!!
Murdererer
11-26-2008, 11:08 AM
he invented the 5 string guitar
Moon Flavor
11-26-2008, 11:12 AM
Maps & Atlases- You and Me and the Mountains
The #12LLY- Mongrel
^couple of underdog contenders that i'd be rooting for
edit: Fieldy has some good lines on the Self-titled, he hadn't turned his treble all the way up at that point
Murdererer
11-26-2008, 11:14 AM
take a look in the mirror he had a heavy sound
2muchket!
11-26-2008, 02:36 PM
Protest the Hero - Fortress for me
Good thing we don't have to wait too long till what will undoubtedly be 2009's best album, as Architects 3rd album is out in January ;)
bringonthebreakdown
11-26-2008, 02:42 PM
For my Watershed is and Cynic isn't. Though I haven't had much time to get into Cynic.
same here. tia = massively over-rated imo
1. Cynic - Traced In Air
2. Protest the Hero - Fortress
3. Arsis - We Are the Nightmare
4. Underoath - Lost in the Sound of Separation
5. Scar Symmetry - Holographic Universe
6. Arghoslent - Hornets of the Pogrom
7. The Faceless - Planetary Duality
8. Opeth - Watershed
9. In Mourning - Shrouded Divine
10. Mirrorthrone - Gangrene
Si1v3RfaNg
11-26-2008, 02:48 PM
why does everyone think traced in air is so good, its not even metal.
Traced in Air.
why does everyone think traced in air is so good, its not even metal.
You say this as if all good music has to be metal. I can see why people troll you.
Si1v3RfaNg
11-26-2008, 02:51 PM
lmao
idk i mean its good, but fortress blows it away. and planetary duality is the ****
Si1v3RfaNg
11-26-2008, 02:52 PM
Traced in Air.
You say this as if all good music has to be metal. I can see why people troll you.
no i dont mean it has to be metal, its just i think its very overrated. and i get trolled because i make too many threads.
you get trolled for pretty much everything you do on this site
no i dont mean it has to be metal, its just i think its very overrated.In which case surely the fact it's "not even metal" is irrelevant?
and i get trolled because i make too many threads.
Because they are stupid like that post.
I'm going to leave now because I feel bad.
Si1v3RfaNg
11-26-2008, 02:56 PM
you get trolled for pretty much everything you do on this site
true, but thats just because... well idk lol. I dont really care, its just a website. And not many people flame my reviews (lately that is)
i mean i wouldn't want everyone on a site hating me, just sayin
Si1v3RfaNg
11-26-2008, 02:57 PM
In which case surely the fact it's "not even metal" is irreverent?
Because they are stupid like that post.
its not thats it irrelevant, i guess i should have said i think its stupid that they classify it under metal on this website, but focus is definately metal though.
I mean i'm not saying I enjoy being flamed, it's just that it doesn't really affect my life so I don't care.
And Thor who would dare flame you!? lol Yeah Thor when are you going to do that L.D. 50 review?
Altmer
11-26-2008, 03:01 PM
1. Cynic - Traced In Air
2. Protest The Hero - Fortress (how do I forget this one, not listened in a while)
3. Anathema - Hindsight
4. Gojira - The Way Of All Flesh
5. Meshuggah - obZen
6. Demians - Building An Empire
7. Opeth - Watershed
8. Draconian - Turning Season Within
9. Amon Amarth - Twilight of the Thunder God
10. Falconer - Amongst Beggars And Thieves
Si1v3RfaNg
11-26-2008, 03:04 PM
oh yeah here's my list
1. The Faceless- Planetary Duality
2. Protest the Hero- Fortress
3. Opeth- Watershed
4. Unearth- The March
5. Slipknot- All Hope Is Gone (Mainly because of Gehenna and the title track)
All Hope Is Gone was pretty damn good not gonna lie. It's just not top 10 material.
bringonthebreakdown
11-26-2008, 03:04 PM
i was but its by no means in the top of 08 for me
Altmer
11-26-2008, 03:04 PM
I wasn't a fan of obZen
combustion and bleed are so amazing
Si1v3RfaNg
11-26-2008, 03:04 PM
oh yeah ObZen is amazing, you got to be in the zone to listen to that kind of music though, it requires such concentration to catch the wierd time changes.
Thor you didnt like Pravus?
elmntrs
11-26-2008, 03:05 PM
1. Cynic - Traced In Air
2. Protest the Hero - Fortress
3. Arsis - We Are the Nightmare
4. Underoath - Lost in the Sound of Separation
5. Scar Symmetry - Holographic Universe
6. Arghoslent - Hornets of the Pogrom
7. The Faceless - Planetary Duality
8. Opeth - Watershed
9. In Mourning - Shrouded Divine
10. Mirrorthrone - Gangrene
awesome
Shattered_Future
11-26-2008, 03:07 PM
obZen definitely had its moments, but it pales to other Meshuggah albums.
Mine would be something like...
Mar De Grises - Draining The Waterheart
Suspyre - When Time Fades...
Arghoslent - Hornets of the Pogrom
Pantheist - Journey Through Lands Unknown
Lemuria - Get Better (this was surprisingly great)
Can't really think of any more until crunch time comes.
Oh man haven't heard the new Suspyre yet. I should get on that
Si1v3RfaNg
11-26-2008, 03:09 PM
btw Edge of Sanity needs to make a new album, I've been listening to Crimson like non-stop lately.
Si1v3RfaNg
11-26-2008, 03:10 PM
It won't happen.
It should, but your probably right though. Hey Slayer has a new album coming this approaching summer. So I'm excited as hell.
Mother
11-26-2008, 03:26 PM
Im waiting for new Savage Circus.
As for this year
Cynic
Scar Symmetry
Testament
Firewind
Pyramaze
playguitar
11-26-2008, 04:39 PM
Cynic, The Faceless, Meshuggah, Death Cab.
bastard
11-26-2008, 05:07 PM
It should, but your probably right though. Hey Slayer has a new album coming this approaching summer. So I'm excited as hell.
Christ Illusion 2.0.
killingyou
11-26-2008, 05:26 PM
Top 5:
Cynic - Traced In Air
Planetary Duality - The Faceless
Fortress - Protest The Hero
obZen - Meshuggah
Lazarus Bird - Burst
you forgot psycroptic. >=0
witchxrapist
11-26-2008, 05:37 PM
1. See You Next Tuesday - Intervals
2. Algernon Cadwallader - Some Kind Of Cadwallader
3. Intronaut - Prehistoricisms
4. Sed Non Satiata vs. Daitro
5. Underoath - Lost. In. The. Sound. Of. Separation.
Shattered_Future
11-26-2008, 05:39 PM
Oh man haven't heard the new Suspyre yet. I should get on that
Really really really really good. Production brings it down a little bit though...it's too clean.
Forgot about Burst and Intronaut too. Both were great.
witchxrapist
11-26-2008, 05:41 PM
nobody believed me when id talk about how amazing intronaut is :rolleyes:
wtf at everybody loving Suspyre now.
witchxrapist
11-26-2008, 05:51 PM
pretty much what im saying right now but different band :lol:
Shattered_Future
11-26-2008, 05:57 PM
I liked both before these albums came out...Suspyre not so much, but this new album of theirs is seriously terrific.
As for Intronaut, I liked Void the most still.
bastard
11-26-2008, 06:09 PM
1. See You Next Tuesday - Intervals
2. Algernon Cadwallader - Some Kind Of Cadwallader
3. Intronaut - Prehistoricisms
4. Sed Non Satiata vs. Daitro
5. Underoath - Lost. In. The. Sound. Of. Separation.
not suprised at 1 and 5.
witchxrapist
11-26-2008, 06:10 PM
ur cute
bastard
11-26-2008, 06:12 PM
new cynic is #1
witchxrapist
11-26-2008, 06:12 PM
looooooooooooooooooooooooool
bastard
11-26-2008, 06:14 PM
1. See You Next Tuesday - Intervals
loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool
witchxrapist
11-26-2008, 06:14 PM
yeah see you next tuesday is totally not cool but cynic is the coolest i forgot
bastard
11-26-2008, 06:16 PM
glad you got that point in your head!
witchxrapist
11-26-2008, 06:17 PM
guys cynic is sooooooo cool, didnt u see the ratings on rym?
witchxrapist
11-26-2008, 06:18 PM
honorable mention:
united nations, embrace the end, have heart, & ceremony
Skinners
11-26-2008, 06:20 PM
I actually hated cynics new album, and their old one at that. Some of the guitar lines were alright but the vocals are not my cup of tea, at all.
elmntrs
11-26-2008, 06:30 PM
guys cynic is sooooooo cool, didnt u see the ratings on rym?
http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/5391/359qd0.png
witchxrapist
11-26-2008, 06:31 PM
the new embrace the end got a 3.75...
elmntrs
11-26-2008, 06:34 PM
thats because people who dont like that **** dont know who they are
witchxrapist
11-26-2008, 06:37 PM
actually, more of the hardcore elitists ive met (not on the internets) are more open to say, embrace the end and animosity and no other deathcore
Skinners
11-26-2008, 06:41 PM
It's like the coldplay of the metal scene, they're not metal at all. The same way the real coldplay isn't rock but actually sobmusic for kindergarten teachers going through menopause.
2muchket!
11-26-2008, 07:01 PM
1. Protest the Hero - Fortress
2. Psycroptic - Ob(Servant)
3. Dead Swans - Southern Blue
4. Misery Signals - Controller
5. Underoath - Lost in the Sound of Seperation
witchxrapist
11-26-2008, 07:37 PM
southern blue was 2008? i thought it was 2007
McP3000
11-26-2008, 07:47 PM
the only album in here that is worthy of my top five that has been mentioned is arghoslent.
but then again the other 4 aren't metal so i guess that makes sense.
2muchket!
11-27-2008, 07:09 AM
southern blue was 2008? i thought it was 2007
7 song version was '08
I'm pretty sure it was anyways
Dimmu Burger
11-27-2008, 10:59 AM
actually, more of the hardcore elitists ive met (not on the internets) are more open to say, embrace the end and animosity and no other deathcore
Embrace The End was the first deathcore band I got into. I didn't even know it was deathcore at the time, lol. I was like "This is the heaviest metalcore album I've ever heard!"
OllieS
11-27-2008, 11:44 AM
Kiuas - The New Dark Age. Ownage!
Angmar
11-27-2008, 12:35 PM
Mappy you best let off the Cynic hate before I spill your dark secret.
manos87
11-27-2008, 05:21 PM
Without any order
Burst-Lazarus Bird
Metallica-Death Magnetic
Alpha Galates-A Stimulus for Reason
Portishead-Third
Beardfish-Sleeping in Traffic pt2
RPWL-The RPWL Experience
The Stiletto Formal-!Fiesta Fiesta Fiesta Fiesta!
Opeth-Watershed
Sleepin Pillow-Apples on an Orange Tree
...and of course Steven Wilson-Insurgentes
Mappy you best let off the Cynic hate before I spill your dark secret.
oooh spill the goods gf
beans
11-27-2008, 05:46 PM
meshuggah-obzen
Si1v3RfaNg
11-27-2008, 08:58 PM
meshuggah-obzen
this
Permanent Solution
11-27-2008, 09:57 PM
Cynic, Burst and Opeth are the top 3 albums of teh year.
witchxrapist
11-27-2008, 10:12 PM
opeth's new one was p. bad
Permanent Solution
11-27-2008, 10:13 PM
It has really grown on me.
Si1v3RfaNg
11-27-2008, 10:15 PM
there were three good songs on it so yeah it wasn't good at all.
witchxrapist
11-27-2008, 10:31 PM
it has cool clean parts, but the "heavy" parts sound like the descriptions created when slsk elite kiddies make fun of opeth.
Si1v3RfaNg
11-27-2008, 10:32 PM
im just not a big fan of opeth, their good, i just cant listen to them that long.
Cynic is way better than opeth imo
Scuba_Steve
11-27-2008, 11:28 PM
Mind Eraser- Conscious Unconscious
ghettoeddo
11-27-2008, 11:43 PM
chinese democracy rofl
RetiredAt21
11-27-2008, 11:46 PM
Mind Eraser- Conscious Unconscious
So good.
TheSyncopath
11-28-2008, 12:58 AM
Cynic - Traced In Air
The immeasurable anticipation and excitement (15 LONG YEARS!), coupled with a downright flawless album make it the clear winner.
Virus278
11-28-2008, 01:02 AM
In Mourning - Shrouded Devine is definitely up their for me.
and yes Cynic's new album is great but the fact that half the people on here masturbate to it 10 times a day makes it a lot less appealing.
TheSyncopath
11-28-2008, 01:17 AM
In Mourning - Shrouded Devine is definitely up their for me.
and yes Cynic's new album is great but the fact that half the people on here masturbate to it 10 times a day makes it a lot less appealing.
It's not our fault that it's so awesome! :p
Pebster49
11-28-2008, 01:20 AM
hahaha, good call
Skepticism - Alloy
Arghoslent - Hornets of the Pogrom
Phalanx - Psychosis
Dead Congregation - Graves of the Archangels
Mourning Beloveth - A Disease for the Ages
nice, your missing Esoteric - The Maniacal Vale
bastard
11-28-2008, 01:57 AM
chinese democracy rofl
hey that was actually a good album.
YouGottaBeCrazy
11-28-2008, 05:44 AM
black people
Correction
11-28-2008, 08:03 AM
hey that was actually a good album.
no it wasnt
Crumpet
11-28-2008, 08:35 AM
erykah badu
alytee123
11-28-2008, 09:11 AM
Obzen, This Is Exile, Watershed, Chinese Democracy, Death Magnetic, Praises To The War Machine, my faves.
OmegaSwitch
11-28-2008, 02:58 PM
In terms of metal...
1. Coldworld- Melancholie²
2. Darkspace- Dark Space III
3. Agalloch- The White EP
4. Genghis Tron- Board Up the House
5. Virgin Black- Requiem - Fortissimo
I haven't listened to the new albums from Cynic and Skepticism, which are at the top of my wishlist at the moment. The new albums from Esoteric, Meshuggah, Cor Scorpii, Moonsorrow (well, the Tulimyrsky EP), Leviathan, Decrepit Birth, Celestia, Nachtmystium, and Ihsahn (and maybe Opeth, but Watershed really disappointed me) are up there in my book, as well.
ghettoeddo
11-28-2008, 05:50 PM
no it wasnt
guys guys
you're BOTH right.
AA-12
11-28-2008, 05:56 PM
Bon Iver - For Emma, Forever Ago
Jedi Mind Tricks - A History of Violence
then
Cynic - Traced In Air
edit: im retarded
Si1v3RfaNg
11-28-2008, 06:45 PM
Between the Buried and Me- Colors Live
Ventriloquist
11-28-2008, 07:20 PM
Cynic - Traced in Air
/thread
Correction
11-28-2008, 07:26 PM
1. Coldworld- Melancholie²
wins an internet
MentalityOfA
11-28-2008, 08:06 PM
Haha, Death Magnetic.
Good one.
I'll say Slipknot - All Hope Is Gone.
Angmar
11-28-2008, 08:07 PM
lol
McP3000
11-28-2008, 09:07 PM
Haha, Death Magnetic.
Good one.
I'll say Slipknot - All Hope Is Gone.
the irony
AA-12
11-28-2008, 09:40 PM
i think Kanye West - 808s & Heartbreak might take my #1 spot unless it wears off soon. this is too good coming from kanye.
Didn't you just get it like 4 hours ago?
MentalityOfA
11-28-2008, 09:55 PM
chinese democracy rofl
Lol.
MentalityOfA
11-28-2008, 10:02 PM
1. Protest the Hero - Fortress
2. Psycroptic - Ob(Servant)
3. Dead Swans - Southern Blue
4. Misery Signals - Controller
5. Underoath - Lost in the Sound of Seperation
Seriously? Underoath?
I like 'em but not that album.
It has too much of Aaron's whiny singing IMO.
AA-12
11-28-2008, 10:08 PM
Didn't you just get it like 4 hours ago?
less than.
rasputin
11-28-2008, 10:21 PM
Skepticism
Angmar
11-28-2008, 10:43 PM
Not enough Orrery love on these forums.
AA-12
11-28-2008, 10:45 PM
ronery
Angmar
11-28-2008, 10:46 PM
stfu
ghettoeddo
11-29-2008, 02:48 AM
this entire forum is way too elite for me.
bah. and i wonder why i've stuck around for the past 4 years :smash:
McP3000
11-29-2008, 02:50 AM
the dream theater thread probably
ghettoeddo
11-29-2008, 02:51 AM
oh **** you got me...
and the opeth thread.
manos87
11-29-2008, 09:09 AM
Bon Iver - For Emma, Forever Ago
Great album
Correction
11-29-2008, 10:00 AM
Not enough Orrery love on these forums.
cause that album isnt that good 8(
it is ****ing awesome, goddamn large bundle of sticks.
I still dont have my albums of the year list :( too many
but my favorite of the whole year probably is Have a Nice Life - Deathconsciousness
Angmar
11-29-2008, 11:36 AM
Deathconsciousness is probably my #3.
yeah, but you like dicks steve :(
Angmar
11-29-2008, 11:43 AM
wtf uncalled for
elmntrs
11-29-2008, 11:44 AM
have a nice life sux
Kingofdudes
11-29-2008, 11:44 AM
TV on the Radio - Dear Science is my favorite without a doubt, Cynic is aight, I need to look through my albums for moar
Angmar
11-29-2008, 11:46 AM
have a nice life sux
gay
OllieS
11-29-2008, 12:49 PM
1. Protest the Hero - Fortress
2. Psycroptic - Ob(Servant)
3. Dead Swans - Southern Blue
4. Misery Signals - Controller
5. Underoath - Lost in the Sound of Seperation
Yay generic lists!
willfellmarsy
11-29-2008, 12:53 PM
Braintoy-Vehicles...not the best of the year but top ten, maybe 5...quite overlooked, but has similarities to Porcupine Tree and Tool...check out the title track, possibly the best song released this year http://www.myspace.com/braintoy
manos87
11-29-2008, 02:11 PM
....... mistake. delete it
Luc214
11-29-2008, 02:16 PM
TV on the Radio - Dear Science is my favorite without a doubt, Cynic is aight, I need to look through my albums for moar
the TV on the Radio release is probably on my top list as well
it's tight as ****
and the Cynic, omg
McP3000
11-29-2008, 02:17 PM
i didnt like TV On The Radio at all
Luc214
11-29-2008, 02:19 PM
This album I dled by a band called Krallice might make my top list tbh. It's really good.
Mendigo
11-30-2008, 07:34 AM
why does no one realise Son Lux has recorded the year's best album and one of the best of this decade?
Havilah by The Drones is gonna be #2 (though actually it's only out in Australia until 2009), and United Nations #3.
Prince of Darkness
11-30-2008, 07:38 AM
I nominate Steven Wilson - Insurgentes
but not for Album of the Year. maybe top 5.
no idea, but added by top 5 to that other... thing and just put what came first to mind.
1. Blue Sky Black Death - Late Night Cinema
2. Deadbird - Twilight Ritual
3. Century - Black Ocean
4. Ufomammut - Idolum
5. Arghoslent - Hornets of The Pogrom
TheSyncopath
12-01-2008, 07:07 AM
My vote goes to Cynic - Traced In Air
Runner up:
Meshuggah - obZen
Cesar21
12-01-2008, 10:23 AM
Metal Album of year is Cynic - Traced In Air for me.
Overall it would be Thrice - Vol 3 & 4.
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