is political correctness gone mad?

[mph4ever]

so the rain in manchester is finally getting to them. toilets in parts of manchester university have been renamed "toilets" and "toilets with urinals" because their old names were considered "genderist".

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/7643136.stm

how far can we go to accommodate everyone and not begin to offend others?

[StreetlightRock]

*has

The problem with alot of gender theory is its right. But then they go do something ridiclious like that.

[hismajestythepope]

*has

edit **** you meng

[StreetlightRock]

nou!

[hismajestythepope]

**** :(

[mph4ever]

*has

The problem with alot of gender theory is its right. But then they go do something ridiclious like that.

like should they have signs that say

toilets for those with front fannys

toilets for those with a penis

or because you feel you are a female trapped in a male body but haven't gotten any changes made then you should be using the ladies

i think the biggest problem with this type of thing is that they usually let the administrators make the decision and these are usually over liberal failed academics

[hismajestythepope]

or because you feel you are a female trapped in a male body but haven't gotten any changes made then you should be using the ladies

well idk i always use the ladies room and nobody gives me a problem

and yeah holy **** thats the stupidest **** ive read in a while

'genderist' lol i like that

[DekWannaBFlea]

Who cares? I mean, sure it is absurd and ridiculous,but why should we care?

Maybe language needs to be change to be less exclusive. Sure **** can ridiculous but in the end what is more important?

[hismajestythepope]

idk i think its pretty ridiculous and the fact that people actually think little changes like that are important makes me want to hit people

does that make sense to you?

[DekWannaBFlea]

idk i think its pretty ridiculous and the fact that people actually think little changes like that are important makes me want to hit people

does that make sense to you?

No, Language can matter. The Human Race shouldn't be Mankind, etc. I mean, I guess I don't know why it should be something to get pissed about.

[jaredong]

i dont think its a big deal anyway. I think its great that people care about some things enough to do something about it. Even if I dont personally care/bothered about that thing, i think its important in society to have them.

plus, does that mean i can walk into "toilets"? If so! heh heh

[hismajestythepope]

in bs 'issues' like this, im gonna have to say that anybody who thinks that labeling a bath room for the use of males or females is sexist is ****ing moron with no respect for either gender distinction or for the english language itself

unless voices.kansascity.com disagrees i mean

[mph4ever]

what about when they change the name of the university to personchester

bunch of lefty liberal hippy stay in school all their lives dopes

[hismajestythepope]

^best post in this entire section tbh

[Smokey D]

The only thing more ridiculous than renaming toilets such is that people care.

[Chrysostom]

PC is more often than not ridiculous and infuriating, but what can you do? It seems to be the way the world is going these days.

[808]

I think men and women should be using the same restrooms anyway.

[PerpetualBurn]

They've done this in a student's union?

If this doesn't turn out to be a joke, I'll be amazed.

[McP3000]

The only thing more ridiculous than renaming toilets such is that people care.
what people that care? The people that to get the name changed for arbitrarily petty reasions, or the people that get mad at the politically correct for filtering language and being dickheads.
PC is more often than not ridiculous and infuriating, but what can you do? It seems to be the way the world is going these days.
just because the world is going towards liquid stupidity doesnt mean i should just sit and watch

[hismajestythepope]

that second part is pure elitery and 666% truth

[DekWannaBFlea]

in bs 'issues' like this, im gonna have to say that anybody who thinks that labeling a bath room for the use of males or females is sexist is ****ing moron with no respect for either gender distinction or for the english language itself

unless voices.kansascity.com disagrees i mean


You're right I hate the English language. I'm glad things have reached the point where I actually get made fun of for quoting sources while you are too lazy to actually prove a point by linking us to a source proving a point. But of course you can't because you are wrong.

Good one. Good luck at community college.

[Smokey D]

what people that care? The people that to get the name changed for arbitrarily petty reasions, or the people that get mad at the politically correct for filtering language and being dickheads.

Both groups are stupid. The bitterness with which people rail against political correctness is the only thing more tiresome than political correctness.

[hismajestythepope]

well no, i think people should speak out and ****ing put these morons in their place already, otherwise more and more pseudointellectual retards will actually take it seriously
You're right I hate the English language. I'm glad things have reached the point where I actually get made fun of for quoting sources while you are too lazy to actually prove a point by linking us to a source proving a point. But of course you can't because you are wrong.

Good one. Good luck at community college.

lol you take yourself seriously?

[McP3000]

why smokey

i mean why shouldnt we get mad at really stupid people who create tension in situations where theres not. If there is not need for change, then why change something?

I mean if any women or man got offended but the "man" or "women" signs outside bathrooms, they should be shot

[hismajestythepope]

i think you meant by not but

regardless yeah youre pretty much right mcp hi5

[Smokey D]

well no, i think people should speak out and ****ing put these morons in their place already, otherwise more and more pseudointellectual retards will actually take it seriously

One problem is 90% of people who argue against political correctness are just looking for excuses to be racist or chauvanists or whatever. And the other problem is that there is in many examples a good case for politically correct language.


i mean why shouldnt we get mad at really stupid people who create tension in situations where theres not. If there is not need for change, then why change?


The thing with political correctness is that it doesn't expect the white Texan male to think there's a problem. And that itself is the problem.

[hismajestythepope]

]One problem is 90% of people who argue against political correctness are just looking for excuses to be racist or chauvanists or whatever.[/B] And the other problem is that there is in many examples a good case for politically correct language.

bolded = absurd accusation

non-bolded = yes but in cases like this where its absolutely absurd those morons need to be put in their place

[Smokey D]

bolded = absurd accusation

Not really. The only people who seem to care are the ones who get in trouble when they say something obnoxious.



non-bolded = yes but in cases like this where its absolutely absurd those morons need to be put in their place

I can think of 10trillion other more important things in the world.

[hismajestythepope]

so can i, but the point still stands that when things like this happen, people should take action rather than just letting it slide, because it just gives the retards even more of a sense of empowerment

and that bolded part seriously is an absurd accusation, theres no skirting it

[McP3000]

One problem is 90% of people who argue against political correctness are just looking for excuses to be racist or chauvanists or whatever. And the other problem is that there is in many examples a good case for politically correct language.
First of all thats an arbitrary statistics, but i get the point where you mean majority.
Secondly, me, my family, and my friends (who share similar political platforms as me in terms of political correctness) are not racist or chauvinist. I think its a fairly unprecedented thought to think that there are still extreme amounts of racism and sexism in the country. YES, it exists, and YES, it produces problems. But most of these problems are blown way out of proportion, and in my opinion, the American society has reached the point where it no longer needs authoritative legislature such as political correctness to further the social advancement of "tolerance". We have been increasingly more accepting with each passing decade, more so from societal influences and stigma, than the governments involvement.
And doesnt political correctness come off as very frightening in a sense. I mean, the government simplfying your language and definition of subject to be less "offense", as if being "offense" isnt a subjective concept in the first place.

The thing with political correctness is that it doesn't expect the white Texan male to think there's a problem. And that itself is the problem.
Well that cutes that you elude to that, but what exactly is causing societies modern problems? I think it runs a little deeper than political incorrect phrasing and surface "intolerance".
I mean, in my honest opinion, this is just again another cycling debate towards the true modern problem with society is most class based rather than being embedded in sexism or racism, or whatever type of -ism you want to use to justify this.

[hismajestythepope]

no dude its a compltely valid claim if people thin k people who say genderist instead of sexist are stupid its because they biggots

im ean im not tg or anything, i wouldnt know what is or isnt actually offensive in this

[Smokey D]

so can i, but the point still stands that when things like this happen, people should take action rather than just letting it slide, because it just gives the retards even more of a sense of empowerment

Not really. When things are truly as absurd as this case they are generally ignored and revert to normal pretty quick.



and that bolded part seriously is an absurd accusation, theres no skirting it

Not absurd. Hyperbolic perhaps but the tiny number of truly outrageous cases of political correctness compared to the vast amount of talk back radio and redneck letters to the editor it generates weighs in my favour.

But most of these problems are blown way out of proportion, and in my opinion, the American society has reached the point where it no longer needs authoritative legislature such as political correctness to further the social advancement of "tolerance".

They are blown far less out of proportion than the whole concept of political correctness.

And it's very rare there is authorative legislation that imposes a form of political correctness. it's normally a choice on the group or body corporate in question.


And doesnt political correctness come off as very frightening in a sense. I mean, the government simplfying your language and definition of subject to be less "offense", as if being "offense" isnt a subjective concept in the first place.

It's not simplifying your language. It's rarely the government. And there is little or no penalty involved.

Well that cutes that you elude to that, but what exactly is causing societies modern problems? I think it runs a little deeper than political incorrect phrasing and surface "intolerance".

I'm not going to try and list every thing that's wrong with modern culture but we don't need an exhaustive list. One of the things that political correctness (although I should point out I don't like the phrase since it's so overloaded with negative meaning) is the role of hegemonic (I also dislike that word but it'll have to do) attitudes and beliefs of the dominant social force. It doesn't correct any problems in itself, but if done right it draws attention to some issues in a way which can lead to positive change.


I mean, in my honest opinion, this is just again another cycling debate towards the true modern problem with society is most class based rather than being embedded in sexism or racism, or whatever type of -ism you want to use to justify this.

It's not like they're mutually exclusive.

[McP3000]

Not absurd. Hyperbolic perhaps but the tiny number of truly outrageous cases of political correctness compared to the vast amount of talk back radio and redneck letters to the editor it generates weighs in my favour.
thats a rather politically incorrect statement in itself, is it not, ironically?

[hismajestythepope]

Not absurd.

no 100% absurd, im sorry.

[Smokey D]

thats a rather politically incorrect statement in itself, is it not, ironically?

Because I laugh at rednecks? It's a reasonably accurate description of who I'm describing.

[hismajestythepope]

its a derogatory term as well, thus its politically incorrect

see how tedious this bullshit is?

[Smokey D]

Okay but you're just proving my point.

Political correctness is about a lot more than not being insulting. It's about drawing attention to perceived injustices or inequalities. Whether it's tedious really is pretty irrelevant.

[hismajestythepope]

no its very relevent, political correctness is a non-issue, people are just touchy douchebags.

[Smokey D]

The irony of you saying that in light of your comments in this thread is awesome.

[hismajestythepope]

i know right :lol:

[Pastorius]

i would completely go into the women's toilets because it didn't define whether i was allowed in there or not

[Mister_Che]

A friend of mine told me political correctness is killing this country.

Then again he's conservative so whatev.

[:amaze:]

i would completely go into the women's toilets because it didn't define whether i was allowed in there or not

exactly




:amaze:

[Pastorius]

seriously though you could so do that

it just said toilets i thought it was the mens i didn't realise

[hismajestythepope]

sorry i had to jack off wtf lady chill

[mph4ever]

people are prepared to be politically incorrect when they feel they are in the majority. where it becomes an issue is where the targets of political incorrectness are a minority, like transexuals or muslims in a catholic country or rednecks in university.

perhaps instead of always complicating things by accommodating the few then maybe the few should be prepared to accommodate the many.

[Jude]

Apparently "sexism" is sexist so now we have to say "genderist" instead?

[McP3000]

i know its pretty much absurd fear mongering more than "tolerance"

there is nothing more petty than the fear of words

[Iscariot]

pc is such a waste of time

the world would be a much better place if everyone just spoke/acted with total disregard for everyone around them

[McP3000]

you know i like your opinions better when you're being sarcastic

[Iscariot]

well tbh pc is a waste of time

it's a never ending spiral into tight-lipped oppression

someone is always going to be offended by something and if they raise enough of a stink over it then we have to replace whatever is offending them with a pc counterpart

everyone just needs to grow some thicker skin

[McP3000]

Well i completely agree with that

[hismajestythepope]

well tbh pc is a waste of time

it's a never ending spiral into tight-lipped oppression

someone is always going to be offended by something and if they raise enough of a stink over it then we have to replace whatever is offending them with a pc counterpart

everyone just needs to grow some thicker skin

heil dass
Apparently "sexism" is sexist so now we have to say "genderist" instead?
well its cause a lot of tg kiddies are whiny douches who need attention and genderist covers discrimination against tgirls and biological girls alike same on the other side of the spectrum

honestly ****ing idiocy

[Smokey D]

Apparently "sexism" is sexist so now we have to say "genderist" instead?

I think that's stupid but not because of genderist.

More because you can be both genderist and sexist.

[Jude]

Whatever.

PC is an actual pain in the *** too, for real organizations. For example, back when the term "mental retardation" was perfectly acceptable, all kinds of service boards had that in their name. Now that kids have grown up using "retard" as a stock slur on the playground, it's offensive, so they have to change all their organization names to "Intellectually disabled." LOTS of paperwork, pain in the ***, bureaucratic crap, on and on. And in 20 years it's going to happen again once a new generation of kids start using the currently accepted term as a slur again.

[hismajestythepope]

no jude youre just some redneck who cant accept change

[Smokey D]

Actually the cost of changing some letterhead is easily justified by the benefits of removing retard from professional lexicons.

[hismajestythepope]

well no because mental retardation is a medical term and isnt actually offensive unless youre looking to be offended

if you say otherwise, youre trying too hard to seem like an intelligent liberal

[Smokey D]

Mental retardation used in medical literature might be acceptable.

When retard or retardation used in things like support groups causes, justfiably or not, alienation and resentment among the very people who they're trying to help, which is even more ludicrous than political correctness.

[hismajestythepope]

no actually using the term mental retardation in support groups is not more ludicrous than political correctness

people who go to these support groups getting offended by the term mental retardation however are pretty big morons

and here ill type out the response that youve posted like 20 times in a row now for you:
no no you see im extremely intelligent and i say that pc isnt as bad as rednecks and people who are against pointless beuracracy because people might get offended

[Smokey D]

no actually using the term mental retardation in support groups is not more ludicrous than political correctness

No, but offending and alienating the people you aim to support is.


people who go to these support groups getting offended by the term mental retardation however are pretty big morons


They're not moronic for being offended by a word which has ubiquitous offensive meaning.


no no you see im extremely intelligent and i say that pc isnt as bad as rednecks and people who are against pointless beuracracy because people might get offended

I dunno about extremely intelligent but PC is no where near as bad as rednecks and people who are against pointless bureacracy say. The response to PC is almost always disproportionate to its negative effects.

It's not about people who might be offended. It's about people who are offended.

[hismajestythepope]

actually its about people pretending to be offended because it gives them attention
No, but offending and alienating the people you aim to support is.
none of the groups aim to alienate or offend, morons aim to be alienated and offended
They're not moronic for being offended by a word which has ubiquitous offensive meaning..
considering the actual meaning of mental retardation isnt offensive in the slightest id say shut up that argument sucked

as for "retard" yes thats an insult, but im talking about "mental retardation"

i predict you will make that post again after this one, because you did it again as i predicted last time

every time ive argued a point with you youve basically just said the same things repeatedly but worded slightly differently

[Mr. Ron]

its stupid to change a name so a member of the campus woman's league feels good about herself at night, but its not a huge deal.

[GUTS]

political correctness has a time and place. Taking a ****, is neither political, correct, or incorrect.

that having been said, political correctness is simply a nice way of saying "its ok to dumb down what you really think and even lie to people about your beliefs because your not going to make anyone cry." it's tomfoolery.

[AyatollahKhomeini]

um
that's not really what political correctness is about

it's more about trying
to be accurate
and inclusive
i don't see how it's lying at all

PC is no where near as bad as rednecks and people who are against pointless bureacracy say. The response to PC is almost always disproportionate to its negative effects.

probably the best point brought up
thusfar

[Shadius]

actually its about people pretending to be offended because it gives them attention

none of the groups aim to alienate or offend, morons aim to be alienated and offended

considering the actual meaning of mental retardation isnt offensive in the slightest id say shut up that argument sucked

as for "retard" yes thats an insult, but im talking about "mental retardation"

i predict you will make that post again after this one, because you did it again as i predicted last time

every time ive argued a point with you youve basically just said the same things repeatedly but worded slightly differently

um, what support groups call people with mental health issues people with "mental retardation". i work in a psychiatric hospital and i have not come accross this being used, and i am certain that i would be fired if i used this terminology while talking to a patient. and for good reason, it's offensive to people who are institutionalised.

[GUTS]

Black people are african american. white people are white. why does the media give one group the comfort of "political correctness" and the other side not?

a black person is black. a white person is white. a mexican is a mexican and a toilet is a toilet. it's not that i think political correctness is detrimental to people, its up to the individual whether to use it or not, but i feel that people are wasting their time dwelling on what words are being used instead of the intent behind those words.

someone being politically correct just makes me think that they are trying to jerk me off, like they arent being honest. it's more ambiguous. an african american could be white. a european american could be black or pakistani.

again, theres nothing wrong with it, i personally just figure it as someone who is dumbing themselves down to seem like they're sensitive or like they actually care. if you really cared about how people were protrayed you'd forget about words and start taking action.

[Serenity]

Black people are african american. white people are white. why does the media give one group the comfort of "political correctness" and the other side not?

a black person is black. a white person is white. a mexican is a mexican and a toilet is a toilet. it's not that i think political correctness is detrimental to people, its up to the individual whether to use it or not, but i feel that people are wasting their time dwelling on what words are being used instead of the intent behind those words.

someone being politically correct just makes me think that they are trying to jerk me off, like they arent being honest. it's more ambiguous. an african american could be white. a european american could be black or pakistani.

again, theres nothing wrong with it, i personally just figure it as someone who is dumbing themselves down to seem like they're sensitive or like they actually care. if you really cared about how people were protrayed you'd forget about words and start taking action.


I really agree with most of this, to be honest.

[GreyHam]

Black people are african american.

i was talking to our lass about this the other day

surely there are a lot of black folk in the US who are Caribbean? and so, are not african-american at all

or, if your born in the US, shouldnt you just be american? im not anglo-german, my girlfriend isn't anglo-turk, we're just British

[Shadius]

I imagine it's to do with the different culture in the US compared to the UK. There was much more historical emphasis on racial hatred between blacks and whites in the US, or at very least, this hatred has continued more to this day between various subcultures.

Saying someone is a black guy in informal conversation isn't particulary frowned upon in the UK between friends, especially if it's not derogatory. It might make some people a little unsure whether they're supposed to say it due to political correctness but actually saying it with no bad intent is fine in most (non-racist) circles.

In the workplace or whatever, theres really no reason to mention skin colour at all. People have positions within an organisation, etc. with which to identify themselves.

In the US, saying "you're black" has a lot more negative conotations due to the circumstances with which it has traditionally been used. Words become emotionally charged for various social reasons, and upstanding members of society should be aware of this as to not offend.

I guess the reason the media has this spin on skin colour and political correctness is because I have no bad feeling, personally, or historically towards being classified as a white person. I am a skinny white guy, and I recognise, accept and am comfortable with this fact, and I would not be offended if someone points this out to me as I am proud of who I am and where I come from. Black people have had different upbringings and experiences in society and may feel like too much emphasis is placed upon their skin colour and be offended about it being their distinguishing feature or point of emphasis. This is surely reasonable given what has happened in the past, and how black people are specifically treated due to being black. If people are offended by such language, how is it a good idea to use it in front of them?

[808]

I'm not African.

[GUTS]

This is surely reasonable given what has happened in the past, and how black people are specifically treated due to being black. If people are offended by such language, how is it a good idea to use it in front of them?

oh ok. In that case, im offended by people saying that i have redish hair. in my past i've almost always be characterized by my red hair. now i want the term red hair to be changed to something that i am secure with. i like super spagetti color hair. ahhh political correctness at its best. now im happy, and everyone who calls me hair red instead of spagetti color im going to sue the pants off of. i'll cry in court, fake a nervous break down, and before you know it the entire country will not say re hair anymore but spagetti color. its ****ing rediculous.

hey i have an idea: lets take a perfectly good descriptive word and exchange it for one that is more ambiguous and less precise. thats a good idea.

Political correctness^

[808]

No, that's a horrible analogy.

[GUTS]

why? black skin is not analogus to red hair?

color - body part = color - body part


I WAS EMOTIONALLY SCARED WHEN PEOPLE MADE FUN OF MY RED HAIR. and i like spagetti. it's much more fitting. are gonna tell me no? then why should we call a black man an african american?

[Shadius]

Have you and your red-headed anchestors been pursecuted and treated like animals or inferior citizens for hundreds of years, and was the term "red head" a term used in distain for how inferior you are?

If yes, then you're right. To call someone a "red head" would bring up a lot of political and cultural hardships, and indicate vailed attitudes of redheadism.

As it stands, some people with red hair get bullied, some don't, but ginger haired people as a whole have never been singled out and classed as a social group in themselves, and segregated as such. Red headed people are not statistically poorer, or live in red headed ghettos. Parents with other hair colours can give birth to a red headed child, and I have yet to hear of a white couple give birth to a black child or vice versa (possible rare mutation? but it's not significant in the context i'm talking about).

Yes, hair colour and skin colour are rationally comparable, therefore you've succeeded in showing how ridiculous racism is (But it does exist in the real world and has had far reaching cultural impacts), but not political correctness.

[Jaymz Hetfield]

Yeah, being a firecrotch is pretty sweet. Other than the whole having to use SPF 900 so that you don't burn thing.

[Serenity]

i was talking to our lass about this the other day

surely there are a lot of black folk in the US who are Caribbean? and so, are not african-american at all

or, if your born in the US, shouldnt you just be american? im not anglo-german, my girlfriend isn't anglo-turk, we're just British

This supports the argument that black people are black, white people re white, etc....it's ridiculous to go further than that.

My father and grandmother were born and raised in Ireland, my grandfather in Scotland. I grew up in America. Does that make me Scotch-Irish American? No. Considering my very Scottish upbringing, I simply consider myself Scottish, but I could just as easily be called American I suppose. Why make things complicated.

[mph4ever]

we are what we are,

i'm 1/4 french, 1/4 irish, 1/4 british and a 1/4 mx

mongrel comes to mind

[Jude]

Actually the cost of changing some letterhead is easily justified by the benefits of removing retard from professional lexicons.

No it's not

First because its way more than changing letterhead, I'm referring to an actual occurrence where a "Board of something something and Mental Retardation" had to do this just recently, and it's a logistic nightmare

Second because it's just going to happen again in 20 years

Third because mental retardation was a totally harmless term up until people happened to begin using it on the playground as a mean name to call other kids and people need to grow up and realize that when it's used by medical professionals it's not meant to be offensive and that if you're offended by words just because of themselves, you're being, let me use it colloquially here, retarded

[Smokey D]

actually its about people pretending to be offended because it gives them attention

Yes that's all it's about. How did I fail to see that.

none of the groups aim to alienate or offend, morons aim to be alienated and offended

Possibly. But are you going to deny that retard is an insult and that the vast majority of people would feel insulted if they were called retards even if it is valid in medical literature.

considering the actual meaning of mental retardation isnt offensive in the slightest id say shut up that argument sucked

as for "retard" yes thats an insult, but im talking about "mental retardation"


The point of support groups isn't to educate the people it supports on the finery of semantics and medical definitions. It's to provide support. Insulting people generally isn't very supportive, even if its done with no malice. I agree that at its core retardation is a technical term with no offensive intent or meaning. But I can't agree that the majority of people who are offended by being called retarded are looking for a complaint. It is a natural extension of the use of retard as an insult. Given that if not the majority than a substantial minority will be offended/alienated/become resentful at the use of that word in certain contexts, which undermines the purpose of support groups etc, and the cost of fixing that problem is changing the company letterhead and maybe the style guide every 20 years, you haven't really convinced me that this is a major problem.


i predict you will make that post again after this one, because you did it again as i predicted last time

every time ive argued a point with you youve basically just said the same things repeatedly but worded slightly differently

Well I guess you've got my number.

Black people are african american

Gotta say I never hear the phrase African American, except when black people are explaining to white people that they prefer to be called black. African American though has specific meaning that goes beyond simply black.


hey i have an idea: lets take a perfectly good descriptive word and exchange it for one that is more ambiguous and less precise. thats a good idea.

No African American is more precise.

You can be black without being African American.


First because its way more than changing letterhead, I'm referring to an actual occurrence where a "Board of something something and Mental Retardation" had to do this just recently, and it's a logistic nightmare

The transition would take at most 6 months, and pretty much involve an email saying 'please be advised the company/group that used to known as the board of retardation is now known as X.'


Third because mental retardation was a totally harmless term up until people happened to begin using it on the playground as a mean name to call other kids and people need to grow up and realize that when it's used by medical professionals it's not meant to be offensive and that if you're offended by words just because of themselves, you're being, let me use it colloquially here, retarded

Yeah lots of words used to be harmless until they came to be used in a near exclusively insulting context. I agree that retardation is not necessarily and was not meant to be insulting, but I disagree that it cannot acquire an offensive meaning. The people who are affected by this sort of thing aren't medical professionals. They cannot be expected to keenly appreciate the distinction between the medical context and the insulting one. They clearly blur into one another the further into lay territory you go.

and that if you're offended by words just because of themselves, you're being, let me use it colloquially here, retarded

Well yes I thought that was the point.

[Jude]

So do you want to change the medical terminology every 20 years when the currently accepted term becomes offensive

[808]

You can be African American and not be black.

[Smokey D]

So do you want to change the medical terminology every 20 years when the currently accepted term becomes offensive

Using terms of art which are offensive in lay circles might be acceptable in strictly medical (or other professional) contexts but if you're dealing with non-professionals then yes it might be warranted.

[Iscariot]

In the US, saying "you're black" has a lot more negative conotations due to the circumstances with which it has traditionally been used.

stop making these big lengthy posts where you pretend to know about something when you actually don't

"black" is the pc term in the us you idiot

it's considered culturally intolerant to lump all dark skinned people into the term african-american when many of them didn't originate in africa

calling them black leaves the table clear for them to clarify further without already being regionally labeled

[Smokey D]

You can be African American and not be black.

Well you can be a white American with roots in Africa but it's not the same thing.

[Serenity]

it's considered culturally intolerant to lump all dark skinned people into the term african-american when many of them didn't originate in africa

calling them black leaves the table clear for them to clarify further without already being regionally labeled

Meh, I dunno. I've lived many places here where they stilll get insulted at the term "black". Further proving the point you can't please everyone.

[Smokey D]

Where possible you should make inquiries into what people prefer to be called, but it's unreasonable of people to be greatly offended by an obviously innocent remark made in isolation.

[808]

Well you can be a white American with roots in Africa but it's not the same thing.

It's not?

[Mr. Ron]

in my education class we were discussing the achievement gap among African Americans and whites, and this white chick said "black people" and this black kid got all uppity over her using the term. He said she was being ignorant for calling him black.

[Smokey D]

That's pretty stupid since there is apparently no consensus on what black people prefer to be called.

[Mr. Ron]

Yeah, he almost walked out because everyone was asking him what the big deal was.

[Jude]

Using terms of art which are offensive in lay circles might be acceptable in strictly medical (or other professional) contexts but if you're dealing with non-professionals then yes it might be warranted.

It would be way better if people would just not get their panties in a wad over terminology

[Sleep]

wtf why did so many people get mad over this decision

# 1 if you're gunna make fun of political correct people for being afraid to call something what it is, why would you be pissed off about calling a room with toilets 'toilets' and a room with toilets and urinals 'toilets with urinals.' what is possibly the matter with that. that's like the definition of calling something exactly what it is. please somebody explain this to me.

#2 in bs 'issues' like this, im gonna have to say that anybody who thinks that labeling a bath room for the use of males or females is sexist is ****ing moron with no respect for either gender distinction or for the english language itself

you're a moron, they don't think it's sexist they think its genderist. they did this for the benefit of transgendered people. did you even watch the video? if i look like a lady but i have a wang obviously it's gunna be awkward for me to choose a bathroom when my only two options are the 'men' one and the 'women' one and i don't totally fit into either category. if you acknowledge that transgendered people exist this is a perfectly logical thing to do and has nothing to do with political correctness.

[Smokey D]

It would be way better if people would just not get their panties in a wad over terminology

You have to deal with the fact that people do get offended, even if you think it's unwarranted.

Also, weren't you the one who went on the big spiel about how language changes according to context and time.

[Jude]

You have to deal with the fact that people do get offended, even if you think it's unwarranted.

Also, weren't you the one who went on the big spiel about how language changes according to context and time.

Probably

I generally adamantly argue a position on the intrnet regardless of what my actual views would be if I were to spend a lot of time thinking it out

[Sunshine]

in my education class we were discussing the achievement gap among African Americans and whites, and this white chick said "black people" and this black kid got all uppity over her using the term. He said she was being ignorant for calling him black.

My exboyfriend's friend is Indian [well his parents are, he was born in the states far as I know], and in 4th grade got in trouble for calling a black girl "black girl." And he was talked to by the principal, and his dad was called in to yell at him.

[mph4ever]

theres lots of countries in europe where toilets are unisex, you know, whats good for the goose is good for the gander. i know in my pub that when it gets real busy then the ladies start to use the cubicles in the gents. all it does is cause p!ss phobia for a few of the lads hehehehehehe

perhaps transgender people should use the disabled toilets. i'm not discrimminating, i don't do that, but it does give them the privacy they desire and at the same time put a resource thats already available to further good use.

or maybe toilets should be just urinals in one and just cubicles in the other. meet the requirememts based on physique and type of use

[Shell]

Maybe we should have a form...

Which do you prefer:
a. white
b. cracker
c. honky
d. caucasian
e. black
f. african american
g. negro
h. ******
i. hispanic
j. latino
k. mexican
l. beaner
m. spic
etc


Restrooms can be labelled
Men.......Women..........Other


Seriously though I've often wondered what is the point anymore of separating men and women bathrooms, locker rooms, and such. Sure, if men were in the same locker room as women, maybe the guys might look at the girls. But maybe if there's a lesbian in the female-only locker room, she might be checking out the other girls as well. If you're that worried about it, change clothes in the bathroom/shower stall.

[Sunshine]

theres lots of countries in europe where toilets are unisex, you know, whats good for the goose is good for the gander. i know in my pub that when it gets real busy then the ladies start to use the cubicles in the gents. all it does is cause p!ss phobia for a few of the lads hehehehehehe

Haha we were up at Himeji castle the other weekend and there was only one bathroom there. 2 stalls and 2 urinals, and 1 guy takin' a piss. I still went in, I mean, it was a little weird for me, but that's just 'cause it's something I'm not used to, not 'cause there's actually anything WRONG with it.

And in Italy we used the guy's bathroom 'cause the line for the girls was just way too long.


or maybe toilets should be just urinals in one and just cubicles in the other. meet the requirememts based on physique and type of use

This...is a really good idea, actually.

[ThePalaceOfWisdom]

I find the term "Latino" hilarious. From what I understand it's used to refer to people from the Domenican Republic, Mexico and Coloumbia. Yet people from the countries where Latin originated Italy, Spain, etc, aren't. Isn't that a bit weird?

[Shadius]

So do you want to change the medical terminology every 20 years when the currently accepted term becomes offensive

This has to happen until people grow up, I guess. Terms like moron and cretin were coined by psychologists, and warped by popular culture useage. Now when someone calls someone a retard, they're not specifically laughing at disabled people, its more just a word to describe dislike at someone and possibly their intelligence.

The word is used for a different meaning, and therefore is no longer appropriate within a medical context, especially one that aims to help people who are very vulnerable rather than alienate them and distress them, and give them a bad image in the public eye.

Just like the term gay isn't used to mean happyness anymore; language changes. It's not contstant, it's arbitrary, and it's up to professional people to be aware of these social and cultural issues associated with it.

Gay people are physically and mentally able to stand up for themselves these days and rather than change the terminology they can be proud to be gay. Some would even be comfortable with fag or puff, and take it tongue in cheek, although I imagine the majority would still find these words offensive due to the context they are used in. The difference between gay people, or black people and those in mental care is that people with mental issues are in a much more compromised position to stand up for themselves.

The fact that people are arguing about these terms even further highlights peoples general misconception with mental illness.

stop making these big lengthy posts where you pretend to know about something when you actually don't

"black" is the pc term in the us you idiot

lol, so I should stop bringing healthy and interesting discussion to the table? ur funny. I only know my own experiences and I live in the UK. People sometimes seem to feel uncomfortable using the term "black" in the UK under certain circumstances. I think it's a lot less about the actual words used and more about the circumstances they're used in. It's hard for everyone to keep up with what everyone else find comfortable or the newest terminology. This is why people think political correctness gone mad.

I don't see anything offensive about saying black or african american, if they're appropriate words to use in the circumstances. This all has a lot to do with national identity. Scottish american? British american? Relevant terms in many circumstances. Although people often chose one nationality as their main one, and happen to have the other as secondry. You can be indian but be british, and have nothing in common with indian culture and not relate to it, etc. I consider myself British, but understand that dosn't mean white british. Older generations may condider british to mean white british and consider people from indian familes not to be british but rather indian, despite this not being the case a lot of the time.

Ultimately, someone using slightly outdated terminology shouldn't be, and isn't a massive offense, it depends how it's used and how it alienates or offends people. Terminology for people in a mental institution changes every two years or so, but if you use slightly different terminology you arn't going to be sacked or anything. Words like clients or patients aren't used in offical d0cumentation but they arn't offensive, currently where I'm working they're called "service users" but it's not particulary important if you don't call them that in day to day conversation. If you called them retards, morons or cretins, despite possibly originally being "medically appropriate words" you would be fired because they are offensive, and really people should be aware that these words are found to be offensive even if they don't mean them as such.

[Jude]

Look at how black people have co-opted the word "******"

in another generation, it will have lost all its power to hurt anybody, because everyone who remembers it being a hurtful word will be dead

Anybody can do this, they can take the word and make it ridiculous to the point that it's not harmful anymore

That's a lot more constructive way to deal with these things than making a huge shitstorm over a word that was never meant to be harmful in the first place

[Shadius]

I agree. I think it's positive that gay people are proud to be gay, and I think it's positive that black people are proud to be black, but I think people should have much more varied and less exclusive groups for which they also relate to and empathise with. I'm not sure about the term "******" because I've grown up with the word being offensive, but as soon as no one remembers this it could be used by everyone.

I think in a way some aspects of black culture has made it hard for itself by having words like this being ambiguous. How only some black people can or will call other black people ******s and will get offended if others use the terms is asking for trouble. Some black people are offended by the term in general, etc.

It is rather strange though, I was in Amsterdam the other month, and on a Church on a big banner was a poster and artwork and the words "BLACK IS BEAUTIFUL", and I although I don't find this offensive in any way, I couldn't help but think that "WHITE IS BEAUTIFUL" on a church would remind me far too much of white supremacy, lol.

I think the truth is that what groups people identify with cause these problems and that "us and them" attitude. I don't particulary identify with the term "white", although I'm comfortably aware that I am white. I identify with other terms much more strongly; British, (ex) Student, Psychology, Musician, Young Person/Adult etc.

[mph4ever]

Look at how black people have co-opted the word "******"

in another generation, it will have lost all its power to hurt anybody, because everyone who remembers it being a hurtful word will be dead

Anybody can do this, they can take the word and make it ridiculous to the point that it's not harmful anymore

That's a lot more constructive way to deal with these things than making a huge poopstorm over a word that was never meant to be harmful in the first place


not so long ago we used to buy ****** brown boot and shoe polish. never even thought the word was remotely hurtful. the australians even had the united nations tell them to stop using it as recently as 2002. of course they ignored them.

http://blacklegacyimages.com/_wsn/page3.html

a few years ago they used to have a gollywog toy and they used to use it to advertise marmalade and breakfast jelly. now they have stopped selling the toys and also stop making the labels and ads with the golloywog on it.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2/misslarue/13774716_m.jpg

[Jude]

not so long ago we used to buy ****** brown boot and shoe polish. never even thought the word was remotely hurtful. the australians even had the united nations tell them to stop using it as recently as 2002. of course they ignored them.

http://blacklegacyimages.com/_wsn/page3.html

a few years ago they used to have a gollywog toy and they used to use it to advertise marmalade and breakfast jelly. now they have stopped selling the toys and also stop making the labels and ads with the golloywog on it.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2/misslarue/13774716_m.jpg


OK, Australians AFAIK are an entire nation of massively, horrifyingly racist rednecks no none of this stuff applies here

this is purely based on posts on the internet btw every other post it seems like they're bitching about those ****ing abbos or whatever

[Smokey D]

Look at how black people have co-opted the word "******"

in another generation, it will have lost all its power to hurt anybody, because everyone who remembers it being a hurtful word will be dead

Anybody can do this, they can take the word and make it ridiculous to the point that it's not harmful anymore

That's a lot more constructive way to deal with these things than making a huge poopstorm over a word that was never meant to be harmful in the first place

I think you greatly overstate the extent that word has been reclaimed or co-opted.

gollywog

It's pretty much like blackface but in doll form.

[Jude]

I think you greatly overstate the extent that word has been reclaimed or co-opted.




Idk

I'm from the city and it's not that big of a problem really nobody gets offended by it

[Smokey D]

It's meaning is entirely dependent on context. If you say it in a hostile context in a deliberate intent to insult, I think most people would still find it pretty appalling.

[GreyHam]

somethng that amused me form our students union black committee:

'Maybe you don’t think of yourself as ‘Black’ but if you are Chinese, Asian, Pakistani, African, Caribbean, Afro-Caribbean, Japanese, Cypriot, Indian, Greek, Brazilian or from anywhere else and you don’t identify as ‘white’ then you can be part of our black students movement'

so yea...no crackers allowed apparantly :p

[McP3000]

not only is that stupid and racist

its extremely stupid and racist

[Iscariot]

don't forget to mention how stupid and racist it is

[hismajestythepope]

not to mention how lol it is

[mph4ever]

not only is that stupid and racist

its extremely stupid and racist


no, no, no, didn't you hear, you can only be racist if you are white

[Smokey D]

Wait. If you're white but don't identify with the social/political/economic identity of white, can you apply?

It seems pretty stupid that Brazillians and Greeks can apply but British people can't.

But also, "if you consider yourself Chinese or Asian"? lol.

[horseypie]

i think the political correctness thing went way overboard when they changed the fat controllers name in thomas the tank engine to mr. topham hatt because the fat controller was derogatory

and when they took noddy off tv because calling his best friend big ears was mean

[mph4ever]

i think the political correctness thing went way overboard when they changed the fat controllers name in thomas the tank engine to mr. topham hatt because the fat controller was derogatory

and when they took noddy off tv because calling his best friend big ears was mean

they have a lot to answer for, these lefty roll up smokin' ale drinkin' liberal hippies

them and the labour party

and i thought noddy was axed because it was revealed that he was in a gay relationship with big ears

and i suppose they got rid of lambchop because of the suggestion of anal fisting

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e81/digitald50/lamb_chop_hand_puppet.jpg

[Pastorius]

turns out it was more than his ears that was big

[Shadius]

i think the political correctness thing went way overboard when they changed the fat controllers name in thomas the tank engine to mr. topham hatt because the fat controller was derogatory

and when they took noddy off tv because calling his best friend big ears was mean

hehehe

to be honest, It's just childrens TV characters, so why does it bother you so much? It's not like anything will happen to you if you use the old names, no young kids are going to give you dirty looks.

I suppose it's along the same lines as if he was called the black controller, or the gay controller. I think in Thomas it wasn't meant derogatory at all, I don't remember laughing at the fat controller at all, but kids these days have different conceptions of things, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of kids in the playground or classroom get called the fat controller for being fat.

I know a lot of kids and even adults say "cheers big ears" in the UK. :D

I think it's all about taking away kids fodder against other body types, not that those characters were portrayed in negative ways. It might not be the best way to deal with the problem, but if it saves a handful of kids from being extensively bullied and having extremely bad body issues then surely it would be worth it for the sake of a kids TV show characters name.

[ThePalaceOfWisdom]

and when they took noddy off tv because calling his best friend big ears was mean

Actually I thought the Christians took Noddy off the air because he and Big Ears shared the same bed.

[McP3000]

i think the political correctness thing went way overboard when they changed the fat controllers name in thomas the tank engine to mr. topham hatt because the fat controller was derogatory

and when they took noddy off tv because calling his best friend big ears was mean
lol why the hell do you know this

but regardless of why, thats some pretty bomb knowledge droppin

[horseypie]

Actually I thought the Christians took Noddy off the air because he and Big Ears shared the same bed.

haha...i had heard that but i didnt wanna say it in case it was a crock of **** lol

at least now i know its true

and i know the thomas the tank stuff because my little cousins are heaps into it and when they were calling him mr. topham hat i was so confused until my aunty explained it to me

i was shocked