Finally got my first drum kit (+ questions)

[wicker_man]

Just got my first drum kit, it's a Dixon Tempo from a guy on my street. It had been sitting in his loft for a couple of years, but there's hardly any marks on the skins and the shells seem in great condition. There are some bits of rust on some of the hardware and on the snare, and the cymbals (if you can call them cymbals!) will need replacing ASAP, but for £85 (originally asking for £100), I'd say it's not a bad deal!

Anyway, I have a few questions:

1. I'm not sure if it's set up properly; positioning, tuning etc. I've tried reading online and looking at people's kit setups, and think it's roughly there. Any advice?

2. The bass drum doesn't seem to give a nice thud, it seems kind of boomy/ringy. It currently has one pillow in. Should I put another larger pillow in or put a port in the front?

3. Any suggestions for removing the rust? I've read many conflicting opinions on whether to use WD40, Brasso and many other products.

4. Are silence pads/mutes any good? How much do they actually reduce the sound, and can anybody recommend some?

Here's a few pics of the kit (currently set up in the garage at home, but I will be going back to university in 2 weeks and hoping it will fit in my room).

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a38/wicker_man666/drumkit_01.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a38/wicker_man666/drumkit_02.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a38/wicker_man666/drumkit_03.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a38/wicker_man666/drumkit_04.jpg

22x16" bass, 12"x10", 13"x11", 16"x16" toms, 14" x 5.5" steel snare, some unbranded rubbish hi-hats and crash, Premier dampening rings (?) and a stool, plus some unknown sticks.

I plan to buy some sticks (5A and 5B to test), and some kind of silence pads/mutes ASAP. I then want to get some cheap but decent beginner hats and a ride (maybe some Sabian B8/XS20 from eBay) and a boom stand, a cowbell and then a crash and double bass pedal at a later date.

Any comments/suggestions appreciated.

[Cheungman]

take off the rings and get new heads.

[AfroMan]

1. I'm not sure if it's set up properly; positioning, tuning etc. I've tried reading online and looking at people's kit setups, and think it's roughly there. Any advice?

2. The bass drum doesn't seem to give a nice thud, it seems kind of boomy/ringy. It currently has one pillow in. Should I put another larger pillow in or put a port in the front?


Congratulations on the kit man. Im new to the drums as well so my advice is pretty shitty but the positioning of the toms seem decent. Try putting a sleeping bag in your bass drum, I have one in mine and I get a suprisingly clicky thud considering its a CB kit.

[ant_182]

^^ This [Edit to the post above the one above mine]

Type tuning bible in google and click the first link to a great help on tuning. Any more problems ask here. Nice to see another drummer here. I recomend getting a practice pad and, if not yet, an experienced drum teacher :) I have some Vic Firth mutes I can sell you, they basically take out the sound, like hitting a sofa maybe?

Instead of jumping in getting a cowbell double kicks etc, I suggest getting more important things, drum heads perfect sticks. drum lessons, metronome etc. Decent heads arent a must if you're not gigging or playing the kit. But definately start learning to tune! one pillow in the bass drum is plenty, if not too much! I have the same but for gigs I tend to remove it for increased volume (thats the ring you hear!)

Any more info just ask :)

Ant

[Panopticon]

Congratulations on the kit man. Im new to the drums as well so my advice is pretty shitty but the positioning of the toms seem decent. Try putting a sleeping bag in your bass drum, I have one in mine and I get a suprisingly clicky thud considering its a CB kit.

Please don't put a sleeping bag in the bass drum.

That will not cut at all. If you're looking for noise reduction, it's fine, but other than that...no.

I have a pair of pajama pants for recording and nothing for live playing.

[wicker_man]

Thanks for the replies so far. I'll have a read through the tuning bible and see how I go with that.

I will be living in a terraced house, therefore would drum mutes reduce the sound so people next door wouldn't be able to hear/disturb them? How about people in the same house?

I'm not sure whether it would be worth replacing the heads/skins yet, as the ones on there hardly have been used, and if I will be using some kind of practice pads most of the time then would it affect the sound that much? I've seen some Remo Pinstripe or Emperor tom skins + Ambassador snare sets under £40, and from what I have read, the Aquarian Super Kick II is good for the bass drum (also £40). Would it be advisable to replace all at once? What about the resonant heads?


From some previous posts here, it has been suggested to buy a double pedal, as I remember one guy saying: "If you play drums for a year, the pick up double bass, it'll be completely new and you'll have to start from the very beginning again, which is counter productive. If you get double pedals from the start, you'll be able to start playing double bass as well as learning everything else at the same time." But obviously, I would need to spend time working on the single bass technique would be beneficial too.


At university last year, I joined a music society and was being taught by a guy who has been playing drums for 10 years. He wasn't an official 'teacher', but I learnt some basics, and can play the whole of AC/DC's Back in Black and attempted the intro to Run To The Hills, by Iron Maiden and Paradise City by Guns N' Roses.


I plan on ordering some sticks and a metronome very soon, I'll be getting a pair of Vic Firth Nova 5A and 5B (to test out which size I prefer) but I'm not sure whether to go for nylon or wood tip. The reason I was going to add a cowbell is because it is only £6, so I thought I may as well buy it now (along with a boom stand for purchasing a ride cymbal soon) instead of paying for multiple postage. The retailer also has an offer on Gibraltar strap drive double pedal (3311DB) for £60, would it be worth getting that? (I noticed the chain of my current pedal has rust on, would that affect it and be worth replacing?)


Also, does anybody have any suggestions on how to deal with the rust? (I've fixed the last picture in my original post showing an example of rust).

Thanks again for the advice so far, looks like I have a lot to learn! This reply turned out pretty long!

[ant_182]

Thanks for the replies so far. I'll have a read through the tuning bible and see how I go with that.

I will be living in a terraced house, therefore would drum mutes reduce the sound so people next door wouldn't be able to hear/disturb them? How about people in the same house?

I'm not sure whether it would be worth replacing the heads/skins yet, as the ones on there hardly have been used, and if I will be using some kind of practice pads most of the time then would it affect the sound that much? I've seen some Remo Pinstripe or Emperor tom skins + Ambassador snare sets under £40, and from what I have read, the Aquarian Super Kick II is good for the bass drum (also £40). Would it be advisable to replace all at once? What about the resonant heads?


From some previous posts here, it has been suggested to buy a double pedal, as I remember one guy saying: "If you play drums for a year, the pick up double bass, it'll be completely new and you'll have to start from the very beginning again, which is counter productive. If you get double pedals from the start, you'll be able to start playing double bass as well as learning everything else at the same time." But obviously, I would need to spend time working on the single bass technique would be beneficial too.


At university last year, I joined a music society and was being taught by a guy who has been playing drums for 10 years. He wasn't an official 'teacher', but I learnt some basics, and can play the whole of AC/DC's Back in Black and attempted the intro to Run To The Hills, by Iron Maiden and Paradise City by Guns N' Roses.


I plan on ordering some sticks and a metronome very soon, I'll be getting a pair of Vic Firth Nova 5A and 5B (to test out which size I prefer) but I'm not sure whether to go for nylon or wood tip. The reason I was going to add a cowbell is because it is only £6, so I thought I may as well buy it now (along with a boom stand for purchasing a ride cymbal soon) instead of paying for multiple postage. The retailer also has an offer on Gibraltar strap drive double pedal (3311DB) for £60, would it be worth getting that? (I noticed the chain of my current pedal has rust on, would that affect it and be worth replacing?)


Also, does anybody have any suggestions on how to deal with the rust? (I've fixed the last picture in my original post showing an example of rust).

Thanks again for the advice so far, looks like I have a lot to learn! This reply turned out pretty long!

Its not important to replace the drum heads yet, but I'd get a new snare batter and reso and play with tuning that?

Also you have a hi-hat stand... so you dont need double kicks to get double kick stuff started. People often say something on here that really means alot if you ask me "Buying cheap means buying twice". So is it nessary that you get double kicks. You're better off getting brilliant at single kick, while training the left foot to do the same, then getting double kicks and haveing to "average" feel. After a few months of getting my first double kicks I noticed a hell of a difference with my right foot loosing what it had. I got lazy by doing single kick stuff on a double and now I struggle to keep up.

Not sure what else to say! Can't help on the rust front. I'm sure someone would help. Where are you buying from? I think that £6 can be spent better elsewhere. Also cowbells are LOUD! Drum mutes would be suitable imo for your needs

:)

[wicker_man]

How about mesh heads, would they be better for quiet practice?

Out of interest, how much would you be willing to sell your Vic Firth mutes for? What condition are they, and do you have any photos?

I'll hold off the double bass pedal for now, and maybe keep an eye for a half decent single pedal for now?

I've been reading through the tuning bible, and will attempt to tune my drums.

[oliv_da_skinmasher]

Yeah the mesh heads are pretty good, more realistic feeling than the mutes you place on top of the drums too.

[ant_182]

£10 + postage? I never used them tbh lol. I got them off ebay. I'll get some pics later.

[AfroMan]

Please don't put a sleeping bag in the bass drum.

That will not cut at all. If you're looking for noise reduction, it's fine, but other than that...no.

I have a pair of pajama pants for recording and nothing for live playing.


Meh, maybe it's a no no but it sounds good to me! For some reason there is more 'snap' to it which is the complete opposite of what I thought it would do...

[wicker_man]

I've also been looking for a reasonable beginner ride (and maybe a crash) cymbal on eBay, which would be better ones to go for (most rides I've seen in the range seem to be 20" and crashes 16");
Sabian B8, Pro Sonix, XS20
Paiste PST5, 502/502 plus, 505
Zildjian ZBT, Bronze Scimitar

Most seem to be around £50-60 each (used condition), are they reasonable prices? I also missed out on a Zildjian ZBT set of hats. 16" crash and 20" ride for £85, would something like this have been a good deal?

(I know that Planet Z, Solar and Paiste 101's are to be avoided!)

Thanks again for any advice.

£10 + postage? I never used them tbh lol. I got them off ebay. I'll get some pics later.

OK thanks, how much would postage be? If you want, I can PM you my email address to send the the photo to.

I'm going to try and compare mesh heads vs mute pads in a drum store this weekend and see which is better, and let you know.

[mustang-monk]

If i were you id get a decent ride second hand on ebay, then Upgrade the rest one by one. Rather than buying a low quality set of cymbals, you already have a crash and set of hats to be practicing on.

[Panopticon]

Meh, maybe it's a no no but it sounds good to me! For some reason there is more 'snap' to it which is the complete opposite of what I thought it would do...

in a case like that...all you're really hearing is the beater making contact with the head and nothing else.

[j10p31c]

i personally dont like my toms that far apart.

as for cymbals, even cheap hats will sound decent enough.
id say get a crash ride since you only have one cymbal stand. i prefer them though, but you may not.

my friend has a cheap b8 crash ride... it sounds pretty good as a crash, and good enough as a ride. also, as said before, second hand is a good way to go.

i would say check pawn shops, but the ones around where i am are selling a
yamaha stage custom tom for a little under $300... but ebay... thats always good... also you could try craigs list... see if anythings in your area.

[Pauly]

It looks like the wing-nut on your crash is overtightened. The cymbal should be able to move freely. If its movement is restricted, you risk cracking it. Some people prefer not having wing-nuts at all.

And a B8 or PST5 ride should suit you fine. Best of luck!

[ant_182]

PM Me your email. Not sure what that means but someone will explain! I'll get some pics after the weekend as I'm not here this weekend. Postage would probs £2-£5 Not sure

:)

[wicker_man]

OK, I'll focus on looking for a nice ride cymbal then. I'll loosen the wing nut on my crash, the felts are very thin though, much thinner than other 'set up' cymbal pictures I have seen. Would it be worth getting some new ones?

PM Me your email. Not sure what that means but someone will explain! I'll get some pics after the weekend as I'm not here this weekend. Postage would probs £2-£5 Not sure

:)

PM is private message, but it looks like this forum doesn't have PM though (strange, every other forum I visit does!)

Anyway, my email address is wickerman666 (at) gmail (dot) com.

[Retarded Chipple]

1. I'm not sure if it's set up properly; positioning, tuning etc. I've tried reading online and looking at people's kit setups, and think it's roughly there. Any advice?

Set-up's not too bad, just needs a couple of minor tweaks. Try to get the toms a little closer together if you can - I know it can be hard on a kit with those sizes. Maybe angle the toms just a tad more towards you as they look a tiny bit flat. Also move the hi hat stand forward so the pedal is more in line with your bass drum pedal (and the actual hi hats will be closer to the small rack tom.)

Throne height is important too. You wanna be sat so that when you have both feet on the pedals your legs are just a few degrees less than 90 to the floor. Make sure you sit up straight as well.

2. The bass drum doesn't seem to give a nice thud, it seems kind of boomy/ringy. It currently has one pillow in. Should I put another larger pillow in or put a port in the front?

I can't see how the bass drum can be too boomy if it has a whole pillow in it. It may be the toms and snare giving some sympathetic ring. Try turning the snares of and putting you hands on the toms and see how much the bass rings when you do that.

3. Any suggestions for removing the rust? I've read many conflicting opinions on whether to use WD40, Brasso and many other products.
I'm not sure.....I thought rust was irreversible. Either way stay away from WD40 and the likes.

4. Are silence pads/mutes any good? How much do they actually reduce the sound, and can anybody recommend some? How about mesh heads, would they be better for quiet practice?I will be living in a terraced house, therefore would drum mutes reduce the sound so people next door wouldn't be able to hear/disturb them? How about people in the same house?


Yes, silencer pads will considerably reduce the airborne sound your drums make but will not stop very loud thuds going through the floor and most likely through the neighbours walls. Best thing to do, if possible, is play them downstairs, with silencers.
Recommended silencers = old t-shirts draped over drums and cymbals. Or get some thick(ish) bits of foam and cut your own silencers.

Mesh heads would be even better - get them if you can't play your kit downstairs, or in an upstairs room that's not next to the neighbours house or if you just can't be arsed to make you own silencers.


From some previous posts here, it has been suggested to buy a double pedal, as I remember one guy saying: "If you play drums for a year, the pick up double bass, it'll be completely new and you'll have to start from the very beginning again, which is counter productive. If you get double pedals from the start, you'll be able to start playing double bass as well as learning everything else at the same time." But obviously, I would need to spend time working on the single bass technique would be beneficial too.

I kinda disagree with that quote tbh. How about if I said: "If you play rock drums for a year then decided to pick up a bit of Latin, it'll be completely new and you'll have to start with Latin from the beginning".....thats not counter productive, it's called learning a new technique when you're ready (granted, Latin isn't a technique, it's a genre...whatever!)

By the logic of that advice you got told, you should start working on EVERYTHING you're ever going to work on for the duration of your drumming career so that nothing is new to you because starting to learn something new is "counter-productive" :rolleyes:

[ant_182]

Anyway, my email address is wickerman666 (at) gmail (dot) com.
Let me know if you want drum mutes monday and I'll try to get some pics :)

[wicker_man]

OK, I've tried adjusting the toms and positing of hats/throne, although I'll be moving into my uni house next week and (hopefully if it fits) be having my kit in my bedroom. Haven't had time to try tuning properly yet.

Regarding a ride cymbal, I can get either a 20" Sabian B8 for £42, Zildjian Bronze Scimitar for £47 or a Sabian Pro Sonix for £49 (all used with some fading to logos, but no cracks/dents). Would any of these be worth going for?

I went to a drum shop, but they didn't have any mesh heads in stock, and showed me some silence pads but they were £45. I think I'll go for some kind of drum mutes and if I don't like them, I can always sell them on and try and get mesh heads. I definitely won't be able to play unsilenced in my uni house!

[wicker_man]

Let me know if you want drum mutes monday and I'll try to get some pics :)
OK, if you email me the pictures and let me know which pads are included, the sizes and condition, we can discuss from there.

[ant_182]

Hey dude I'll try to get the pics up tonight. I beleive its 12 13 14 and 16 pads. I THINK. 2 cymbal ones 22" bass drum and hi hat ones. I'll get them out the garage later

[wicker_man]

Ant_182, if you could let me know about the drum mutes soon, because I move into my uni house on Sunday and I don't know how long it will take for our internet connection to be activated, so may not be able to get online for a while.

[trysthedrummer]

Hello wickerman,

Out of cymbal selection you have been looking for I would opt for the Sabian Pro Sonix's. Good prices for the quality!

As for the rust problem, there are a few things; apply some oil and rub with some steel wool. Could try with Vaseline or a brillo pad even! Depends how bad it is. If it's bad then soak in vinegar and rub, or phosphuric acid I have heard. Probably not practical doing this being drums.

I think not getting a double pedal now is a good idea. You will probably will just 'try' and use it, not giving enough practice with your main foot, be it right or left.

To get a better sounding kick; firstly new heads are a must, batter and resonant heads. Keep the reso loosely tuned up and the batter much more tightened. Don't overdo it! Put a pillow or a towel or two in it as well. (No sleeping bags!)

trys

[SkaRabbit]

I'd go for that Sabian Pro Sonix ride personally.

I'd save and get a nice double bass pedal when you can afford it. Cheap ones are often flimsy and fall apart on you.

I'd definatly get a cowbell. I got one early on and it is a great little thing to have to open up your sound. It also helps in practising position of your cymbals percusion etc etc i used to move that bad boy around every week. Switcing between left and right side etc. Dont get a bassdrum clamp for it though they are horrible things. grab yourself a percusion clamp of some kind

www.adcdrums.co.uk Best uk drum online store in my opinion. Everything is free delivery and they are cheap too. Go on their desperate scouswives sell and look for the ambasador Snare batter/reso. They have a great range of pretty much everything and stock Big dog hardware.

A metronome is a great buy. but if you are gonna be practising in your room and you have a laptop with headphones you can use your computer. There are loads of sites with metronomes if you google it.

[wicker_man]

Thanks for the replies Trys and SkaRabbit.

I'll keep an eye for some Sabian Pro Sonix range cymbals. I missed out on a Meinl Amun 16" crash for £20 on eBay, bit annoyed!

I tried a brillo pad and managed to remove some larger bits of rust, so it's not too bad now. I think I'll just leave the rest though. The bit on the snare that turns off the snare wires seems to be stuck, so I'll try unscrewing it and maybe oiling it?

I've decided to hold off the double pedal for the time being, and I'm not going to be buying any new heads because even if I can fit my drum kit in my room in my uni house, as it is mid-terraced, I won't be able to play without mutes. I still need to try tuning though!

Thanks for the tip about ADC drums, I'll take a look there. I have found DJM Music to be the best with prices so far. I will be ordering a boom stand (for a ride cymbal I plan to purchase), a couple of drum keys, some Vic Firth Nova 5A and 5B sticks, and a cowbell :)

I have a laptop which I will be using for practicing (videos, playing to music etc), so I'll search for some online metronome software (any in particular you can suggest?)

Also, Ant_182, I may not be online for a while from tomorrow, so if you email me the pictures and details of the drum mutes, I'll get back to you when I'm online again, thanks.

[ant_182]

Hey dude, sorry man. I'll get them pics up later today and post them here. I'll be setting my kit up later for pics so I'll get some pics up about 2/3ish (UK) There's loads of websites I use. GAK is good but killer on shipping, also rockfactory.co.uk

Ant

[ant_182]

Sorry its taken so long lol
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j17/ant_182/DSCN4553.jpg
There's 13 14 and 16 pads, 22 bass drum pad and 2 cymbal pads, 1 hi hat pad (top) 1 hi hat pad (bottom). Im like nearly 100% positive theres the 12" too but I cant seem to find it. I'll look again tomorow

[trysthedrummer]

I use metronomeonline.com. Probably the worlds most used online metronome.


The snare strainer gets stuck? Try that, or it could be that the top part that you twist (to raise/lower the snares) is fully tightened so you cannot pull the lever up. If that's what you mean.

Trys

[wicker_man]

Well, I moved into my uni house but my drum kit doesn't fit in my room and there's nowhere else in the house to put it, so it's gone back home :( I'll probably buy a practice pad or something for the time being.

I've been offered a Sabian AAX 16" Dark Crash for £65 (used but in excellent condition), would it be worth going for? I won't be able to ply my drum kit until I go home in the holidays (Christmas/Easter/Summer) for the next (academic) year, so I'm in two minds whether to go for it or not.

ant_182, I'll have a think whether I will go for the pads and let you know soon. We don't have internet in out house yet, I have to go to the university library to get online.

[ant_182]

No worries mate. Its a good deal on the cymbal... if you'll use it and if you like it then get it? You should have a practice pad though, that's more important than decent cymbals.

[wicker_man]

OK thanks, I'll have a look at the cymbal (seller is local) and if I like it, then I'll go for it. It's a professional level cymbal (correct me if I'm wrong), so it should last me and I suppose I could always sell it on if necessary with minimal loss.

Did you find the 12" mute pad? Also, how is the bass drum pad fixed to it? Thanks.

[ant_182]

Been really busy this week. But I'll look again on the weekend :) The bass drum pad does have like elastic bands which I never used and lost becuase it fits so snug in the bass drum theres no need for it!

[timehawk]

For the rust, you can try rubbing it off with some tin foil. I did this when I got a older used kit, cleaned it up somewhat. It also takes the grime off too, so your left with a nice shine.

[wicker_man]

Apologies for not posting here in a while, been having problems with internet connection but it is kinda working at the moment!

I have since purchased the Sabian AAX 16" Dark Crash and also got an AAX Metal 20" ride. Looking forward to trying them out properly when I go home for Christmas and get to use my drum kit!

ant_182, if you have found the 12" mute pad, then I will buy the pad set from you.

[ant_182]

Found the 12" :)

[Jezen]

If you're living in a terraced house in England, try filling every drum with soft packing foam.

[wicker_man]

Found the 12" :)

OK great, let me know how much postage would be and if Paypal is OK, and we can proceed.

If you're living in a terraced house in England, try filling every drum with soft packing foam.

My drum kit didn't fit in my uni house, it is currently at home in the garage of a detached house (although you can still hear it playing down the street!).

[ant_182]

Nice one. Paypal is fine :) I think it said like 9 quid on the box from royal mail when I got them. So if we say £10? I think thats fair? I'll get them wrapped up and posted ASAP once payments made :)

[wicker_man]

Ok fine, if you could send me a paypal payment request to wickerman666 (at) gmail (dot) com, and let me know your email, I'll send you payment and my address to send to.

[ant_182]

Ok dude, I'll give you my email and the paypal account email :) I'll sort that out and then it should get posted first thing next week

[wicker_man]

Excellent, payment sent.

[Jezen]

OMG GUYS OSIRIS X IS BACK!

Someone's gonna get screwed.

[wicker_man]

OMG GUYS OSIRIS X IS BACK!

Someone's gonna get screwed.

Who?
Why?
:confused:

[ant_182]

mwah ha ha. Now I want another £500 then we can settle the deal:evil:

[Jezen]

Somebodys gonna get a hurt real bad!

Somebody.

I think you know him.