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Otherside
09-09-2008, 11:18 AM
http://blog.wired.com/wiredscience/2008/09/biologists-on-t.html?npu=1&mbid=yhp
A team of biologists and chemists is closing in on bringing non-living matter to life.
It's not as Frankensteinian as it sounds. Instead, a lab led by Jack Szostak, a molecular biologist at Harvard Medical School, is building simple cell models that can almost be called life.
Szostak's protocells are built from fatty molecules that can trap bits of nucleic acids that contain the source code for replication. Combined with a process that harnesses external energy from the sun or chemical reactions, they could form a self-replicating, evolving system that satisfies the conditions of life, but isn't anything like life on earth now, but might represent life as it began or could exist elsewhere in the universe.
While his latest work remains unpublished, Szostak described preliminary new success in getting protocells with genetic information inside them to replicate at the XV International Conference on the Origin of Life in Florence, Italy, last week. The replication isn't wholly autonomous, so it's not quite artificial life yet, but it is as close as anyone has ever come to turning chemicals into biological organisms.
"We've made more progress on how the membrane of a protocell could grow and divide," Szostak said in a phone interview. "What we can do now is copy a limited set of simple [genetic] sequences, but we need to be able to copy arbitrary sequences so that sequences could evolve that do something useful."
By doing "something useful" for the cell, these genes would launch the new form of life down the Darwinian evolutionary path similar to the one that our oldest living ancestors must have traveled. Though where selective pressure will lead the new form of life is impossible to know.
"Once we can get a replicating environment, we're hoping to experimentally determine what can evolve under those conditions," said Sheref Mansy, a former member of Szostak's lab and now a chemist at Denver University.
Protocellular work is even more radical than the other field trying to create artifical life: synthetic biology. Even J. Craig Venter's work to build an artificial bacterium with the smallest number of genes necessary to live takes current life forms as a template. Protocell researchers are trying to design a completely novel form of life that humans have never seen and that may never have existed.
Over the summer, Szostak's team published major papers in the journals Nature and the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences that go a long way towards showing that this isn't just an idea and that his lab will be the first to create artificial life -- and that it will happen soon.
"His hope is that he'll have a complete self-replicating system in his lab in the near future," said Jeffrey Bada, a University of California San Diego chemist who helped organize the Origin of Life conference.
Modern life is far more complex than the simple systems that Szostak and others are working on, so the protocells don't look anything like the cells that we have in our bodies or Venter's genetically-modified E. coli.
"What we're looking at is the origin of life in one aspect, and the other aspect is life as a small nanomachine on a single cell level," said Hans Ziock, a protocellular researcher at Los Alamos National Laboratory.
Life's function, as a simple nanomachine, is just to use energy to marshal chemicals into making more copies of itself.
"You need to organize yourself in a specific way to be useful," Ziock said. "You take energy from one place and move it to a place where it usually doesn't want to go, so you can actually organize things."
Modern cells accomplish this feat with an immense amount of molecular machinery. In fact, some of the chemical syntheses that simple plants and algae can accomplish far outstrip human technologies. Even the most primitive forms of life possess protein machines that allow them to import nutrients across their complex cell membranes and build the molecules that then carry out the cell's bidding.
Those specialized components would have taken many, many generations to evolve, said Ziock, so the first life would have been much simpler.
What form that simplicity would have taken has been a subject of intense debate among origin of life scientists stretching back to the pioneering work of David Deamer, a professor emeritus at UC-Santa Cruz.
What most researchers agree on is that the very first functioning life would have had three basic components: a container, a way to harvest energy and an information carrier like RNA or another nucleic acid.
Szostak's earlier work has shown that the container probably took the form of a layer of fatty acids that could self-assemble based on their reaction to water (see video). One tip of the acid is hydrophilic, meaning it's attracted to water, while the other tip is hydrophobic. When researchers put a lot of these molecules together, they circle the wagons against the water and create a closed loop.
These membranes, with the right mix of chemicals, can allow nucleic acids in under some conditions and keep them trapped inside in others.


That opens the possibility that one day, in the distant past, an RNA-like molecule wandered into a fatty acid and started replicating. That random event, through billions of evolutionary iterations, researchers believe, created life as we know it.
In a paper released this month in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, Mansy and Szostak showed that the special membranes, fat bubbles essentially, were stable under a variety of temperatures and could have manipulated molecules like DNA through simple thermal cycling, just like scientists do in PCR machines.
The entire line of research, though, begs the question: where would DNA, or any other material carrying instructions for replication, have come from?
Many researchers have tried to tackle this problem of how RNA- or DNA-like molecules could have developed from the amino acids present on the early Earth. John Sutherland, a chemist at the University of Manchester, published a paper last year demonstrating one plausible way that RNA could have spontaneously been created in the prebiotic world.
Once such molecules existed, Szostak's lab's demonstrated in a Nature paper earlier this summer that nucleic acids could replicate inside a protocell (pdf).
But while many scientists agree the protocell work is impressive, not every scientist is convinced that it contributes to a reasonable explanation for the origin of life.
"Their work is wonderful inasmuch as what they are doing can be," said Mike Russell, a geochemist with the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, California. "It's just that I'm uneasy about the significance of it to the origin of life."
Russell argues that the very first life-like molecules on Earth would have been based on inorganic compounds. Instead of a fatty acid membrane, Russell argues that iron sulfide could have provided the necessary container for early cells.
But UCSD's Bada pointed out that it as unlikely we will ever know how life actually began.
"[Szostak's] point, and how we all view it, is that it's a nice model, but it doesn't necessarily mean that it happened that way," he said.
Szostak suggested that even if life could theoretically or did begin some other way, his lab's hypothesis was (at least) experimentally plausible.
"We're now pretty much convinced that growth and division could occur under perfectly reasonable prebiotic conditions in a way that is not some artificial laboratory construction," he said.
And actually, the most intriguing possibility of all may be that the protocells in Szostak's lab do not closely model earthly life's origins. If that's true, human beings, ourselves the product of evolution from the most primitive organisms, would have created an alternative path to imbuing matter with the properties of life.
"What we have in biology is just one of many, many possibilities," Szostack said. "One of the things that always comes up when people talk about life and universal qualities is water. But is water really necessary? What if we could design a system that works in something else?"


Why as humans are we so bent on brining about our own destruction? This is the beginning of the zombie plague or something.

DBoons Ghost
09-09-2008, 11:53 AM
Awesome. It's nice to know I didn't stock up my basement for nothing.

Bread and Faxes
09-09-2008, 11:56 AM
****. My worst fears are becoming real.

I need to turn 21 quick so I can buy a shotgun.

McP3000
09-09-2008, 03:00 PM
I'm confused

This is going to take along long than 28 days

:amaze:
09-09-2008, 03:32 PM
i'm confused

that wasn't a coherent sentence




:amaze:

Iscariot
09-09-2008, 03:38 PM
****. My worst fears are becoming real.

I need to turn 21 quick so I can buy a shotgun.

you need to be 18 to buy a rifle/shotgun

or is it different where you live

and as far as that article goes - T-Virus anyone?

Futue te Ipsum
09-09-2008, 05:31 PM
http://blog.wired.com/wiredscience/2008/09/biologists-on-t.html?npu=1&mbid=yhp



Why as humans are we so bent on brining about our own destruction? This is the beginning of the zombie plague or something.You either didn't read it or you're a bit stupid

i will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're a bit stupid

Chu
09-09-2008, 05:48 PM
I don't understand where the destruction of humans falls into this.

But interesting read.

TBrown87
09-09-2008, 05:50 PM
The zombie plague?!?! This is exactly what I've been waiting for!!!

Iscariot
09-09-2008, 06:23 PM
I don't understand where the destruction of humans falls into this.

step 1. researchers create new biological entity from scratch
step 2. new life evolves under laboratory conditions
step 3. evolution leads to a new incurable virus
step 4. virus infects every living creature on earth and turns them into zombies
step 5. those who are miraculously immune fight to avoid extinction

wartomods
09-09-2008, 06:24 PM
i will die sad if i dont see armageddon in my lifetime

Iscariot
09-09-2008, 06:27 PM
ditto

Chu
09-09-2008, 06:27 PM
step 1. researchers create new biological entity from scratch
step 2. new life evolves under laboratory conditions
step 3. evolution leads to a new incurable virus
step 4. virus infects every living creature on earth and turns them into zombies
step 5. those who are miraculously immune fight to avoid extinction
I still don't see it.

Iscariot
09-09-2008, 06:28 PM
get glasses i made it pretty clear

resident evil is not a game it's a prediction of the future

sweboy
09-09-2008, 06:32 PM
step 1. researchers create new biological entity from scratch
step 2. new life evolves under laboratory conditions into a in-curable virus that turns everyone into zombies
step 3. ???
step 4. profit

Chu
09-09-2008, 06:34 PM
get glasses i made it pretty clear
No no, I see what you're saying.

The logic you used to deduce your conclusion, well it's not very good :)

Iscariot
09-09-2008, 06:37 PM
no it's pretty dead on i am a scientist after all

JJLink
09-09-2008, 06:38 PM
I Have a new life form in my refrigerator right now, I lefts some taco meat with sauce in there 7 months ago, it now is a sentient being and can count to 4 and say it's ABC's...

Futue te Ipsum
09-09-2008, 08:01 PM
No no, I see what you're saying.

The logic you used to deduce your conclusion, well it's not very good :)he's trolling. It's obvious he's not that retarded.

Otherside, however...

back to the new subject:
so, them zombies?

Iscariot
09-09-2008, 08:03 PM
hey i wasn't trolling i was joking

there's a tremendous difference

Otherside
09-09-2008, 08:37 PM
he's trolling. It's obvious he's not that retarded.

Otherside, however...

back to the new subject:
so, them zombies?

was joking as well but ty anyways

gregulus
09-09-2008, 08:52 PM
step 1. researchers create new biological entity from scratch
step 2. new life evolves under laboratory conditions
step 3. evolution leads to a new incurable virus
step 4. virus infects every living creature on earth and turns them into zombies
step 5. those who are miraculously immune fight to avoid extinction

i don't think you know what a virus is. life = organism. organism = cellular. virus =/= cellular.

Iscariot
09-10-2008, 01:33 AM
i don't think you get the internet

keyboardxmosh
09-10-2008, 01:46 AM
****. My worst fears are becoming real.

I need to turn 21 quick so I can buy a shotgun.

are you retarded? ammunition runs out, you're best with at least a broadsword, or the largest blade you can personally handle (unless your preference is different)

basically, you need to sever their brainstem from their spine

siva_chair
09-10-2008, 01:53 AM
are you retarded? ammunition runs out, you're best with at least a broadsword, or the largest blade you can personally handle (unless your preference is different)

basically, you need to sever their brainstem from their spine

Why does wanting something highly effective like a shotgun against a zombie attack make you retarded? So what if ammo runs out eventually you are way better off having one than not.

Iscariot
09-10-2008, 01:53 AM
ammunition doesn't run out when you raid every supplier you can find

and mowing down zombies with an automatic rifle >>> trying to fight a swarm of brain eaters with a sword like a medieval wannabe

MattSharpIsCool
09-10-2008, 02:04 AM
But fighting off hordes of zombies with nothing but the sword of 1000 truths would probably be the most epic thing ever imagined.

siva_chair
09-10-2008, 02:06 AM
Until you got eaten by them.

Knifeboy
09-10-2008, 04:20 AM
Man, I really need to make a zombie game one day

siva_chair
09-10-2008, 04:29 AM
Do it.

Knifeboy
09-10-2008, 04:34 AM
I will one day, I need artists though

siva_chair
09-10-2008, 04:37 AM
Well my friend got really stoned one time and drew up a really detailed stronghold designed for a zombie invasion so if you need any suggestions....

Crapdragoon
09-10-2008, 04:39 AM
psh i've done that too.

siva_chair
09-10-2008, 04:41 AM
His was remarkably detailed. I asked him how long it took him and all he said was "**** I don't know I just got really stoned and started drawing and the next thing I know it was morning...."

nungman
09-10-2008, 10:09 AM
i have a chainmail hauberk and jacket and and battle axe and shield

am i ready?

should i even get guns?

siva_chair
09-10-2008, 10:19 AM
Of course you should get guns what the hell kind of question is that?

mph4ever
09-10-2008, 10:39 AM
i have taken down enough zombies in my time, stick with these simple rules

they are most vulnerable when moving from the slumped position to standing up
powerful weapons are best so a magnum or a shotgun will do, single, accurate shots since preserving rounds is best
always go for the head, its the best way to kill quick and prepare for the next attack
sharp blade weapons are also good, chop at the neck

wartomods
09-10-2008, 11:23 AM
i don't think you know what a virus is. life = organism. organism = cellular. virus =/= cellular.

lol life isnt necessarly an organism.

gregulus
09-10-2008, 11:35 AM
lol life isnt necessarly an organism.

I recognize that there is debate regarding the classification of viruses. Generally speaking, however, life is considered related to organisms. Further than that, the article speaks of self-replicating nucleic acids inside of a phospholipid wall. Those are not viral characteristics.

siva_chair
09-10-2008, 11:45 AM
ur a viral characteristic

peeted
09-10-2008, 01:18 PM
I dont see whats wrong with being able to run away from them. I would take my speed and agility over any sword or gun.

Iscariot
09-10-2008, 03:08 PM
you'll get tired

ol' jezebel won't ;)

TBrown87
09-10-2008, 04:07 PM
Besides, they'd swarm you and eventually trap you so they could eat you at their leasure. I'd much rather have a shotgun than a sword as I could just raid Wal-Mart whenever I ran low on ammo.


EDIT: I WILL have a shotgun instead of a sword.

Iscariot
09-10-2008, 04:13 PM
i'm going to form a shotgun gang when the zombies attack

i have a 20 gauge

siva has a 12 gauge

my friend seth has a 12 gauge

my friend mike has a 410 side by side, a 12 gauge side by side, and a 20 gauge semi-auto

my friend nick has a 12 gauge

you're getting a shotgun

omg what a rad team

TBrown87
09-11-2008, 10:35 AM
You should have a sniper as well. So he can spot incoming zombie hordes and slow them down enough for you to prepare your defences. Also, a 20 guage is kind of small for taking down zombies don't you think?

stevensonmat2
09-11-2008, 11:06 AM
Why does every thread have to to turn into a zombie thread? Zombies are old and lame.

siva_chair
09-11-2008, 11:09 AM
i'm going to form a shotgun gang when the zombies attack

i have a 20 gauge

siva has a 12 gauge

my friend seth has a 12 gauge

my friend mike has a 410 side by side, a 12 gauge side by side, and a 20 gauge semi-auto

my friend nick has a 12 gauge

you're getting a shotgun

omg what a rad team

Correction: Siva has several 12 gauges.

And if you consider me a friend, then bolded statement is redundant. :p

You should have a sniper as well. So he can spot incoming zombie hordes and slow them down enough for you to prepare your defences. Also, a 20 guage is kind of small for taking down zombies don't you think?

I have rifles as well. :)

And a 20 gauge will probably do ok, as long as you have something heavier than birdshot.

Surtr
09-11-2008, 11:12 AM
I'll join the shotgun gang.

I've got a good ol' re-done Military Colt Revolver. And a re-done Lee Enfield. And a shotty too.

siva_chair
09-11-2008, 11:14 AM
That reminds me I need to get the coach gun out and shoot it at night.

Nothing like seeing huge fireballs being thrown into the night sky by a short barrelled boomstick.

Iscariot
09-11-2008, 02:59 PM
You should have a sniper as well. So he can spot incoming zombie hordes and slow them down enough for you to prepare your defences. Also, a 20 guage is kind of small for taking down zombies don't you think?

between siva's rifles and my buddy mike's 7MM long range rifle i think we have the sniper team covered

and a 20 will work fine i just have to use a heavy grain

i've got #8 shells here at home for home defense and i guarantee if i shot someone in the face from a couple of feet away with that most of their head would disappear

TBrown87
09-11-2008, 07:46 PM
I'd rather have the versatility that comes with a slug.

MattSharpIsCool
09-11-2008, 10:58 PM
A 20 gauge will do just as much damage as a 12 gauge up close. It just doesn't have the range, but that's ok because we'll have rifles.

my friend seth has a 12 gauge


Don't forget my 30/40 krag for long distance, and the 9mm, .357 mag, and .45acp for sidearms.

Damn this team is gonna be strapped.

McP3000
09-12-2008, 12:25 AM
When the zombie apocalypse breaks ill carry a very large suitcase with thousands of bullets in ammunition, six different weapons, several herbs, and a spanish-english dictionary because we all know the Ganados will hit first.

siva_chair
09-12-2008, 12:40 AM
Screw a suitcase, get a military backpack. Hands free.

McP3000
09-12-2008, 12:53 AM
but then it isnt a lame RE4 reference

siva_chair
09-12-2008, 12:58 AM
But it is good advice to save your life. Srsly.

TBrown87
09-12-2008, 04:18 PM
When the zombie apocalypse breaks ill carry a very large suitcase with thousands of bullets in ammunition, six different weapons, several herbs, and a spanish-english dictionary because we all know the Ganados will hit first.

There's no such thing as Ganados idiot. :rolleyes:

Jude
09-12-2008, 04:28 PM
The ultimate zombie game would be a dark and terrifying FPS with lots of shadows and **** for them to jump out at you, and you have to build your own barricades and stuff and just hold them off as long as you can using your environment and ammo...there would be a huge free-roaming area you can fight in and survive as long as you can...but you're ultimately doomed no matter what; it's just a matter of how long can you survive.

wartomods
09-12-2008, 04:30 PM
I will just become a zombie, seems the wise option

wartomods
09-12-2008, 04:32 PM
I recognize that there is debate regarding the classification of viruses. Generally speaking, however, life is considered related to organisms. Further than that, the article speaks of self-replicating nucleic acids inside of a phospholipid wall. Those are not viral characteristics.

and who said that we need viruses, to have zombies

sweboy
09-12-2008, 06:07 PM
The ultimate zombie game would be a dark and terrifying FPS with lots of shadows and **** for them to jump out at you, and you have to build your own barricades and stuff and just hold them off as long as you can using your environment and ammo...there would be a huge free-roaming area you can fight in and survive as long as you can...but you're ultimately doomed no matter what; it's just a matter of how long can you survive.

There's a UT mod like that: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_Floor_(mod)

don't know if it's any good though

siva_chair
09-13-2008, 03:26 AM
Killing Floor is a good song.

TBrown87
09-13-2008, 08:09 PM
Who's it by?