U.S. soldiers say they executed Iraqis

[faithr]

Three U.S. soldiers killed four handcuffed and blindfolded Iraqi prisoners with pistol shots on the bank of a Baghdad canal last year, the New York Times reported on Wednesday.

Sergeant First Class Joseph P. Mayo, the platoon sergeant, and Sergeant Michael P. Leahy Jr., Company D’s senior medic and an acting squad leader, made sworn statements in January to Army investigators in Schweinfurt, Germany probing the incident, the newspaper reported on its website.

The men each described killing one of the Iraqi detainees, as directed by First Sergeant John E. Hatley, according to the statements. Hatley shot two other detainees with a pistol in the back of the head, Mayo and Leahy told investigators, according to the NYT.

U.S. soldiers cannot harm enemy combatants once they are disarmed and in custody, the NYT said.

A spokesman for the U.S. Army in Europe declined to comment, saying he could not speculate on any future legal action.
http://waronyou.com/2008/08/us-soldiers-say-they-executed-iraqis/

[Mr. Ron]

You might want to find a more.....reliable.....source.

[Det_Nosnip]

Particularly one with citations and not connected to wack-jobs like Ron Paul.

[SugarCoatedSour]

I'd say this happens more than we think, and in larger numbers. Even if not outright kiling it's still knowingly betraying one's better judgement.

[McP3000]

Particularly one with citations and not connected to wack-jobs like Ron Paul.
i agree with the first part, not the second

[cobert]

I'd say this happens more than we think, and in larger numbers. Even if not outright kiling it's still knowingly betraying one's better judgement.

This.

[Illmatic]

this would be a bigger deal if it didn't happen in every war ever fought

[Det_Nosnip]

i agree with the first part, not the second

Sorry, but whenever Ron Paul says something, I assume the opposite to be true and so far it's worked wonders.

e.g: "We should return the country to the gold standard!!" :lol: :lol:

[Det_Nosnip]

this would be a bigger deal if it didn't happen in every war ever fought

It would still be a big deal.

[mph4ever]

tip of the iceberg but then american forces are seldom punished for atrocities commited during during their campaigns

[Det_Nosnip]

Well, of course not.

We almost always win our campaigns. The winners of any battle always seperate the war crimes from the "collateral damage."

...Can you imagine the Tokyo Trials if the Japanese had won World War II? :eek:

[mph4ever]

would have been worse than nuremburg, just wouldn't have been in tokyo, more like washington

[Det_Nosnip]

Well...yeah, I suppose. :p

[Jude]

this would be a bigger deal if it didn't happen in every war ever fought

It would still be a big deal especially when the perpetrators' government is making such a moral case for the war

[MattSharpIsCool]

It happens in every single war. Not trying to defend it, but that's just how it is.

You give a jacked up, testosterone-filled guy a rifle and free reign, then train him to hate who you're fighting, and things will get out of hand sometimes.

[siva_chair]

Sorry, but whenever Ron Paul says something, I assume the opposite to be true and so far it's worked wonders.

e.g: "We should return the country to the gold standard!!" :lol: :lol:

Representative money and the Gold Standard protect citizens from hyperinflation and other abuses of monetary policy.

"under the gold standard, a free banking system stands as the protector of an economy's stability and balanced growth... The abandonment of the gold standard made it possible for the welfare statists to use the banking system as a means to an unlimited expansion of credit... In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation."--Greenspan

Perhaps a system only backed only by gold is impractical, but the idea of money based on something other than "the good word of the Fed" is a good idea, imo.

[Smokey D]

It's not based on the good word of the Fed. It's based on the value of participating in the American economy divided by money supply.

[Iscariot]

i don't see why something like this would be a surprise as it happens in every war, and i don't see why it's only the US troops that have the balls to own up to what they did while the troops deployed from all other allied countries sit around with a finger up their *** pretending they didn't do anything similar and the rest of their countrymen pretend right along with them and point all fingers at the united states

you know what i see when i hear about something like this? accountability

yeah they murdered civilians but they at least had the balls to confess to it and face the consequences

troops from other nations of deployment never own up to a damn thing

and it's hard to judge someone for doing something of this nature when you consider the kind of hell these men are going through

i was one plane trip away from being there myself and i have a few dozen friends over there right now

these guys will never be the men i knew before they deployed and i can't entirely blame them for the things they may have done because when you're in that kind of situation you don't act like everybody's dream boy from the house next door, you lose your compassion for human life a little more with every bullet fired and every friend lost

[siva_chair]

It's not based on the good word of the Fed. It's based on the value of participating in the American economy divided by money supply.

Yes and the money supply is controlled by the Fed and it's good word as creditor. It is not representative of any sort of actual commodity.

The net result of monetary inflation is devaluation of savings and purchasing power of the dollar.

[Smokey D]

It's representative of the quality of particpating in the US economy.

If the dollar inflates, the value of the US economy doesn't decrease. Not in the long run. It just means you need more tickets.

[Iscariot]

i think i missed something

it usually takes a few pages for the topic of the thread to change but somehow this thread went from being about systematic executions of iraqi detainees to the effects of the war on the us economy in less than a full page of posts

you guys are weird

[siva_chair]

It's representative of the quality of particpating in the US economy.

If the dollar inflates, the value of the US economy doesn't decrease. Not in the long run. It just means you need more tickets.

The more tickets in circulation, the less the value of the individual ticket.

It is this central managing of inflation and interest rates that has caused all these bubbles to burst in the housing markets and whatnot, all while diminishing the purchasing power of the US dollar.

[Smokey D]

The more tickets in circulation, the less the value of the individual ticket.

Yeah I know taht's what I said. The value of money is the value of participating in the economy divided by the amount in circulation.


It is this central managing of inflation and interest rates that has caused all these bubbles to burst in the housing markets and whatnot, all while diminishing the purchasing power of the US dollar.

Sort of. Greenspan was probably too ambitious with his monetary policy but it doesn't mean that some sort of mineral standard would be better.

[siva_chair]

Yeah I know taht's what I said. The value of money is the value of participating in the economy divided by the amount in circulation.

Yes and then from that you can see why it really is just backed by the good word of the Fed as a credit lender. Also, the Fed lacks accountability and transparency, which is highly disconcerning.

This sort of inflation is really bad when it's effects are analyzed with real wages.

Sort of. Greenspan was probably too ambitious with his monetary policy but it doesn't mean that some sort of mineral standard would be better.

It would provide much greater stability and market safegaurds against things like the aforementioned housing market crisis and things like the Great Depression, which the Fed really just made worse.

[Det_Nosnip]

Siva.

Stop with the ridiculously misguided counter history.

The gold standard DEFINITETLY would not have prevented the Great Depression. The "Fed" made the Great Depression unimaginably better. If it weren't for FDR, thousands of people would have died and more still would have been completely ruined. The Great Depression was the ultimate example of why unregulated market capitalism simply does NOT work.

[siva_chair]

Siva.

Stop with the ridiculously misguided counter history.

The gold standard DEFINITETLY would not have prevented the Great Depression. The "Fed" made the Great Depression unimaginably better. If it weren't for FDR, thousands of people would have died and more still would have been completely ruined. The Great Depression was the ultimate example of why unregulated market capitalism simply does NOT work.

Ha! Counter history.

The Fed made the GD worse by contracting the money supply at the very moment that markets needed liquidity.

Read Friedman's Free to Choose: A Personal Statement .

[free_thinkers_are_dangerous]

ffs start an economics thread.

I think soldiers doing this should be brought to justice, but at the same time I'd understand if the army kept it on the down-low. Every incident like this sets back progress by months if not years.

[Illmatic]

It would still be a big deal especially when the perpetrators' government is making such a moral case for the war

yeah but I think history has proven that the only way to win a war is to do horrible, unspeakable things.

when you think about it all war really is is sending 18 year old kids off to a country they know almost nothing about to kill people they've never met (but have been told to hate). I don't know how you can apply morals to that.

[SugarCoatedSour]

I think that knowingly doing bad things is neurotic.

[Amit]

this Would Be A Bigger Deal If It Didn't Happen In Every War Ever Fought

23`1

[Iscariot]

I think that knowingly doing bad things is neurotic.

spend a year thousands of miles from home with people jumping out and shooting at you or trying to blow you up 24 hours a day and see if you don't do some awful things

[Amit]

we should all go watch generation kill and drink beers!

[Iscariot]

yee-haw!

[SugarCoatedSour]

I wouldn't. Because I wouldn't join an army in a nation that's notorious for waging useless wars for the sake of profiteering.

[Iscariot]

what are you a hair stylist

[SugarCoatedSour]

Are you trying to make me laugh? Because I can't help but think something condescending.

[Iscariot]

i'm halfway mocking you but i don't completely disagree with your opinion of the military

i still think you shouldn't be so quick to disregard what those hundreds of thousands of men and women are doing just because you don't support it

when it comes right down to it they're still fighting for every one of us back at home

it's not their fault our government makes bad decisions

[SugarCoatedSour]

Ya but the government isn't just making "bad decisions". They're knowingly making bad decisions and convoluting the information that comes to us. So I have no want to aid any multinational legacy or anyone who blindly supports one. It is actually pretty sad for all parties involved except those making the decisions.

[Iscariot]

it's not about blindly supporting a bad system

the military pays for college, you get fantastic health insurance, you get a several hundred thousand dollar life insurance policy, and the entire time you're deployed you get hazard pay which, depending on your rank, could boost your salary into the thousands of dollars every month

find another job that someone fresh out of high school can get that offers these things

[SugarCoatedSour]

I was considering that as I was typing the post. But why is that any reason to take the easy way and fall into rank. Why not get everyone in your area who uses their brain and understands the situation, gain some visibility statewide get everyone together in the nation and give those politicians the boot. Too hard right....you have to think and stuff... it's better using a political system that can only function within the 17th century or for small settlements.

The fact is the system is designed to be changed at will by the masses. Too bad the good bulk of people who can do something are neurotic and are generally helpless without instructions from their government.

[Illmatic]

I was considering that as I was typing the post. But why is that any reason to take the easy way and fall into rank. Why not get everyone in your area who uses their brain and understands the situation, gain some visibility statewide get everyone together in the nation and give those politicians the boot. Too hard right....you have to think and stuff... it's better using a political system that can only function within the 17th century or for small settlements.

what the **** are you talking about

[Iscariot]

yeah he completely lost me there

[Shell]

it's not about blindly supporting a bad system

the military pays for college, you get fantastic health insurance, you get a several hundred thousand dollar life insurance policy, and the entire time you're deployed you get hazard pay which, depending on your rank, could boost your salary into the thousands of dollars every month

find another job that someone fresh out of high school can get that offers these things

and then you get injured and discharged and they don't pay for your medical care afterward, right and so then you can't get another job because you have a bum ankle

i'm sure i didn't get the details correct there but i'm surprised to see you defending the military in this way after your experience

[Iscariot]

and then you get injured and discharged and they don't pay for your medical care afterward, right and so then you can't get another job because you have a bum ankle

i'm sure i didn't get the details correct there but i'm surprised to see you defending the military in this way after your experience

granted i got shafted and treated like garbage but it still works for a lot of people

would i personally ever re-enlist? i don't know

i'm getting desperate again

would i ever re-enlist in the army? no

[BridgeToSolace]

in the army's defense, I wouldn't want Jared in my army either.

I've hear of some shitty recruiting methods, though. 18 year olds caught for petty theft or something, told by a judge "You can either face the maximum prison time for your crime or enlist in the military."

Obviously, for the reasons Jared mentioned, they pick the military. Better than getting raped in the bum, neh?

And that's why I'm not surprised that this happened. There are some shitty people in the military. It doesn't change that fact that the army is full of great people, though.

[Iscariot]

in the army's defense, I wouldn't want Jared in my army either.

hey fu

when it comes to killing people and enjoying it i'm your man

I've hear of some shitty recruiting methods, though. 18 year olds caught for petty theft or something, told by a judge "You can either face the maximum prison time for your crime or enlist in the military."

Obviously, for the reasons Jared mentioned, they pick the military. Better than getting raped in the bum, neh?

And that's why I'm not surprised that this happened. There are some shitty people in the military. It doesn't change that fact that the army is full of great people, though.

exactly

i hate the extremist idea that everyone who joins the military is no better than a blood thirsty animal

not everyone can be born a trust-fund baby

[Amit]

hey jared have you seen generaiton kill yet

it's an awesome show

[SugarCoatedSour]

what the **** are you talking about

Uh oh, incorrect procedure incorrect procedure error. error.

[Iscariot]

hey jared have you seen generaiton kill yet

it's an awesome show

no my good friend amit i have not because i don't have hbo

if i can find it online i'll check it out

[Amit]

i dont have hbo either i just download the hd episodes you should do the same!

[Iscariot]

oh well in that case i will!