Youtube and the aftermath

[ian1988]

So there I was on youtube browsing though some videos, and I stumbled upon this girls page.

http://www.youtube.com/user/jackiecas1

Watched her Underoath - Writings On The Walls video and I thought it stunk balls. While everyone else was giving her 3 cheers and AWESOME/PERFECT/GREAT PLAYING.

I wasn't one bit impressed. I thought she was the biggest poser.

So on I go leaving a somewhat brash comment I admit, stating how I'd never post a video of me playing that sloppily and would rather jump of a bridge.

Obviously its blown out of proportion and every dick tom and harry jump on the band wagon and flamed my page. Its HILLARIOUS

http://www.youtube.com/user/ian1988

thats what happened to mine. I love the immature scene kid fanboy flame/spam on my page.

Read through my comments and tell me your opinions?

They say I cant drum....

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=586423

theres 4 clips of me playing. Oppenheimer being the one we recently recorded.... Its unmixed hence why I haven't made a thread about it yet.

Opinions? Please critique my logical reasonings of my comments. I'm not saying I don't deserve any of the flaming, I'm just trying to point out the fact shes not that good and that people worship her for the fact she plays shitty covers sloppily and that shes a girl.

[DxRocker]

Why would you care about what people on "teh internetz" (and youtube of all places!) think about anyone or anything?

Never forget the age old saying, it's been around since '96, around the time the first forums started to pop up: "Fighting on the internet is like running the special Olympics. If you win, you are still a retard"

My advice to you is to not run in the special Olympics...

Although I know from experience that it is rather easy (and entertaining at times) to get sucked in in such flame fests :D

[Charlie Daniels]

I listened to "Check Yes Juliet", the default video, and to be honest I didn't think she was half bad.

It's a well known fact the you-tubers generally don't understand the finer points of drumming, and they think with their bollocks rather than with their brains, and I think that all of them would agree that she's no Dave Weckl... but I don't really think she's trying to be. I don't see her bragging or whatever so I'd probably just leave her alone :-/

But maybe I just feeling kind today? :-S

[ian1988]

Haha yeah I kinda realised it after it started. I have a knack for do first think later. Gets me all the time.

I don't "care" about it as you put it... **** I've got better things to do like my Accounting and Finance studies but it was just that I had enough of retards saying how good this mediocre girl is.

[ian1988]

I listened to "Check Yes Juliet", the default video, and to be honest I didn't think she was half bad.

It's a well known fact the you-tubers generally don't understand the finer points of drumming, and they think with their bollocks rather than with their brains, and I think that all of them would agree that she's no Dave Weckl... but I don't really think she's trying to be. I don't see her bragging or whatever so I'd probably just leave her alone :-/

But maybe I just feeling kind today? :-S

Its more in her FAQ part that seems so fake and all high and mighty...

Check out her Writings on the walls video... its pretty bad

about how she got SJC drums and now she tabs everything by ear and how shes willing to lay down tracks for people etc etc.

Also as a response to some guy commenting on how she wasn't that good, she stated how she felt sorry for him as she would be more famous then him and that he had no life just posting negative comments about her.

[DxRocker]

Yeah well... most none-drummers would also vote Ulrich, Jordison, Barker and Portnoy to be the absolute drum gods of all times before Weckl, Vinni C, Chambers, Bozzio and the rest of the "real" gods... :)

For the same reason why a lot of teens would place Brittney Squeels above J Jackson, K Minogue, Madonna etc.

It's not because they don't know better or because they are immature. It's just because they are stupid and brainwashed (or in this case: see breasts jumping around during some up-tempo beat). :lol:

As for her own self-praising comments... yeah well. Give it a few years. Back when I was 15, I was also convinced that I was gonna conquer the world with my Thunder drums and Paiste 302 crash :lol:

Today I'm writing .NET code all day long like some kind of Microsoft nerd boy. See how that dream turned out??

ow god.... :lol:

[ian1988]

Unfortunately its not only non drummers but also the every growing army of pop punk tryhards who seem to think that the only type of music in existence is the garbage they put on MTV.

ah well guess this new wave of teenagers will just have to live in a world of ignorance and unclassy simplicity

[Berk]

I'm actually really impressed at what she's done, same with that chaserrr guy. theyve covered acouple popular songs and got the viewers attention, hell, that chaserrr guy even got an endorsement. basically anything they do now, people will like. its a great famous on the internet.

[ian1988]

see Chaserrr I don't have a problem with. In fact Kudos! He's actually pretty dam good and I like the sound his band has. He deserves the attention he gets.

She on the other hand....

[DxRocker]

Unfortunately its not only non drummers but also the every growing army of pop punk tryhards who seem to think that the only type of music in existence is the garbage they put on MTV.

ah well guess this new wave of teenagers will just have to live in a world of ignorance and unclassy simplicity

Those kind of people have always existed and will always exist you know. And the music they listen to will most likely always be played by people à la Lang, Vinni C etc. And I'm pretty sure guys like Lang are glad that this is the case. It means they don't have to run from papperazi like the people these ignorants worship AND they get to earn a good living by doing the thing they do best. :lol:

[Retarded Chipple]

Yeah, she aint that great. Bad taste in music and meh playing ability.


Ian, when she fails to make anything of herself in the music industry and ends up with no money, she'll turn to you for financial advise. SHAZAM!

[Ampz]

The girl sucks. She was waving around the fact that she's "endorsed" by SJC drums and whatnot like anyone is supposed to care.
I don't like that Chase guy either, he plays music that has pretty much the same ride crashing and simple beat to it. He can play I know that, but he won't play anything that doesn't involve drumming like a monkey.

[Zildjian]

I'm actually really impressed at what she's done, same with that chaserrr guy. theyve covered acouple popular songs and got the viewers attention, hell, that chaserrr guy even got an endorsement. basically anything they do now, people will like. its a great famous on the internet.

same thing with that dude who drumed to super mario theme doing bunch of portnoy beats, and has a kit just like him, he got an endorsement.. i forgot his name.... its all luck now, you cant be origional and get anywhere now.

She was'nt to bad, shes above average for a youtube drummer actually. But she wont go anywhere doing covers. make your own music and lets see how it is. She says she learns everything by ear? im guessing she cant read music eather?

ian, don't waste your time fighting with this chick and her crew.. You obviously matured as a person going to school and knowing you wont make a career as a drummer.

[Panopticon]

chaserrr is fcking annoying. Worst drum sound i've ever heard. His bass drum almost drowns out his cymbals.

[Damo]

The most important thing about your playing is to firstly have the passion to give it your all. Id rather watch someone play their utmost and fall short of the marks in places, than someone who could nail it, but does it with such a lacklustre vibe you become bored with it half way through.

I give full credit to this girl here. She may or may not be overstating her abilities/connections in the scene/future as a musician but trust me when I say; If she really cant deliver the goods, the scene will sort her out quick-smart!

Ian: I can see where your comments are coming from, and no one is above criticism. But its the way youve pitched it that seems more like a threat than genuine critique. The better player (IMO you) should be encouraging the ability she has, and not ripping so much on skills she doesnt have. At the end of the day, its damn cool shes even into drumming.

Some people would argue that its only the internet and it doesnt matter at all. Newsflash - These people that supposedly dont matter are your purchasing public and their opinion of you DOES matter, particularly if you aim to put yourself in the spotlight also. Inability to think before you comment can land you in hot water and the higher you rise, the more people are going to chop you down. Dont give them a reason!

Best of luck to all :)

[DxRocker]

Ian, when she fails to make anything of herself in the music industry and ends up with no money, she'll turn to you for financial advise. SHAZAM!

I lol'ed :lol:

[ian1988]

Yeah, she aint that great. Bad taste in music and meh playing ability.


Ian, when she fails to make anything of herself in the music industry and ends up with no money, she'll turn to you for financial advise. SHAZAM!

AHAHA, I like the way you think. Thing is my hourly rate would probably be more then the cost of her drumkit lol!

Zildjian:

I can't sight read either and learned drums mainly through playing by ear but I did get formal lessons so I can annotate and understand the basics. Would be the case for most people I'd assume. But yeah I'd personally like to see her come up with her own parts to some songs that she wrote or some play-along tracks. Doubt it'll ever happen.

Shes above average... but Christ, even I wasnt that sloppy 1.5 years into drumming. Even then I wasn't proud of my drumming.

Haha na I'm not its just funny seeing all these horny angry frustrated pedophilic chumps defending her when they themselves can't even hold down a beat.

Best part is.. This guy absolutely hated what I said, yet he still left a comment saying how he loved my song from my current band and wanted to know where to download it lol

BTW still rocking those Rockstars?

[ian1988]

Ian: I can see where your comments are coming from, and no one is above criticism. But its the way youve pitched it that seems more like a threat than genuine critique. The better player (IMO you) should be encouraging the ability she has, and not ripping so much on skills she doesnt have. At the end of the day, its damn cool shes even into drumming.

Oh no doubt, I realised that it was the wrong move but it happens and yes I could have worded it better but its the honest truth. I've had comments thrown at me that were far worse. It made me strive better but I guess different upbringings contour different mindsets.

The main topic of debate is the fact that I think shes sloppy and doesn't deserve one bit the credit she gets. Only reason is because she has tits. Period.

[Panopticon]

tbh...tits are the tits!

[Damo]

The main topic of debate is the fact that I think shes sloppy and doesn't deserve one bit the credit she gets.
I personally disagree with your comment, and even then Id question whether it wasnt just a case of sour grapes.

Shes generating her own credit by exposing her playing and talking about what she has achieved. Nobody gets famous by simply being a great player. Marketing, at some point, has to come into it. Whether shes gone further than the rest of us or not doesnt negate the fact that shes developing the fine skill of promotion/marketing - which is desperately needed to be noted in the scene - great ability or not. Chances are, youll even go back to her site periodically - For the wrong reasons perhaps, but shes managed to get her playing out there and in front of you.

Check out this link - another female drummer that understands the value of promotion:

http://www.luxdrummer.com/

I still find it crazy that I have my own website and that people download and appreciate my lessons! I read about people loving the clips Ive posted. Personally, I know at least a dozen players locally who are far more accomplished a player than I am. I also get the occasional mail from someone who says they can play better than I can, or that their band is better - Hey, perhaps they are right, but nobody's finding out about them because they are too afraid to promote themselves out there for criticism.

[fishbulb]

same thing with that dude who drumed to super mario theme doing bunch of portnoy beats, and has a kit just like him, he got an endorsement.. i forgot his name.... its all luck now, you cant be origional and get anywhere now.

Although unimportant, his name is vadrum.

If nothing else she is playing drums and making videos and people enjoy watching them so she is helping the drumming community, no?

[Chippy569]

If nothing else she is playing drums and making videos and people enjoy watching them so she is helping the drumming community, no?
that depends. If simply adding exposure to the drumming community is "helping" the community then yes, but wouldn't you rather put your "best foot forward" so to speak and have the best possible performances doing the exposing? I didn't read all the drama, though i did listen to the underoath song and also ian's song ("Oppenheimer" right?). I do agree that, just watching that one particular video, she's got a lot of room to improve.

[Talos]

I found it hard to watch her play Writing on the Walls and I really like that track.
Chaserr would be good if he wasnt such an emo fag :p
But Cobus totally pwns him, Cobus is tight.

[Zildjian]

But Cobus totally pwns him, Cobus is tight.

he's okay, best youtube drummer imo is still matter. ive yet to find one better

[Cheungman]

i've seen weckl on youtube

[crazyguy832]

Ha... Cobus... don't like the guy. He's just a little full of himself.

At least... that's just how he comes off.

Moron tried to convince me his drums sounded better than every professional kit on the market.

:smash:

[fishbulb]

What about matter, is he any different?

[Sponer]

it's quite simple really. there are a bunch of dudes who think defending that girl from nasty drumming comments on the internet will give them a chance to talk privately with her via instant messaging program.

[-TGP-]

People need to chill.

Everyone, like.. criticism is what it is, but she also isnt anything spectacular.

Wamp wamp.

[mattsmith]

As someone who also takes his own youtube page very seriously, I've always sort of admired this girl's marketing strategy, all discussions of talent aside (I agree with Damo that you're the better musician btw).

She has obviously networked a large number of people to help enlist that huge subscription base, and more to the point, a great many of them serve as her troll cops, which is really the key to having a troll free youtube site.

I learned early on that Internet critique is a kind of joke really. See, a guy like yourself with some mostly correct points is a tough sell in youtube culture, unless your comments are totally and completely nonobjective, without a hint of bias. The reason being, the minute anything other than an even toned comment is seen, it is followed by 100 trolls who come to raise hell. Then you have to not only erase that stuff, but some of those idiots will actually follow you from video to video.

All this happens immediately when you get 100 subscribers. Then all hell breaks loose with troll fever. Since I've been doing a youtube channel, I've had 7 videos go over 100,000. But eventually I had to delete all of them, because the troll maintenence was too much trouble. This kind of stuff is no concern to somebody like Vadrum, because his traffic is high enough to absorb the larger part of his troll problem. For mid level sites like mine, the trolls can wreck stuff pretty well.

The worst is when someone else links one of your videos as one of their own. Then you have no control over the insane troll riots, and your troll cops have to go over there to keep order. The highest count I ever got on a video on someone else's channel was almost 400,000. But I had to beg the channel sponsor to delete it, because the trolls had just trashed the place. And you knew that most weren't actually watching the video, because the comments were coming a lot faster than the actual video traffic. Still I hated seeing that video go, because the guy who used it obviously went to a lot of trouble to push such high viewership, which is part of the fun and the sport of having a channel.

I always have reliable troll cops who pitch in from time to time to keep the trolls honest. To this day I have yet to actually meet one of these helpers face to face. Some of them saw me get relentlessly trolled a couple of years ago, and just started showing up out of habit. Now they just enjoy it as a way of killing some time every once in a while.

The objective with these nut job trolls is to push them to the wall until they don't want to play anymore. But you can never go as far as they do, and you have to stay within the official rules of youtube. Most times, it's pretty easy because the agenda of a psycho troll is usually easy to spot right away. These people who say just ignore them and be above the fray have obviously never had a youtube channel.

I don't even address the so called e argument point of view. Instant Internet posting has changed the rules forever. These aren't letters to the editor they're writing to you, with very, very few actually trying to objectively criticize. And even when the trolls are relatively harmless or stupid, it's still the same as them taking a dump in your front yard, after you spent a lot of time trying to have a nice informative channel.

Obviously this girl sees things the same way. It looks like when you showed up, her troll cops were a little trigger happy that day. But when it comes to maintaining her channel, she knows how to play the game. But Damo's right. If over time she's got nothing to sell, everything equals out anyway.

[Det_Nosnip]

Hmm...yeah, she's not great. That black eye peas cover was really out of time and everything else is a snooze fest. Can't say that there's too much of a point in going on the offensive though, as others have pointed out.

BTW your band's pretty sweet Ian. Just keep it positive and focus on your own stuff!

[Chippy965]

oh **** guys drama on the internet

i don't see why you care about her and the people of youtube, they're mainly ****heads

get over it and next time don't tell us about it

[airtricycle]

Oshi

[Jeppen]

haha, i stumbled on her a while back. Just kinda funny that i thought it may be her before i clicked on the link you posted.

[fishbulb]

By the way, i love the oppenheimer song on your soundclick. Anything else similar to that in the making?

[DxRocker]

I think it should be fun to invite the girl to join this forum :)

[ian1988]

By the way, i love the oppenheimer song on your soundclick. Anything else similar to that in the making?

haha cheers. Um potentially! We are in the process of writing up another song. Nearly done! But in terms of getting an EP out... Possibly end of the year?

[Cheungman]

^ ok?

[fishbulb]

haha cheers. Um potentially! We are in the process of writing up another song. Nearly done! But in terms of getting an EP out... Possibly end of the year?
Nice! Definitely post it here, i'd like to hear it.

[leftydrummer]

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p97/Captain_Killgore/artie_lange.jpg

is all I am going to say, about youtube its a love/hate relationship with everyone on it.

[AdultSwim815]

I thought she was pretty decent. She said she was just doing it for fun, so really you can't be too harsh because of that. If she said she was the **** that'd be one thing, but she's just a girl trying to have some fun on the drums.

[santi3hg]

Shes got a cute drumset I'll give her that.

[DemonicRubberDucky]

The girl rotates her arms at a 25-degree angle for every hit she takes. It's pretty sad, haha

[mustang-monk]

tbh theres no need to put a nasty comment on her page because shes getting undue credit. its not as if she said "give my drumming mad props and ill show you my bewbs" she like many other people put up videos because drumming is something she likes to do and she wants to share what shes doing with others, whether she getts her drumming 100% or not. somepeople only put videos of their most perfect performances on youtube some are just happy to put what ever they can do up there. people shouldnt be stopped on posting performances if theyre not up to other musicians high standards. if you dont have something nice or at least consructive to saydont comment.

[Chippy965]

winnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnning post

[sLarkin20]

I get angry at girls.

[oliv_da_skinmasher]

Do you? Wow.

[RushHourSoul]

he's okay, best youtube drummer imo is still matter. ive yet to find one better

How about Max Sansalone??

his username is dimsunk

http://www.youtube.com/user/dimsunk

this guy is incredible, he has great feel and technique & his drums sound awesome (and he only uses like a condenser mic for the whole kit). His accent is a little bit creepy though

[Mr Pink]

The girl rotates her arms at a 25-degree angle for every hit she takes. It's pretty sad, haha


So you must have never seen Tommy Lee drum, or moon or anyone who has added this element for visual performance sake?? She is OK. Gina Schlock did OK being a journeyman drummer. Like grandma Pink used to say, If you don't have anything good to say, don't say anything.
Any drummer who known his $hit knows how good she is and you are not letting US in on any great secret by stating what is obvious. There is nothing wrong with a little self promotion.

[Senseless Apprentice]

How about Max Sansalone??

his username is dimsunk

http://www.youtube.com/user/dimsunk

this guy is incredible, he has great feel and technique & his drums sound awesome (and he only uses like a condenser mic for the whole kit). His accent is a little bit creepy though

Ah dude! This guy is such an inspiration!


And cut Jackie some slack. She does what she does fairly well, and she enjoys it. Let's all be friends! :chug:

[diabolical_rosin]

she should make an entry in the Bleed contest.

[Retarded Chipple]

How about Max Sansalone??

his username is dimsunk

http://www.youtube.com/user/dimsunk

this guy is incredible, he has great feel and technique & his drums sound awesome (and he only uses like a condenser mic for the whole kit). His accent is a little bit creepy though


He is pretty amazing....but he's not a 16 year old girl like the one in question!