which country should I move to?

[1338 h4x0r]

This should be an interesting thread. Let me preface it by saying that I wouldn't consider myself stupidly anti-American. In fact, it really irritates me when people blindly criticize everything from America ... like the time somebody told me I "grew up in racist Southern churches", despite the fact that I am neither racist, nor Southern, nor a church-goer. My problem is that I live in a waning empire. The incompetent grasping for power makes me feel unsafe. Our popular culture is deep, deep in the shitter, too, which makes life very unpleasant for me. I even find a lot of adults immature and that's not just a function of the grass being greener on the other side, I've had people from other countries tell me about what I long suspected to be true.

Right now I have like three choices. All of them have the advantage of having metropoles and good mass transit btw.

Canada

Pros:


Sheer geographical convenience
More suitable weather
Generally Anglophone
For reasons I won't go into, I have a sneaking suspicion I might be on the 'no fly' list, but I suppose all this Ministry of Love bullshit won't affect moving in to Canada, mirite?


Cons:


Maybe a little too familiar compared to another Anglo country ... I like new experiences


Sweden

Pros:


Elite weather
Mettulz
Really good higher education system. Going for a Ph.D. at Chalmers would be baller
Wimmen-folk
I'm already more or less literate in the language
Other European countries are hard by, which should be incredible
Would be different from what I'm used to, but not shockingly different


Cons:


Government is maybe a little more Socialist than I really like
I'd be an introvert surrounded by even more introverts ... that might not be very elite


Taiwan

Pros:


Overall, Confucian culture is baller ... I love the value that Chinese people put on education, both for its own sake and for self-improvement
Fairly Westernized compared to some of its neighbors
Incredibly beautiful natural scenery
Once you get to know Chinese people, they are often really warm-hearted. I already know a Taiwanese man, so I have my foot in the door as it were. I'm not even that good at networking, but they just make it so damn easy for me.
Wimmen-folk, plus being sheet white is considered attractive


Cons:


I'd miss more than a few things about the West
Traffic can be quite dangerous
Some problems with pollution (although I understand that's changing)
Somewhat hectic pace of life there (although if I were in a job I really loved, that wouldn't be a problem at all)
Mandarin (with Traditional characters no less) should prove difficult


Not all of the pros and cons are of equal weight, so I can't subtract the number of cons from pros, slap my hands together and say that's that. Before I make up a detailed system of utility functions to make my choice for me, I figured I'd throw out the discussion here.

[spitfirejunky]

Toronto and Montreal are amazing. I don't know anything about Sweden and Taiwan. So I'll choose Canada.

I think you're a little too paranoid about the current situation. Moving is still a good idea though if the other countries better fit your tastes.

But I'll tell you one thing: I'll take American pop culture over Swedish/Taiwanese/Canadian any day.

[Hababi]

ok you think sweden has great weather

you are nuts.

[Sunshine]

I'd say Taiwan.
Yeah, the language reading/speaking would be kind of a hard hit at first, but if you dive on in you'd pick it up pretty fast.

/Asia whore

[Hababi]

ok quick guide to countries, based on these variables:

Crime rate
Pollution and general health
Culture
Economy
Weather




Canada:
Cr: 3
Po: 3
Cu: 6
Ec: 4
We: 7


Britain:
Cr: 4.5
Po: 4
Cu: 2
Ec: 3.5
We: 6

Taiwan:
Cr: 2
Po: 6
Cu: 4
Ec: 3
We: 4

Rwanda:
Cr: 3
Po: 4
Cu: 6
Ec: 7
We: 1

Sweden:
Cr: 2
Po: 2
Cu: 4
Ec: 3
We: 8

Malta:
Cr: 1
Po: 2
Cu: 5
Ec: 4
We:1






Rating of 1-10. 1 being most desirable. 10 being least. Place weight on them as you like

[Jude]

Norway is supposed to be like the best place to live
Canada has a lot of the pros of America with few of the cons but also lacks a lot of the bigger pros
Israel has an awesome climate and is mad chill (people **** on the beach all over the place) but you have to put up with psychotic zionists
Palestine is pretty nice if you don't mind living under military occupation
Turkey, well I only know about Istanbul but Istanbul is sweet as hell, it's like New York but with Turkish women who are incredibly hot...but the language is ridiculous hard to learn
Egypt, stay the hell away

[sweboy]

lol chalmers, buncha nerds!

And swedish popular culture = american popular culture, basically, minus the R&B. Sweden is like a cultural wasteland, there is very little interest in music among the people here. Yeah metal (mainly death) is pretty big I guess but I don't think there's a hot a lively metal scene or anything. Yah and the weather sucks 9 out of 12 months, we don't even get a lof of snow in the winters anymore, just windy crap rain in your face and +2°C. It's not very black metal at all (though up in the north they get mad nice snow, like 1 meter+).

[1338 h4x0r]

Toronto and Montreal are amazing. I don't know anything about Sweden and Taiwan. So I'll choose Canada.

Fair enough.


I think you're a little too paranoid about the current situation. Moving is still a good idea though if the other countries better fit your tastes.

I was quite unjustly threatened with federal investigation once. I must admit I'm a bit sore about it. I don't like to tell the story, so I'll leave it at that.


But I'll tell you one thing: I'll take American pop culture over Swedish/Taiwanese/Canadian any day.

If you mean jazz, riding around on loud motorcycles and cultural classlessness, then sure. If you mean American Idol, apathetically sitting around eating Cheetos in front of the football game and cottage cheese asses, then no.

lol chalmers, buncha nerds!

<-- that would be me


And swedish popular culture = american popular culture, basically, minus the R&B. Sweden is like a cultural wasteland, there is very little interest in music among the people here.

Do the adults not act like 14 year olds? That's the kicker for me.

Yah and the weather sucks 9 out of 12 months, we don't even get a lof of snow in the winters anymore, just windy crap rain in your face and +2°C. It's not very black metal at all

**** nigg.

[Jude]

Germany: real sweet but Europeans are kind of elitist
Japan: unless you're a ****in anime nerd then no

That's almost all the countries I've been to long enough to judge

[thedeadwalk!]

If you don't want to be part of a waning power, you'd rather be the target of a rising power? That's Taiwan's situation, right? I wouldn't mind living in South Korea. I'm very fond of that place.

Anyway, Toronto sounds amazing from what I've seen just of its food from No Reservations. Also, I heart cold weather. Georgia is killing me.

[1338 h4x0r]

Germany: real sweet but Europeans are kind of elitist

tr00f, but if you drop mad geographical knowledge, you'll generally look BETTER in their eyes because the majority of Americans serve as a kind of dramatic foil

If you don't want to be part of a waning power, you'd rather be the target of a rising power? That's Taiwan's situation, right? I wouldn't mind living in South Korea. I'm very fond of that place.

I don't think China will really invade Taiwan. They know they wouldn't really benefit a lot from it, and they sure as hell would lose a lot. I mean, Jhee-zus, they already have Guangdong province, why do they really need Taiwan?!

I'd say Taiwan.
Yeah, the language reading/speaking would be kind of a hard hit at first, but if you dive on in you'd pick it up pretty fast.

/Asia whore

The traditional characters ARE really beautiful

[Hababi]

Norway is supposed to be like the best place to live
Canada has a lot of the pros of America with few of the cons but also lacks a lot of the bigger pros
Israel has an awesome climate and is mad chill (people **** on the beach all over the place) but you have to put up with psychotic zionists
Palestine is pretty nice if you don't mind living under military occupation
Turkey, well I only know about Istanbul but Istanbul is sweet as hell, it's like New York but with Turkish women who are incredibly hot...but the language is ridiculous hard to learn
Egypt, stay the hell away

Turkish isn't hard learn. It's remarkably consistent and logically agglutinating.

[Sunshine]

The traditional characters ARE really beautiful

Yeah, and you learn 'em eventually.

They still use Chinese characters in Japan, so I've had to learn a couple hundred ><
Still got a looong way to go if I'm goin' to be tryin' and readin' the paper, though.

The cool thing is, Korea uses 'em too. And for the most part, they're the same characters, and even though the pronunciation is different, they often mean the same thing (In Japan there's the "Chinese meaning" and "Japanese meaning," but they use them both anyway), so you understand things that aren't necessarily Chinese too.

[1338 h4x0r]

I heard like the only irregular verb in Turkish is 'to be'.

It does sound like a thick, unintelligible slur when I hear people speaking it though

The cool thing is, Korea uses 'em too. And for the most part, they're the same characters, and even though the pronunciation is different, they often mean the same thing (In Japan there's the "Chinese meaning" and "Japanese meaning," but they use them both anyway), so you understand things that aren't necessarily Chinese too.

I think the hanja are all but outmoded. I understand they're used largely for decorative purposes, but I saw a few Chinese characters in a Korean math article once, so they apparently have some academic use here and there.

Kanji are based on archaic Chinese writing, yes?

[Sunshine]

Haha. Japanese only has 2 irregular verbs.

"Come" and "do."
And even those are stupidly easy.

Japanese, contrary to popular belief, is a stupidly simple language.

[Hababi]

Noway:
Cr: 2
Po: 2
Cu: 6
Ec: 3
We: 9

Hong Kong:
Cr: 2
Po: 6
Cu: 3
Ec: 1
We: 2.5

[1338 h4x0r]

Haha. Japanese only has 2 irregular verbs.

"Come" and "do."
And even those are stupidly easy.

Japanese, contrary to popular belief, is a stupidly simple language.

I ninja-edited the above post ... it was about Turkish. I'm willing to believe what you say about Japanese though, although it seems like you'd be better at that kind of thing than me

[Hababi]

Haha. Japanese only has 2 irregular verbs.

"Come" and "do."
And even those are stupidly easy.

Japanese, contrary to popular belief, is a stupidly simple language.

The alphabet is the tough part. But yeah, pronounciation isn't too difficult and the placement of parts is logical (unlike Russian).

Korean, as I understand it, is unnecessary-they speak English and Chinese.

[Iscariot]

staying in america is the most intelligent decision

rather than perpetuate a negative view of the people around you that is going to inevitably fall back upon you no matter where you live because of your social expectations, why not just try to improve your current situation where you're at

also the romantic visions that people tend to have of other nations is textbook and tourist garbage

most of the nations you're considering are no better and some are actually much worse than america

and lol at whoever said they would like to live in south korea if you like being surrounded by us military bases and living in a struggling economy with a lock down on the northern border 24/7 then yeah hey that sounds awesome

[Sunshine]

I ninja-edited the above post ... it was about Turkish. I'm willing to believe what you say about Japanese though, although it seems like you'd be better at that kind of thing than me

Haha, what kind of thing, learning Japanese? What'd give that impression?

The alphabet is the tough part. But yeah, pronounciation isn't too difficult and the placement of parts is logical (unlike Russian).

Korean, as I understand it, is unnecessary-they speak English and Chinese.

Even if they didn't -- Korean and Japanese are exactly the same in structure and all of that junk, they just have different sounds.
My dad knows Korean and when we moved to Japan he'd start mixing up Japanese and Korean words/pronunciations/readings because they're the same.

He said Arabic is surprisingly easy too, but I don't really believe him on that.

[Hababi]

It does sound like a thick, unintelligible slur when I hear people speaking it though

?

Pretty much every language you don't know does.

[Hababi]

staying in america is the most intelligent decision

rather than perpetuate a negative view of the people around you that is going to inevitably fall back upon you no matter where you live because of your social expectations, why not just try to improve your current situation where you're at

also the romantic visions that people tend to have of other nations is textbook and tourist garbage

most of the nations you're considering are no better and some are actually much worse than america

and lol at whoever said they would like to live in south korea if you like being surrounded by us military bases and living in a struggling economy with a lock down on the northern border 24/7 then yeah hey that sounds awesome

The South Korean economy is pretty good

but yeah the northern border is really dangerous and scary

but the women are beautiful
and Christianity is the largest religion and spreading

:D

[Sunshine]

Plus, I heard South Korea's just pretty cool in general. Never got a chance to visit myself, hoping to change that next year when I'm abroad in Japan :D

You can make good money being an English teacher in Asia. They're desperate for native English speakers 'cause when an Asian person teaches other Asian people how to speak English, they don't do very well, especially with pronunciation.

[1338 h4x0r]

also the romantic visions that people tend to have of other nations is textbook and tourist garbage

For a concrete example, my personal experience with Han Chinese is very good overall. It's not perfect by a long shot. There are things about their culture I disagree with. But overall, it's good.

Whatever else you can say about them, you'll never hear a Chinese person say something like "lol reading is 4 fags"


most of the nations you're considering are no better and some are actually much worse than america


That's the big foam #1 finger talking.

You can make good money being an English teacher in Asia. They're desperate for native English speakers 'cause when an Asian person teaches other Asian people how to speak English, they don't do very well, especially with pronunciation.

I've tutored a lot of people in English and though I'm a science/math major I'd love to teach English.

[Iscariot]

no that's just common sense talking you're really deluding yourself

[1338 h4x0r]

My experience doesn't lie to me

[Hababi]

Plus, I heard South Korea's just pretty cool in general. Never got a chance to visit myself, hoping to change that next year when I'm abroad in Japan :D

You can make good money being an English teacher in Asia. They're desperate for native English speakers 'cause when an Asian person teaches other Asian people how to speak English, they don't do very well, especially with pronunciation.

That's where I might end up :p

[Iscariot]

My experience doesn't lie to me

have you ever been to china

or are you basing your experience off your token chinese friend

[Sunshine]

That's where I might end up :p

Bad ***.
When I graduate I might try and land a job as a TV or newspaper journalist in Japan.
Hellzyeah multiplatform journalism with a minor in Japanese.

[1338 h4x0r]

have you ever been to china

or are you basing your experience off your token chinese friend

I have several tbh. And I know several other people from other Confucian societies, which are similar in many respects, at least in ones that are meaningful for me.

No, I haven't been there. I'd like to, I think. I don't think I'd want to live there because of the censorship (which is slowly changing due to the Internet, etc.) but since I mentioned Taiwan, which is a much more Westernized country, in the OP, that's kind of a moot point

[Iscariot]

so you actually have no real experience you just know people from that area

you're basing an entire demographic of people on your experience with a handful of americanized ones

got it

[Hababi]

I have several tbh. The Taiwanese dude I mentioned isn't even my closest Chinese friend. And I know several other people from other Confucian societies.

No, I haven't been there. I'd like to, I think. I don't think I'd want to live there because of the censorship (which is slowly changing due to the Internet, etc.) but since I mentioned Taiwan (which is a much more Westernized country) in the OP, that's kind of a moot point

Outside of Taiwan and Hong Kong, you really wouldn't want China. The pollution is terrible and yeah the censorship still sucks.

[1338 h4x0r]

you're basing an entire demographic of people on your experience with a handful of americanized ones

They're foreign students, first of all ... and I know quite a few

My intuition rarely fails me

[Hababi]

My intuition rarely fails me
Wait don't you support Obama?

Yeah you shouldn't say that.

[1338 h4x0r]

Wait don't you support Obama?

Yeah you shouldn't say that.

He's better than McBush

[Iscariot]

They're foreign students, first of all ... and I know quite a few

My intuition rarely fails me

i guess what they say about smart people having little common sense is true but ok go ahead and move to a foreign nation where your entire cultural identity will make you a social outcast all because you think american adults are immature or something

[Hababi]

He's better than McBush

Your intuition failz

[Iscariot]

a trained monkey would be better than mccain tbh

at least a trained monkey occasionally acts against the will of it's master unlike him

"what's that georgie? slander obama and take on all of your policies? yes sir!"

[Sunshine]

If McCain wants to blow **** up...which he does.
And Obama wants to try and prevent the blowing up of ****..which he does.

I'd hafta go with dar haxor on this one.

[1338 h4x0r]

i guess what they say about smart people having little common sense is true but ok go ahead and move to a foreign nation where your entire cultural identity will make you a social outcast all because you think american adults are immature or something

lol, a lot of Westerners have lived in Taiwan without feeling like social outcasts. You won't feel like an "outcast" if you're willing to accept the culture there and speak their language. Since the Chinese tradition (and Confucian tradition generally speaking) has many strengths, I'm not opposed to doing that. In fact, a lot of Taiwanese habits that some people find offensive are habits that I have myself, so, err, not such a problem

[Hababi]

a trained monkey would be better than mccain tbh

at least a trained monkey occasionally acts against the will of it's master unlike him

"what's that georgie? slander obama and take on all of your policies? yes sir!"

McCain bucks his party on global warming, campaign finance, torture, etc.

BO doesn't buck the liberals on anything. Nothing. Not one thing. He doesn't cross party lines.

[Hababi]

lol, a lot of Westerners have lived in Taiwan without feeling like social outcasts. You won't feel like an "outcast" if you're willing to accept the culture there and speak their language. Since the Chinese tradition (and Confucian tradition generally speaking) has many strengths, I'm not opposed to doing that. In fact, a lot of Taiwanese habits that some people find offensive are habits that I have myself, so, err, not such a problem

Like what?

[Iscariot]

McCain bucks his party on global warming, campaign finance, torture, etc.

BO doesn't buck the liberals on anything. Nothing. Not one thing. He doesn't cross party lines.

mccain does whatever he thinks will get him more votes because he doesn't have a real platform of his own

[Hababi]

mccain does whatever he thinks will get him more votes because he doesn't have a real platform of his own

Really you just described Obama (see: his switch on Israeli policy, multiples times, his switch on talking with dictators, etc.)

McCain has been steadfast and consistent on the war (he was right about the surge, Obama was wrong), global warming, campaign finance reform, etc.

[Iscariot]

lol ok steve i'm pretty sure you're just trolling at this point

[Sunshine]

Well..the problem with Asia is that, as a non-[Asian country specific]-person, you'll never be fully, 100% accepted. And one thing that's really kind of sad is that a lot of white people who go to Asia/Asian folks who go to other countries is that once they've been there long enough, they don't really fit in anywhere.

Like all the Japanese wives on base in Japan who were married to the American soldiers. They were still very Japanese to the other Americans, and never quite fit in at parties or whatever, but still weren't really Japanese anymore and stuck out just the same with their Japanese friends.

[1338 h4x0r]

Like what?

A few examples:

They tend to be very, very practical. A lot of Americans would find that not only strange but offensive because many Taiwanese would rather have financial stability than love.

I'm a Westerner at heart but have fully Confucian attitudes towards education, which is some of the most important common ground I share with Chinese people.

I'm personally distant until I get to know people well, which can offend a lot of people here

etc....

Well..the problem with Asia is that, as a non-[Asian country specific]-person, you'll never be fully, 100% accepted.

I'll never be fully accepted anywhere, except by a few people, so I might as well settle.

[Sunshine]

Well, alright.
Some people expect to be fully accepted if they adopt all the mannerisms/learn the language, and are sorely mistaken.
Long as you know.

[1338 h4x0r]

Well, alright.
Some people expect to be fully accepted if they adopt all the mannerisms/learn the language, and are sorely mistaken.
Long as you know.

Well ... being fully accepted by everyone, anywhere, is impossible. If I wanted that, I should tilt at windmills, too. If I can be fully accepted by a few individuals, that's good enough for me.

[Hababi]

lol ok steve i'm pretty sure you're just trolling at this point

not one bit.

[1338 h4x0r]

regardless, get this mccain/obama nonsense out of my fred

[Iskandar]

He said Arabic is surprisingly easy too, but I don't really believe him on that.It's actually one of the hardest languages for Westerners. And Steve, its grammar is very strictly formulated and regular.

Turkish isn't hard learn. It's remarkably consistent and logically agglutinating.The hard part is that nearly all of the lexicon is native Turkish words. With Swedish, on the other hand, most of the words have English cognates.

1337 H8X0R, it's cool that you know Swedish. I used to study it too. Now, Scandinavia is a great place (if you don't mind the weather) and its strong liberal tradition will be refreshing after living in the US. I prefer Norway myself, but it's still a great country to live in.

[Hababi]

Well yeah, in that way Turkish is similar to Swahili. Both are well behaved agglutinating languages with largely distinct lexicons. Neither are tonal. Neither are ambiguous like Russian. Their orthographies are not deep, unlike English.

[1338 h4x0r]

It's actually one of the hardest languages for Westerners. And Steve, its grammar is very strictly formulated and regular.
The hard part is that nearly all of the lexicon is native Turkish words - Ataturk's reforms included removing virtually all of the loanwords from the Ottoman era. So none of the vocabulary will be familiar at all. With Swedish, on the other hand, most of the words have English cognates.

1337 H8X0R, it's cool that you know Swedish. I used to study it too. Now, Scandinavia is a great place (if you don't mind the weather) and its strong liberal tradition will be refreshing after living in the US. I prefer Norway myself, but it's still a great country to live in.

That's 1338 h4x0r! I'm 1337++!

I not only "don't mind" the weather, I prefer rain, sleet and snow. More so snow than anything else.

My main concern is what sweboy said about the popular culture being the same as in the US, minus R&B.

BTW - I added you on MSN.

[Hababi]

That's 1338 h4x0r! I'm 1337++!

I not only "don't mind" the weather, I prefer rain, sleet and snow. More so snow than anything else.


Yeah, you're nuts.

Choose Iceland. Or Mongolia.

[Iskandar]

Well yeah, in that way Turkish is similar to Swahili. Both are well behaved agglutinating languages with largely distinct lexicons. Neither are tonal. Neither are ambiguous like Russian. Their orthographies are not deep, unlike English.Arabic has a phonemic orthography too. and is not tonal. The features that make it hard have to do with vocabulary (almost entirely native roots) and also a different writing system. And as you said, agglutinative languages tend to be regular. Arabic and Russian are fusional.:-/

I'm convinced Chinese is the most difficult language on the planet, though, which is a big reason why I'd never want to live in East Asia.

[Der Übermensch]

Well, if I had to leave the US, Switzerland is my #1.

[Iskandar]

I don't get the hype over Switzerland. Sure, its decentralized political system is great, but the Nordic welfare states attract me a lot more.

[Volumnius Flush]

I would go to Canada. The weather is great up there and they speak English!

[Iskandar]

The weather is extremely hot right now. 32 tomorrow. I'm going to melt.

[Sammy_L_D]

My country rules, but the municipal, provincial, and federal governments are absolutely useless.

It's also a country that if you are a child rapist and murderer, but claim "insanity", there's a good chance you might get nothing more than two years of therapy and six months probation.






Okay, exaggerating, but our justice system is hilarious at best.

And what's this about the weather being great? Maybe compared to the Southern States, but it's almost 30 Celsius right now.

[1338 h4x0r]

I'm convinced Chinese is the most difficult language on the planet, though, which is a big reason why I'd never want to live in East Asia.

difficult, yes, impossible, hardly

there are of course the tones, which is kind of a pain, but they're distinct and even I can distinguish them to some degree by now. the main thing is the writing system ... and even well-educated Chinese sometimes draw a blank when trying to think of an uncommon character. I've seen it happen!

the grammar is not difficult at all

and Korean is alphabetic btw, so it's not like they're all the same :)

[Der Übermensch]

I don't get the hype over Switzerland. Sure, its decentralized political system is great, but the Nordic welfare states attract me a lot more.

Because I like the staunch individualism and stubborn character of the Swiss. They are a very conservative people who understand what that actually means. Keep out of our business and we'll keep out of yours.

[Iskandar]

That's what the Swedes think too. But their strong commitment to public welfare requires that they intervene in certain ways, like taxation.
the main thing is the writing system ... and even well-educated Chinese sometimes draw a blank when trying to think of an uncommon character. I've seen it happen!Not unlike English spelling. But you've had your whole life to master English spelling.
the grammar is not difficult at allIt's sort of like English grammar, actually. No inflections or cases, it's all about word order.
and Korean is alphabetic btw, so it's not like they're all the sameYeah, I know. But Korean is hard for Westerners too.

[Der Übermensch]

That's what the Swedes think too. But their strong commitment to public welfare requires that they intervene in certain ways, like taxation.
Sweden also appeals to me, but I am confident I would learn German a lot easier than Swedish, even if it is the Swiss' strange dialect.

[Iskandar]

Sweden also appeals to me, but I am confident I would learn German a lot easier than Swedish, even if it is the Swiss' strange dialect.Why? German is legendary for having a difficult grammar.

[1338 h4x0r]

Not unlike English spelling. But you've had your whole life to master English spelling.

Well, with an alphabet, you can at least approximate the word. I can tell what someone means if he writes 'exagerate'. No such luck with ideograms.

Forgetting characters: it happens. If I can learn to speak Mandarin well, I will have already outdone a lot of Westerners who live in Taiwan! Also, most of the local population have an iffy, but functional command of English and in my experience with tutoring English, I've learned to mime very efficiently.

Yeah, I know. But Korean is hard for Westerners too.

word, but it's in a different group altogether

[Volumnius Flush]

And what's this about the weather being great? Maybe compared to the Southern States, but it's almost 30 Celsius right now.

Must be a warm spring. That's about what it is here in Texas. Global warming's a bitch. You used to have nice weather at least. But to be real, 30 is nothing in Texas!

Try 42 and up!

[BridgeToSolace]

I'm a Westerner at heart but have fully Confucian attitudes towards education, which is some of the most important common ground I share with Chinese people.
.

If your idea of good education is being lectured at for 8 hours a day in classes of 60-100 people, then you have a lot in common with the Chinese people.

If you think that it's a good idea to have your entire future hinged on a single test, and no high school for anyone but the wealthy, you have a lot in common with the chinese people.

Seriously, their education system is horribly flawed and destructive.

(this is from the perspective of my friend who spent a few months there as an exchange student)

[Der Übermensch]

Why? German is legendary for having a difficult grammar.

English is my primary language, and the vocab is greatly Germanic in origin.

[1338 h4x0r]

If your idea of good education is being lectured at for 8 hours a day in classes of 60-100 people, then you have a lot in common with the Chinese people.

I can see myself doing that. :lol:

If you think that it's a good idea to have your entire future hinged on a single test, and no high school for anyone but the wealthy, you have a lot in common with the chinese people.

But that's not truly Confucian at all. He believed that people should not be distinguished by the class they were born into, but by their efforts. He viewed education as an equalizing power. I think you're confusing the system and the attitudes of most people in it.


Seriously, their education system is horribly flawed and destructive.

It has many faults ... and the worst of it is the rote memorization. I don't know how much the Taiwanese education system differs exactly, but I would give odds that there are already some significant distinctions. Also, many East Asian countries are undergoing a lot of educational reforms. Read more here, it's very interesting!

http://www.time.com/time/asia/features/asian_education/cover.html

English is my primary language, and the vocab is greatly Germanic in origin.

(Modern Germanic) Scandinavian languages are closer to Modern English than anything else, for various reasons.

[BridgeToSolace]

But that's not truly Confucian at all. He believed that people should not be distinguished by the class they were born into, but by their efforts. He viewed education as an equalizing power. I think you're confusing the system and the attitudes of most people in it.

In the chinese system, you need to pass a test to get into highschool, and it can be very expensive to get in. Basically, if you're born working in a farmers market, you're going to stay there.

It has many faults ... and the worst of it is the rote memorization.

The biggest fault is the amount of time these kids spend in class. They go from very early to late in the afternoon, AND THEN GO BACK TO SCHOOL for a mandatory study hall for three hours. It's ridiculous.

The worst thing you can do is steal someone's social life. If they don't want one, that's okay, but you should never steal with opportunity from them.

I don't know how much the Taiwanese education system differs exactly,

Yeah, I have no idea how different it is >_>

[dei]

I'd move to Sweden if it wasn't full of Nazis.

[Volumnius Flush]

I'd move to Sweden if it wasn't full of Nazis.

I'd move to Canada if my family would go with me.

[Jude]

Why? German is legendary for having a difficult grammar.

It's not really that bad especially if you know English because they're so similar deep down

Don't go to Japan just don't
Only anime nerds do that

[1338 h4x0r]

In the chinese system, you need to pass a test to get into highschool, and it can be very expensive to get in. Basically, if you're born working in a farmers market, you're going to stay there.

Yes, but again, the fault is with the governmental system, not with the culture itself. Many Chinese people want a lot of Western reforms deep inside, in all aspects of life.

I'm really talking about the general value, rather than disdain towards education in their society. I remember I was programming Python in front of a few friends and they were almost like ... genuflecting. I could hardly believe it. While I was with a group of Koreans, namedropping King Sejong and reading about linear programming while I was at Burger King elevated me from 'white guy I don't really know' to 'almost one of us' in just a few seconds

So yeah basically me being selfish again.


The worst thing you can do is steal someone's social life. If they don't want one, that's okay, but you should never steal with opportunity from them.

Fair enough.

I'd move to Sweden if it wasn't full of Nazis.

Sweden is a truly egalitarian country. They're the only country I know that has a half-black Neo-Nazi (Jackie Arklöv). Even you can be a white supremacist murderer in Sweden.

/brushes away tears

[dei]

I think I will have nose surgery and paint myself white.

[BridgeToSolace]

Yes, but again, the fault is with the governmental system, not with the culture itself. Many Chinese people want a lot of Western reforms deep inside, in all aspects of life.

I'm really talking about the general value, rather than disdain towards education in their society.

Yes, they value education in the abstract. Very much so. Just for the wrong reasons. It's not "You need to be educated so that you can be happy" it's "You need to be education so that you can get a good job and honor your family/country/whatever."

Or maybe that's Japan. They're fairly similar in education, methinks.

We disdain education in this country, but that's a consequence of an education system that destroys our desire to learn. Crazy, huh? I do think that you're getting your experience from a certain group of asians and then generalizing it to the whole culture, though. There's always going to be anti-intellectuals wherever you go.

[1338 h4x0r]

Yes, they value education in the abstract. Very much so. Just for the wrong reasons. It's not "You need to be educated so that you can be happy" it's "You need to be education so that you can get a good job and honor your family/country/whatever."

I have to disagree strongly. I've read about and personally met quite a few people from Confucian background who genuinely enjoy education for its own good. For example: a Vietnamese woman who is studying French and advanced calculus despite the fact that she intends to be an accountant. I have another friend who I was researching signal processing for ... he doesn't even need that, but wanted to 'relearn' since it's a difficult subject and he forgot about it after he took his master's degree. And another good friend who wants to learn Python from me, who is in a non-scientific field and doesn't even consider himself very academic. Another I know who had a hell of a time when she had to study operations research for her business degree in China, but thought it was good that I like it.

True, not every East Asian is very scholarly. I wouldn't claim that. But there is a strong and genuine respect for education there.


We disdain education in this country, but that's a consequence of an education system that destroys our desire to learn. Crazy, huh?


I think there's more to it than that, since there is even malice towards intellectuals here. It's not just like "lol books r ghey".

I do think that you're getting your experience from a certain group of asians and then generalizing it to the whole culture, though.

It's basically a fair statement. And I try to consider these kinds of judgments carefully.

There's always going to be anti-intellectuals wherever you go.

Yes, but in East Asia, they are exceedingly rare.

[BridgeToSolace]

I think there's more to it than that, since there is even malice towards intellectuals here. It's not just like "lol books r ghey"..

I do not see this.

[1338 h4x0r]

I do not see this.

It's subtle once you're out of high school, but it's still there. Consider the kind of people that Stephen Colbert satires, for example.

[Der Übermensch]

(Modern Germanic) Scandinavian languages are closer to Modern English than anything else, for various reasons.

I've tried Swedish and German. German was confusing, but Swedish gives a head ache just looking at.. Å...? wtf?

[1338 h4x0r]

Det är inte speciellt svårt.

(Es ist nicht besonders schwer.)

[pedro durruti]

You should go to Sweden, that would be cool if you don't mind sweden's climate. Why would you be on a no fly list?? Just go to Sweden. If you're an introvert then learn how to become extroverted. you know, without relinquishing your actual introvert nature. anyways there are extroverts everywhere and they usually go to extrovert-like places.

[spitfirejunky]

Norway is supposed to be like the best place to live
Canada has a lot of the pros of America with few of the cons but also lacks a lot of the bigger pros
Israel has an awesome climate and is mad chill (people **** on the beach all over the place) but you have to put up with psychotic zionists
Palestine is pretty nice if you don't mind living under military occupation
Turkey, well I only know about Istanbul but Istanbul is sweet as hell, it's like New York but with Turkish women who are incredibly hot...but the language is ridiculous hard to learn
Egypt, stay the hell away

Out of curiosity, which to you think is better, Egypt or Palestine?

[Hababi]

I'm convinced Chinese is the most difficult language on the planet, though, which is a big reason why I'd never want to live in East Asia.


The writing system requires rote memory of thousands of symbols, but if you can get the hang of the tonal aspect of it, speaking it isn't a huge challenge.

For me, the most difficult languages are the ones filled with sounds that are very foreign. All the implosives of Chadic languages, ugh. I can't do them.


I don't get the hype over Switzerland. Sure, its decentralized political system is great, but the Nordic welfare states attract me a lot more.


Why, do you plan on going on welfare :p



and Korean is alphabetic btw, so it's not like they're all the same


Vietnamese is, too, with a Roman based alphabet.



Anyway, if you want cold dreary weather and a detachment from western culture, I'm absolutely serious that Iceland is your number one option.

[Light Fantastic]

ok quick guide to countries, based on these variables:



um what was that were you just guessing the figures because most most of the measurable ones are wrong

[Hababi]

um what was that were you just guessing the figures because most most of the measurable ones are wrong

like what

[Jude]

Out of curiosity, which to you think is better, Egypt or Palestine?

Palestine

Egypt pros: Cool tourist sites
There are some really nice people if you actually manage to penetrate past the 5000-year old tourism culture

Egypt Cons: dirtiest place I've ever been
99% of people you meet are trying to hustle you, con you, or get money out of you somehow
diarrhea
can't drink the water
Weather is horrible except in winter

Palestine pros: beautiful landscape
really cool and hospitable people
Taybeh beer
Dead Sea and Mediterranean beaches within short distance

Palestine cons: military occupation
It rains all goddam winter long and in summer gets damn hot
settlers, checkpoints, roadblocks, IDF incursions, and they are making the Palestinians miserable so you'll have to take part in their suffering if you want to live there, it's just a fact of life
the culture is really family-based and everyone kind of knows everybody else's entire genealogy so I imagine it could be really hard for an individual foreigner to fit it

Tbh I'm just more attached to Palestine because I lived with a host family there whereas I stayed in hotels and did mainly touristy stuff in Egypt but I'd still say it's better
And to be totally objective you'd probably prefer to live in Israel because it isn't under military rule, the culture is basically a mix of American and European hedonism except in Old Jerusalem, and there's lots of other Americans there and anyway, you can go visit the West Bank anytime you want some Taybeh

[Light Fantastic]

like what

well the scale is crazy to start with considering you put the canadian, uk and swedish economies on the same scale as the others which dont even come close

like the uk economy is a 3.5 and the canadian a 3 on zero scale - ignoring the fact that the uk economy is probably better than the canadian one for a moment seeing as its a minuscule error compared to the others - malta is a 4 and rwanda a 7? despite the fact that the uk/canadian economies are many hundreds of times greater in various measures

so you think the difference between the uk and canada is .5, which is the same as the difference between the uk and malta in your estimation, which is insane

[Hababi]

well the scale is crazy to start with considering you put the canadian, uk and swedish economies on the same scale as the others which dont even come close

I was basing it on ease of getting a decent paying job (particularly for American ex-pats) relative to the PPP of the country, not the overall size of the economy, as well as cost of living etc.


so you think the difference between the uk and canada is .5, which is the same as the difference between the uk and malta?

There are other factors that make Malta's economy desirable. The problem with Malta is that it's extremly difficult to get a working permit. But it's predicated on achieving this.

[Der Übermensch]

Det är inte speciellt svårt.

(Es ist nicht besonders schwer.)

I can understand half the german, and infer the rest. I'm lost with the Swedish.

[Iskandar]

I've tried Swedish and German. German was confusing, but Swedish gives a head ache just looking at.. Å...? wtf?It's like a German O. Easy.
English is my primary language, and the vocab is greatly Germanic in origin.Same with Swedish. And the grammar is very close to that of English. It's not as hard as it looks.
Det är inte speciellt svårt.That is not especially difficult?

I'm rusty.

[Mr. Ron]

Denmark!

[Iskandar]

Denmark is really cool but Danish is kind of wacky. Norwegian and Swedish are easier.

Plus Lego!!!

[Mr. Ron]

Switzerland!

[Hababi]

Yeah language sucks, economy isn't that great, etc.

[Mr. Ron]

Last I checked Denmark's economy was good?

[Hababi]

Switzerland!

Biggest cowards on Earth. Continues to make their money by catering to every dictator in the world.

[Iskandar]

Your knowledge of economics is wacky if you don't think Canada's economy is good right now. Alberta is booming.

[Hababi]

Your knowledge of economics is wacky if you don't think Canada's economy is good right now. Alberta is booming.

I was talking about Denmark

Yeah the good areas of Canada (Alberta primarily) are doing well.

[Mr. Ron]

Biggest cowards on Earth. Continues to make their money by catering to every dictator in the world.
Steve, stop.

[Iskandar]

I was talking about Denmark

Yeah the good areas of Canada (Alberta primarily) are doing well.All of Canada is. And Denmark has one of the highest standards of living in the world so I have no idea what you're talking about.

Certainly light-years ahead of Rwanda (shudder).

[Mr. Ron]

All of Canada is. And Denmark has one of the highest standards of living in the world so I have no idea what you're talking about.

Certainly light-years ahead of Rwanda (shudder).

Don't you understand Alex? They're cowards. Thats right, every single man, woman and child living in the geographic location are cowards.

[Hababi]

Steve, stop.

It's the truth. Switzerland and France specializes in sweetheart deals with terrible dictators. Come, buy property, invest your money.


Certainly light-years ahead of Rwanda (shudder).


They still are a nonentity.

[Iskandar]

Canada will not stand for claims of cowardice. We're peacekeepers, dammit!

[Mr. Ron]

It's the truth. Switzerland and France specializes in sweetheart deals with terrible dictators. Come, buy property, invest your money.



They still are a nonentity.

Steve, are you even aware of our history with dictators? Oh wait, I'm sure you'll find some way to justify us helping terrorists somehow. :rolleyes:

[dei]

America can do no wrong. Except elect Democrats to office, of course.

[Danish]

It's the truth. Switzerland and France specializes in sweetheart deals with terrible dictators. Come, buy property, invest your money.

So do the US and Canada. Sounds to me like the pot is calling the kettle black again...

[1338 h4x0r]

You should go to Sweden, that would be cool if you don't mind sweden's climate. Why would you be on a no fly list?? Just go to Sweden. If you're an introvert then learn how to become extroverted. you know, without relinquishing your actual introvert nature. anyways there are extroverts everywhere and they usually go to extrovert-like places.

Why would I be on the 'no fly' list? Good question. Since I like to use logic and reason to solve problems, and don't take drugs, I don't know. But since I was threatened with federal investigation without cause (don't care to explain), I just have a sneaking suspicion.

And I'm not good at extroversion.


Anyway, if you want cold dreary weather and a detachment from western culture, I'm absolutely serious that Iceland is your number one option.

Iceland is a European country wtf

I can understand half the german, and infer the rest. I'm lost with the Swedish.

Det - it
är - is ('vara', to be, has one present tense conjugation, 'är', which resembles 'are' and of course looks better with 'du' or 'vi')
inte - not
speciellt - especially
svårt - difficult (cognate 'schwer')

I'm rusty.

Well yes.

Biggest cowards on Earth. Continues to make their money by catering to every dictator in the world.

Shut up.

[Jude]

It's the truth. Switzerland and France specializes in sweetheart deals with terrible dictators.



I can think of a bigger country that does that too can you guess what country it is

[Hababi]

I can think of a bigger country that does that too can you guess what country it is

Mmm hmmm how many dictators have plum properties in America? How many have fortunes stored in American banks?

None. Because America doesn't make fortunes that way. Switzerland and France do. But of course hate America first goons like you ignore that.


Iceland is a European country wtf


With an isolated culture.

[1338 h4x0r]

Mmm hmmm how many dictators have plum properties in America? How many have fortunes stored in American banks?

None. Because America doesn't make fortunes that way. Switzerland and France do. But of course hate America first goons like you ignore that.


http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/US_ThirdWorld/dictators.html

:lol:

With an isolated culture.

Nah, only the Faroes are really cut off

[Hababi]

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/US_ThirdWorld/dictators.html

:lol:f

I asked for a list of dictators who have fortunes stored in US banks, and loads of property in the US. You know, like Teodoro Obiang does in France.

That list looks like it was written by Totah. Just looking at ONE entry, Amin, and it's full of boldfaced lies. Amin hated the British, HATED Israel, and embraced Palestinian terrorists. So nice try.

[1338 h4x0r]

Idi Amin was also capricious and batshit insane

Why are you narrowly focused on who stores money where?

What about the other dictators on that list?

[Hababi]

Idi Amin was also capricious and batshit insane

Apparently the author of that webpage is, too.


Why are you narrowly focused on who stores money where?

Nothing says "I love you" like "COME BUY OUR BEST PROPERTY AND INVEST YOUR MONEY"


What about the other dictators on that list?

What, you want me to tackle more of this deranged imbecile's lies?

[1338 h4x0r]

For instance, did we support Suharto?

[ ] yes
[ ] no

[Hababi]

For instance, did we support Suharto?

[ ] yes
[ ] no

Every major power supports some strategically important dictators. Not all of them welcome the investment and land purchases of every dime store dictator in the world. No, Switzerland and France specialize in that :)

[1338 h4x0r]

Every major power supports some strategically important dictators. Not all of them welcome the investment and land purchases of every dime store dictator in the world. No, Switzerland and France specialize in that :)

So explain how one is ethically worse than the other

In particular, I see you have no problem with Suharto slaughtering the Christians

Also

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/Rumsfeld-Hussein.jpg

[Hababi]

So explain how one is ethically worse than the other

One is necessary, the other is not.

[1338 h4x0r]

In the case of Suharto, it was all about profit

You're not making a convincing case, Steve

[Danish]

Every major power supports some strategically important dictators. Not all of them welcome the investment and land purchases of every dime store dictator in the world. No, Switzerland and France specialize in that :)

Well, you aren't a French citizen or a Swiss citizen, so your ability to actually affect change there is limited to international solidarity work.

I would think most people would be also outraged by injustice carried out in their name. With US foreign policy, you are better positioned to challenge that injustice.

And that's why you perplex me.

[Smokey D]

I love the "every major power accommodates dictators but the specific ways which France and Switzerland accommodates them is worse than giving material and political support" bit.

And it's pretty retarded to base your assessment of the standard of living based on esoteric foreign policy, if you can even call it that.

But also, Haxxor, basing your assessment of Asian culture on a perception of Confucian ideas is a little weird. Confucianism went out of date in 1911.

[Sunshine]

Yeah, I know. But Korean is hard for Westerners too.

...no it's not.
It's just like Japanese.
And Japanese is simple as hell.

The only people who have problems learning it are people who don't understand that it's a language. There have always been people in all of my Japanese classes who would memorize the phrases as-were and spit them out like robots instead of trying to understand and manipulate the language as needed.

[1338 h4x0r]

But also, Haxxor, basing your assessment of Asian culture on a perception of Confucian ideas is a little weird. Confucianism went out of date in 1911.

The concepts remain influential in daily life.

[BridgeToSolace]

There have always been people in all of my Japanese classes who would memorize the phrases as-were and spit them out like robots instead of trying to understand and manipulate the language as needed.

I'm curious how you would advise doing the latter without falling into the trap of the former. I took spanish for a few years and was thoroughly uninterested, so I'm used to memorization.

If I have to take a language in college I'd like to be japanese, since I find the culture interesting. What makes you say that it's easy, though?

And do you learn in romaji first and then go to kanji?

[Smokey D]

In a vague sense, maybe. But it doesn't really make much sense to call Asian cultures Confucian just like it no longer makes sense to call European culture Christian.


...no it's not.
It's just like Japanese.
And Japanese is simple as hell.

You're like the only person to think that, though. It's well-documented that on average, Korean and Japanese require the most hours of input before fluency is attained. At least for Europeans.

That you're particularly gifted at languages doesn't make it easy for everybody else.

[1338 h4x0r]

In a vague sense, maybe. But it doesn't really make much sense to call Asian cultures Confucian just like it no longer makes sense to call European culture Christian.

Religion =/= philosophy

[Smokey D]

Okay but that doesn't change what I'm saying. There's a lot more to modern Asian cultures than blind repetition of Confucian values.

[1338 h4x0r]

A good number of my posts earlier in this thread confirm, not deny this assertion. Please read all of them.

[Sunshine]

I'm curious how you would advise doing the latter without falling into the trap of the former. I took spanish for a few years and was thoroughly uninterested, so I'm used to memorization.

If I have to take a language in college I'd like to be japanese, since I find the culture interesting. What makes you say that it's easy, though?

And do you learn in romaji first and then go to kanji?

Naw, it's romaji, then hiragana [their basic, Japanese alphabet], then katakana [it directly corresponds with hiragana, but is only used for foreign words, since the Japanese don't feel like making up their own words for stuff and tend to jack words from other languages, mainly English], and THEN kanji. Which can suck my non-existent-nuts. **** a bunch of kanji, man. Seriously. When I say "easy," I mean to speak.

I say it's easy because the rules are pretty simple. There are only 2 irregular verbs in the whole language, and even those are pretty simple.

Like, lets see, a basic Japanese sentence.

[Subject] (if there is one) - [everything else] - [verb].
Each section of the sentence is separated by a particle. I don't really think particles have an English counterpart, but that's OK. They help to make the word before them [they're called "post-positions," much like English "pre-positions" I guess] mean a particular thing.


Atashi wa 18 sai desu.
[I] [18-years-old] [am].

Atashi no neko wa kawaii desu.
[My cat] [cute] [is].

Two very basic examples of Japanese sentences. The particle "wa" is a general particle, bringing attention to the fact that "I" is the subject.
The particle "no" makes atashi possessive, and the word that follows [neko, cat] is what I possess.

"Tabemasu" is the polite, standard form of "to eat."
Taberu is the dictionary form, which can be used in regular conversation between friends. Everything is built off of the root, tabe-.
Tabeta - past, plain form.
Tabete - non-past, plain form.
Tabetai - "want" form [want to eat]
etc.

Atashi no neko wa tabeta.
[My cat] [ate].

Atashi no neko o tabeta.
[I] [ate my cat].

Particle "o" marks what exactly you ate. Particle wa, again, just means that the cat is the subject of my sentence.

I don't know. That might make little-to-no sense, it does take more than a few dumb sentences to learn a language, hah.


You're like the only person to think that, though. It's well-documented that on average, Korean and Japanese require the most hours of input before fluency is attained. At least for Europeans.

That you're particularly gifted at languages doesn't make it easy for everybody else.

Haha. I actually blow at languages. Took Spanish for 6 years, K-5th grade, don't know a lick of it.

[BridgeToSolace]

I don't know. That might make little-to-no sense, it does take more than a few dumb sentences to learn a language, hah.


You lost me a bit with the tabemasu part, but most of it made sense.

I found it interesting :D

Thanks, mate.

[Jude]

One is necessary, the other is not.

bahhahahahahahahah

Listen it wouldn't kill you to admit that America has done some evil **** in its time would it

Or maybe it would

[Iskandar]

...no it's not.
It's just like Japanese.
And Japanese is simple as hell.

The only people who have problems learning it are people who don't understand that it's a language. There have always been people in all of my Japanese classes who would memorize the phrases as-were and spit them out like robots instead of trying to understand and manipulate the language as needed.Category III: Languages which are exceptionally difficult for native English speakers
88 weeks (second year of study in-country)
(2200 class hours)
Arabic
Cantonese
Mandarin *Japanese
KoreanSource: http://www.nvtc.gov/lotw/months/november/learningExpectations.html

The difficulty associated with Japanese and Korean (and Chinese, and Arabic) doesn't come from their grammar. It comes from the totally unfamilar (besides loanwords) vocabulary and semantics.

That and the Japanese writing system is no picnic. Romaji is for noobs. You can't claim to be fluent in Japanese if you haven't mastered both syllabaries as well as kanji.

[Sunshine]

And it only takes a day to master both hiragana and katakana.
Kanji..you pick it up as you go along.

[Jude]

I'm surprised to find Arabic on that list of hard languages because so far I'm finding it quite easy, almost easier than German

Although I guess maybe we haven't gotten into the real hard stuff yet but still

Then again maybe it's because I'm a linguistic prodigy

Also having to learn a spoken dialect in addition to standard, just in order to be able to be taken seriously, adds another challenge I suppose.

Btw how do you type Arabic characters on a English keyboard?

[Sunshine]

Eh, my dad said it was easy.

Also, that "list" and "study" is bullshit, because it depends on people inparticular. Everybody has langauges that they'd be better at, the Army gives a test on it. Both my parents took it -- for my mom, Russian was her best second language [then Polish and Serbo-Croation], and for my dad, Arabic and Korean. For me, Japanese is easier than Spanish. Etc.

[Aaron]

Australia
Pros:
Temperate weather all year [20c is a winters day]
High standard of living
Low levels of crime
Good public transport both locally and intercity
Hot girls

Cons:
High standard of living [cost]
Low level of unemployment; close job market

[stevensonmat2]

I think high living standard is a pro, but the high cost would be a con.

Yes I am splitting hairy hairs :p

[Volumnius Flush]

Texas

1. Great weather!
2. Great chicks!
3. Great conservative state government!
4. Great music scene!
5. Great tasting tap water!
6. The Alamo!
7. Nice urban centers and top rate universities!
8. Ross Perot and Mark Cuban!
9. Sailing down the Guadalupe!
10. Ozzfest!
11. Friendly illegal population!
12. Cheap and readily available illicit substances!
13. Churches on every corner!
14. Housing market impervious to the mortgage crisis!
15. And finally, cheap sex!

[Chu]

I haven't read much of this thread, but have you considered Australia?

I noticed in another thread you mentioned Alan Kay, now few people know this name (despite how important it is), so I'm guessing you have some familiarity with Smalltalk?
If so, you probably know how much you are worth as a [good] developer, especially to a company like Microsoft (Who primarily use Smalltalk for their development), there are a few companies in Australia who operate on the same ideal (Rather than spending so much on a couple of C/C++ devs, let's just get 1 very good Smalltalk developer).

There are some very good Australian universities (at least with respect to DMS, DCS etc. studies), ANU, UoM and UoS are 3 off the top of my head, but I'm sure there are other Australian universities that are just as good.

[Aaron]

UOW! Woo.

[1338 h4x0r]

Texas

1. Great weather!
2. Great chicks!
3. Great conservative state government!
4. Great music scene!
5. Great tasting tap water!
6. The Alamo!
7. Nice urban centers and top rate universities!
8. Ross Perot and Mark Cuban!
9. Sailing down the Guadalupe!
10. Ozzfest!
11. Friendly illegal population!
12. Cheap and readily available illicit substances!
13. Churches on every corner!
14. Housing market impervious to the mortgage crisis!
15. And finally, cheap sex!

Pass.

I haven't read much of this thread, but have you considered Australia?

I noticed in another thread you mentioned Alan Kay, now few people know this name (despite how important it is), so I'm guessing you have some familiarity with Smalltalk?
If so, you probably know how much you are worth as a [good] developer, especially to a company like Microsoft (Who primarily use Smalltalk for their development), there are a few companies in Australia who operate on the same ideal (Rather than spending so much on a couple of C/C++ devs, let's just get 1 very good Smalltalk developer).

There are some very good Australian universities (at least with respect to DMS, DCS etc. studies), ANU, UoM and UoS are 3 off the top of my head, but I'm sure there are other Australian universities that are just as good.

I had no idea Microsoft used Smalltalk?!

I only know about Smalltalk at a superficial level. I admire Kay as a computer scientist.

[Iskandar]

And it only takes a day to master both hiragana and katakana.I highly doubt that. It didn't take me a day to master the Arabic alphabet, which is a lot simpler than two whole syllabaries.
I'm surprised to find Arabic on that list of hard languages because so far I'm finding it quite easy, almost easier than German

Although I guess maybe we haven't gotten into the real hard stuff yet but stillHow good is your Standard Arabic? Because it's a lot more difficult than a spoken dialect. Due to being a written language, the grammatical rules are very strict, if you haven't discovered that already.
Btw how do you type Arabic characters on a English keyboard?You have to go into Control Panel and add a font. Then you press alt+shift to access it. بسم الله الرحمان الرحيم

[dei]

I'd rather be homeless on the streets of LA than live anywhere in Texas.

[Volumnius Flush]

I'd rather be homeless on the streets of LA than live anywhere in Texas.

But you have to admit I compiled a great list.


1. Great weather!
2. Great chicks!
3. Great conservative state government!
4. Great music scene!
5. Great tasting tap water!
6. The Alamo!
7. Nice urban centers and top rate universities!
8. Ross Perot and Mark Cuban!
9. Sailing down the Guadalupe!
10. Ozzfest!
11. Friendly illegal population!
12. Cheap and readily available illicit substances!
13. Churches on every corner!
14. Housing market impervious to the mortgage crisis!
15. And finally, cheap sex!

[Chu]

I had no idea Microsoft used Smalltalk?!

I only know about Smalltalk at a superficial level. I admire Kay as a computer scientist.
Of course they're going to use the best of the best.

If you can effectively use Smalltalk, you are the best of the best.
Very small market to be in, but if you are good at it, you are payed accordingly.

[1338 h4x0r]

And there's a large market for that in Australia? Hmm

OO programming isn't really that hard. Even the metaclass stuff isn't too bad. I don't use Smalltalk because I can't use Vim to edit the source.

[dei]

1. No.
2. Great if you like fat chicks.
3. Conservatism is bad.
4. Maybe.
5. I don't trust tap.
6. Who gives a ****?
7. Doubt it.
8. No.
9. No.
10. Ozzfest is pretty cool if you like shitty music.
11. OK.
12. No.
13. That's terrible.
14. No.
15. No.

[Smokey D]

Eh, my dad said it was easy.

Also, that "list" and "study" is bullshit, because it depends on people inparticular. Everybody has langauges that they'd be better at, the Army gives a test on it. Both my parents took it -- for my mom, Russian was her best second language [then Polish and Serbo-Croation], and for my dad, Arabic and Korean. For me, Japanese is easier than Spanish. Etc.

Okay but the point is that on average Japanese, Arabic and Korean require the most hours. Sure there are some people who achieve fluency quicker. but they are the exception, not the norm.

Even French, which is easy compared to those languages, requires close attention to grammar if it's not your mother tongue.

[1338 h4x0r]

1. No.
2. Great if you like fat chicks.
3. Conservatism is bad.
4. Maybe.
5. I don't trust tap.
6. Who gives a ****?
7. Doubt it.
8. No.
9. No.
10. Ozzfest is pretty cool if you like shitty music.
11. OK.
12. No.
13. That's terrible.
14. No.
15. No.

Tap water is fine

[Volumnius Flush]

1. No.
2. Great if you like fat chicks.
3. Conservatism is bad.
4. Maybe.
5. I don't trust tap.
6. Who gives a ****?
7. Doubt it.
8. No.
9. No.
10. Ozzfest is pretty cool if you like shitty music.
11. OK.
12. No.
13. That's terrible.
14. No.
15. No.

Well I have to be real, you're right about 1.
2. We have some very good looking chicks in Texas. They are not at all fat. Some are.
3. Conservatism is great!
4. More like positively!
5. Whatever.
6. Ozzy Osbourne for one!
7. UT journalism school is one of the top in the nation.
8. Ross Perot was one of the greatest salesman of the 20th century.
10. Hatebreed, SF, KsE, hardly shitty.
11. It's true.
12. Yes it's true. I would know.
13. It's great. Salvation is free!
14. Yes.
15. You're just mad because you are getting it for free. Something that is free is never as good as the kind you shell out good money for!

[1338 h4x0r]

Killswitch Engage

hahahaha

oh god and the rest of your post just slaughters me

[Reaganista]

stupidest reason ever for wanting to leave a country

[1338 h4x0r]

/considers making a Reaganista-based Markov chain

[Chu]

And there's a large market for that in Australia? Hmm

OO programming isn't really that hard. Even the metaclass stuff isn't too bad. I don't use Smalltalk because I can't use Vim to edit the source.
There's a massive market for consultancy in Australia at the moment, of any kind.

I used Smalltalk as an example, in a hierarchy of programming languages, Smalltalk developers probably earn the most money, although there are fewer of course (Quite a lot fewer!). So if your interest is in money, Smalltalk is where it is at.

That said, Smalltalk is not a language I would use to teach "new" programmers. (If you want to become a programmer to earn money, use an imperative language like C, or C++).

There is a difference in the above 2 paragraphs, if you think I am contradicting myself in what I'm saying, just re-read it.

[1338 h4x0r]

Well, that's strange

Smalltalk pays the most and yet ... it was designed to be used by middle-school kids

What an age we live in

[Jude]

Cons:
High standard of living [cost]
Low level of unemployment; close job market

You forgot "the entire population seems to be rabidly and unrepentingly racist at least every news story I hear from Australia indicates this"

You have to go into Control Panel and add a font. Then you press alt+shift to access it. بسم الله الرحمان الرحيم

How do I add the font?

and that font is ridiculously small and painful to look at :(

[1338 h4x0r]

You forgot "the entire population seems to be rabidly and unrepentingly racist at least every news story I hear from Australia indicates this"


Well I'm a white Anglo

And if no one else hangs out with the non-Anglos, I will!

[Jude]

Well I'm a white Anglo

And if no one else hangs out with the non-Anglos, I will!

Haha I was kidding man

It does seem that way though, every news story I hear from there is either about Steve Irwin or Australians being racist against someone

[Volumnius Flush]

Killswitch Engage

hahahaha

oh god and the rest of your post just slaughters me

KsE were good in 2002. Whether you admit it or not. It is one of those guilty pleasures for some people.

[Chu]

You forgot "the entire population seems to be rabidly and unrepentingly racist at least every news story I hear from Australia indicates this"
Not at all...

It's like me saying every news story from the U.S. is about fat morons, and as much as I would love to believe there is a whole country of fat morons out there, I just know it's not true.

[1338 h4x0r]

Well I understand that's a significant problem, but I guess I could serve some role there b/c I hang out with a lot of foreigners at my school and will probably continue to do so in the future.

Problem with living in Australia is brutal hot weather and dangerous fauna. I'd have to avoid the north of the country where most of the really nasty spiders live.

[Iskandar]

How do I add the font?Go into:

Control Panel
Date, Time, Language and Regional Options
Add Other Languages
Install files for complex scripts and right-to-left languages
(skip if it's already checked)
Apply

then

Details
Add...

then select an Arabic keyboard from any country, they're all the same.

Then Apply, and you're done. You can switch to Arabic with alt+shift. The little EN by the toolbar should change to AR when you do that.

Let me know how it goes.
and that font is ridiculously small and painful to look at :(Get used to it. Arabic always is on computers.

[Smokey D]

Everyone avoids the north of Australia.

[Chu]

Ctrl+Mouse-Wheel = Bigger/Smaller Font.

Edit: The south is awesome though! We get brutal (Well, not Canadian brutal) winters, and the summers are perfectly miserable.

[1338 h4x0r]

Or just use Ctrl-+ in Firefox to blow up the font if you have no wheel mouse

Not at all...

It's like me saying every news story from the U.S. is about fat morons, and as much as I would love to believe there is a whole country of fat morons out there, I just know it's not true.

It's not true.

I'm not fat.

[Volumnius Flush]

It's not true.

I'm not fat.

And I'm definitely not fat! :chug:

[Jude]

Go into:

Control Panel
Date, Time, Language and Regional Options
Add Other Languages
Install files for complex scripts and right-to-left languages
(skip if it's already checked)
Apply

then

Details
Add...

then select an Arabic keyboard from any country, they're all the same.

Then Apply, and you're done. You can switch to Arabic with alt+shift. The little EN by the toolbar should change to AR when you do that.

It wants some Windows XP cd that God only knows where it is :\
I'll ask my dad tomorrow if he knows where

Get used to it. Arabic always is on computers.
****
I had to lean way into the screen to even tell what the first "baa" was

[1338 h4x0r]

And I'm definitely not fat! :chug:

You are, however, a moron.

[Sunshine]

I highly doubt that. It didn't take me a day to master the Arabic alphabet, which is a lot simpler than two whole syllabaries.

You're making it sound much, much harder than it really is.
Here's both alphabets, the first character is the hiragana, the one in parenthesis is the katakana. Each row is the first letter, each column is the second, as in, A-I-U-E-O, KA-KI-KU-KE-KO etc.
There aren't that many characters, and it's not particularly hard to memorize them. I mean, some like HE and RI are exactly the same, while MO looks similar in both hiragana/katakana. And it's easy to tell the difference between the two because hiragana is rounder, and has curvy lines, while katakana is very sharp and mostly straight-lined.

A I U E O
あ　「ア」　い「イ」　う「ウ」　え「エ」　お「オ」
K か　「カ」　き」キ」　く「ク」　け「ケ」　こ「コ」
S さ　「サ」　し」シ」　す「ス」　せ「セ」　そ「ソ」
T た「タ」　ち「チ」　つ「ツ」　て「テ」　と「ト」
N な「ナ」　に「ニ」　ぬ「ヌ」　ね」ネ」　の「ノ」
H は「ハ」　ひ「ヒ」　ふ「フ」　へ「ヘ」　ほ「ホ」
M ま「マ」　み「ミ」　む「ム」　め「メ」　も「モ」
Y や「ヤ」　－　ゆ「ユ」　ー　よ「ヨ」
R ら「ラ」　り「リ」　る「ル」　れ「レ」　ろ「ロ」
W わ「ワ」　　　　　　　　を「ヲ」

(n) ん「ン」

[Chu]

Despite popular media, I don't actually know any racist Australians.

[Jude]

If you can memorize a whole system like that in one day you have a hell of a memory

It took me a good little while to learn the Arabic alphabet (although I was teaching myself from a book) and with lots of forgetting and having to look things up...and that was with signs and things in Arabic everywhere for me to practice on.

[Iskandar]

I had to lean way into the screen to even tell what the first "baa" wasIt's the basmalah, the phrase that begins every chapter of the Qur'an. In the name of God, the compassionate, the merciful.
It took me a good little while to learn the Arabic alphabet (although I was teaching myself from a book) and with lots of forgetting and having to look things up...and that was with signs and things in Arabic everywhere for me to practice on.Learning it wasn't the problem, pronouncing it was...

[Jude]

It's the basmalah, the phrase that begins every chapter of the Qur'an. In the name of God, the compassionate, the merciful.

Hey man I know that

I know a bunch about Islam and I'm about 1/4 of the way into the Qur'an

I was referring to how hard the font was to read.

Learning it wasn't the problem, pronouncing it was...
lol you said it

mother****ing ayn

Although the emphatic sounds didn't turn out to be that hard once my teacher explained them to me but when I was just asking random Arabs who didn't know abotu linguistics or English phonology to pronounce the difference for me it was identical

[BridgeToSolace]

Eh, my dad said it was easy.

Also, that "list" and "study" is bullshit, because it depends on people inparticular. Everybody has langauges that they'd be better at, the Army gives a test on it. Both my parents took it -- for my mom, Russian was her best second language [then Polish and Serbo-Croation], and for my dad, Arabic and Korean. For me, Japanese is easier than Spanish. Etc.

I'd like to see that test. Sounds cool.

[1338 h4x0r]

Yeah I remember I used to be able to write hangeul characters and it didn't take me more than a few days to memorize all the characters

It's unsurprising that the kana should be so easy

[Iskandar]

Hangeul is a single alphabetic script. Written Japanese is two syllabaries, a logographic system and an alphabet.
Hey man I know that

I know a bunch about Islam and I'm about 1/4 of the way into the Qur'an:)

Do you have an Arabic Qur'an?

[1338 h4x0r]

I was talking about the kana specifically

And they look easy

[Iskandar]

I was talking about the kana specifically

And they look easyI think it's ridiculous that they use three different scripts when one syllabary alone would suffice.

[Jude]

Do you have an Arabic Qur'an?

Yeah I got it in Istanbul, it's translated by some dude named Marmaduke something who's a British guy that converted to islam

It's great cause in his little introduction he's talking about how he wanted to translate it in ordinary language that anybody who knows English could understand even if they aren't educated in English language and so on
and then you start reading the thing and it's in the most preposterously flowery and archaic English you could imagine, to the point that it actually is hard to understand sometimes and I have a pretty good grasp of complicated English usage

Still it's pretty cool. I also have an English-Arabic Bible I got like 2 blocks from the Holy Sepulchre.. Once I'm better at it I'm going to hit them both and go through them in Arabic. That will probably be decades from now.

[Sunshine]

But that chart displayed both of the alphabets. A couple little pictures is all it takes and BAM, you're writing Japanese.

To be fair, however, I left out all of the..modifications. Which are easy enough if you sound them out.

Such as "Sha."
Now, there's a "shi," and there's a "ya," and when you slur 'em together, they sound like "sha." To write? Just write a big "shi" and a little "ya:" しゃ

And then there's hard sounds, too, like "ba" and "ga." For the "b" string, add ten-ten [they're just quotation marks] to any "ha" character: はー＞ば

And that's it. Everything there is to know about both katakana and hiragana.

[Jude]

Throw in the Chinese characters and a whole lot of anime nerds, and you have a language I have no interest in learning

My dad is really into ancient Japanese stuff oddly enough and he knows the language

Fortunately he got into it in like the 60s and nothing to do with their ridiculous pop culture so I'm not ashamed to be related to him

Arabic ftw

Russian and Greek are good for English speakers who want to get the hang of other alphabets because they're half the same as ours and go in the same direction; just that makes them massively easier to read than Arabic or Hebrew

[Iskandar]

You also left out the kanji.
Once I'm better at it I'm going to hit them both and go through them in Arabic. That will probably be decades from now.The Qur'an is the single most difficult piece of Arabic literature to read, because it's so old. I can barely follow along without looking up obscure words and roots.

[Jude]

You also left out the kanji.
The Qur'an is probably the most difficult piece of Arabic literature to read, because it's so old. I can barely follow along without looking up obscure words and roots.

Yeah I gave up halfway through the first surah

the one that's like 5 lines long.

[Iskandar]

Yeah I gave up halfway through the first surah

the one that's like 5 lines long.I can read the shorter ones pretty easily, but I'm totally lost on the really long narratives.

[Jude]

It's hard enough to keep your attention on it in English tbh

Maybe it's the repetition of phrases and whole sections that I swear I've read at least twice in different surahs, maybe it's the ridiculously flowery English, but it's hard as hell just to keep focused.

Right now I just have to take Muslims' word for it that in Arabic it's the most beautiful and inspiring piece of poetry ever because it's not really doing it for me

[1338 h4x0r]

I think it's ridiculous that they use three different scripts when one syllabary alone would suffice.

Probably tradition

but idk

Maybe it's the repetition of phrases and whole sections that I swear I've read at least twice in different surahs

Mad remixes yo

[Sunshine]

You also left out the kanji.


I didn't "also leave out" anything.
I said that was everything there was to know about hiragana and katakana.

Kanji isn't even Japanese. It's Chinese. Simplified, and used less often than in China. Yeah, it's bitchy, but you pick it up along the way, after you've gotten the kana down. When you see a picture often enough, you tend to remember what it means.

If you see 祖部大ー前　on the sign of your train station every day, and not only does it say そぶだいーまえ　under it but you ALSO know for a fact that your station is called "Sobudai-mae"...you eventually get to recognizing those.

I'm not saying kanji is easy. Kanji is stupid. One particular character will have like 5 different pronunciations, all based on context.

But it's not the primary script of Japan, unless you're trying to read the newspaper or something. The common ones come quite easily, and the rest...eh. Often there's okurigana [hiragana that says the reading of the kanji] on top of it anyway.

And there's a method to the kanji's madness, too. Even if you don't know how to pronounce something, each little component means something, and you can guess what that kanji says. And be right, too.

[Jude]

Mad remixes yo

ahahahahhahaha
DJ Raheeeeeeem up in heah

[SonorKen]

Iraq. Basra, Fallujah, Mosul and Kerbala are beautiful this time of year.

[1338 h4x0r]

ahahahahhahaha
DJ Raheeeeeeem up in heah

I feel that 'remix' comment was sufficiently clever to deserve a pos-rep

js

[Smokey D]

You're making it sound much, much harder than it really is.
Here's both alphabets, the first character is the hiragana, the one in parenthesis is the katakana. Each row is the first letter, each column is the second, as in, A-I-U-E-O, KA-KI-KU-KE-KO etc.
There aren't that many characters, and it's not particularly hard to memorize them. I mean, some like HE and RI are exactly the same, while MO looks similar in both hiragana/katakana. And it's easy to tell the difference between the two because hiragana is rounder, and has curvy lines, while katakana is very sharp and mostly straight-lined.

A I U E O
あ　「ア」　い「イ」　う「ウ」　え「エ」　お「オ」
K か　「カ」　き」キ」　く「ク」　け「ケ」　こ「コ」
S さ　「サ」　し」シ」　す「ス」　せ「セ」　そ「ソ」
T た「タ」　ち「チ」　つ「ツ」　て「テ」　と「ト」
N な「ナ」　に「ニ」　ぬ「ヌ」　ね」ネ」　の「ノ」
H は「ハ」　ひ「ヒ」　ふ「フ」　へ「ヘ」　ほ「ホ」
M ま「マ」　み「ミ」　む「ム」　め「メ」　も「モ」
Y や「ヤ」　－　ゆ「ユ」　ー　よ「ヨ」
R ら「ラ」　り「リ」　る「ル」　れ「レ」　ろ「ロ」
W わ「ワ」　　　　　　　　を「ヲ」

(n) ん「ン」

The kana are easy enough, though they probably take longer than a day to learn. A weeks concerted effort will get you set up. What makes Japanese difficult is that it works very differently to English and to most Indo-European langauges. It is topic-comment centred (not subject-everything else, as you put it), rather than subject-object, which means sentences are frequently back to front from our perspective. The subject is often in a completely different place if it exists at all. Inflection of adjectives and the role they play in shaping meaning is completely alien to English speakers. Then you have particles, which are pretty weird. Then you have kanji and levels of politeness.

If you can get over all that, then the rules as they apply are pretty logical and straight forward. But inconsistency isn't what makes Japanese difficult.

But it's not the primary script of Japan, unless you're trying to read the newspaper or something. The common ones come quite easily, and the rest...eh. Often there's okurigana [hiragana that says the reading of the kanji] on top of it anyway.


If you can't read a newspaper you're illiterate in the language.

And kanji are useful for exactly that, because you can often work out what the sentence means by pulling out basic well understood characters.

[Iskandar]

Good summary, Smokey.

Also, Japanese word order is SOV, which places it in the opposite type of syntax (OV) whereas English is a VO language (with SVO word order). That accounts for a lot of the "backward" feel of Japanese sentences. Japanese is strongly left-branching, while our sentences are right-branching.

[Sunshine]

...except Japanese IS subject-everything else, which is the same as topic comment. Pretty much any Japanese sentence can be translated as "Speaking of [topic/subject], [everything else.]"
The subject, if its not implied, is always first. It just is. Sure, you could word your sentence to put the subject somewhere else, but in the natural flow of things, the subject is always first.

I'll admit -- in really long sentences, it's hard to remember what you're talking about, because you say a bunch of random crap and the verb is last. Well, what sounds like random crap to us silly non-Japanese folks. When you get down to really speaking, sometimes you don't even have a verb. You just kinda trail off and the other person just kind of "gets it." This is a foreign idea to English speakers, though it can be done in English (I do it all the time, it's a habit I picked up -- I don't always finish my sentences, and most of the time I'm still understood).

I don't know. It's only hard if you try and make it fit English. That's what people try and do -- they try and make it fit English instead of learning it as it's own language, which is where the difficulty comes in.

[Volumnius Flush]

You are, however, a moron.

Takes 1 2 no 1 homes.

[Iskandar]

Topic-comment is not the same thing as word order (SVO, SOV, VSO etc.). To speak Japanese coherently, you need to master both topic-comment and SOV syntax, neither of which English has.

I don't know why you're arguing that it's easy. The fact is that most Westerners find Japanese exceedingly difficult. Maybe you just got lucky, or maybe you're overstating your own skills, but this is the rule.

[Sunshine]

I'm arguing that it's easy because it is. It's an ordered, structured language, much more-so than English.
Most Westerners find Japanese difficult because they refuse to think outside of their English barriers. English is a stupid, stupid language. So far, the only really stupid thing I've found with Japanese this far is the fact that there is an entire dictionary of counting systems because every little thing gets its own counter -- birds, chickens, long, thin objects, round objects, small animals, large animals, machinery, cars, office supplies...granted, these days they only use like 3 so it's not that bad.

[1338 h4x0r]

Takes 1 2 no 1 homes.

I found a salamander under a rock once

Guess what, I'm not a salamander

[Smokey D]

I think you're being unfair. They find it difficult because discarding the structure of their native tongue isn't as easy as you're making out. Japanese may be logical, but it's pretty alien.

[Sunshine]

How am I being unfair? Am I not a "westerner" as well?

[guitrguy]

May I suggest china?

[Volumnius Flush]

I found a salamander under a rock once

Guess what, I'm not a salamander

Yeah and I found out how to take tests most people couldn't finish in an hour and finish in under 6 minutes with greater accuracy.

[Sunshine]

That's like figuring out how to do a rubric's cube in under 10 seconds.

[Volumnius Flush]

That's like figuring out how to do a rubric's cube in under 10 seconds.

It's Rubik's fyi.

And no, I was doing math tests the general populace would take an hour or longer on in under 6 minutes. I think that is indicative of an advanced method for crunching numbers.

[Against Miik!]

Thats like figuring out how to bust a nut in under 10 seconds. Like, its an accomplishment I suppose, but in the end, people are just gonna be like "what the hell is wrong w/ this person"?

[Sunshine]

It's Rubik's fyi.

And no, I was doing math tests the general populace would take an hour or longer on in under 6 minutes. I think that is indicative of an advanced method for crunching numbers.

You're not helping your cause fyi.

And, who the hell cares? Where is that going to get you in life? YAY I CAN DO MATH TESTS I R A SMART GUY.

[Volumnius Flush]

Thats like figuring out how to bust a nut in under 10 seconds. Like, its an accomplishment I suppose, but in the end, people are just gonna be like "what the hell is wrong w/ this person"?

More like 15 seconds. I have figured that out too.

You're not helping your cause fyi.

And, who the hell cares? Where is that going to get you in life? YAY I CAN DO MATH TESTS I R A SMART GUY.

It won't get me anywhere in life. Except maybe scholarships to college, which I never got. But basically I was going 10x faster with on average (I would estimate) 50%+ more accuracy.

[1338 h4x0r]

May I suggest china?

Hm

I'd like to visit, but not to live there

Yeah and I found out how to take tests most people couldn't finish in an hour and finish in under 6 minutes with greater accuracy.

Mad arithmetic powers!

[Sunshine]

Then why bring it up? To be impressive?

[1338 h4x0r]

It won't get me anywhere in life. Except maybe scholarships to college, which I never got. But basically I was going 10x faster with on average (I would estimate) 50%+ more accuracy.

Modern mathematics is really more about structures and algorithms

Being able to do arithmetic really fast is pointless because computers can already do that. However, they haven't (completely) taken over proving theorems and the like. That's where it's really at.

[Volumnius Flush]

Then why bring it up? To be impressive?

People think I'm an idiot so I am just offering up evidence, maybe not to suggest the contrary, but definitely suggest that I have mad skillz!

[1338 h4x0r]

At sucking a dick

maybe

[Aaron]

Come to Australia dude. It's sounds similar to America in culture, but more laid back and less corporate-focused. I'll shout you beers.

[Volumnius Flush]

At sucking a dick

maybe

Yeah and you were calling my name last night. No he dint!

[Aaron]

Did you just admit to sucking his dick? :lol:

[Volumnius Flush]

Did you just admit to sucking his dick? :lol:

No. I said he was calling my name last night. Big difference. Slow people... I am starting to think you are a liar about your education.

[Der Übermensch]

You said, "Yeah and you were...." meaning affirmative to what he said, and in addition, what you said.

[1338 h4x0r]

Come to Australia dude. It's sounds similar to America in culture, but more laid back and less corporate-focused. I'll shout you beers.

Well I am a teetotaler

but

I am asking about ANU admissions

[Aaron]

No. I said he was calling my name last night. Big difference. Slow people... I am starting to think you are a liar about your education.
Cause education is so important in how you post on an internet message board. I've never been a liar about my education; I'm part way through an economics degree while I work full-time for a bank.

Well I am a teetotaler

but

I am asking about ANU admissions
Do it dude. Canberra is a great uni. They've got a good music community there.

[Volumnius Flush]

You said, "Yeah and you were...." meaning affirmative to what he said, and in addition, what you said.

He said maybe. I said Yeah (implied maybe). No affirmative about it.

[1338 h4x0r]

Cause education is so important in how you post on an internet message board. I've never been a liar about my education; I'm part way through an economics degree while I work full-time for a bank.

Dude you don't live in your car on welfare

You're not mad tuff

He said maybe. I said Yeah (implied maybe). No affirmative about it.

So, there's a chance that you suck dick

Interesting...

[Volumnius Flush]

Dude you don't live in your car on welfare

You're not mad tuff


Tougher than laughy taffy.

[Aaron]

I don't own a car or have my licence. I do own my apartment though.
Does that make me tuff?

[1338 h4x0r]

You're not from Texas

Only Texans have balls of brass

[Aaron]

Czech yo rep.

[Volumnius Flush]

You're not from Texas

Only Texans have balls of brass

Balls of brass and buns of steel. And rods of iron!

Czech yo rep.

Most befaggotted post I've ever seen.

[1338 h4x0r]

Sounds really homoerotic

[Volumnius Flush]

Sounds really homoerotic

What? Rods of steel? I think it had a nice touch...

[1338 h4x0r]

Sounds like down in Texas you like to thrust rods of iron into buns of steel.

And not feminine buns of steel btw

[Volumnius Flush]

Sounds like down in Texas you like to thrust rods of iron into buns of steel.

And not feminine buns of steel btw

I like to throw my rod of iron into that big hunk of grommet.

[Reaganista]

/considers making a Reaganista-based Markov chain

your reason for wanting to leave the country
it is stupid

[1338 h4x0r]

I like to throw my rod of iron into that big hunk of grommet.

This seems more up your alley

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sphLFZdBuQk

your reason for wanting to leave the country
it is stupid

This seems more up your alley

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sphLFZdBuQk

[Reaganista]

no im serious that's a stupid reason

[1338 h4x0r]

/adjusts ignore list

[Reaganista]

this is a disscussion forum not a run and hide forum

[Smokey D]

Okay you're being stupid Haxxor. Why do you start a thread and then spam in it?



How am I being unfair? Am I not a "westerner" as well?

Okay but we've already ascertained that you have a particular ability at learning Japanese. The vast majority of people do not share your ability. Hence why it is considered hard.

Having briefly studied Japanese and studied French for quite a while, I'm fairly confident in saying that French (and by consequence other European languages) doesn't require nearly the same amount of mental gymnastics to come to grips with that Japanese does. Pretty much the most difficult thing in French is the past participle direct preceding object rule, which I still get messed up on when trying to write. You don't have to invert sentences and get to grips with the topic-comment structure. Inflection of adjectives merely reflects gender and number of the noun; you don't have to conjurgate adjectives to show tense or negation. You don't have to use post-positions to indicate case.

Most people who learn Japanese have a hard time even understanding the concepts at first, because they are so alien to English. It takes even longer for most people to learn how to manipulate them.

[Hababi]

Learning virtually any language is a lot easier once you've taken a college level linguistics class :cool:

But I wouldn't lump all (indo)European languages in the same category, Smokey. Have you ever looked at Polish? It's crazy. I spent a little bit of time on it and then abandoned ship. Virtually all of the Slovak languages are, to me, easier than tonal Asiatic languages.

For instance, I'm not going to put the tone markers in, but 'a woman' in Vietnamese is:
mot nguoi dan ba
man is:
mot nguoi dan ong

Easy.

In Polish you have szczrzbzak

[Jude]

I feel that 'remix' comment was sufficiently clever to deserve a pos-rep

js

must spread :(

German has that same thing as Japanese where the verb comes at the very end and you forget what you were talking about but you get used to it

For instance, I'm not going to put the tone markers in, but 'a woman' in Vietnamese is:
mot nguoi dan ba
man is:
mot nguoi dan ong

Easy.

In Polish you have szczrzbzak
That's severely underestimating the impossibility of learning tones though
I would never ever try to learn a tonal language ever

[Sunshine]

I could never learn a tonal language.
I went to Vietnam for a few days once, and our tour guide tried teaching me 3 simple sentences but I just couldn't do it ><

[Hababi]

I could never learn a tonal language.
I went to Vietnam for a few days once, and our tour guide tried teaching me 3 simple sentences but I just couldn't do it ><

It takes some initial practice (and sounding very dumb), but it's doable. I still have a bit of an issue with descending tones, and sometimes differentiating the rising tone and the two part low then high tone (very scientific terms, yes), but once you get the hang of it then it comes naturally.

[Iskandar]

It depends on the tonal system. Yoruba is fairly simple: one high tone, one low tone and toneless (mid). They're marked with acute accent, grave accent and nothing, respectively. Some languages, like Chinese and Vietnamese, have more complicated tonal systems with contours and dipping/rising etc.

[Hababi]

wait what's up with you and west african linguistics? :p

[Iskandar]

wait what's up with you and west african linguistics? :pAfrica is very interesting from a linguistic point of view.

[Hababi]

From more than just a linguistic standpoint :p

Good luck with implosives.

[Iskandar]

From more than just a linguistic standpoint :p

Good luck with implosives.I don't plan on actually speaking any African languages. I just think they're interesting.

Good luck with the implosives in Vietnamese (and Swahili).

[1338 h4x0r]

Okay you're being stupid Haxxor. Why do you start a thread and then spam in it?


You have a very liberal definition of 'spam'.

It depends on the tonal system. Yoruba is fairly simple: one high tone, one low tone and toneless (mid). They're marked with acute accent, grave accent and nothing, respectively. Some languages, like Chinese and Vietnamese, have more complicated tonal systems with contours and dipping/rising etc.

Mandarin is very little worse.

But don't tones sort of 'combine' in practical Yoruba?

I could never learn a tonal language.
I went to Vietnam for a few days once, and our tour guide tried teaching me 3 simple sentences but I just couldn't do it ><

The low broken tone is uncomfortable to make. You shouldn't feel like you're choking when you talk.

But if you spent more time there, I'm sure the situation would improve. It's fun to draw out and exaggerate tonal words as much as possible. laaaoooo SHIIIIIII

[Hababi]

I don't plan on actually speaking any African languages. I just think they're interesting.

Good luck with the implosives in Vietnamese (and Swahili).

Implosiveness is basically an option in Vietnamese, a sideeffect that can be avoided without trouble. The phonology of Vietnamese isn't too bad. And you can become fluent in Swahili without ever making an implosive.

[Iskandar]

And you can become fluent in Swahili without ever making an implosive.How? I thought the letters b, d, j and g represented implosives.

[1338 h4x0r]

Implosive?

Is that like the Vietnamese 'b'? Where it has a glottal stop in it?