Corporate Crime

[jaredong]

Hey guys, I was thinking.

Theres all the arguments that corporations stink. They destroy culture, the environment, they remove democratic practices in the government. communists would say they exploit the proletariat to take their wage labor. etc etc.

But. I was searching around... can anyone name 10 corporations which we *know* actually stinks?I thought of disney / walmart which uses sweatshop labor, thats bad.

But what else? We like to bash Coke and Macdonalds (for what? selling unhealthy food) or starbucks (for... taking away indie coffee shops). But, they arent extactly super vile scum of the earth for doing so right?

When I think about it... most corporations dont seem *that* bad isnt it?

[Meatplow]

theres a difference between discussing corporate crime and corporate integrity, right?

[1338 h4x0r]

But. I was searching around... can anyone name 10 corporations which we *know* actually stinks?

http://www.multinationalmonitor.org/mm2007/112007/mokhiber.html

:lol:

[siva_chair]

Most people who vilify corporations as some ultimate evil are hypocritical idiots.

[Volumnius Flush]

Then there is Nike which I think was involved in having children work in their factories at slave wages...

[1338 h4x0r]

Most people who vilify corporations as some ultimate evil are hypocritical idiots.

I don't think anyone does that. Just certain ones.

[siva_chair]

I don't think anyone does that. Just certain ones.

No there are lots of people who are against corporations in general.

Damn Communists....

[1338 h4x0r]

No there are lots of people who are against corporations in general.

Damn Communists....

The legal fiction of designating companies as individuals apparently was useful at one time, but it's worn out its welcome

Also

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~lilyth/cartoon/mrdid.jpg

[siva_chair]

The legal fiction of designating companies as individuals apparently was useful at one time, but it's worn out its welcome

Also

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~lilyth/cartoon/mrdid.jpg

Wtf are you talking about? I was saying that there are people out there that hate all corporations because they are corporations. I also said those people are hypocritical and idiots, so I don't really know what you are trying to get at exactly.

[1338 h4x0r]

There aren't that many (at least not many older than 17).

And no, disagreeing with that particular legal fiction does not make you a hypocrite or an idiot. Formal generative grammars (which played some role in the code backing this website) were not the product of an idiot.

[siva_chair]

There aren't that many (at least not many older than 17).

Really because I am pretty sure the anti-globalization movement is pretty large.....

And no, disagreeing with that particular legal fiction does not make you a hypocrite or an idiot. Formal generative grammars (which played some role in the code backing this website) were not the product of an idiot.

No complaining about big evil corporations on a computer that was undoubtedly made by one of these corporations is hypocritical.

And I have no idea what point you are trying to make with Formal generative grammars.

[1338 h4x0r]

Really because I am pretty sure the anti-globalization movement is pretty large.....

Compared to what...?


No complaining about big evil corporations on a computer that was undoubtedly made by one of these corporations is hypocritical.


Depends on the corporation I suppose. I don't find Via to be very evil. My opinion towards them is basically neutral.


And I have no idea what point you are trying to make with Formal generative grammars.

Noam Chomsky devised them. They're very important.

[mph4ever]

reality is that there are certain very large corporations in certain sectors like banking, like aviation/military, like energy, like media, like tobacco, like food and like communications that define and control commerce in co-operation with governments that are very corrupt. everything else feeds off their crumbs, legitimately. but the very few, at the very top, are very corrupt.

[mph4ever]

Noam Chomsky devised them. They're very important.

chomskys a plant

[1338 h4x0r]

Yeah, we're talking about particular corporations here, not every single one. Earlier in the thread I posted this link

http://www.multinationalmonitor.org/mm2007/112007/mokhiber.html

Example:


In March, Chiquita entered into a plea agreement with the U.S. Department of Justice, in which it admitted making illegal payments in Colombia to a right-wing militia designated as a terrorist organization by the United States. Under terms of the deal, Chiquita agreed to pay $25 million in fines to the U.S. government.


Yes, that does make them pretty sleazy. Regardless who eats their product.

chomskys a plant

Eh??

[siva_chair]

Compared to what...?

Doesn't matter. Point is you said you didn't believe anyone does that, which is false.

Depends on the corporation I suppose. I don't find Via to be very evil. My opinion towards them is basically neutral.

Well then you don't exactly fall into the category of what I was originally referring to, do you now?


Noam Chomsky devised them. They're very important.

Good for Noam Chomsky. I think he is hypocritical on several levels, so I don't really pay much attention to him.

If it makes you feel better you can substitute the word "idiot" for the word "asshat" if you want.

[siva_chair]

reality is that there are certain very large corporations in certain sectors like banking, like aviation/military, like energy, like media, like tobacco, like food and like communications that define and control commerce in co-operation with governments that are very corrupt. everything else feeds off their crumbs, legitimately. but the very few, at the very top, are very corrupt.

I work for one of the largest avionics companies in the world and I certainly don't think the company I work for is very corrupt at all.

[mph4ever]

Eh??

i don't take much notice of what he says anymore, he stays too close to the peg

its the old "chomksy says what he likes because they like what he says" story

[1338 h4x0r]

Doesn't matter. Point is you said you didn't believe anyone does that, which is false.

No, I said "not many". You can check if you like.

Good for Noam Chomsky. I think he is hypocritical on several levels, so I don't really pay much attention to him.

Explain plz.

[mph4ever]

I work for one of the largest avionics companies in the world and I certainly don't think the company I work for is very corrupt at all.

really, well good for you, what area are they in?

[siva_chair]

No, I said "not many". You can check if you like.

Ok lets check.

I don't think anyone does that. Just certain ones.

Hmm...

Explain plz.

For someone who hates capitalism so much he sure charges a lot for his books....

[siva_chair]

really, well good for you, what area are they in?

What do mean what area are they in?

[1338 h4x0r]

Ok lets check.

Hmm...


That was in response to the statement. "Most people who vilify corporations as some ultimate evil are hypocritical idiots."

I've never seen anyone make some corporations out to be an ultimate evil. Maybe sociopathic. Maybe even evil! But not the ultimate evil.


For someone who hates capitalism so much he sure charges a lot for his books....

That depends on what you consider expensive I guess

http://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Power-Indispensable-Chomsky-Noam/dp/1565847032

[mph4ever]

What do mean what area are they in?

avionics is extremely broad. any military contracts? or is it all civil?

[siva_chair]

That was in response to the statement. "Most people who vilify corporations as some ultimate evil are hypocritical idiots."

I've never seen anyone make some corporations out to be an ultimate evil. Maybe sociopathic. Maybe even evil! But not the ultimate evil.

Ok let's drop the ultimate part. Point still stands. People who think all corporations are evil are hypocritical idiots/asshats. Better?

That depends on what you consider expensive I guess

http://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Power-Indispensable-Chomsky-Noam/dp/1565847032

Wow that is suprising. Last I ever looked at any of his stuff it was like 20 bucks for a book that was barely 100 pages long.

I also think it is kind of hypocritical that he distributes this literature through various corporations....

avionics is extremely broad. any military contracts? or is it all civil?

Oh I see what you mean. Both actually. We do lots of military as well as civil contracts around the world.

Chances are, if it flies, it has some of our instrumentation in it somewhere.

[BassRevelation1029]

http://www.multinationalmonitor.org/mm2007/112007/mokhiber.html

:lol:

that answers the question
I was saying that there are people out there that hate all corporations because they are corporations. I also said those people are hypocritical and idiots, so I don't really know what you are trying to get at exactly.
I'd say thats a bit extreme, and though I haven't run into anyone like that yet, I wouldn't be surprised they exist.

If it hasn't already been said, I recommend you guys watch the film "The Corporation." You can find it online. Its appealing cause its not some radical piece criticizing corporations for no reason.

Good for Noam Chomsky. I think he is hypocritical on several levels, so I don't really pay much attention to him.
He was referencing to Chomsky the Linguist, so your point is irrelevant.

On that topic, look up the term "Civic Schizophrenia." It describes how we may be deplore something because of morality yet be apart of it. Corporations have swallowed our culture to the point where its hard to find a critic who's not really hypocritical.

[mph4ever]

cool, comes with a lot of responsibility. i have a friend who wrote the software for air traffic control systems. he has installed the software in some eastern european airports. i think he has a more stressful job that the controllers themselves.

i think discussing your employer, the areas it operates in and the like is too sensitive for forums. i used to have the highest level of civilian security clearance in the uk in order to work on MoD projects, particularly nuclear submarines and navigation systems at the national physical laboratories in england. cool place

[siva_chair]

I'd say thats a bit extreme, and though I haven't run into anyone like that yet, I wouldn't be surprised they exist.

You've never seen posters on here talking about how evil all corporations are? I know I sure have....



He was referencing to Chomsky the Linguist, so your point is irrelevant.

Umm yeah he was brought up because he is supposedly a smart person who is anti-corporation/anti-globalization, so I'd say it still stands, as I wasn't even criticizing his work in linguistics.

Doesn't matter though. I don't agree with Chomsky on a lot of issues so I just tend to ignore the repetitive crap he comes out with anyway.

On that topic, look up the term "Civic Schizophrenia." It describes how we may be deplore something because of morality yet be apart of it. Corporations have swallowed our culture to the point where its hard to find a critic who's not really hypocritical.

If you truely think corporations are evil and don't wish them to exist, don't continue to fund them by buying their products. It is simple as that. No one is forcing you to buy their products if you don't want to.

cool, comes with a lot of responsibility. i have a friend who wrote the software for air traffic control systems. he has installed the software in some eastern european airports. i think he has a more stressful job that the controllers themselves.

:thumb:

There is a lot to the industry, and it employs a huge number of people.

i think discussing your employer, the areas it operates in and the like is too sensitive for forums. i used to have the highest level of civilian security clearance in the uk in order to work on MoD projects, particularly nuclear submarines and navigation systems at the national physical laboratories in england. cool place

Well I wasn't about to reveal the name of my company or any sort of sensitive information like that, but it's no secret that my company has customers from everywhere around the world.

[Danish]

Hey guys, I was thinking.

Theres all the arguments that corporations stink. They destroy culture, the environment, they remove democratic practices in the government. communists would say they exploit the proletariat to take their wage labor. etc etc.

But. I was searching around... can anyone name 10 corporations which we *know* actually stinks?I thought of disney / walmart which uses sweatshop labor, thats bad.

But what else? We like to bash Coke and Macdonalds (for what? selling unhealthy food) or starbucks (for... taking away indie coffee shops). But, they arent extactly super vile scum of the earth for doing so right?

When I think about it... most corporations dont seem *that* bad isnt it?

Do a little bit of research on this. Coke kills trade unionists in Colombia, just for starters. General Motors Canada headquarters in Oshawa Ontario is currently under a blockade by the Canadian Autoworkers' Union over the announcement that the Oshawa Truck Plant will close, contrary to the collective agreement they negotiated barely three weeks ago.

Just in terms of labour practices, I can't think of a single virtuous employer.

[Danish]

Most people who vilify corporations as some ultimate evil are hypocritical idiots.

Very few academics on the left use the world "evil" at all, let alone to describe the corporation.

The corporation is a particular, legally-constructed form of social organization. It was devised as a way to "limit shareholder liability", but this is far from its primary function. They are designed to pursue profitability for shareholders above all else, even compliance with the law.

In our societies, corporations have immense power. They control the economy with absolutely no input from any democratic process, and they are able to control otherwise democratic political processes. For example, corporations in the healthcare and insurance sectors have poured billions of dollars into lobbying efforts to fight single-payer national healthcare. Even more recently, business successfully lobbied to have the Employee Free Choice Act killed, which would have re-established card-based union certification, an absolute necessity to a functioning right to join a union.

And we're not just talking about "a few bad apples"; this is the way corporations are designed to function, and they are very efficient at it.

[BassRevelation1029]

You've never seen posters on here talking about how evil all corporations are? I know I sure have....
Honestly I never have. Not to say I wouldn't put it past these diet-liberals on mx

Umm yeah he was brought up because he is supposedly a smart person who is anti-corporation/anti-globalization
he was brought up because of his developments in Formal Generative grammars

Doesn't matter though. I don't agree with Chomsky on a lot of issues so I just tend to ignore the repetitive crap he comes out with anyway.
agree or disagree he thoroughly argues every point.

It doesn't matter though as you say :chug:

If you truely think corporations are evil and don't wish them to exist, don't continue to fund them by buying their products. It is simple as that. No one is forcing you to buy their products if you don't want to.

But they're Americans; they want the best of both worlds.

silly pseudo-marxists
And we're not just talking about "a few bad apples"; this is the way corporations are designed to function, and they are very efficient at it.
Another great post

I liked that opening part of the film. Showed how Every media outlet thought they were just a few bad apples.