How much control do corporations and special interest groups have in policy making?

[Mr. Ron]

Title says it all. After reading a few books no the subject, it seems like corporations and special interest groups control a great deal of the bills/laws that are made and or passed. Thoughts, objections, insights?

[free_thinkers_are_dangerous]

Depending on the industry and whoever's in power at the time, they can have quite a lot of clout indeed. Sometimes it's obvious, but not always. I think it's not necessarily always a bad thing (farmers need someone to speak for them, etc.), but when the population takes one in the jaw for big companies it goes too far.

[Dave de Sylvia]

There's a great line in Jagdish Bhagwati's In Defence Of Globalization. It's something like: "... lobbying, or "bribery" as it's known outside of the US.."

[free_thinkers_are_dangerous]

haha. that's great.

[Jude]

"Control" technically none. "Influence bordering on control," disturbingly massive amounts.

[Mr. Ron]

I'm trying to look for some credible websites that have information on this subject but I can't find much. :/

[DBoons Ghost]

I'm trying to look for some credible websites that have information on this subject but I can't find much. :/

http://www.opensecrets.org/lobbyists/

[Akira]

There's a great line in Jagdish Bhagwati's In Defence Of Globalization. It's something like: "... lobbying, or "bribery" as it's known outside of the US.."

I don't know how any sane person can look at lobbying as anything but bribery. It's really disgusting.

[mph4ever]

i love this thread

sure its how they get things done, there is nothing done that is genuinely in the best interests of the people, it is done in the sole interest of the mega global corporations, smaller companies mop up the crumbs and look legit. there are benefits for the people but they are as a consequence, not a purpose.

in ireland, the party in power more or less all of the time is considered to be the political wing of the construction industry, i'd say the amercian government is the political wing of the oil and weapons industries

[Dave de Sylvia]

sure its how they get things done, there is nothing done that is genuinely in the best interests of the people, it is done in the sole interest of the mega global corporations, smaller companies mop up the crumbs and look legit. there are benefits for the people but they are as a consequence, not a purpose.
Depends what you mean by benefits for the people. The labour lobby is by some measure the most powerful lobby on the planet. While I don't mean to paint it as some monolithic bloc, its purpose (in most cases) is to benefit the people as a whole, whether you believe it succeeds or not.

The agricultural lobby is also extremely powerful in Europe, the US and Australia, and its efforts are at least in part intended to keep the poorest farmers out of poverty. You could say similar things for manufacturing lobbies in the US, although to a lesser extent.

Probably the only group that consistently loses from lobbying is the consumer- and I'm sure we can all agree that the poorest among us are disproportionately affected by this.

[Against Miik!]

Corporations today have ALL the power, because they have all the money.

It is the unforeseen problem with capitalism. Capitalism, at least the perverted version we see in the US today, is no better than communism or fascism. It does not create a free state. It only privatizes total control of the populace, and even worse, for profit.

[Iskandar]

Depends what you mean by benefits for the people. The labour lobby is by some measure the most powerful lobby on the planet.
Naturally, because lots of people are labourers. But the labour movement in the US is fragmented and really quite weak compared to other countries.
It is the unforeseen problem with capitalism. Capitalism, at least the perverted version we see in the US today, is no better than communism or fascism. It does not create a free state. It only privatizes total control of the populace, and even worse, for profit.Obviously the US is light-years better than the USSR or Nazi Germany, but that's not to say it doesn't have its share of problems, and reactionary attitudes about economics don't help.

Not to be nitpicky but fascist states practiced a form of capitalism too. You'd be surprised how many people want to deny that.

[Against Miik!]

O come on what the hell. I make an anti-capitalism post maybe once every six months, and when I finally do, you can't even just say 123.

This hurts.

But yeah you can have capitalism and fascism. People confuse economic policies and forms of government a lot (I sorta just did).

[Iskandar]

I can't help it. I'm really, really literal.

Besides, we're having a constructive discussion here. How about whether capitalism naturally tends to a "corporatist" system in which big business wields disparate influence? Is it possible to deter this through market-based means, or is government needed to step in?

[Against Miik!]

As much as I am for a free market, the irony of the situation is, it takes a bit of government intervention (in the right places), to have a true free market.

Their needs to be protection against and punishments for things like monopolies, false advertising, and corruption. All of these things disrupt the market, and hinder the basic principles of a free market from taking place.

[mph4ever]

Depends what you mean by benefits for the people. The labour lobby is by some measure the most powerful lobby on the planet. While I don't mean to paint it as some monolithic bloc, its purpose (in most cases) is to benefit the people as a whole, whether you believe it succeeds or not.

i am talking about lobbying for the purposes of getting legislation passed or products accepted offically for the marketplace that enable the corporations to make more profits.

labour lobbies are big but they do little other than give little people lots of power representing the masses. there are very few actions that can be taken these days where the government and the corporations, acting in unison, can't oppose and defeat. as a matter of fact i am having difficulty thinking of any in recent memory. sure there are token gestures that makes everybody feel good about the 1,000 jobs saved in cork or dublin due to the intervention of a local polictician, but they are few and far between


The agricultural lobby is also extremely powerful in Europe

i am not too sure about this. farms are being deserted by the traditional farmers, their kids are migrating to the city, collective farming of a capitalistic nature has made huge farms controlled by corporations. sure there are some co-ops left but they are usually asscociated with significant local brands that are renowned.

the US

when was the last time a chip a kid ate in mcdonalds or a hamburger in burger king had come from a small independent farmer, traceable to the grower. never. sure there is organic farming out there but their produce is locally consumed and costs massive amounts of money, too much for joe bloggs to live off it.

and Australia,

can't comment, don't know enough

and its efforts are at least in part intended to keep the poorest farmers out of poverty.
its a token, they are just waiting for this generation of farmers to die and the land to be sold to the collectivising corporations

You could say similar things for manufacturing lobbies in the US, although to a lesser extent.

is that why china is so busy? doing american jobs cheaper. is thats why the car industry is in such a mess? is thats why the flag ship corporations are moving en masse to manufacture in the far east. or not even bothering to own the factories any more, they just "outsource" american, english, german, french, italian, spanish, irish jobs to chinas sweat shops. why? because there is no labour lobby group in china, the employees have no rights, cuts the complication a little for the government and the corporations. the only thing they won't "outsource" is the us postal service and we all know the reason for that.


Probably the only group that consistently loses from lobbying is the consumer- and I'm sure we can all agree that the poorest among us are disproportionately affected by this.

fair point and lobbying, the money handed as bribes to decision making corrupt offiicials and corrupt political parties is in no way beneficial to the people, the masses, they all claim to be protecting

[BassRevelation1029]

Thoughts, objections, insights?
Serious?

Lobbyists run the country. Its evident, and yes there's more to it but thats essentially the bottom line.
http://www.opensecrets.org/lobbyists/

:thumb: good site. did a little reading on there before

[Mr. Ron]

Good link. I think I'll do a paper on this.

[ringworm]

Title says it all. After reading a few books no the subject, it seems like corporations and special interest groups control a great deal of the bills/laws that are made and or passed. Thoughts, objections, insights?

i cant remember a time when i havent thought this

even on a small local level its severely prominent

[Dave de Sylvia]

i am talking about lobbying for the purposes of getting legislation passed or products accepted offically for the marketplace that enable the corporations to make more profits.

labour lobbies are big but they do little other than give little people lots of power representing the masses. there are very few actions that can be taken these days where the government and the corporations, acting in unison, can't oppose and defeat. as a matter of fact i am having difficulty thinking of any in recent memory. sure there are token gestures that makes everybody feel good about the 1,000 jobs saved in cork or dublin due to the intervention of a local polictician, but they are few and far between


i am not too sure about this. farms are being deserted by the traditional farmers, their kids are migrating to the city, collective farming of a capitalistic nature has made huge farms controlled by corporations. sure there are some co-ops left but they are usually asscociated with significant local brands that are renowned.

when was the last time a chip a kid ate in mcdonalds or a hamburger in burger king had come from a small independent farmer, traceable to the grower. never. sure there is organic farming out there but their produce is locally consumed and costs massive amounts of money, too much for joe bloggs to live off it.

can't comment, don't know enough

its a token, they are just waiting for this generation of farmers to die and the land to be sold to the collectivising corporations

is that why china is so busy? doing american jobs cheaper. is thats why the car industry is in such a mess? is thats why the flag ship corporations are moving en masse to manufacture in the far east. or not even bothering to own the factories any more, they just "outsource" american, english, german, french, italian, spanish, irish jobs to chinas sweat shops. why? because there is no labour lobby group in china, the employees have no rights, cuts the complication a little for the government and the corporations. the only thing they won't "outsource" is the us postal service and we all know the reason for that.



fair point and lobbying, the money handed as bribes to decision making corrupt offiicials and corrupt political parties is in no way beneficial to the people, the masses, they all claim to be protecting
Hmm, I must have missed this when the site went down yesterday. Remind me to respond to this tomorrow.

[Dr Hooch]

Someone in the know tell me what the UK equivalent is to this?

We can't be that much better, can we?

[Danish]

Corporations today have ALL the power, because they have all the money.

It is the unforeseen problem with capitalism. Capitalism, at least the perverted version we see in the US today, is no better than communism or fascism. It does not create a free state. It only privatizes total control of the populace, and even worse, for profit.

The tendency of capitalism toward accumulation and total control over public space wasn't unforeseen. This was argued back in the 1600s, and it's an observation of reality that hasn't gone away.

As for lobbying, corporations cumulatively give billions of dollars annually to politicians in order to secure desired legislation and, probably more importantly, to defeat legislation that is undesirable to business. And it's more than just lobbying politicians, too. It's public relations (aka propaganda).

And let's not forget that corporations represent the interests of a tiny minority of the population.

[DBoons Ghost]

Good link. I think I'll do a paper on this.

Dig too deep and connect the dots and you might be a little sick to your stomach.

Where's fenwood? Profits before people was it?

[mph4ever]

Hmm, I must have missed this when the site went down yesterday. Remind me to respond to this tomorrow.

what am i, your admin or something and anyways, too late, i take it all back, didn't mean any of it :)

[Dave de Sylvia]

Hooray! I should do this in every thread.