selling the war

[mph4ever]

mcclellan, the presidents press secretary, lets out a few home truths about his experiences in the white house.


McClellan stops short of saying that Bush purposely lied about his reasons for invading Iraq, writing that he and his subordinates were not "employing out-and-out deception" to make their case for war in 2002.

But in a chapter titled "Selling the War," he alleges that the administration repeatedly shaded the truth and that Bush "managed the crisis in a way that almost guaranteed that the use of force would become the only feasible option."

"Over that summer of 2002," he writes, "top Bush aides had outlined a strategy for carefully orchestrating the coming campaign to aggressively sell the war. . . . In the permanent campaign era, it was all about manipulating sources of public opinion to the president's advantage."

McClellan, once a staunch defender of the war from the podium, comes to a stark conclusion, writing, "What I do know is that war should only be waged when necessary, and the Iraq war was not necessary."


full article here - http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24848910/

there is always something missing from these memoir type things, they always stop short of telling us why things happened. its as if they are written to detract but appear positive in some way, like he was bad but not that bad. is it only me who reads things like this, cynic that i am?

[Volumnius Flush]

I commend Scott McClellan for coming to the realization that the war was not necessary. That takes a lot of guts to come out and make these sorts of comments in criticism of the president.

I disagree with you. I think he was fair and he was critical. But he certainly wasn't harsh.

[mph4ever]

i think i am going to have to get the book and stop taking other opinions or interpretations for granted

[EinzingerIsGod]

I commend Scott McClellan for coming to the realization that the war was not necessary. That takes a lot of guts to come out and make these sorts of comments in criticism of the president.

Not really when 3/4 of the country disapproves of Bush and his policies. This will be an interesting read, but McClellan is simply cashing in on Bush's unpopularity. I'm not suggesting anything he will say in the book is fabricated, but the timing of it all seems suspect considering how long he has been out of the White House at this point.

[mph4ever]

i see the white house has come out and said that mccellan is a "disgruntled employee" and that bush is aware of the book but they don't expect him to comment

in america, do they have official judicial enquiries into events. like is it possible, with enough people doing things like mccellan, to take the prez to court after he leaves office?

[Jude]

It's possible to take him to court while he's in office but that isn't going to happen

[mph4ever]

no, thats what i was thinking, the country doesn't need it. but what about after?

[ringworm]

the press is all over this

of course they are portraying him as a disgruntled employee and weighing who it hurts more, McCain or Bush

[Der Übermensch]

there is always something missing from these memoir type things, they always stop short of telling us why things happened.
Because they all signed NDA's and had to submit their manuscripts for redaction.
There are some things they simply can't put to paper.

[mph4ever]

ok, but the details of non disclosure must be fairly loose for him to be able to write what he did or are you suggesting that they write what they like and they are then censored?

[Der Übermensch]

Write what they like, turn it in, and it is censured.

[mph4ever]

fu'ck, that makes a lot of things not worth reading. what ever happened to freedom of information?

[Already_Taken]

It never existed.

[BassRevelation1029]

no, thats what i was thinking, the country doesn't need it. but what about after?

yes the country does need it. Even if he were impeached in the next few weeks, it would send a message to the next few presidents that the unconstitutional expansion of powers is unacceptable.

[Der Übermensch]

fu'ck, that makes a lot of things not worth reading. what ever happened to freedom of information?

It's because they signed the NDA. If they didn't, then someone else would get the job. It makes a lot of sense at times... there is a lot of sensitive information out there that probably shouldn't be revealed for security reasons, but it is also stupid at times, especially when it obstructs government transparency.

[Akira]

Yeah. The fact that NDAs can impair transparency is a problem, but they are still very much reasonable security precautions.

What pisses me off more is McClellan cashing in on this now after staying silent for so long, then actually working for the administration before that.
Actions speak louder than words.

[mph4ever]

It never existed.

oh. thats a shame. is there a time limit where they release d0cuments to the public? like here it can be 30 years or so before relevent docs are made public


It's because they signed the NDA. If they didn't, then someone else would get the job. It makes a lot of sense at times... there is a lot of sensitive information out there that probably shouldn't be revealed for security reasons, but it is also stupid at times, especially when it obstructs government transparency.


so, if we don't agree how you act after you leave the job we are about to offer you then we won't offer you the job.

whats the penalty for breaking the rules?


yes the country does need it. Even if he were impeached in the next few weeks, it would send a message to the next few presidents that the unconstitutional expansion of powers is unacceptable.
your right, the only way to arrest this situation is for direct action now. how do we kick off an impeachment?




Yeah. The fact that NDAs can impair transparency is a problem, but they are still very much reasonable security precautions.

i'd agree. there are certain levels of administration and control required in a democracy. thats why i am an anarchist, transparency is a given with us.

[Der Übermensch]

whats the penalty for breaking the rules?
Depends on the terms of the NDA.

At the very least you would be sued for breach of contract.

At most... charged with treason?

[Against Miik!]

Everything McClellan is saying is pretty much common knowledge among people with fully functional brains, soooo I guess this is brings confirmation from a somewhat legitimate source. Lets hope this isn't just George Tenet part II.

[BassRevelation1029]

your right, the only way to arrest this situation is for direct action now. how do we kick off an impeachment?

flood your congressman with mail telling him to gain some integrity.


http://www.billmaher.com/?page_id=107

For you who heard the reference to McClellan's quote from Bill Maher's show, heres the full transcript. To me he still sounds like a propagandist, so I have to agree with O'Reilly when he points this out.

[Already_Taken]

Everything McClellan is saying is pretty much common knowledge among people with fully functional brains, soooo I guess this is brings confirmation from a somewhat legitimate source. Lets hope this isn't just George Tenet part II.

No, actually what you are referring to as "common knowledge" was merely an assumption before.

[mph4ever]

flood your congressman with mail telling him to gain some integrity.


http://www.billmaher.com/?page_id=107

For you who heard the reference to McClellan's quote from Bill Maher's show, heres the full transcript. To me he still sounds like a propagandist, so I have to agree with O'Reilly when he points this out.


reading through that it appears he is not capable of paticipatng properly in the session. mahers agenda was held all the way through.

[Against Miik!]

No, actually what you are referring to as "common knowledge" was merely an assumption before.

Well if you want to argue semantics, then yes. But it was a very good, solid, factually accurate assumption.

[mph4ever]

Well if you want to argue semantics, then yes. But it was a very good, solid, factually accurate assumption.

there are lots of assumptions about. are you saying that we can begin to consider them good, solid and factually accurate and leave it until some writes their memoirs.

ever hear of the corrs? they're a band from ireland. not very interesting except when the the bloke in the band (its three sisters and a brother) got on national radio in ireland here is what he had to say

In a radio interview on Today FM’s “The Last Word” yesterday, he went on a well rehearsed rant about the Lisbon Treaty and the 9/11 terrorist attacks. Apparently, he got on the air thanks to his buddy Tony Fenton (pictured with him here).

During his rant, he claimed that:

The Bush administration, with the help of the intelligence community - the CIA, etc., carried out the atrocities in New York, Washington and Pennsylvania

Explosives were planted in the WTC towers in order to ensure that they “collapsed neatly into their own footprint”

Rudolph Guiliani, then mayor of New York, covered it up by shipping evidence (including steel from the towers) abroad

None of the hi-jackers were actually on the airline passenger manifests and at least eight are still alive and free today

We are headed towards a “new world order” culminating in a single world government which he said would be a “scientific dictatorship” - starting with Mexico, Canada and the US merging (and using one currency, the “Amero“) - and those later merging with Europe and Asia.

heres the link to where the 11 minutes of audio can be found, this is funneeeeeee

http://blog.niallok.com/index.php/2008/05/30/jim-corrs-amazing-radio-rant-about-911-and-lisbon/

you have to listen to the audio, have a bucket near by

[Mister_Che]

That's hilarious.

[mph4ever]

That's hilarious.

if you listened to the audio then you would really die laughing

google videos as the basis of truth

[mph4ever]

i was looking to see where i might put this since it is all related.

JERUSALEM - An Israeli attack on Iranian nuclear sites looks “unavoidable” given the apparent failure of sanctions to deny Tehran technology with bomb-making potential, one of Prime Minister Ehud Olmert’s deputies said Friday.

full story

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24998146/