Taxing 'Alcopops' in Australia

[horseypie]

http://video.msn.com/video.aspx/?mkt=en-au&brand=ninemsn&vid=4a90b724-16d1-44ac-a0fe-18f14ae52c0c&fg=rss&from=imbot_en-au_general&wa=wsignin1.0

is probably the worst idea the government has had if they are really trying to fight binge drinking. Basically its just a tax grab from my point of view.

So yeah discuss

[badtaste]

More money to the government can't be wrong.

>_>

But yeah, I don't drink at all, so it doesn't affect me. I don't think raising taxes on such drinks will deter teens much, might even make it more attractive to them. Heck, they could always turn to other drinks, or mix their own concoctions.

Better strategies could have been employed if the government really was interested in deterring teen girls from drinking alcopops, or alcohol in general.

[Aaron]

It's silly. Means a 6 pack of double-blacks is the same price as a bottle of vodka.

[bradc1988]

They're basing it off of the fact that a teens income is limited, and that most female binge drinkers only drink those 'alcopops' due to their taste, so by making it more expensive they won't drink any more!

I don't see the point to binge drinking anyway so idc, but there is an idea behind the ploy.

idk if it will work.

[Aaron]

I doubt it. People will just buy goon.

[Alf™]

It won't work, and it is pretty stupid.

[bradc1988]

Unless you guys are 15 year old girls you can't really comment.

A survey of some sort will come out eventually with statistics of this and that saying whether this has been successful or not. Until then you can only theorise.

[Meatplow]

the party I was at last night is proof this tax has not stopped binge drinking

[horseypie]

I don't really see it working, seeing as the bottle shop around the corner from my uncle is already selling a bottle of bourbon and a 2L bottle of coke for $30, which is a pretty good deal I reckon and fairly affordable.

But i don't think this will stop binge or underage drinking at all.

[Alf™]

It isn't all about 15 year old girls. Some of my mates drink UDL's :(.

[Aaron]

Aaron last night is proof this tax has not stopped binge drinking
...

[bradc1988]

It isn't all about 15 year old girls. Some of my mates drink UDL's :(.

...

[horseypie]

lol i drink cruisers when im drunk and over the taste of what ive been drinking

other peoples cruisers tho i dont buy my own

[Aaron]

I drink whatever I can get my hands on for free/cheap.

[Apocalyptic Raids]

This tax sucks. I like double blacks :(

And seriously, like everyone else has pointed out, if teenagers want to get drunk then they're just going to move onto other drinks, or alternatively they'll mix their own.

[br3ad_man]

I don't see why everyone thinks this is such a bad idea. Just yesterday a girl told me that she won't be drinking as much as a direct result of this tax. Obviously binge drinking is not a good thing and while it doesn't deal with any of the root causes of the problem, I think it's a fairly interesting strategy that is at least worth trying.

Besides, it's a bloody good way for the government to raise money that doesn't really hurt the average citizen.

[bradc1988]

Also the amount of money that alcohol costs the states is huge, tax them more I say!

[mph4ever]

they did this here in ireland about 3 years ago. drinks like hooch and smirnoff ice and barcardi breezers all went from the same price as a bottle of beer, say €3.50 up to €5.00. there was no change in the pattern at all. they said it was to reduce binge drinking but sales didn't fall off. from this i deduce that the binge drinking reason is just another smokescreen for stealth taxation on somethig that was extremely popular and still is, fu'ckers

[Charlie Daniels]

Well, I think this tax isn't going to make girls drink less... it'll just make them act even more slutty to get guys to buy them drinks.

But seriously, it's only an extra $3 to $4 per four pack. It's not a big enough increase to make a difference to the individuals... but over all it's a lot more revenue.

And while I can buy a 5 litre cask of 13.5% Alc/Vol wine for $8.99aud from the bottleshop 50m up my street, I'm still happy. And if it means I have to shell out an extra $3-$4 when I want to get any teenage girls inebriated, then so be it I'll do that too :-S

[rasputin]

A lot of people fail to realise that the binge drinking problem is more inherent within the society itself and a simple boost in the price of alcohol won't make much of a difference. Still, it doesn't deter people. I work in the bar at Subi oval, and the price now for a can of bourbon and coke or bundy/coke whatever is $8.50, and people still buy them with just as little hesitancy when they were 7 bucks or whatever (i think actually $7.50).
Sure, it may be a tax grab from the government, but I don't see any problem with it. Simply put, this country has a huge problem with alcohol.

[bradc1988]

It's become a culture.

Not good!

Surely they should have come up with a better idea for a solution in the 2020 Summit...you'd think...

[mph4ever]

same as here. but when i was out there i couldn't believe some of the things. the prevalence of hard liquor based pre mixed cans was staggering. i have to say i enjoyed it there since i felt a little at home with the beer culture.

i heard somewhere that australia has different alcohol limits for drinking and driving between male and female. is that true, like two beers for a bloke and one for a bird?

[bradc1988]

Well the limit is 0.02% for both genders, and theoretically the average women takes less to get there than the average male so yeah. I think that's the same as the States anyway.

[mph4ever]

0.02 % bac? thats nothing. i would have expected 0.05 or higher. we are at 0.08 although there was talk recently of it moving to 0.05 to keep us in line with the rest of europe

[funkyhoney]

It won't deter people, especially teenage sluts- I mean 'young women' who like sugary alcohol because they don't actually like alcohol and just want some action.

Seriously though, if they want to stop the teenage drinking culture they're going to have to do more than pump the price up a small fraction, considering most teens probably don't pay for their own alcohol either way.

My opinion is a government cash grab, they're all too happy to raise taxes but when it comes to fuel prices, they're "considering" dropping "4 cents" off the GST of fuel, "some time" in the next 18 months.

[Der Übermensch]

It isn't all about 15 year old girls. Some of my mates drink UDL's :(.

Yeah. My brother drinks Smirnoff twisties.

[DekWannaBFlea]

Studies, here in the States, have shown that cigarette taxes have reduced the amount of people buying cigarettes. I think it would work with alcohol too.


People in this thread fail to realize that their person stories aren't really good examples of how the taxes are failing only that in some instances how the tax isn't effecting some people.

[br3ad_man]

0.02 % bac? thats nothing. i would have expected 0.05 or higher. we are at 0.08 although there was talk recently of it moving to 0.05 to keep us in line with the rest of europe

I'm not sure where he got 0.02 from because it is 0.05.

It won't deter people, especially teenage sluts- I mean 'young women' who like sugary alcohol because they don't actually like alcohol and just want some action.

Oh dear.

Seriously though, if they want to stop the teenage drinking culture they're going to have to do more than pump the price up a small fraction, considering most teens probably don't pay for their own alcohol either way.

Why do people assume that the government sees this as the ultimate solution to this problem? Of course they're going to have to do more.

My opinion is a government cash grab, they're all too happy to raise taxes but when it comes to fuel prices, they're "considering" dropping "4 cents" off the GST of fuel, "some time" in the next 18 months.

Uh. Yeah. Petrol is something that people need. "Alcopops" certainly don't fit into that category. I don't see why people should be upset about the government raising money through things like this. They need to make money somehow.

[Illmatic]

if the price of alcohol increases, you can't buy as much alcohol. when you can't buy as much alcohol, you don't drink as much.

it's not going to stop people with drinking problems from drinking as much, but very few things will.

I can't believe this concept flew over so many people's heads

[Smokey D]

Of course taxing will have an effect on how much alcohol gets consumed. Price always affects supply and demand. But it's pretty stupid to tax just one class of alcohol especially.

Although from what I understand Australia already has ridiculously expensive alcohol as it is.

[br3ad_man]

But it's pretty stupid to tax just one class of alcohol especially.

Actually, it was just closing a loophole and making the tax the same as it is on spirits. You're right though, alcohol in Australia is very expensive.

[funkyhoney]

Uh. Yeah. Petrol is something that people need. "Alcopops" certainly don't fit into that category. I don't see why people should be upset about the government raising money through things like this. They need to make money somehow.


That's just the thing, today's urban youth demographic thinks that alcohol is a need.

I'm not upset, I rarely drink them; but they're disillusioned if they think this will do anything at all. Nothing will stop people getting trashed on cheap booze, you can't legislate against stupidity.

[Smokey D]

But you can make stupidity prohibitively expensive.

Not that I have anything against people getting trashed. Alcopops should be exterminated on principle, though.

[br3ad_man]

That's just the thing, today's urban youth demographic thinks that alcohol is a need.

That's a ridiculous generalisation.

I'm not upset, I rarely drink them; but they're disillusioned if they think this will do anything at all. Nothing will stop people getting trashed on cheap booze, you can't legislate against stupidity.One girl told me that she would be drinking less as a direct result of this tax. Surely you aren't suggesting that she is the only one in the entire country.

Of course it's not going to solve the problem, it would be absurd to even suggest that (and as far as I know, no one has). But saying that this isn't going to "do anything at all" is just as, if not more absurd.

[bradc1988]

I'm not sure where he got 0.02 from because it is 0.05.





Oh what. I could've swore!

:o

[Charlie Daniels]

But you can make stupidity prohibitively expensive.

Not that I have anything against people getting trashed. Alcopops should be exterminated on principle, though.

Well, as I mentioned, raising the price ~$.75 drink, when the price is already $4, won't have a major difference. It might be more expensive, but if people can already afford $24 for 6 (bottle shop) or $42 for 6 (bar price) they can probably still afford $28 and $49 respectively...

They already were frightfully expensive, and I think it's need to probably go up 50% for it to actually affect the consumption...

[funkyhoney]

But you can make stupidity prohibitively expensive.

Not that I have anything against people getting trashed. Alcopops should be exterminated on principle, though.

As a direct result of the tax hike they've only gone up a few dollars, if that. Not even close to prohibitive increase.

Either way, you could buy a bottle of spirits a lot cheaper in comparative terms.

[funkyhoney]

Well, as I mentioned, raising the price ~$.75 drink, when the price is already $4, won't have a major difference. It might be more expensive, but if people can already afford $24 for 6 (bottle shop) or $42 for 6 (bar price) they can probably still afford $28 and $49 respectively...

They already were frightfully expensive, and I think it's need to probably go up 50% for it to actually affect the consumption...

50% total price I assume you mean?

[funkyhoney]

That's a ridiculous generalisation.

One girl told me that she would be drinking less as a direct result of this tax. Surely you aren't suggesting that she is the only one in the entire country.

Of course it's not going to solve the problem, it would be absurd to even suggest that (and as far as I know, no one has). But saying that this isn't going to "do anything at all" is just as, if not more absurd.

It's a woeful generalisation, and technically I'd be including myself in that generalisation either way. But after studying marketing for some time and a brief stint with economics I've learnt that to make money, make taxes, sell a product, etc. gross generalisations need to be made.

By that I mean, if they want to make a difference on the amount of 'alcopops' sold, they need to assume that a large majority of people drink them to excess on a regular basis.

[Charlie Daniels]

Yes. People might start bawlking on them if Bar prices were bottleshop prices. And if bar prices for 6 drinks was the best part of $100.

But I don't think they should have gone up any :-S

[rasputin]

Well the limit is 0.02% for both genders
I'm not sure where he got 0.02 from because it is 0.05.
The limit is 0.05 for a full license, and 0.02 for a P-plater, or a driver who is in the first two years of their license. And there are no different limits for genders, that's a pretty ridiculous idea.

[funkyhoney]

The limit is 0.05 for a full license, and 0.02 for a P-plater, or a driver who is in the first two years of their license. And there are no different limits for genders, that's a pretty ridiculous idea.

Over here it's .05 for an open license, 0 for p's (which is 3 years).

[rasputin]

ah my bad, I completely forgot there are variances in state law. So it's even more stricter on P-platers over East.

[funkyhoney]

ah my bad, I completely forgot there are variances in state law. So it's even more stricter on P-platers over East.

They changed the P laws again last July, now there are two levels and you have to wear plates; can't carry x amount of passangers, power restriction, etc. Sucks to be younger than me.

[Alf™]

But seriously, it's only an extra $3 to $4 per four pack. It's not a big enough increase to make a difference to the individuals... but over all it's a lot more revenue.


$3-$4 is a fair bit, in some cases about 20% of the price.

People in this thread fail to realize that their person stories aren't really good examples of how the taxes are failing only that in some instances how the tax isn't effecting some people.

How aren't personal stories good examples? We are giving examples of how it is actually affecting the people.

if the price of alcohol increases, you can't buy as much alcohol. when you can't buy as much alcohol, you don't drink as much.

it's not going to stop people with drinking problems from drinking as much, but very few things will.

I can't believe this concept flew over so many people's heads

um this is just some alcohols so what

That's just the thing, today's urban youth demographic thinks that alcohol is a need.

I'm not upset, I rarely drink them; but they're disillusioned if they think this will do anything at all. Nothing will stop people getting trashed on cheap booze, you can't legislate against stupidity.

lolwhat

lots can stop people drinking

They changed the P laws again last July, now there are two levels and you have to wear plates; can't carry x amount of passangers, power restriction, etc. Sucks to be younger than me.

Isn't that this July?

[Apocalyptic Raids]

It was last year but I'm in NSW, it could be different Victoria.

[Alf™]

Fair enough. Those regulations are a joke. Throws out the whole idea of designated driver.

[rasputin]

There's been plans about similar changes (curfew and limited passengers etc. for P-platers) in the law over here in WA, but it's just been talk for several years now, nothing has actually changed.

[horseypie]

I dont really think its going to stop binge drinking a whole lot, i mean to me its targeting the younger female 'audience' for lack of a better word, since it wont stop guys from drinking beer, goon or mixing their own, so it only targets younge women and really i dont see young women as beinig the main binge drinkers. im most likely wrong and if there's stats out there that contradict me ill take all this back

[Alf™]

I can't see how this, in any way, will stop people drinking. Especially young girls.

[funkyhoney]

Isn't that this July?

They're changing it again this July :rolleyes:

I think it's mainly bike laws getting changed though.

[funkyhoney]

I can't see how this, in any way, will stop people drinking. Especially young girls.

If anything it will make more people drink more because you can buy a bottle of spirits and get more alcohol for less.

[br3ad_man]

That just seems like a complete load of **** to me. But the proof is in the pudding I guess.

[rasputin]

I can't see how this, in any way, will stop people drinking. Especially young girls.
I agree with you, raising the price won't make much of a difference to binge drinking. As has been established already in the thread, the problem lies in the attitude people have towards alcohol, and changing that is close to impossible.

[Smokey D]

If they're gonna drink anyway, why not tax them in order to pay for the costs they generate?

[rasputin]

But then why not just put a ban on all alcohol? It's a bit much to put the millions if not billions of dollars alcohol abuse generates on top of the price of the drink.

[bradc1988]

Yes I'm sure a ban will go down well...

Since that's never going to happen, the Governments are still going to have to foot the bill for all the problems caused by alcohol, so why should the average tax payer have to fund it? Income tax in Australia is too high as it is, taxing people specifically is better imo.

[rasputin]

taxing people specifically is better imo.
That is the simple solution in theory, but the logistics of it would be difficult. You'd need to decide who needs to be taxed on the basis of how much cost they generate to the government from alcohol abuse. Not an easy task.

[Smokey D]

But then why not just put a ban on all alcohol? It's a bit much to put the millions if not billions of dollars alcohol abuse generates on top of the price of the drink.

Because people who can afford to pay for their costs shouldn't be prohibited from doing it.

[bradc1988]

That is the simple solution in theory, but the logistics of it would be difficult. You'd need to decide who needs to be taxed on the basis of how much cost they generate to the government from alcohol abuse. Not an easy task.

Yeah well it'd never be perfect.

I heard they're thinking of offering a rebate on fruit and vegetables, which I don't have a problem with. It's just as good as taxing the overweight/obese tbh.

[rasputin]

I heard they're thinking of offering a rebate on fruit and vegetables, which I don't have a problem with. It's just as good as taxing the fat tbh.
haha, that actually is a great incentive to eat healthier

[Aaron]

Tax the fat.
Don't let smokers access public healthcare.
Bring back prohibition.
Ban non-hybrid cars.

[bradc1988]

Is it wrong of me to agree with some of those? To an extent of course.s

[Smokey D]

Tax fat foods, yes.
Tax alcohol, don't ban it.
Smokers mostly pay for their own healthcare through taxes. Smoking should be strangled, though.
Develop a hybrid infrastructure, paid for by increasing road taxes of non-compliant cars.

[funkyhoney]

Develop a hybrid infrastructure, paid for by increasing road taxes of non-compliant cars.

They sort of do that, you can get a rebate by converting your car to run on LPG.

But that aside, just like smoking, alcohol and fatty foods, no matter how you tax it or how expensive and criminally inefficient it is; people will still buy and use regular/performance cars.

[Smokey D]

That's not true. People have shifted away from large cars to small ones in the past years because of fuel costs. Just becaus the effects aren't immediately apparent doesn't mean they aren't working, slowly.

[rasputin]

I bought a car recently (well, my dad bought it), and the amount of fuel the car used played extremely heavily on which car I purchased.

[funkyhoney]

I bought a car recently (well, my dad bought it), and the amount of fuel the car used played extremely heavily on which car I purchased.

My car gets about 700k's to a tank, however it's a 64L tank, so that equates to about $80 if I'm very lucky these days to fill it to the brim. Never letting it get too low I put about 50-60 in a week though.

Even so, it's a bit too much for a full-time student I think, but instead of buying a car with cheaper running costs I'm getting a new bike... Stupid? Maybe.

But it does exemplify my point that people still want good performance as well as fuel efficiency (well me at least) and 'hybrid car' is not synonymous with 'performance'.

[rasputin]

Well I have a Toyato Corolla and it does 100k for every 7 litres, even less on long trips. Good performance played absolutely no part in choosing the car, I merely wanted a fuel efficient and reliable car. However, I may be an exception because I have close to no interest in cars/mechanics.

[funkyhoney]

Well I have a Toyato Corolla and it does 100k for every 7 litres, even less on long trips. Good performance played absolutely no part in choosing the car, I merely wanted a fuel efficient and reliable car. However, I may be an exception because I have close to no interest in cars/mechanics.

Well I drive a Honda Accord (95) and besides having a mild obsession with Honda bikes I also bought it based on fuel economy, it just happens to perform half-decently to.

But at around 8-9 L per 100k's and the cost of fuel now even that's not viable when I'm trying to get to uni in peak hour traffic with nothing more than a notebook.

My theory is at least 90% of my travel can be done on a bike as I only need to move things once or twice a week for my music.

But rather than buying an expensive hybrid (or trying to find a car with better fuel efficiency that won't cost as much as I have now) I'm going for a bike which combines good economy with performance.

... This is a very long and stupid way of saying I want to enjoy driving/riding and not be poor. Hybrid = no win for me.

[mph4ever]

we have some serious tax changes coming here.

we have 21% vat on any car which is probably standard. but to register any car in ireland you have to pay a vehicle registration tax (vrt)of 30%, even for second hand cars being imported. we also pay road tax based on engine size.

starting july 1st, we will pay vrt % based on the car engine emissions, and we will aslo have road tax that is based on emissions, not size. all existing cars will continue to be taxed the old way but all new cars will have the new rates applied. it can knock €3,000 or €4,000 euro off the vw and €12,000 off a lexus

[rasputin]

Well I drive a Honda Accord (95) and besides having a mild obsession with Honda bikes I also bought it based on fuel economy, it just happens to perform half-decently to.

But at around 8-9 L per 100k's and the cost of fuel now even that's not viable when I'm trying to get to uni in peak hour traffic with nothing more than a notebook.

My theory is at least 90% of my travel can be done on a bike as I only need to move things once or twice a week for my music.

But rather than buying an expensive hybrid (or trying to find a car with better fuel efficiency that won't cost as much as I have now) I'm going for a bike which combines good economy with performance.

... This is a very long and stupid way of saying I want to enjoy driving/riding and not be poor. Hybrid = no win for me.
A bike is definitely a great idea to cut down on fuel costs, especially for a student, but it brings up a whole other debate (for me anyway) concerning the dangers of riding a bike. I've had the unfortunate advantage of witnessing a pretty serious traffic accident involving a motorbike, and it's really affected my views on driving motorbikes.

[funkyhoney]

A bike is definitely a great idea to cut down on fuel costs, especially for a student, but it brings up a whole other debate (for me anyway) concerning the dangers of riding a bike. I've had the unfortunate advantage of witnessing a pretty serious traffic accident involving a motorbike, and it's really affected my views on driving motorbikes.

I've known quite a few people who ride (some who are fine, one has lost a leg below the knee - although it was a legitimate accident, not his fault), and a large(70%+) amount of motorbike accidents are single-vehicle, caused by an inexperienced rider, alcohol, speed, drugs, etc.

You can increase visibility by 34% by simply wearing a helmet, minimising chances of being hit by another vehicle and something around 20% by having your lights on.

The chance of having a major/fatal accident that actively involves other vehicles (not flying off and hitting a pole but being crushed or t-boned for instance) is not that dissimilar to a standard motor vehicle.

[rasputin]

Oh yeah, I'm sure the chances of it happening and the reasons behind it aren't that much different from a car, it's just that you don't have the protective body of the car around you if it does happen :P

[funkyhoney]

Yeah but you can wear Gore-Tex and Kevlar and steel plates...

[Orange Piggy]

Yeah well it'd never be perfect.

I heard they're thinking of offering a rebate on fruit and vegetables, which I don't have a problem with. It's just as good as taxing the overweight/obese tbh.

An apple is already a sixth of the price of a chocolate bar. How much cheaper does it have to get? The obese are addicted to confectionary and fatty foods, so I doubt whether the rational consumer model applies here.

[Smokey D]

Obese people hardly get fat off a chocolate bar. At least part of it is because processed meals are easier and cheaper to cook.

[bradc1988]

An apple is already a sixth of the price of a chocolate bar. How much cheaper does it have to get? The obese are addicted to confectionary and fatty foods, so I doubt whether the rational consumer model applies here.

I don't know if you do your own shopping, but the total vegetables or fruit for a whole meal is quite considerable!

[deadinholywood]

The limit is 0.05 for a full licence, and 0.02 for a P-plater, or a driver who is in the first two years of their licence. And there are no different limits for genders, that's a pretty ridiculous idea.

In Victoria P plate drivers must have a 0.00 BAC however police will not prosecute unless the reading is equal to or greater than 0.020 as it is impossible to prove that the alcohol caused/would cause their driving to be impaired.
Victoria has very strange drink driving laws full stop.

Further to the binge drinking issue, I do not believe that the average 15/16 year old girl will be deterred from drinking by the tax they will just change their drink of choice. The much bigger problem is the 18-25 year old males who have a skin full at some club then take part in assaults/brawls/property damages. The number of assaults that take place over an average weekend in the city of melbourne is astounding.

[Charlie Daniels]

In Victoria P plate drivers must have a 0.00 BAC however police will not prosecute unless the reading is equal to or greater than 0.20 as it is impossible to prove that the alcohol caused/would cause their driving to be impaired.
Well, I'm not sure about you, but by the time I'm at 0.20 BAC I'm pretty damn tanked that's like falling over drunk reading.

I'm going to assume you mean 0.02% BAC?

[mph4ever]

what about this? why don't they just ban any consumption of alcohol or drugs for anyone driving

also, here, it appears that recent data has shown up to 30% of accidents where drink is involved then drugs are also an issue. people indulge so much in things like weed and coke that it surely must cause real problems the next day for their concentration whilst driving.

also, i am putting incidents of road rage down to the after effects of bingeing on drink or drugs, most especially class a, particularly amphetemine based ones

[deadinholywood]

I'm going to assume you mean 0.02% BAC?

Correct.

In response to mph4ever banning it will not stop people from doing it. There are generally two types of drink drivers the "I'm so upset that I went over limit, I only had x amount of drinks and I thought I would be fine" and the "**** you I drink drive all the time and there is nothing that is going to stop me." The former type will usually never do it again and the latter will do it whatever penalty that they get.

Drink/Drug impaired driving already carries harsh penalties in terms of fines and loss of licence for the person committing it. Also it it probably the quickest way to go to jail for a summary offence that i can think of.

Banning it totally would leave the government wallets constantly open to paying court costs as readings between 0.00-0.05 BAC would be contested frequently by offenders arguing that they were not impaired at the time of driving and the prosecution case would lose every time.

[Charlie Daniels]

I've blown a 0.01 after eating a steak in a red wine sauce...

It's also possible to blow 0.01's from eating foods that use minutes amount of alcohol for flavouring, such as rum chocolate etc. etc.

[bradc1988]

Well I read an article in the paper today that cited that sales of alcopops have declined quite a lot but sales of hard liquors has risen sharply.

So the tax increase isn't working how they'd like! And since people aren't buying them any more there's no revenue!

[deadinholywood]

I've blown a 0.01 after eating a steak in a red wine sauce...

It's also possible to blow 0.01's from eating foods that use minutes amount of alcohol for flavouring, such as rum chocolate etc. etc.

Further to that i have seen some very high readings as a result of medications, mouth wash and even lip balm.

[horseypie]

Well I read an article in the paper today that cited that sales of alcopops have declined quite a lot but sales of hard liquors has risen sharply.

So the tax increase isn't working how they'd like! And since people aren't buying them any more there's no revenue!

lol...exactly. alcopops are down 40% but straight liquor is up 20%+. not the best binge drinking stopper kev.

[Charlie Daniels]

Well it's too soon to make any judgements yet, but I'm not surprised by this.

But I'd like to know the volume of total alcohol sales, rather than just percents. I mean, if alcopops were sold at much greater levels than spirits, a 40% decrease in alcopops and 20% increase in spirits would still mean a big cut back in the total amount of drinking going on...