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Kage
05-16-2008, 02:13 AM
...with his current Peace, Consciousness and Creativity campaign (http://www.davidlynchfoundation.org).

My Argument:
Premise 1: Western schools currently mire students in self-doubt and negativity, and often ignore the necessity of mental health.
Premise 2: Consciousness-based education can lead to more positive life outlook and promotes innovation
Conclusion: the promotion of consciousness-based education will improve our society, and possibly our world.
__________________________________________

My experience in regards to the argument:
Unfortunately, anything perceived as slightly “mystical” or left-of-center is immediately and violently cast off by our society (Western—ie, the Americas and Europe) without remorse. I’m reminded of a quote that says, "If you trick people into believing you made them think, they'll love you for it. But if you actually do make them think, they'll hate you for it." I remember a mere year ago I myself said, “oh, I love Lynch as a filmmaker, but all his meditation stuff…it’s just nonsense.” I reckoned myself an open-minded person. But, no, “weirdo” director David Lynch is just a 60-year old hippie peddling something that society hasn’t trained everyone to believe is right, and is therefore rejected.

Anyway, my point is not to stand on a soapbox here. I will relate raw experience in this report and nothing less. All connections have been drawn by myself. I have not been brainwashed by anything; I take in knowledge from all angles and then evaluate it from there. I’m talking about a shift in my life, an absolute change in mindset, and 100% for the better. I have recently experienced what David Lynch describes as “pure consciousness” and “swum” through it in much the same way as what Lynch often expresses in his lectures.

Now, Lynch achieves this through meditation, and, while there are plenty of other methods for this type of consciousness exploration, going into detail about methodology will only open a whole whirlwind of futile political debates that are completely irrelevant to the topic at hand (straw-men people love to grab at). Now, forget about what you may or may not know about meditation; forget about the alleged corruption in the “Transcendental Meditation” hierarchy; forget about David Lynch as a filmmaker or cultural icon, and really think about the message.

Lynch’s theory is that through attaining and utilizing a state of “pure consciousness,” a more peaceful state of life can be reached. He’s right. He maintains that a person who partakes in this type of self-discovery will often be lifted out of depression and be able to maintain a positive mindset about life. He says people will become more spiritual. A person will be energized and desire to learn, grow, and experience new things. He says people’s eating habits will change.

That latest one is the most tangible one on the list, and it’s the one that truly made this all click in my mind. It happened without me thinking about it. An ex-fast food junkie, I am now, after experiencing “pure consciousness,” subconsciously drawn to fruits and vegetables (mind you, I still eat meat, but keep it light). I exercise daily—nay I yearn for exercise daily. I am in better physical shape than I have been in my entire life. My eating habits are unbelievably healthy. No Atkins diet, just an organic mindset. I began to really see and reject the active poisons in my life, whether it be the greasy foods that clogged my arteries or the self-doubt in my mindset. All it took was a spiritual cleansing; physical and mental come along with it.

I have spent the last few months of my life witnessing all the self-doubt, all the anxiety, all the mental anguish instilled into my very being by my Western society, melt away. I am able to, for perhaps the first time in my entire life, approach life with optimism and excitement rather than obligation and unending grind. As a writer/artist, ideas have begun flooding in like a waterfall. I have an increased interest in connecting to the world around me, its history, its people. I realize now I had spent the last years of my life believing I was happy, believing I thought for myself, but I now know I was wrong. I was just as close-minded as everyone else.

As Lynch says, I’ve come to several spiritual revelations. No religions, no organizations, just personal discovery (although my interest in learning about Eastern religion/art/mythology/cultures has also increased tenfold—I want to experience whatever is out there). I am instilled with miraculous self-confidence I never knew I had. I have the confidence now pursue what feels right in my life. I find myself desiring to be positive, and to try to help the people I care about remain positive as well, whereas I used to dwell in negativity. I am no longer bothered by the day-to-day annoyances of life as I used to be. I am accepting of people, and enjoy finding out about who people are. I am no longer bothered if I disagree with someone—in fact, I thrive on the differences.

The thing is, I first read about all this stuff over a year ago, and at the time rejected it. I was not ready to shift my perspective, no matter how open-minded I thought I was.

Unfortunately, the majority of people simply do not want their very notion of reality to be shifted. We grow up with a certain set of ideals and most people will never truly look at life from a totally different perspective. Most people simply don’t realize how awful and full of useless negativity our society is—and ultimately how closed off to the experiences of the world it really is. They’re used to it, so they don’t wanna change. Everything is what is, so that’s that. Even looking on this message board, most people here buy into the way our society is structured. The Career is everything, and success is always defined by monetary standards. The sad fact is, no one really thinks for himself; life is a set way because society says it is and so few people ever question that at its most basic core.

I fully believe that the promotion of consciousness-based education will improve our society, and possibly our world. In fact, I think it might be the only way. Schools mire students in self-doubt and rage; why don’t we base schools around teaching students to be more open-minded, to be CONFIDENT, to desire to learn and innovate, to be EXCITED about life rather than DREADING all its useless obligations? Because it’s “odd” and “out there?” Westerners are obligated to worry—and yet, as Baz Luhrmann would say, the true problems in our life are things we could have never foreseen to worry about in the first place! We’re taught “real life” can only exist on the streets and that any mystical revelation we come to is new age bullshit that never earned anyone a dime. Well, **** a dime, god damn it!

Now, it’s not about denying the problems in the world—quite the contrary. The world is a dark place no doubt, and it’s not about not acknowledging all aspects of the world, it’s about finding a way to channel everything into positivity, as much as possible.

PerpetualBurn
05-16-2008, 09:23 AM
That was all very nice.

I can't find where you had an actual argument though.

All you did was tell me not to be so close-minded and how wonderful pure consciousness and meditation are.

Kage
05-16-2008, 12:16 PM
I never said I was making an argument--I said I was relating raw experience.

However, the argument is found in this paragraph

I fully believe that the promotion of consciousness-based education will improve our society, and possibly our world. In fact, I think it might be the only way. Schools mire students in self-doubt and rage; why don’t we base schools around teaching students to be more open-minded, to be CONFIDENT, to desire to learn and innovate, to be EXCITED about life rather than DREADING all its useless obligations? Because it’s “odd” and “out there?” Westerners are obligated to worry—and yet, as Baz Luhrmann would say, the true problems in our life are things we could have never foreseen to worry about in the first place! We’re taught “real life” can only exist on the streets and that any mystical revelation we come to is new age bullpoop that never earned anyone a dime. Well, **** a dime, god damn it!


Premise 1: Western schools currently mire students in self-doubt and negativity
Premise 2: Consciousness-based education can lead to more positive life outlook and promotes innovation
Conclusion: the promotion of consciousness-based education will improve our society, and possibly our world.

There's my argument laid out clear. The rest is packaging, yeah, but it's raw experience that I feel I can share so I did.

All you did was tell me not to be so close-minded and how wonderful pure consciousness and meditation are.
I'm sorry but could you tell me where I said anything evaluating pure consciousness or meditation? No. In fact, I said to completely forget about meditating or any other "method" and I analyzed what I've come to see as the results of pure consciousness, not the state itself, based on the writings of not only Lynch but millions of others, and how closely that relates to my own experience.

Lufnoops
05-16-2008, 12:26 PM
I meditate, but not transcendental meditation, and I didn't learn it anywhere, just followed basic concepts for breathing and focusing. So I read about David Lynch and his transcendental meditation somewhere and I consulted wikipedia to see if this was some cooler kind of meditation I should try and then there was a segment down the page that said this...

Cult issues

In 1987, the Cult Awareness Network (CAN) held a press conference and demonstration in Washington, D.C., saying that the Transcendental Meditation technique “seeks to strip individuals of their ability to think and choose freely.” Steve Hassan, author of several books on cults, and at one time a CAN deprogrammer, said in the same press conference that those who practice the Transcendental Meditation technique display cult-like behaviors.[49] These cult-like tendencies were described in Michael A. Persinger's book, TM and Cult Mania, published in 1980.[50]

David Orme-Johnson, former faculty member at Maharishi University of Management (at which all students and faculty practice the Transcendental Meditation technique daily) who has researched the Transcendental Meditation technique and the paranormal Maharishi Effect, cites studies by Schecter[51], Alexander [52], and Pelletier[53] showing greater autonomy, innovative thought, and increases in creativity, general intelligence and moral reasoning in those who practice the Transcendental Meditation technique. According to Orme–Johnson cult followers operate on blind faith and adherence to arbitrary rules and authority, and these studies indicate the ability of those who practice the Transcendental Meditation technique to make mature, independent, principle-based judgments. [4]

and then I decided against reading further but Idk anytime I see the word cult I jam the hell out of wherever wherever fast.

Kage
05-16-2008, 12:29 PM
I meditate, but not transcendental meditation, and I didn't learn it anywhere, just followed basic concepts for breathing and focusing. So I read about David Lynch and his transcendental meditation somewhere and I consulted wikipedia to see if this was some cooler kind of meditation I should try and then there was a segment down the page that said this...



and then I decided against reading further but Idk anytime I see the word cult I jam the hell out of wherever wherever fast.
See, this is exactly what I'm saying. Did you not read my post? Yes, Lynch is a goon for the Transcendental Meditation school, but I asked you to FORGET about all that. My point was, you don't have to pay thousands to study at a phony "cult" university. I certainly am not. Forget about all the bullshit like and try and consider what is actually being said.

The fact taht you meditate on your own is awesome, and I'm surprised more of what I"m saying isn't resonating with you based on that. I also am a self-taught meditator, but I also use other means in combination with it.

Hababi
05-16-2008, 12:46 PM
Lynch is an idiot who makes terrible movies and worse political statements (see his endorsement of 9/11 conspiracies).

Lufnoops
05-16-2008, 12:47 PM
dude serenity you are an idiot for condemning people to idiocy for a single aspect of their output/conviction/idea

maybe that was ironic of me

Kage
05-16-2008, 12:47 PM
Dear god, people just love grabbing at strawmen.

Whatever, thanks for reading.

Lufnoops
05-16-2008, 12:50 PM
serenity's likes the firefly series yet bashes david lynch's movies

cmon

Hababi
05-16-2008, 12:52 PM
serenity's likes the firefly series yet bashes david lynch's movies

cmon

Lynch's movies are senseless self indulgant messes.


dude serenity you are an idiot for condemning people to idiocy for a single aspect of their output/conviction/idea


Believing in 9/11 conspiracies makes one an irredeemable idiot.

Kage
05-16-2008, 12:52 PM
I re-arranged the first post so the actual argument is more streamlined and clear, and the other stuff takes a back seat to it. Thanks for pointing out the ambiguity, Perpetualburn.

All we can do is share our own insights into this issue. If anyone has any experience contradicting my own, or if anyone wants to actually debate the argument I've presented, please speak up. Maybe we can get something out of this instead of getting caught up in immaturity.

guitrguy
05-16-2008, 01:46 PM
I have actually have experienced the meditation you are describing. It has helped me to get out of my depressive funks, appreciate life more, and too be more open-minded towards other people.

PerpetualBurn
05-16-2008, 02:00 PM
Premise 1: Western schools currently mire students in self-doubt and negativity
Premise 2: Consciousness-based education can lead to more positive life outlook and promotes innovation
Conclusion: the promotion of consciousness-based education will improve our society, and possibly our world.

You pulled premise one out of your arse.

You never defined the wishy-washy term "consciousness-based education" and explained how it leads to "positive life outlook" and innovation.

I'm sorry but could you tell me where I said anything evaluating pure consciousness or meditation?

Ok. So you introduced hippie terms and never explained their relevance to anything.

No. In fact, I said to completely forget about meditating or any other "method" and I analyzed what I've come to see as the results of pure consciousness, not the state itself, based on the writings of not only Lynch but millions of others, and how closely that relates to my own experience.

Okay, but if you didn't evaluate pure consciousness, then you don't get to tell us about how it leads to wonderful things.

Like you did just now, after you said you didn't do it nor did you intend to.

Kage
05-16-2008, 02:30 PM
You pulled premise one out of your arse.

You never defined the wishy-washy term "consciousness-based education" and explained how it leads to "positive life outlook" and innovation.
I agree they are all wishy-washy terms and I apologize for it. I simply have no other way to describe them because, the fact is, that the experiences I'm talking about are all very subjective and personal so it is really hard to explain them without being vague. Maybe you can help me define the terms by discussing it with me rather than attacking me?

I can give you stats for premise one, but generally stats like that tend to be just as wishy washy as all the terms I'm using. The thing about it is, can you really contradict premise 1 based on your own experiences? That's all we really have to go on here.

From an article I found published in the Journal of School Health 78.1 (Jan 2008):

approximately 22% of [middle school students surveyed] stated they needed help for depression. Yet, 41% of students surveyed reported discomfort approaching someone at school for help. Up to 30% did not feel optimistic about the future. Alarmingly, 23% seriously contemplated suicide, and of this 23%, almost 43% attempted suicide. (3)

That's just middle school. Think of the high school and college stats. Add that to the fact that most middle school kids couldn't articulate their negative feelings, and a lot most likely would not know what to say when asked if they are 'depressed' or if they are happy.

Okay, but if you didn't evaluate pure consciousness, then you don't get to tell us about how it leads to wonderful things.

Like you did just now, after you said you didn't do it nor did you intend to.
What?

Lufnoops
05-16-2008, 02:44 PM
ive always thought of my own meditation as a way to escape context into some kind of awareness of timelessness, which facilitates a sense of contentment and loosens the contingencies of context (time and place, and their implications) and the effects that those contingencies have on your mind that may cause anxieties, feelings of dread at being locked into or obligated to society and people.

i think every1 should know this is possible

Smokey D
05-16-2008, 11:28 PM
My point was, you don't have to pay thousands to study at a phony "cult" university. I certainly am not.

Don't you go to film school

/zing

Can you explain conscious based education a little better?

:amaze:
05-17-2008, 05:15 AM
My point was, you don't have to pay thousands to study at a phony "cult" university.

the promotion of consciousness-based education will improve our society, and possibly our world.

hmm. seem a bit contradictory to anyone else?




:amaze:

VomitStainedCretin
05-17-2008, 04:49 PM
Being an uber philosemite makes one an irredeemable idiot.Fixed. Hooray for Ad Hominum arguments. The character of a person as opposed to their logic does indeed negate any propositions they forward.

And yes, this super-duper Kantfuscian Mastication Technique will be the global panacea so long sought.

Hababi
05-17-2008, 05:00 PM
Fixed. Hooray for Ad Hominum arguments. The character of a person as opposed to their logic does indeed negate any propositions they forward.

And yes, this super-duper Kantfuscian Mastication Technique will be the global panacea so long sought.

No see believing in 9/11 conspiracies shows an embarrassing lack of logic. If you want to listen to a conspiracy nut then that's your thing.

BassRevelation1029
05-17-2008, 05:24 PM
Steve, I don't know where the forums would be without you.

VomitStainedCretin
05-17-2008, 05:32 PM
No see believing in 9/11 conspiracies shows an embarrassing lack of logic.As does using Ad Hominem's to dismiss the entirety of a person's opinions.

JohnXDoe
05-17-2008, 07:27 PM
david lynch is a fine artist with sensibilities that suit him. which is fine.

Wild At Heart is extraordinary