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View Full Version : from "the last hours of ancient sunlight" by thom hartmann


joshmay
05-13-2008, 07:14 PM
for the first 194,000 years of humanity's 200,000 year history, humans viewed the world and its living creatures as sacred, as having souls or spirits. a person who caused permanent harm to that world was condemned as insane and banished from the tribe. the members of the tribe realized that he was destroying the world of his children's children, an unthinkable and aberrant act.

the ancient peoples understood: when you kick your mother (earth), she kicks back. she does not roll over and submit to her own death.

...

our dominator culture is, in many ways, a cult of death. our leaders and image-makers seem to love war. the sue the term to describe actions we consider good, such as the 'war on poverty' or the 'war on illiteracy' or the 'war on drugs'. ironically, our war on insects has brought us an actual increase in insect-caused crop losses over the past 40 years. our antibiotic war on germs has brought us new and incredibly virulent forms of easily transmitted, common, and now lethal bacteria. and, of course, human warfare has caused indescribable death and destruction to generations since he beginning of our warrior civilizations seven thousand years ago.

oscar wilde was absolutely correct, in my opinion: war is vulgar. the continual glorification of this killing through nationalism and media and dominant culture in general only guarantees more pain and human suffering in the future. the mythos of the warrior-hero is intrinsic to industrialized culture east and west. this mythos enabled hitler to gain the support of his people as he moved against neighboring states. this enabled tojo to do the same in his war against china. this cultural myth ensured that 'pioneers' who 'conquered the west' would be viewed romantically by americans (and other nationalities).

one cannot fight against war: one can only see it for the vulgarity it is and choose, as the shoshone people did for ten thousand years, to walk away from it.

somewhere along the line our culture came up with the idea that everything on the planet exists for us. no matter that a forest may be filled with other life-forms, from mammals to lizards to birds to insects: because the world was made for us we can wipe it out and convert the soil to the production of human food

this and the war mythos are inextricably intertwined.

if another non-human life form begins to compete with our younger culture for our food or the space to grow that food, we exterminate it.

on the other side of human culture are people who see other lifeforms as having the same right to the earth as do humans. these peoples' cultures are usually organized in the tribal/cooperative/community fashion, and just as they work to cooperate with other humans, they also cooperate with nature. while they may (and do) compete with other species for food, they do not destroy those competitors. as daniel quinn so elegantly points out in 'ishmael', the concept of 'you may compete but you may not destroy your competitors' is one of the basic laws of nature. with very few exceptions, animals and plants compete with each other for food and access to sunlight energy, but they do not set out to utterly destroy other species as part of that competition.

this concept of competition- as an alternative to genocidal warfare- is one that we desperately need to incorporate into the weave of our cultural fabric. doing so begins with a critical mass of individuals seeing and understanding its importance, and sharing that story with others. as we see and share and change, we begin the process of transforming humanity and the world.

in small ways we can begin this- organic gardening, for example, competing with the insects and weeds for our food but not exterminating them.

in larger ways, we can do this economically by doing commerce as much as possible with local vendors, building the local community. i was at a talk bill mckibben gave at milbrook college in vermont, and he told the new students how he lives a "one store" policy : if there is more than one of a store, he doesn't patronize it.

what an elegant statement of the renunciation of the type of economic "take no enemies" warfare that has laid waste to small, family-operated businesses and local economies across the world!

and in the largest ways, we can work to create cooperative businesses and communities which operate on this principle, to infiltrate the concept into government, to spread the idea through our writing and speaking.


this is just a small part of the bigger picture the book discusses.

thoughts? (on the ideas, not the work itself)

Smokey D
05-13-2008, 09:20 PM
Noble savage theories are pretty lame. Where's his evidence?

There have been plenty of pre-monotheistic cultures that destroyed themselves through careless resource management. North American Indians, who are popularly portrayed as being at one with nature, terminated themselves with appalling regularity.

As for his conclusion that world peace can be achieved by local vendors and such, if anything history demonstrates that paying attention to peculiarly local demands has a far more pernicious effect on peace and good government than a more global attitude.

jaredong
05-13-2008, 11:22 PM
i think war isnt "bad" per say. sometimes its plenty necessary. its something that shouldnt be taken upon lightly, but it shouldnt be avoided at all costs.

i dont think war should be used to utterly destroy the enemy utterly either. i dont think war *has* been used like that all the time. lots of times i'd think nations want to keep the enemy at least surviving lest a power vacuum in the region causes more disorder.

although i agree, we should make moves to be more environmentally friendly as well as having a stronger local community spirit.

Amit
05-14-2008, 12:29 AM
needs actual evidence

joshmay
05-14-2008, 12:38 AM
i think one reason people argue against "noble savage theories" is to justify the impact that their current culture and lifestyle generates. (im not excluding myself here)


where's the proof? our current reality.

Amit
05-14-2008, 01:52 AM
no i mean he needs proof for his noble savage bullshit

Smokey D
05-14-2008, 01:54 AM
Read Collapse by Jared Diamond.

That gives plenty of examples when non-Western, non-capitalist, non-Christian societies destroyed themselves.

VomitStainedCretin
05-15-2008, 10:14 AM
Read Collapse by Jared Diamond.

That gives plenty of examples when non-Western, non-capitalist, non-Christian societies destroyed themselves.Easter Island being the perfect example. Apparently, due to the misuse of resources and civil war, the island's population had crashed to 20% of what it had been at its peak prior to the arrival of the europeans (who reduced it further).

Jude
05-15-2008, 10:34 AM
The moral: all humans are ****ing douches, not just modern western ones

joshmay
05-15-2008, 09:39 PM
Easter Island being the perfect example. Apparently, due to the misuse of resources and civil war, the island's population had crashed to 20% of what it had been at its peak prior to the arrival of the europeans (who reduced it further).


this is true, but easter island was some unique circumstances too. i think this is the exception rather than the rule

Jude
05-15-2008, 09:58 PM
Primitive, excuse the word, societies destroy themselves/each other just as well as modern ones. We just have the technology to do it on a bigger scale, is the only difference.

So in a way, I guess they are better than us...they just kill themselves and maybe a little patch of the earth; we're taking the whole race and planet with us.

Smokey D
05-15-2008, 10:33 PM
this is true, but easter island was some unique circumstances too. i think this is the exception rather than the rule

No. Not true.

Easter Island, Pitcairn Islanders, Anasazi, Maya all collapsed. There are thousands of examples of civilizations which developed in unsustainable ways and reaped the consequences.

Chrysostom
05-16-2008, 04:54 PM
And with that in mind, one begins to wonder if humanity has it within itself to actually develop in a sustainable way.

Mister Groovy
05-17-2008, 10:47 AM
Probably not tbh

VomitStainedCretin
05-17-2008, 04:53 PM
Soylent Green will provide the solution for all problems of sustainability.