Florida Substitute accused of Wizardry

[Seafroggys]

Land 'O Lakes, Florida -- The stories in the news about inappropriate relationships between teachers and students have been overwhelming. There was even a substitute teacher in New Port Richey who got in trouble after investigators say she had a relationship with an underage student.

Well, another Pasco County substitute teacher's job is on the line, but this time it's because of a magic trick.

The charge from the school district — Wizardry!

Substitute teacher Jim Piculas does a 30-second magic trick where a toothpick disappears then reappears.

But after performing it in front of a classroom at Rushe Middle School in Land 'O Lakes, Piculas said his job did a disappearing act of its own.

"I get a call the middle of the day from the supervisor of substitute teachers. He says, 'Jim, we have a huge issue. You can't take any more assignments. You need to come in right away,'" he said.

When Piculas went in, he learned his little magic trick cast a spell that went much farther than he'd hoped.

"I said, 'Well Pat, can you explain this to me?' 'You've been accused of wizardry,' [he said]. Wizardry?" he asked.

Tampa Bay's 10 talked to the assistant superintendent with the Pasco County School District who said it wasn't just the wizardry and that Picular had other performance issues, including "not following lesson plans" and allowing students to play on unapproved computers.

Piculas said he knew nothing about the accusations.

"That... I think was embellished after the fact to try to cover what initially what they were saying to me," he said.

After the magic trick, Rushe's principal requested Piculas be dismissed. Now, Piculas believes the incident may have bewitched his ability to get a job anywhere else.

"I still have no idea what my discipline involves because I've never received anything from the school district actually saying what it entails," said Piculas.

As a substitute teacher, the Pasco County School District considers Piculas to be an "at will employee." That means the district doesn't need to have cause for not bringing him back at all.

http://www.tampabays10.com/news/local/article.aspx?storyid=79533

Like.....say what?

[Linkinbassist]

...

Society dies today.

[Against Miik!]

It's all that damn Harry Potter those kids are reading these days.

It's readings fault. I propose a ban.

[dei]

And people get on my case when I say the South needs to be nuked.

[beso negro]

maybe he pulled the "disappearing penis in the 10th grade girl" trick.

[Akira]

Dave Barry is right. America would be so much better off if we kicked Florida out of the Union.

:p

[dei]

Why stop with Florida? Kick out all the Southern states. Oh, and the Midwest, too.

[BridgeToSolace]

Are you sure they weren't kidding about the wizardry thing?

Because I think they were kidding. The dude wasn't doing what he was supposed to, so they outed him. They just had some fun at the same time.

[Against Miik!]

Why stop with Florida? Kick out all the Southern states. Oh, and the Midwest, too.

Where would you consider the midwest to start?

[dei]

Which ones are red?

[Against Miik!]

As of the last election?

It wasn't my fault I swear!

[Amit]

yeah the midwest (other than chicago which doesn't really count) sux

[Mr. Ron]

I've always supported nuclear annihilation of the south and parts of the Midwest.

[Seafroggys]

maybe he pulled the "disappearing penis in the 10th grade girl" trick.

I like that trick

[stevensonmat2]

I've always supported nuclear annihilation of the south and parts of the Midwest.

dude im in the south

[Mr. Ron]

dude im in the south

fly up here bro

[1338 h4x0r]

Did he take the dark tunnel?

[PerpetualBurn]

It doesn't say anywhere that he denies wizardry.

Why haven't we burned him yet?

[krovvy]

I think we should bring back crucifixion tbqh.

[1338 h4x0r]

When it's Pat Robertson's turn, I want to help drop the cross in the posthole.

[Reaganista]

Dave Barry is right. America would be so much better off if we kicked Florida out of the Union.

:p

the only states that should be allowed are states who both sent delegates to the constitutional convention and fought for the union in the civil war anywhere else is not america

[Danger Bird]

Dave Barry is right. America would be so much better off if we kicked Florida out of the Union.

:p
Ceding Florida was Spain's curse to the US.

[dei]

the only states that should be allowed are states who both sent delegates to the constitutional convention and fought for the union in the civil war anywhere else is not america

That is pretty much the entire Southern United States and Oklahoma, Arizona and New Mexico.

[Reaganista]

huh i think you've misunderstood

[dei]

Your mother!

[WhoDidTheElf]

Meh same thing as people, over here on the west coast, suing over coffee being to hot. Bunch of idiots imo.

[dei]

Yeah but at least we are liberal.

[WhoDidTheElf]

Conservatism > Liberalism

so idc.

[dei]

No, that's not true.

[dinosaurxbrocore]

wow, that is retarded

[WhoDidTheElf]

Arguing with opinions is what's retarded.

[dinosaurxbrocore]

i was referring to the article, but whatever

[WhoDidTheElf]

My b...

/slinks out the back door

[dei]

Arguing with opinions is what's retarded.

It's not an opinion, it's fact.

[Iscariot]

this is florida getting revenge for us screwing over their votes

[Ghoul Hustler]

Why stop with Florida? Kick out all the Southern states. Oh, and the Midwest, too.

yeah because the North isn't just as if not more ****ing annoying and full of idiots.

[Sunshine]

It's not an opinion, it's fact.

And by fact, you mean opinion.

[sr800bkBassist]

i hate Wizards.

[descendents1]

i hate wizards too but they're known for their teaching skills, which is why I am so surprised by this floridian decision

[Shred Danson]

I couldn't help but laugh my *** off when I read that..

Wizardry...serious ****in' problem here in our States.

And people get on my case when I say the South needs to be nuked.

you need to be nuked :mad:

[siva_chair]

the only states that should be allowed are states who both sent delegates to the constitutional convention and fought for the union in the civil war anywhere else is not america

Sweet my state is safe. We were pretty much started to keep America safe from stupid *** Missouri.


I was hoping he shot some kid with a magic missle or a fireball. No such luck.

[Iscariot]

Conservatism > Liberalism

so idc.

yeah srsly

arguing for moral and biblical rights and crushing free speech and raising taxes on the lower classes totally pwns freedom

republicans should just move to the uk if they love being ruled with an iron fist so much they should leave america to those of us who value real freedom

[siva_chair]

yeah the uk doesn't even allow handguns.

what assholes.

[Amit]

love the location btw siva

[siva_chair]

love the location btw siva

Thanks broseph. Like the Marmaduke.

[WhoDidTheElf]

yeah srsly

arguing for moral and biblical rights and crushing free speech and raising taxes on the lower classes totally pwns freedom

republicans should just move to the uk if they love being ruled with an iron fist so much they should leave america to those of us who value real freedom

Do not confuse republicans with conservatives please.

[dub sean]

Why didn't they just dismiss him for 'not following lesson plans and allowing students to play games on unapproved computers?' Why bother bringing a magic trick into this?

Those seem to be grounds for dismissal to me...

[Reaganista]

Sweet my state is safe. We were pretty much started to keep America safe from stupid *** Missouri.

and not or

[Akira]

Wait until fall 2009 when I move to DC to bomb the Midwest.

[dei]

I want there to be another civil war.

[1338 h4x0r]

Wait until fall 2009 when I move to DC to bomb the Midwest.

Don't get yourself put on the tay-rurr-ist watch list, pal.

[Akira]

Meh, it's just the Midwest. And I'm not the one who wants the Midwest to get blown up. I just think we should kick Florida out of the country.

[1338 h4x0r]

tay-rurr-ism

[Iscariot]

Wait until fall 2009 when I move to DC to bomb the Midwest.

i just linked the fbi to this post

[mph4ever]

i just linked the fbi to this post


on past performance, they still wouldn't notice, fu'cking below intelligence

[Iscariot]

well i talked to them and they were all, "sir this is agent moulder and this is my partner agent scully we're federal agents"

so i'm assuming they're on top of things

[mph4ever]

still, i wouldn't mind gillian being on top of things, in her day

[Iscariot]

she's still in her day

in my latest issue of maxim there's a gillian anderson spread

i'll scan it hold on

[mph4ever]

sweet

[Iscariot]

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u227/jared_keltz/IMG_0002.jpg
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u227/jared_keltz/IMG_0001.jpg
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u227/jared_keltz/IMG_0003.jpg

[thunderzstruck]

yeah the midwest (other than chicago which doesn't really count) sux

actually minnesota is quite nice

[mph4ever]

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u227/jared_keltz/IMG_0002.jpg
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u227/jared_keltz/IMG_0001.jpg
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u227/jared_keltz/IMG_0003.jpg

hmmmm, keepin' it together alright

[thirdeyeblindislit]

That is pretty much the entire Southern United States and Oklahoma, Arizona and New Mexico.

I live in Arizona. The state of John Mckain....

I feel so dirty. :(

[PerpetualBurn]

High contrast makes past their best redheads sexier.

[Seafroggys]

:O

She still wins

[mph4ever]

High contrast makes past their best redheads sexier.


so too does air brushing but who cares, aint as if we are ever going to get the chance to see her faults her in real life.

if we can't seem them, they aint there

[Steerpike]

Speaking as the resident magician, this is embarassingly stupid for America that we still have citizens who get spooked by hokey parlor tricks.

And the trick he used was Criss Angel's disappearing toothpick. The one he taught on national TV!

Man, I hate the south. They could have just fired his *** for negligence, but no they had to bring up this retarded wizardry nonsense.

Hey Florida! Don't try to bullshit a bullshitter.

[1338 h4x0r]

How is it that most of the greatest astronauts have come from that giant swamp

[Aaron]

:lol:

[McP3000]

they were trained in the amazingly beautiful state of texas and shipped off only for the flight

get your facts straight BUB

[1338 h4x0r]

To clarify, by "giant swamp", I mean the South in general, and the Deep South in particular, not Florida. I just can't imagine how they produced all these great astronauts.

[McP3000]

your blatant, unfounded hate for the south is shining through like a damn rainbow

[1338 h4x0r]

your blatant, unfounded hate for the south is shining through like a damn rainbow

I have brohams from the South. They're not all the same, obviously. I'm just saying there tends to be a lot more retarded religious fundamentalism down there than in other parts of the US.

[Smokey D]

Red state blue state is pretty inaccurate since if you look at a county by county breakdown you see that most of the US is actually purple.

[1338 h4x0r]

I'm sure of it! Austin is a rather extreme example of that kind of thing. But there is more religious nuttery in, say, Alabama than in, say, Maine. Or Pennsylvania for that matter.

[Reaganista]

your blatant, unfounded hate for the south is shining through like a damn rainbow

unfounded wtf is unfounded about hatred for the south they invaded us

[Amit]

seriously

except for hip hop, the south sucks dick

[Smokey D]

South Asia more like.

[Amit]

since when did you get a snappish module downstreamed into your neural circuitry >:[

[Iscariot]

seriously

except for hip hop, the south sucks dick

southern food > all other food ever

dirty rice and shrimp gumbo ftmfw

[Amit]

southern food is quite nice yeah true

but just like hip hop, that's black people inspired

so i guess what we have learned today is that black people rock but the south doesn't

[Iscariot]

is there anything better than cornbread

i think not

[Steerpike]

so i guess what we have learned today is that black people rock but the south doesn't

I can roll with that.

Is there anything good black people have done that white people didn't steal?

[Iscariot]

cornbread

[1338 h4x0r]

I can roll with that.

Is there anything good black people have done that white people didn't steal?

Black ... people? Don't even joke about that!

[dinosaurxbrocore]

the man did sin against humanity

[siva_chair]

Wait until fall 2009 when I move to DC to bomb the Midwest.

Bring it on.

well i talked to them and they were all, "sir this is agent moulder and this is my partner agent scully we're federal agents"

so i'm assuming they're on top of things

Hey I hope they come to my town we have had lots of UFO activity in the past.


she's still in her day

in my latest issue of maxim there's a gillian anderson spread

i'll scan it hold on

Oh please kthx.

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u227/jared_keltz/IMG_0002.jpg
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u227/jared_keltz/IMG_0001.jpg
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u227/jared_keltz/IMG_0003.jpg

NIIICCCEEE

Seriously how can she still be so damn foxey after all these years?

I can roll with that.

Is there anything good black people have done that white people didn't steal?

Black on black crime.

[dei]

Just because it's a UFO doesn't mean it is an alien spacecraft.

[Seafroggys]

If a WWII fighter pilot saw an F-16, it would be a UFO.

[1338 h4x0r]

if I saw your mom, it would be an Unidentified Fat Object

[Steerpike]

Black on black crime.

I meant good things. Like jazz, cajun food, etc.

[1338 h4x0r]

******s killing other ******s is ALWAYS a good thing

duh

[shadowswithin]

more religious nuttery in, say, Alabama than in, say, Mainei'll go with that, we have zip up here for religious nuts

[sr800bkBassist]

anyone been to florida? it's very different from the rest of the south. geographically and it's a lot more diverse. still not the most amazing place, but it's WAY different from Alabama and the like. it's a very regional state, it may have a backcountry type region but a couple hundred miles west you're suddenly on a tropical beach.

and same with all the midwest-hatin'. there's some great stuff out there. pretty much any of the college towns will be just as cool and un-fundamentalist as any west or east coast city. there's a lot of flat land, soybean and corn fields but if you have patience and know the right places, the midwest is actually really rad.

I can roll with that.

Is there anything good black people have done that white people didn't steal?

soul music?
and funky churches.

[Route One]

I like Florida, but i couldn't live there.

[Iscariot]

If a WWII fighter pilot saw an F-16, it would be a UFO.

that's fine and great but f-16 fighter jets did not exist during the foo fighter phenomenon

[Russell]

I meant good things. Like jazz, cajun food, etc.

Thats the only thing thats makes the gulf coast bearable.

[beastman168]

Everything white people stole from blacks hasn't been good. Just look at aids...

[Iscariot]

what about things black people have stolen from white people like country music

http://youtube.com/watch?v=1ikLtYF8Y3Q

[Amit]

ok jared true but that backdraft (more like blackdraft bahahah) is very very rare

[Russell]

what about things black people have stolen from white people like country music

http://youtube.com/watch?v=1ikLtYF8Y3Q

lol thats the first time I actually ever heard him.

[Iscariot]

rofl blackdraft

but they're stealing our black metal too (lol the plot thickens)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=i6nrglujp1U

if i didn't know any better i would say that drummer was dipped in chocolate but he's METAL CHOCOLATE

[Iscariot]

oh yeah and speaking of black drummers look at who stole pop-punk from whitey

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Rojm9G9u9Zg

[sr800bkBassist]

technichally, rock in general was stolen from black people. so all the black metal (hahaha double meaning) and black pop punk bands are really just reclaiming what they started.

hell, they even invented the banjo.

[Smokey D]

Not really. Rock was a new thing created by a synthesis of white and black music styles.

[mph4ever]

as much as it pains me to say it, dwayne allman invented rock, bunch of smelly hippies

[sr800bkBassist]

Not really. Rock was a new thing created by a synthesis of white and black music styles.

which side was the white one?

RnB came from black people, blues came from black people.
the only legitimate american white music would be bluegrass, and even then, one of the principle instruments (banjo) was a black people instrument. but early rock didn't ever feel very bluegrassy, it kind of stayed separate.

[Smokey D]

Er.... guitars and other European instruments.

European concepts of melody and rhythm, country music etc etc.

the only legitimate american white music would be bluegrass,

Well yeah my point is that rock isn't exclusively black or white but that it's derived from two separate musical traditions. And I'm not saying it's derived solely from white American music.

[siva_chair]

Just because it's a UFO doesn't mean it is an alien spacecraft.

Oh and it probably isn't. There are lots of government bases around here. Probably just new flight technology. I still want Scully to come and investigate. The UFO will just be something to distract Mulder while I hang out with Scully.

I meant good things. Like jazz, cajun food, etc.

Hey man some people say that is a good thing that's all I'm saying.

which side was the white one?

RnB came from black people, blues came from black people.
the only legitimate american white music would be bluegrass, and even then, one of the principle instruments (banjo) was a black people instrument. but early rock didn't ever feel very bluegrassy, it kind of stayed separate.

R&B and Blues came from Negro spirituals which were pretty much the lovechild between traditional African music and white gospel music of the church. Thus the reason they developed in America and not in Africa.

[sr800bkBassist]

Oh and it probably isn't. There are lots of government bases around here. Probably just new flight technology. I still want Scully to come and investigate. The UFO will just be something to distract Mulder while I hang out with Scully.



Hey man some people say that is a good thing that's all I'm saying.



R&B and Blues came from Negro spirituals which were pretty much the lovechild between traditional African music and white gospel music of the church. Thus the reason they developed in America and not in Africa.

i was mainly trying to say that whether or not they were african or african-american, white people still didn't do it.


on a side note i don't know if this is still tricking people or not, but i'm not black. people tend to associate me with my avatar.

[siva_chair]

i was mainly trying to say that whether or not they were african or african-american, white people still didn't do it.

No one is trying to take that away from the black chappies. The point was, if it weren't for the white influences it probably wouldn't have happened. The important thing to remember is that these styles of music are distinctly American. Black or white it really doesn't matter.

[Smokey D]

Well they were American maybe. Now their international.

[siva_chair]

Well they were American maybe. Now their international.

Well they're still distinctly considered American music styles, even if an international audience has embraced them.

[Smokey D]

I dunno about that. You'd be hard pressed to say the Beatles were American style rock n roll. You'd be hard pressed to say the Sex Pistols were American. etc. Very little modern rock bears much resemblance to the original American style.

Which is a long way of saying it has not only been embraced by international audiences but changed and developed by international performers.

[siva_chair]

I dunno about that. You'd be hard pressed to say the Beatles were American style rock n roll. You'd be hard pressed to say the Sex Pistols were American. etc. Very little modern rock bears much resemblance to the original American style.

I'd say the Beatles WERE American style rock n roll at the time. They were just Brits that performed it. The style they successfully forged was drawn pretty much entirely from American music sources. Same with the Sex Pistols and punk, really.

I'm not trying to take away the important and vast contributions of other countries to these musical styles, but these styles are still styles that were primarily and originally cultivated by American culture. Thus they are still considered American music styles (and rightfully so).

Which is a long way of saying it has not only been embraced by international audiences but changed and developed by international performers.

Sure. But that doesn't change the fact that it is an American music style. I mean I love traditional Hindi music, but that doesn't mean that if I were to spark a popular wave of it and lots of other people from other countries contribute to it it is going to stop being a traditional Indian style.

[Smokey D]

I'd say the Beatles WERE American style rock n roll at the time. They were just Brits that performed it. The style they successfully forged was drawn pretty much entirely from American music sources. Same with the Sex Pistols and punk, really.

I'm not trying to take away the important and vast contributions of other countries to these musical styles, but these styles are still styles that were primarily and originally cultivated by American culture. Thus they are still considered American music styles (and rightfully so).

They are no more American styles than rock is a black style. By the time the Beatles were on the scene, rock had ceased to be exclusively American. British rock is not an American style.

Sure. But that doesn't change the fact that it is an American music style. I mean I love traditional Hindi music, but that doesn't mean that if I were to spark a popular wave of it and lots of other people from other countries contribute to it it is going to stop being a traditional Indian style.

But it would if you added a whole lot of non-Indian things to it.

[siva_chair]

They are no more American styles than rock is a black style. By the time the Beatles were on the scene, rock had ceased to be exclusively American. British rock is not an American style.

No British rock is rock done by British people.

Rock was born, cultivated, and centered in America. Thus, it is an American music style and still is.

But it would if you added a whole lot of non-Indian things to it.

The Beatles and other British bands didn't really add distinctly "non-American" things to rock, though.

[mph4ever]

I'd say the Beatles WERE American style rock n roll at the time. They were just Brits that performed it. The style they successfully forged was drawn pretty much entirely from American music sources.
i'm intrigued, first time i've heard this suggestion. can you exlain it for me?


Same with the Sex Pistols and punk, really.

are you suggesting that the pistols were american? and punk also?


I'm not trying to take away the important and vast contributions of other countries to these musical styles, but these styles are still styles that were primarily and originally cultivated by American culture. Thus they are still considered American music styles (and rightfully so).

by who are they rightfully considered to be american?

[Smokey D]

Rock was born, cultivated, and centered in America. Thus, it is an American music style and still is.

It's changed significantly enough and is diverse enough for that no longer to make sense.

The Beatles and other British bands didn't really add distinctly "non-American" things to rock, though.

I think they were adding new stuff on both sides of the Atlantic. Rock is syncretic not local and parochial. It incorporates such a wide variety of musical influences it's simply wrong to call it an American style even though it undoubtedly begun in America.

For a rough analogy, would you call Americans European just because their ancestors lived in Europe?

[mph4ever]

or who was doing stuff like pink floyd?

[siva_chair]

i'm intrigued, first time i've heard this suggestion. can you exlain it for me?

Pretty much all the stylistic influences of the Beatles were American musicians. The only reason it is called "British rock" is because they were a highly successful commercial rock band from England. After the Beatles, other British bands ended up gaining from the popularity of the Beatles. But the Beatles were really just performing American music.


are you suggesting that the pistols were american?
lol no what gave you that idea?

and punk also?

Punk is pretty much a style originating in America, yes.

by who are they rightfully considered to be american?

Umm by historians of music and whatnot?

I think it is pretty obvious that these styles originated, were cultivated, and were spread by Americans.

[siva_chair]

It's changed significantly enough and is diverse enough for that no longer to make sense.

Of course it makes sense.

I think they were adding new stuff on both sides of the Atlantic. Rock is syncretic not local and parochial. It incorporates such a wide variety of musical influences it's simply wrong to call it an American style even though it undoubtedly begun in America.

Well I am calling it an American style because it originated and became a distinct and specific style in America. Rock & Roll is generally viewed as distinctly an American style. The term rock, however, is a pretty broad encompassing and generalizing term nowadays, so I suppose you could say that it isn't "American" anymore.

For a rough analogy, would you call Americans European just because their ancestors lived in Europe?

That is pretty rough.

No, I wouldn't, just as I wouldn't call British bluesmen an American for playing the blues. :p

On the same line of thinking, the blues didn't really cease to be an American style because of the British Blues movement.

or who was doing stuff like pink floyd?

Captain Beefheart, Frank Zappa, ect.

The Brits may have done prog. rock/psychedelic very well, but I would hesitate to say they invented it. And this is coming from someone who is a huge Pink Floyd fan.

[Reaganista]

when america convinces the entire world that our music the best there is it doesn't stop being american music and become world music it just means you all love our music

[mph4ever]

Pretty much all the stylistic influences of the Beatles were American musicians. The only reason it is called "British rock" is because they were a highly successful commercial rock band from England. After the Beatles, other British bands ended up gaining from the popularity of the Beatles. But the Beatles were really just performing American music.

you're are kidding, aren't you? i am not a fan at all but i do know that they were original in the most part. they developed and changed their own sounds constantly. you don't get to be considered the most influential pop band of all time without being original. otherwise they, the band called the beatles, would cite their influences and we would all be aware. one thing they did as a tribute was their name which evolved from silver beetle and other iterations of words that phonetically sound like beetle as a tribute to buddy holly and the crickets



lol no what gave you that idea?


eh, from this comment here

I'd say the Beatles WERE American style rock n roll at the time. They were just Brits that performed it. The style they successfully forged was drawn pretty much entirely from American music sources. Same with the Sex Pistols and punk, really.

the implication being that the sex pistols and punk were american styles that the brits performed. what leads you to think this?


Punk is pretty much a style originating in America, yes.

how do you tie the american punk scene of the 70s into the uk punk scene or any other punk scene? its not a point i heard made properly before so i am interested to hear


Umm by historians of music and whatnot?

is that a question for me?


I think it is pretty obvious that these styles originated, were cultivated, and were spread by Americans.

obvious to who? historians of music and whatnot?

i think you're pulling my leg

when america convinces the entire world that our music the best there is it doesn't stop being american music and become world music it just means you all love our music
hahaha

[Reaganista]

hahaha is that british for i have no rebuttal

[mph4ever]

hahaha is that british for i have no rebuttal

no, its the irish for "go away out of that ya fu'cken leper if ya think that" ;)

[Seafroggys]

you're are kidding, aren't you? i am not a fan at all but i do know that they were original in the most part. they developed and changed their own sounds constantly. you don't get to be considered the most influential pop band of all time without being original. otherwise they, the band called the beatles, would cite their influences and we would all be aware. one thing they did as a tribute was their name which evolved from silver beetle and other iterations of words that phonetically sound like beetle as a tribute to buddy holly and the crickets

Many of the Band's influences were American in origin. Chuck Berry was perhaps the most fundamental progenitor of the Beatles' sound. They recorded covers of "Roll Over Beethoven" and "Rock And Roll Music" early on and many other Berry classics were in their live repertoire. Chuck Berry's influence is also heard (in altered form) on later recordings such as "Everybody's Got Something to Hide Except Me and My Monkey" (1968) and "Come Together" (1969) (when "Come Together" was released, the owner of Chuck Berry's copyrights sued John Lennon for copyright infringement of his song "You Can't Catch Me", after which the two reached an amicable settlement, the terms of which included an agreement that Lennon cover some Chuck Berry songs as a solo artist).

George Harrison had a fondness for American rockabilly music, particularly that of Eddie Cochran and Carl Perkins. The band's early stage show featured several Perkins tunes; some of these (notably "Honey Don't" featuring an early Ringo vocal) would eventually make it to vinyl. Moreover, Harrison's guitar work remained highly influenced by rockabilly styles throughout the band's tenure.

The Beatles' distinctive vocal harmonies were also influenced by those of early Motown artists in America; early Beatles staples included faithful versions of Barrett Strong's Motown recording of "Money (That's What I Want)" and The Marvelettes' hit "Please Mr. Postman".

http://www.liverpoolcityportal.co.uk/beatles/beatles_influences.html

I'm digging through my Beatles anthology book right them, which I know is full of the Beatles THEMSELVES citing who their influences are.

[Reaganista]

no, its the irish for "go away out of that ya fu'cken leper if ya think that" ;)

you should know the origins of your culture in this case they happen to be america

[mph4ever]

http://www.liverpoolcityportal.co.uk/beatles/beatles_influences.html

I'm digging through my Beatles anthology book right them, which I know is full of the Beatles THEMSELVES citing who their influences are.


ok, thats some cool information, everyone has to have an influence of some sort, and i have to say i was not aware of these. it does make sense that there would be some small outside influence but it still does not address the point that the beatles were original in their composition and created their own sound and were not american in their origin as suggested.

are you saying that I'd say the Beatles WERE American style rock n roll at the time. They were just Brits that performed it. The style they successfully forged was drawn pretty much entirely from American music sources. is true?

[Give me Beer]

lol @ the nationalistic claiming of musical styles.

[Seafroggys]

The Beatles are pretty original, but you downplay their influences. They practically idol worshipped Roy Orbison, Little Richard, Chuck Berry, Elvis Presley, etc. etc. and they all wanted to be like them. During their earlier days, John and Paul would write a few songs but they wanted to play American rock 'n roll. Covers were a huge part of their repetoir. Paul himself was a huge LIttle Richard fan, please tell me that "I'm Down" isn't a huge Little Richard-esque rip-off ;)

They are my favorite band and they are largely one of the most original groups ever, moreso by 1965-1966, but in the early era they wanted to be like the American groups!

[Reaganista]

lol @ the nationalistic claiming of musical styles.
lol at counterfactual anti nationalism

[siva_chair]

you're are kidding, aren't you? i am not a fan at all but i do know that they were original in the most part. they developed and changed their own sounds constantly. you don't get to be considered the most influential pop band of all time without being original. otherwise they, the band called the beatles, would cite their influences and we would all be aware. one thing they did as a tribute was their name which evolved from silver beetle and other iterations of words that phonetically sound like beetle as a tribute to buddy holly and the crickets

No, I'm not kidding. Nor did I ever say the Beatles weren't original. I said they did American music.


eh, from this comment here

the implication being that the sex pistols and punk were american styles that the brits performed. what leads you to think this?

Punk originated in America.


how do you tie the american punk scene of the 70s into the uk punk scene or any other punk scene? its not a point i heard made properly before so i am interested to hear

Because it pretty much sprang out of the protopunk music of the 60's and 70's (more American garage rock influences for the most part) and happened in New York before it hit anywhere else.

obvious to who? historians of music and whatnot?
Yes. You know, the people who actually study it.

i think you're pulling my leg

No.

The Beatles are pretty original, but you downplay their influences. They practically idol worshipped Roy Orbison, Little Richard, Chuck Berry, Elvis Presley, etc. etc. and they all wanted to be like them. During their earlier days, John and Paul would write a few songs but they wanted to play American rock 'n roll. Covers were a huge part of their repetoir. Paul himself was a huge LIttle Richard fan, please tell me that "I'm Down" isn't a huge Little Richard-esque rip-off ;)

They are my favorite band and they are largely one of the most original groups ever, moreso by 1965-1966, but in the early era they wanted to be like the American groups!

^This^

when america convinces the entire world that our music the best there is it doesn't stop being american music and become world music it just means you all love our music

^And this too.^

[mph4ever]

you should know the origins of your culture in this case they happen to be america

it sure does seem that way, i never realised that every country's culture is derived from american influcences. it must be for export only though since we all have so much of it and y'all have so little


The Beatles are pretty original, but you downplay their influences. They practically idol worshipped Roy Orbison, Little Richard, Chuck Berry, Elvis Presley, etc. etc. and they all wanted to be like them. During their earlier days, John and Paul would write a few songs but they wanted to play American rock 'n roll. Covers were a huge part of their repetoir. Paul himself was a huge LIttle Richard fan, please tell me that "I'm Down" isn't a huge Little Richard-esque rip-off.

They are my favorite band and they are largely one of the most original groups ever, moreso by 1965-1966, but in the early era they wanted to be like the American groups!
yup. i guess i downplay their influences. i got caught between what they created and who influenced them. the above make it sound like they were a covers band. did they play those songs as crowd pleasers before they had substantial material of their own?


No, I'm not kidding. Nor did I ever say the Beatles weren't original. I said they did American music.

ok, its the influence versus originality thing for me again. but i still can't understand how you can say they did american music. i would say they did beatles music but with some american influences. you can't call their original work american, can you?


Punk originated in America.

Because it pretty much sprang out of the protopunk music of the 60's and 70's (more American garage rock influences for the most part) and happened in New York before it hit anywhere else.


thats way too american centric, the same thing was happening everywhere, not just new york.

[siva_chair]

ok, its the influence versus originality thing for me again. but i still can't understand how you can say they did american music. i would say they did beatles music but with some american influences. you can't call their original work american, can you?

I don't see why not.

thats way too american centric, the same thing was happening everywhere, not just new york.

No, punk as a music style started in New York. That is where it is credited to have originated. American centric or not it is a fact.

[mph4ever]

I don't see why not.

the least you could do outline the support for your point. the beatles music is in the most part original. they created it from their own talents. some of their influences were american but it did not take long for them to innovate and create their own sound. they are from liverpool, how can you call that america. they have no american heritage, no american culture, they were english pop and rock


No, punk as a music style started in New York. That is where it is credited to have originated. American centric or not it is a fact.
by who? are you saying that what was going on in gemany or englnd did not spring up at the same time? can you tell me who started the "style" in new york? can you define the style?

you seem to be well inform, its a new take on it for me, i am interested in your information, thats all

[siva_chair]

the least you could do outline the support for your point. the beatles music is in the most part original. they created it from their own talents. some of their influences were american but it did not take long for them to innovate and create their own sound.

Pretty much all of their influences were American. They found their own voice in American music, sure, but it was still a style rooted in America.

they are from liverpool, how can you call that america.

Ffs I am not.

they have no american heritage, no american culture, they were english pop and rock

Musically they were drawing from American heritage and American culture (you know, rock and roll).

It is only because the Beatles got so damn popular and tons of bands rode their coattails of success that there is even a categorization of "English pop and rock." They played American music.

by who? are you saying that what was going on in gemany or englnd did not spring up at the same time? can you tell me who started the "style" in new york? can you define the style?

I already said: people who study the history of music.

"Who started the style in New York?" Probably the New York Dolls and all that stuff going on at the CBGBs club in New York.

The UK pretty much got exposed to it through the New York Doll's manager that went back to the UK to open up an "anti-fashion" clothing store, which bred the UK punk scene for the most part.

you seem to be well inform, its a new take on it for me, i am interested in your information, thats all

I had to take lots of music history classes in college.

[Give me Beer]

lol at counterfactual anti nationalism

You really couldn't come up with a better retort than that? :lol:

As long as I see words like "our music" being thrown around, I'm going to keep laughing.

At least those Blues folks totally understood Ducasse, even if they didn't know it themselves. :D Le plagiat est nécessaire. Le progrès l'implique.

[siva_chair]

At least those Blues folks totally understood Ducasse, even if they didn't know it themselves. :D Le plagiat est nécessaire. Le progrès l'implique.

Ok that's cool, but that has nothing to do with the fact that the music originated in America and not elsewhere.

[Give me Beer]

I really don't give a **** where it "originated" really. I think it's hilarious that you think that this fact is important for some reason. If I want to keep going back it originated out of a crossing of African and European styles, and if we go all the way back, we're probably back in East Africa. So what? You didn't make the music, just some people who happened to be American, good for them. :lol: [And if you really want to be factual, proto-punk is so Detroit and not NY :lol:]

Either way, coining it "our music" is hilarious.

That my comment has nothing to do with that doesn't really matter either does it now, this thread isn't even supposed to be about it.

[siva_chair]

I really don't give a **** where it "originated" really.

Obviously you do care where it came from. Otherwise you wouldn't have bothered to b!tch about American's claiming it.

I think it's hilarious that you think that this fact is important for some reason.

And I think your attempts to disassociate it from America is hilarious.

If I want to keep going back it originated out of a crossing of African and European styles, and if we go all the way back, we're probably back in East Africa. So what? You didn't make the music, just some people who happened to be American, good for them. :lol:

No see African and European styles originated in Africa and Europe, respectively. Rock originated in America. So did Jazz, Blues, American Folk music, country, bluegrass, ect.

Either way, coining it "our music" is hilarious.

Would you coin things originating in Belgium as "Belgian?"

[siva_chair]

[And if you really want to be factual, proto-punk is so Detroit and not NY :lol:

Never said protopunk was NY.

And FYI Detroit is in America.

[Give me Beer]

I wouldn't coin things from Belgium as "ours", but that's just me no. :D That would be like saying Art Nouveau is our architectural style, lol.

I'm not trying disassociate things from America, FYI I think American Punk > British Punk. I just wouldn't try to put "our" in front of any of those, which is what made me laugh.

& Yeah, I think proto-punk & punk are very arbitrary "seperated" styles.

Also laughing @ & bitching are not the same things. By all means, define it as American, just don't put "our" in front of it, it's a dumb association to make.

[siva_chair]

I wouldn't coin things from Belgium as "ours", but that's just me no. :D That would be like saying Art Nouveau is our architectural style, lol.

I'm not trying disassociate things from America, FYI I think American Punk > British Punk. I just wouldn't try to put "our" in front of any of those, which is what made me laugh.

& Yeah, I think proto-punk & punk are very arbitrary "seperated" styles.

Also laughing @ & bitching are not the same things. By all means, define it as American, just don't put "our" in front of it, it's a dumb association to make.

I think it is a great association to make. It is especially hilarious when it causes foreigners to throw a fit over it.

And FYI I think most punk pretty much sucks, regardless of where it is from.....:eek:

[Give me Beer]

Depends on what Punk you are talking about, The Dwarves, Ramones & Stooges are some of the best music ever made. IMO ;)

Please, do continue to argue about who invented what though, it's hilarious. I love when people try to take credit for things they didn't do. :D

[siva_chair]

Depends on what Punk you are talking about, The Dwarves, Ramones & Stooges are some of the best music ever made. IMO ;)

Oh I don't hate all of it. The artists you mentioned are great, but most punk is pretty lame.

Please, do continue to argue about who invented what though, it's hilarious. I love when people try to take credit for things they didn't do. :D

But you see we did invent it so we can take credit for it. That's how it works. :p

Big fan of your waffles by the way. :wave:

[Give me Beer]

Ah, but you didn't invent anything, you were just born there, same as those guys, but that's where it stops. The Waffles are actually from Liège. ;) Nobody knows that town, so everybody just calls them Belgian Waffles. My Grandmothers were better any way.

Also, if you're going to take credit for it, I demand an apology for all the Boy Bands & Britney Spears clones you released on the world. :P

[siva_chair]

Ah, but you didn't invent anything, you were just born there, same as those guys, but that's where it stops. The Waffles are actually from Liège. ;) Nobody knows that town, so everybody just calls them Belgian Waffles. My Grandmothers were better any way.

How do you know I didn't invent anything?!?!

Also, if you're going to take credit for it, I demand an apology for all the Boy Bands & Britney Spears clones you released on the world. :P

Yeah I'm really sorry about that. I think we drank way too much the night before and decided it would be a good idea. It really wasn't, was it?

[Give me Beer]

How do you know I didn't invent anything?!?!

Because you're posting on MX, face it, if you were the type of creative person to invent things, the last thing you would be doing is wasting time here. :p



Yeah I'm really sorry about that. I think we drank way too much the night before and decided it would be a good idea. It really wasn't, was it?

This should be in one of those "anti-alcohol' ads. :eek: People would think twice.

[mph4ever]

ok, then, forget all the naionalism and agree that paranoid by black sabbath was the first punk song ;)

[Amit]

boy bands ****ing rock hard what the hell

[mph4ever]

read this end of this thread again and siva_chair has been listening to too much johnny hobo and punkrockanarchy

[siva_chair]

Because you're posting on MX, face it, if you were the type of creative person to invent things, the last thing you would be doing is wasting time here. :p

"When he saw the breadth of his domain, he wept for there were no more worlds to conquer......"

"....so he started posting on MX to pass the time." :chug:

This should be in one of those "anti-alcohol' ads. :eek: People would think twice.

Well America has always been a great example of what to do, and also a great example of what not to do. Enlightening the world one lesson at a time.

[siva_chair]

read this end of this thread again and siva_chair has been listening to too much johnny hobo and punkrockanarchy

Um no I haven't wtf are you talking about?

[Reaganista]

I wouldn't coin things from Belgium as "ours", but that's just me no. :D That would be like saying Art Nouveau is our architectural style, lol.

I'm not trying disassociate things from America, FYI I think American Punk > British Punk. I just wouldn't try to put "our" in front of any of those, which is what made me laugh.

& Yeah, I think proto-punk & punk are very arbitrary "seperated" styles.

Also laughing @ & bitching are not the same things. By all means, define it as American, just don't put "our" in front of it, it's a dumb association to make.
i can see why you'd think that seeing as our culture is better than your culture

[mph4ever]

Um no I haven't wtf are you talking about?


johnny hobo and the freight trains are are folk punk band. they do a skit sometimes at the end of gigs called punkrockanarchy where they put on english accents and take the piss of out of the idea that punk rock anarchy originated in england, like when they suggest that the sex pistols created anarchy with the song "anarchy in the uk" and the like

[siva_chair]

johnny hobo and the freight trains are are folk punk band. they do a skit sometimes at the end of gigs called punkrockanarchy where they put on english accents and take the piss of out of the idea that punk rock anarchy originated in england, like when they suggest that the sex pistols created anarchy with the song "anarchy in the uk" and the like

See now that is awesome.

[mph4ever]

i thought you'd like it.

[Oriah]

It really is a miracle we still exist isn't it.

[Smokey D]

Basically Siva is saying that something which has its origin, however remote and vestigial, in one place is the exclusive product of that place such that it can be said to be of that place and nowhere else. In this he is saying that American culture, which originated in Europe, is European; that European culture, which originated in Phoenicia, is Phoenician; that Phoenician culture, which originated in Sumer, is Sumerian; and ultimately that human culture, which originated in Africa, is African. I cannot accept that argument.

For one example, European oil painting probably originated in the Low Countries, but it's wrong to say Venetian oil paintings are Dutch in origin or style. For another, American law originated in English common law but it is wrong to say American law is English law.

[Give me Beer]

i can see why you'd think that seeing as our culture is better than your culture

America has no culture, just post-culture, with post- being the worst of all prefixes. :P

L'ART EST MORT!

Ne vous emmerdez plus, emmerdez les autres !
Le droit bourgeois est la vaseline des enculeurs du peuple.

[mfb]

America has no culture, just post-culture, with post- being the worst of all prefixes. :P
Damn straight. Superpowers are way too advanced for cultures.

[mph4ever]

i just think its funny that of all the many things to claim as american he picks punk and the beatles. like if he'd of said obesity and american football i could understand. i honestly think hes taking the p!ss. and then he tells me he has studied music history as if that makes a difference.

[mfb]

I'm reading the thread now MPH... yeah both Punk and the Beatles are definitely British. F*ck it you guys can have our football too.



Obesity is all ours though. :chug:

[sr800bkBassist]

America has no culture, just post-culture, with post- being the worst of all prefixes. :P

L'ART EST MORT!

Ne vous emmerdez plus, emmerdez les autres !
Le droit bourgeois est la vaseline des enculeurs du peuple.

if you study cultural anthropology, you'd realise just how ridiculous that statement really is.

[Volumnius Flush]

Why stop with Florida? Kick out all the Southern states. Oh, and the Midwest, too.

We tried to leave once, but the North fought tooth and nail to have us back. They even killed many thousands of our young men and women just to prove a point: That without the South, the Union would be nothing. The USA couldn't survive without Texas. We have too much to offer. Many trillions of dollars for that matter are located in the southern states.

And I can't say I disagree with the school district. Witchery is an abomination and I don't want it around children. The children are the highest priority, and must be kept as such at all cost.

[mfb]

^Or they just wanted the land they conquered.

[Volumnius Flush]

^Or they just wanted the land they conquered.

No, they just missed us that much.

[Steerpike]

We tried to leave once, but the North fought tooth and nail to have us back.

Actually, if you check the history books the South were the ones who started shooting at us.

The USA couldn't survive without Texas. We have too much to offer.

Name something good you've given us other than Robert Rodriguez.

Witchery is an abomination and I don't want it around children. The children are the highest priority, and must be kept as such at all cost.

It's a magic trick. I know how to do it. They call it an illusion for a reason.

Someone please tell me that we've proved once and for all that Volumnius is just a joke account. Otherwise I'm going to go drinking again.

[VomitStainedCretin]

The children are the highest priority, and must be kept as such at all cost.Indeed - today's children are after all tomorrow's feast-piles sustaining cannibal tyranny.

[Volumnius Flush]

It's a magic trick. I know how to do it. They call it an illusion for a reason.

Someone please tell me that we've proved once and for all that Volumnius is just a joke account. Otherwise I'm going to go drinking again.

Nope. Haven't proved it yet.

And one good thing Texas has given the nation? Ross Perot, the billionaire businessman.

[Amit]

well that's wonderful especially since no other state in the union has provided us with billionaire businessmen

[Give me Beer]

if you study cultural anthropology, you'd realise just how ridiculous that statement really is.

If you actually knew what I was talking about you'd realize you shouldn't try to be a smart *** and try to lecture me.

Never read anything by Debord or the Situationist International, have you now?

[Amit]

no sorry gmb you're a complete moron for saying something like america has no culture

[Volumnius Flush]

well that's wonderful especially since no other state in the union has provided us with billionaire businessmen

No other state has provided the Union with Ross Perot, one of the most talented and gifted businessmen of the 20th century.

[Amit]

hahaha

[Volumnius Flush]

hahaha

Do you even know anything about Ross Perot?

[Steerpike]

Do you even know anything about Ross Perot?

Here's a better question. Do you know what a magic trick is?

[Volumnius Flush]

Here's a better question. Do you know what a magic trick is?

It is a magical illusion that the performer does through the vested power of Satan to create an illusion but more so through the abundance of the performer's magic and or witchery which thus creates not truly an illusion but a legitimate argument for the presence of demonic and or spiritual influence that has allowed the user to perform such and said witchery.

Woo, that's a long sentence. Probably a run-on, too.

[Steerpike]

Woo, that's a long sentence. Probably a run-on, too.

I think bad grammar would be the least of your concerns if you think card tricks are Satan's idea of corrupting innocent minds.

This has to be a joke. There's no way you're serious. Anyone this stupid would be restrained from going near the internet by the orderlies appointed to act as legal guardians.

[Volumnius Flush]

I think bad grammar would be the least of your concerns if you think card tricks are Satan's idea of corrupting innocent minds.

This has to be a joke. There's no way you're serious. Anyone this stupid would be restrained from going near the internet by the orderlies appointed to act as legal guardians.

I am dead serious and if you participate in magic you are basically admitting you're a practicing Satanist.

And I don't have a legal guardian. I am a college freshman who lives in my own place, alone, where I'll probably be for quite a long while.

I believe there are some card tricks and the like that are mere illusions but when you get into the big time acts, you're dealing in some heavy witchcraft there.

[Steerpike]

I am dead serious and if you participate in magic you are basically admitting you're a practicing Satanist.

That would explain the pentagrams spontaneously manifesting in my room every night and why my vision has taken on a red tint these days.

who lives in my own place, alone, where I'll probably be for quite a long while.

That is the most unintentionally hilarious thing I've ever heard someone say.

I believe there are some card tricks and the like that are mere illusions but when you get into the big time acts, you're dealing in some heavy witchcraft there.

Ladies and gentlemen, David Copperfield, general in the army of the Mangoat.

What phrase in the Bible exactly tells me that palming cards is a direct freeway straight to hell?

[Volumnius Flush]

That is the most unintentionally hilarious thing I've ever heard someone say.


Thank you, and goodnight! :wave:



What phrase in the Bible exactly tells me that palming cards is a direct freeway straight to hell?

Are you referring to tarot?

[Steerpike]

Are you referring to tarot?

Palming cards. Palming is a verb, not an adjective.

[BridgeToSolace]

Are you referring to tarot?

No.

Cards, man. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Cards.jpg

You ever seen someone do a card trick?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBvl1kuPLC8

[Volumnius Flush]

Card tricks are completely harmless. I am saying when you get into the higher levels of magic, that is when you start finding your very powerful witches.

[Steerpike]

Card tricks are completely harmless. I am saying when you get into the higher levels of magic, that is when you start finding your very powerful witches.

So the teacher, who did a vanishing toothpick trick that Criss Angel taught on national television, is a practicing sorcerer in the service of Beelzebub?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fdXN_99EkI

This is the track the teacher did. I **** you not.

[Volumnius Flush]

So the teacher, who did a vanishing toothpick trick that Criss Angel taught on national television, is a practicing sorcerer in the service of Beelzebub?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fdXN_99EkI

This is the track the teacher did. I **** you not.

Looks pretty demonic to me.

[Steerpike]

Looks pretty demonic to me.

Satan invented scotch tape and toothpicks?

You didn't watch the video, did you?

[BridgeToSolace]

Looks pretty demonic to me.

You really aren't helping people think that you're a serious poster.

[Volumnius Flush]

You really aren't helping people think that you're a serious poster.

Well I am serious and something about indoctrinating children into believing lies that things can magically disappear and reappear is as dangerous as telling them about the tooth fairy and the Easter bunny.

Satan invented scotch tape and toothpicks?

You didn't watch the video, did you?

I stopped at the part with the tape.

[Steerpike]

Well I am serious and something about indoctrinating children into believing lies that things can magically disappear and reappear is as dangerous as telling them about the tooth fairy and the Easter bunny.

The only people who believe sorcery is real are idiot Christians and the kind of morons who click on "love spell" services that somehow keep appearing in the Google Ads for my website.

I stopped at the part with the tape.

So no then. Were you afraid Jesus wouldn't be able to protect you from Criss Angel's stupid haircut and droning voice? Because that's more evil than taping a toothpick to your thumbnail.

[Volumnius Flush]

The only people who believe sorcery is real are idiot Christians and the kind of morons who click on "love spell" services that somehow keep appearing in the Google Ads for my website.

There are witches today believe it or not. And some are very powerful too. There was a book I was reading that talks about taking the form of a beast, or actually possessing an animal. Apparently you set it into a circle and follow the steps, though I'm not sure if it's true.

[Steerpike]

There are witches today believe it or not. And some are very powerful too.

They're also not real.

There was a book I was reading that talks about taking the form of a beast, or actually possessing an animal. Apparently you set it into a circle and follow the steps, though I'm not sure if it's true.

My story about me being a captain of the Intergalactic Heartbreaker Squad is more convincing. It also has the added bonus of being true, which is more than I can say for lycanthropy.

[Volumnius Flush]

They're also not real.



My story about me being a captain of the Intergalactic Heartbreaker Squad is more convincing. It also has the added bonus of being true, which is more than I can say for lycanthropy.

How do you explain glossolalia or speaking in tongues then?

[Amit]

Do you even know anything about Ross Perot?

yeah

but texas didn't give us bill gates, steve jobs, or andy grove

[Steerpike]

How do you explain glossolalia or speaking in tongues then?

You mean babbling like an idiot? Get me a couple shots of tequila and I'll speak in tongues enough to warm the icy heart (and loins) of the stuck-up girl who turned down every nice guy's request for a date in high school. Then again, you probably wouldn't get that joke, being Texan. Come on, a teenage virgin in Texas? Who'd believe such nonsense?

Ever seen Cape Fear? Robert DeNiro pretended to speak in tongues, too. He just screamed out random syllables as he was dragged into the rapids.

[Volumnius Flush]

You mean babbling like an idiot? Get me a couple shots of tequila and I'll speak in tongues enough to warm the icy heart (and loins) of the stuck-up girl who turned down every nice guy's request for a date in high school. Then again, you probably wouldn't get that joke, being Texan. Come on, a teenage virgin in Texas? Who'd believe such nonsense?

Ever seen Cape Fear? Robert DeNiro pretended to speak in tongues, too. He just screamed out random syllables as he was dragged into the rapids.

Ok, just curious.

[Steerpike]

Ok, just curious.

Now I know how to win every argument with you: bring up a tangential connection to a Robert DeNiro movie. Robert DeNiro is so awesome he trumps Jesus.

[Volumnius Flush]

Now I know how to win every argument with you: bring up a tangential connection to a Robert DeNiro movie. Robert DeNiro is so awesome he trumps Jesus.

Jesus is much greater than Robert De Niro. But I guess we will all find out when we die, huh?

[Amit]

hint: there's no afterlife

woops i should have put a spoiler warning oh well lol

[Steerpike]

Jesus is much greater than Robert De Niro.

That's mathematically impossible. Jesus wasn't in The Godfather, nor did he ever work with Roger Corman.

[Volumnius Flush]

hint: there's no afterlife

woops i should have put a spoiler warning oh well lol

I won't even argue with you on this. I can sit back and say, "well we'll find out won't we?"

[Amit]

I won't even argue with you on this.

why

oh yeah that's right because you don't have any proof

I can sit back and say, "well we'll find out won't we?"

you can go ahead and sit back

i'll continue enjoying this one life i have to the fullest

[Volumnius Flush]

why

oh yeah that's right because you don't have any proof



you can go ahead and sit back

i'll continue enjoying this one life i have to the fullest

Well there is no denying we will find out one day unless there truly is no afterlife and then our thoughts will cease altogether.

[Amit]

Well there is no denying we will find out one day unless there truly is no afterlife and then our thoughts will cease altogether.

but what's the point of believing in an afterlife if there's no afterlife

[Volumnius Flush]

but what's the point of believing in an afterlife if there's no afterlife

Fire insurance.

[Give me Beer]

no sorry gmb you're a complete moron for saying something like america has no culture

Jesus, are you people retarded? If you don't get what I was saying, don't try to respond. Did you see the post I was responding too? Do I have to put disclaimers on these things? :rolleyes:

[Amit]

no i understand what you're saying

but you're still completely wrong you worthless belgie

[Give me Beer]

no i understand what you're saying

but you're still completely wrong you worthless belgie

No you don't, since you insist on going on about the 'truth value' of my statement. Which shows you didn't get any of it. :rolleyes:

P.S.

Belgian
Belg
Belge
or Belgier.

Belgie, doesn't mean anything, unless you're trying to write Belgium in Dutch, in which case you missed the umlaut. :P

P.P.S. What is wrong with college educated Americans?

[Amit]

lol typical euroscum

keep on contributing nothing to human culture

[Give me Beer]

lol typical euroscum

keep on contributing nothing to human culture

Wow, you just keep on going don't you? Okay, I'll spell it out for you, it was a joking remark in response to a similar remark by Reaganista, which I ended with some typical anarcho-communist slogans, to underline how I was joking. Of course your linguistically retarded *** didn't actually try to understand any of it so you took offense to a joking remark. "As by the way, underlined as well by the ":P" following it.

Perhaps some of you would be better served with a class on comprehensive reading than one on cultural antrophology. Pseudo-elitist snobs. :rolleyes:

Or actually read a book, instead of a website.

[Reaganista]

I won't even argue with you on this. I can sit back and say, "well we'll find out won't we?"
no we wont we'll be dead

[Amit]

Wow, you just keep on going don't you? Okay, I'll spell it out for you, it was a joking remark in response to a similar remark by Reaganista, which I ended with some typical anarcho-communist slogans, to underline how I was joking. Of course your linguistically retarded *** didn't actually try to understand any of it so you took offense to a joking remark. "As by the way, underlined as well by the ":P" following it.

Perhaps some of you would be better served with a class on comprehensive reading than one on cultural antrophology. Pseudo-elitist snobs. :rolleyes:

Or actually read a book, instead of a website.

hahaha look at the euroscum cry when he can't take a joke

i mean

Wow, you just keep on going don't you? Okay, I'll spell it out for you, it was a joking remark in response to a similar remark by Give me Beer, which I ended with some typical pro-US slogans, to underline how I was joking.

[Give me Beer]

:lol: onnozelaar.

I knew you were going respond like that. Keep on backpaddeling, look out for that wall of reality behind you though.

[Reaganista]

i wasnt joking our culture is better than yours

[Amit]

:lol: onnozelaar.

I knew you were going respond like that. Keep on backpaddeling, look out for that wall of reality behind you though.

i knew you were going to respond like that :lol:

oh ok so only belgfags can "backpaddel" cool dude you're doing very well in this thread

[VomitStainedCretin]

The reason colored folk are so good at basketball isn't because they're tall with too much spare time in the ghetto but 'cause they use their voodoo black magic to outwit whitey. I mean, how else can they spin a ball like that or slam dunk? Must be some serious Blafrican witchery going on there...

[Iscariot]

ahaha blafrican

[BridgeToSolace]

Well I am serious and something about indoctrinating children into believing lies that things can magically disappear and reappear is as dangerous as telling them about the tooth fairy and the Easter bunny.


You mean...like...telling them that a being magically made the universe appear in seven days?

oh wai...

[Iscariot]

there's nothing wrong with indulging a child's imagination with things like magic tricks it cultivates them to be more creative people later on in life

besides prestidigitation is a perfectly legitimate skill not everyone has the dexterity or verbal skills to perform good magic tricks

[BridgeToSolace]

prestidigitation? What an overly complicated way to say "sleight of hand" :p

It would be a great teaching tool if he actually explained the trick afterwards. He's just a sub so he was probably just trying to make them shut up.

[Iscariot]

i like big words it makes me feel educated and i need that illusion to avoid suicide

[Steerpike]

The reason colored folk are so good at basketball isn't because they're tall with too much spare time in the ghetto but 'cause they use their voodoo black magic to outwit whitey. I mean, how else can they spin a ball like that or slam dunk? Must be some serious Blafrican witchery going on there...

You're just now figuring this out? Every race has special sorcery that allows them to do useless things that look sort of cool. Black people spin basketballs, white people do fancy stuff with playing cards, and Asian people can spin pens.

prestidigitation? What an overly complicated way to say "sleight of hand" :p

It's one of those invented words that helps the people it applies to feel better about themselves.

Prestidigitation = card tricks
Paranormal investigation = conspiracy theorist
Musician = unemployed

[Give me Beer]

i knew you were going to respond like that :lol:

oh ok so only belgfags can "backpaddel" cool dude you're doing very well in this thread

Okay, I'm going to stop responding now, I'm not three years old like you seem to be. Does your mom know you're using the computer? :) Oh, and using my nationality as an insult really isn't the best way to try and insult me, at all. Hey, if you like jokes about Belgians, here's a whole page full of 'm: http://www.humours.net/blague-belge/blague-belge.htm The French love Belgian jokes, so they got a lot.

C'est un Belge qui entre chez un concessionnaire Peugeot pour y acheter une voiture d'occasion. Après avoir entendu le baratin du vendeur, il demande à essayer cette voiture.
- Pas de problème, je vous laisse les clefs.....
L'homme prend l'autoroute...vitesse : 50 puis 100 puis 150... il dépasse les 170 km/h quand des policiers en motos le rattrapent, le font ralentir puis s'arreter.
- Bonjour monsieur, vos papiers SVP.
Le policier se penche alors vers la portière. Et c'est là, oh horreur, qu'il s'apperçoit que l'homme au volant est nu comme un ver.
- Puis- je savoir svp, la raison de cette nudité dans votre véhicule ?
- Ben voila, le concessionnaire m'a dit : Faites attention car à partir de 150, elle commence à sucer...

Reaganista, I stopped taking you seriously a long time ago. ;)

[J Rad]

It's one of those invented words that helps the people it applies to feel better about themselves.

Prestidigitation = card tricks
Paranormal investigation = conspiracy theorist
Musician = unemployed

paranormal investigations are actually really interesting though except the ones they show on the sci-fi channel because most of those are staged and scripted and tend to be major let downs

[mph4ever]

we have a ghost in our house and in our pub. we got them investigated and it appears to be the spirits of people who lived here many years ago. the house is nearly 200 years old and the pub over 300 years old. none of that staged crap on discovery though, this was by special request

i have an open mind on this stuff since i can't explain some of the things that happen. i also stayed in a castle near bristol that was haunted as fu'ck, some bloke that henry viii chopped his head off apparently

[VomitStainedCretin]

Prestidigitation is a 0 Level D&D Wizard/Sorceror spell as well. Further proof not only card tricks are witchery but that Dungeons & Dragons encourages kids to worship Beelzebub and kill themselves.

[siva_chair]

Basically Siva is saying that something which has its origin, however remote and vestigial, in one place is the exclusive product of that place such that it can be said to be of that place and nowhere else. In this he is saying that American culture, which originated in Europe, is European; that European culture, which originated in Phoenicia, is Phoenician; that Phoenician culture, which originated in Sumer, is Sumerian; and ultimately that human culture, which originated in Africa, is African. I cannot accept that argument.

For one example, European oil painting probably originated in the Low Countries, but it's wrong to say Venetian oil paintings are Dutch in origin or style. For another, American law originated in English common law but it is wrong to say American law is English law.

Actually that is not what I am saying.

I said Rock/R&B/ect are American styles of music. This is really all I said and people seem to be taking it the wrong way because for one reason or another they got all culturally butt hurt over it.

I will liken my argument to pizza. What we commonly consider pizza today pretty much came to be in Naples, and we still consider it Italian food, despite the fact that it is in America that you will probably find more variants and styles (Chicago style, New York style, St. Louis style, California style, ect.) than anywhere else in the world. Not to mention, modern pizza rarely resembles original Neapolitan style pizza. Nonetheless, it is still considered Italian food.

i just think its funny that of all the many things to claim as american he picks punk and the beatles. like if he'd of said obesity and american football i could understand. i honestly think hes taking the p!ss. and then he tells me he has studied music history as if that makes a difference.

Ha! I'm not even the one who first mentioned those two things you fool!

I mentioned I had taken a lot of music history because you said I seemed to be well informed about it. It wasn't some argument from authority or anything.

[Smokey D]

I said Rock/R&B/ect are American styles of music. This is really all I said and people seem to be taking it the wrong way because for one reason or another they got all culturally butt hurt over it.

You're denying that a different culture cannot import an American invention, incorporate local characteristics into it and thereby transform it into something different from the American original.


I will liken my argument to pizza. What we commonly consider pizza today pretty much came to be in Naples, and we still consider it Italian food, despite the fact that it is in America that you will probably find more variants and styles (Chicago style, New York style, St. Louis style, California style, ect.) than anywhere else in the world. Not to mention, modern pizza rarely resembles original Neapolitan style pizza. Nonetheless, it is still considered Italian food.

To be honest, only someone who hasn't eaten Italian pizza would say American pizza is Italian.

As a counter example, I would say that despite Edward Hopper using essentially European painting techniques, he was a distinctively American artist. Same for Pollock and Rauchenburg and co.

And http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusion_cuisine

[siva_chair]

You're denying that a different culture cannot import an American invention, incorporate local characteristics into it and thereby transform it into something different from the American original.

No I think you are taking what I originally said far beyond what was even implied.

I never said a different culture couldn't import an American invention or anything like that. I simply said that rock and roll music, ect. is an American style.

To be honest, only someone who hasn't eaten Italian pizza would say American pizza is Italian.

Pizza is pretty much considered an Italian dish everywhere here in America.

As a counter example, I would say that despite Edward Hopper using essentially European painting techniques, he was a distinctively American artist. Same for Pollock and Rauchenburg and co.

Yeah and the Beatles were British artists doing American music. Doesn't mean rock and roll is no longer an American music style.

I don't really see how that makes said European techniques no longer European.

And http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusion_cuisine

Yeah I realize you can combine foods.

[Smokey D]

No I think you are taking what I originally said far beyond what was even implied.

I never said a different culture couldn't import an American invention or anything like that. I simply said that rock and roll music, ect. is an American style.


Which is denying that British or French, or Finnish or whatever rock, despite using an American template is distinct from the American original. Which is about as absurd as saying rock n roll is European or African because it incorporated European and African elements.

Pizza is pretty much considered an Italian dish everywhere here in America.


Yes. But how many have had Neapolitan pizza?


Yeah and the Beatles were British artists doing American music. Doesn't mean rock and roll is no longer an American music style.

Perhaps I was unclear. It was a uniquely American style.

I don't really see how that makes said European techniques no longer European.

So all art by American artists is European?

That destroys like half of America's cultural output.


Yeah I realize you can combine foods.

And thus make it not a product of the original.

[siva_chair]

Which is denying that British or French, or Finnish or whatever rock, despite using an American template is distinct from the American original.

No it isn't. I'm not denying any of those things exist.

All I have said is that rock and roll music is a distinctly American style. It originated, evolved, grew out of other American styles of music.

Which is about as absurd as saying rock n roll is European or African because it incorporated European and African elements.

No, it isn't about as absurd as saying that.

Yes. But how many have had Neapolitan pizza?

How in the **** should I know? I don't know everyone in America.

Perhaps I was unclear. It was a uniquely American style. So all art by American artists is European?

That destroys like half of America's cultural output.

No, but I would say Impressionism, Cubism, Surrealism, Expressionism, ect. are all European styles. Wouldn't you?

And thus make it not a product of the original.

Sure it is. It wouldn't exist if the original didn't.

What you seem to be implying is that Italian food is no longer Italian food because lots of cultures have embraced it and cook it now, so it is no longer Italian food. I'm sorry, but Italian food is still Italian food regardless of whether it is cooked in Italy, the US, Mexico, Egypt, ect by an Italian, an Indian, a Brit, a Yank, ect.

[Smokey D]

No it isn't. I'm not denying any of those things exist.

All I have said is that rock and roll music is a distinctly American style. It originated, evolved, grew out of other American styles of music.

Okay but that's not saying all styles which emerged from rock are still American.



How in the **** should I know? I don't know everyone in America.

Er, rhetorical question.

No, but I would say Impressionism, Cubism, Surrealism, Expressionism, ect. are all European styles. Wouldn't you?


Yes. But abstract expressionism, color field painting, minimalism, pop art etc all of which emerged from European art (specifically, those styles you mentioned above), as well as American realism, which followed from European realist schools, are distinctly AMerican notwithstanding their European origins.

What you seem to be implying is that Italian food is no longer Italian food because lots of cultures have embraced it and cook it now, so it is no longer Italian food. I'm sorry, but Italian food is still Italian food regardless of whether it is cooked in Italy, the US, Mexico, Egypt, ect by an Italian, an Indian, a Brit, a Yank, ect.

No, what I'm saying is that Americans took an Italian dish and altered it so significantly that it is now wrong to call it Italian.

[siva_chair]

Okay but that's not saying all styles which emerged from rock are still American.

I don't recall where I ever really said that.

Yes. But abstract expressionism, color field painting, minimalism, pop art etc all of which emerged from European art (specifically, those styles you mentioned above), as well as American realism, which followed from European realist schools, are distinctly AMerican notwithstanding their European origins.

Yeah and British Rock is British and German shizer videos are German what is your point? I never said they weren't.

What I have said is that the defining elements that make rock music, rock music, were in fact created, cultivated, and defined in America. Thus, rock music is an American style.

No, what I'm saying is that Americans took an Italian dish and altered it so significantly that it is now wrong to call it Italian.

Ok, then tell me what have non-Americans done with rock and roll music to alter it so significantly to where rock is no longer and American style?

It is like adding a North American spice or two to Italian food doesn't change the fact that it is still Italian food.

[mph4ever]

you said that the beatles music was american. you also said that punk was american. you then said that it was just a bunch of brits playing it. we then debated their influences, which we all agreed, will always have some input to what they created, but you still denied that the beatles music was british, regadless of influences. the beatles were british, the beach boys were american.

going back the point about pizza. pizza bases are made from flour, so are lot of others things, it does not mean that apple pie and pizza are the same thing, they just have common ingredients. same with music. the beatles may have some ingredients in common with american music, i recall one bloke outlining a fair few from the anthology, but their music was british, they were british, distinctly british

see, when you have a society that has all but destroyed the culture of the locals, like america has done to the indigenous people of america, you can't really claim to have too much culture of your own since you brought most of what you have with you or immigrants brought it with them. maybe you can call the turkey yours, and thanksgiving and hamburgers but most of the other stuff you imported, and imported very recently by comparison with the cultures of europe or africa or asia:chug:

thats why large sections of american society are called hispanic or african american or irish american or italian american

[Smokey D]

I don't recall where I ever really said that.

When you said:

I'm not trying to take away the important and vast contributions of other countries to these musical styles, but these styles are still styles that were primarily and originally cultivated by American culture. Thus they are still considered American music styles (and rightfully so).



Yeah and British Rock is British and German shizer videos are German what is your point? I never said they weren't.

What I have said is that the defining elements that make rock music, rock music, were in fact created, cultivated, and defined in America. Thus, rock music is an American style.

Okay but no rock band sounds anything like some rocknroll band from the 50s so it's stupid to ignore the influences developed elsewhere.

Ok, then tell me what have non-Americans done with rock and roll music to alter it so significantly to where rock is no longer and American style?

What rock band sounds anything like music did in the 50s?

It is like adding a North American spice or two to Italian food doesn't change the fact that it is still Italian food.

Well obviously you haven't eaten real Italian pizza then because pretty much the only similarity is tomato.