Horse racing

[Hababi]

Should it be banned? In case you missed it, a horse was killed on the track yesterday, after it broke both of its ankles while running. Horse raising leads to a huge number of deaths each year and is pretty much unavoidably exploitative.

So, ban it?

[guitrguy]

we should probably ban guns before we worry about banning horse races.

[Hababi]

we should probably ban guns before we worry about banning horse races.

The vast majority of gun owners are responsible, and the vast majority of guns are handled responsibly.

The same can not be said of the horse racing industry.

[Bordello]

sources plz

[mph4ever]

i think its cruel when they chop off the bollox in order to improve the horses performance over fences, gelded or something they call it

[beso negro]

I'm glad you made this thread.

No it shouldn't be banned, just like dog fighting shouldn't be. It's insane that Michael Vick is locked up for dog fighting but a perfectly healthy horse being forced to run for no purpose other than entertainment to the point where she broke both her legs and dies is ok.

[je suis un beau chapeau]

I'm glad you made this thread.

No it shouldn't be banned, just like dog fighting shouldn't be. It's insane that Michael Vick is locked up for dog fighting but a perfectly healthy horse being forced to run for no purpose other than entertainment to the point where she broke both her legs and dies is ok.

theyre not really healthy though they have tiny bones and big muscles idk i think theyre on horse steroids imo, they dont castrate them for performance its just a side effect of steroids that they make your balls fall off

[mph4ever]

theyre not really healthy though they have tiny bones and big muscles idk i think theyre on horse steroids imo, they dont castrate them for performance its just a side effect of steroids that they make your balls fall off

hahaha, but seriously though, if a horse is a little out of control but looks like they might have potential then they are permitted to chop their bollox off in order to see if they can calm down a little

[je suis un beau chapeau]

idk if i got my bits chopped off i dont think id be very calm about it something doesnt add up about it

[mph4ever]

i know its only wiki but here goes anyway

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gelding

[je suis un beau chapeau]

i dont even have to read it wikipedia isnt reliable, plus your argument makes no sense chopping people up doesnt make them calm. i got a hangnail the other day, it didnt make me want to do everything somebody told me to do

[Against Miik!]

Things like the Kentucky Derby should be banned because that many rich people shouldn't be allowed to all be in one venue at the same time. That should be banned.

[mph4ever]

ok, i am not even making an argument, just pointing to some reference


Definition: A gelding is a castrated male horse. Unless a horse is to be used for breeding purposes they should be castrated. This can make them more even tempered. A stallion who is gelded later in live will retain more stallion-like behaviors.
Pronunciation: g e l d (short e) (hard g)
Also Known As: castrated


http://horses.about.com/od/glossaryofhorsetermsg/g/gelding.htm

Gelding means castrating a male horse. This makes the horse unable to reproduce.


Most players wait until a horse is around 4 years old before deciding whether or not to geld, but gelding can be done at any age.


Reasons to Geld:

1. Speed - Gelding a horse sometimes improves the speed and racing performance.

2. Consistency - Gelding sometimes improves racing consistency.


3. Longer Career - Gelding sometimes allows a horse to race effectively until a slightly older age.

4. Less Likely To Be Claimed - A gelded horse is less likely to be claimed in a Claiming race, since a gelded male horse has no breeding value.

5. To Prevent Use As Sire - Gelding may be appropriate for a horse that has not produced a good racing record. This will prevent any future owners from attempting to use the horse in breeding.

6. To Stop Use As Sire - Gelding may also be appropriate for a stud that has proven to be a poor producer. This will prevent future breeding.


Reasons not to Geld:

1. Gelding does not always produce a noticeable improvement in racing performance.


2. Breeding - If you ever might want to use the horse for breeding, then obviously you should not geld. Gelding is not reversible.


3. Reduced Value - Generally, gelded horses have a lower value than horses that have not been gelded. This is because gelded horses have no stud value.


Making the Decision:

Only you can make the decision whether the possible advantages of gelding outweigh the disadvantages. If you are satisfied with the performance of your horse, or if your horse has future breeding value as a sire you probably do not want to geld.

Please note the following:
- If you geld a horse currently in the Breeding Pasture it should be sent to the Horse Pool since they will be unable to breed, race or produce any income for your stable.

- Gelding cannot be reversed for any reason, so be completely sure you want to geld the horse in question.

- You are not able to retire a gelding to the breeding pasture once it's racing career is over.

- A horse currently in auction can not be gelded.



http://www.trophyhorse.com/help/topic.aspx?id=44

[VomitStainedCretin]

i know its only wiki but here goes anyway

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeldingSome nice castration photographs there

[FIGHTCRIMEALLTHETIME]

I'm glad you made this thread.

No it shouldn't be banned, just like dog fighting shouldn't be. It's insane that Michael Vick is locked up for dog fighting but a perfectly healthy horse being forced to run for no purpose other than entertainment to the point where she broke both her legs and dies is ok.
k on one hand you have a sport where the purpose is to kill animals and on the other you have a sport where animals have been killed in a number of accidents
one of these needs to be banned and one needs to be more thoughtfully regulated
choose wisely

[mph4ever]

Some nice castration photographs there

i used to take ketemine in an earlier life

[Der Übermensch]

i dont even have to read it wikipedia isnt reliable, plus your argument makes no sense chopping people up doesnt make them calm. i got a hangnail the other day, it didnt make me want to do everything somebody told me to do

As a Horse owner, yes it does make sense. Removing the testes means they don't get the testosterone of a Stallion. A Gelded horse is much gentler and easier to handle than a Stallion.

Racing Horses are less likely to be gelded however, as doing to forfeits potential breeding fees if the horse is successful. Gelded horses are most common in riding schools and trail horses.

[descendents1]

I've been doing pretty well at the track lately so **** off but talk to me in a few months.

[je suis un beau chapeau]

why are you all ganging up on me, im entitles to have an opiniopn this is why i hate forums everybody thinks theyre right all the time


what you are saying makes absolutely no sense but if you want to belive it then go ahead

[Futue te Ipsum]

what? but horse racing supports numerous positive industries!

like gambling!

[beso negro]

k on one hand you have a sport where the purpose is to kill animals and on the other you have a sport where animals have been killed in a number of accidents
one of these needs to be banned and one needs to be more thoughtfully regulated
choose wisely

i think dog fighting is gay too bro but if that's someones hobby then so be it.

[Der Übermensch]

why are you all ganging up on me, im entitles to have an opiniopn this is why i hate forums everybody thinks theyre right all the time


what you are saying makes absolutely no sense but if you want to belive it then go ahead

You are entitled to an opinion, but by stating it, we are entitled to point out how inanely stupid it is.

I own ****ing horses. Trust me... you are wrong... Gelding is done primarily for temperament/handling, as a gelding is not as spirited as a Stallion.

(Well actually they aren't ****ing horses cause they are both geldings...)

[Reaganista]

no legalize dog fighting instead

k on one hand you have a sport where the purpose is to kill animals
what you mean like hunting?
because you're obviously not talking about dog fighting you'd have to be retarded to think the purpose of dog fighting is for the dog to die

[Der Übermensch]

Screw dog fighting. Gladiatorial combat is where it is at!

[je suis un beau chapeau]

You are entitled to an opinion, but by stating it, we are entitled to point out how inanely stupid it is.

I own ****ing horses. Trust me... you are wrong... Gelding is done primarily for temperament/handling, as a gelding is not as spirited as a Stallion.

(Well actually they aren't ****ing horses cause they are both geldings...)

now i know youre wrong. if you were right you wouldnt be resorting to swearing and making fun of me


nice try, just stop trying to force your opinions on other people

[Dave de Sylvia]

I'm glad you made this thread.

No it shouldn't be banned, just like dog fighting shouldn't be. It's insane that Michael Vick is locked up for dog fighting but a perfectly healthy horse being forced to run for no purpose other than entertainment to the point where she broke both her legs and dies is ok.
Except it's horse racing, not horse fighting. Which would also be awesome.

[FIGHTCRIMEALLTHETIME]

i think dog fighting is gay too bro but if that's someones hobby then so be it
well in actuality i think both should be banned
dog fighting because its morally wrong at its core
and horse racing cuz its driven by money at this point which means it would be practically impossible to get it cleaned up
i think both are cruel along with artificial growth hormones

[FIGHTCRIMEALLTHETIME]

no legalize dog fighting instead


what you mean like hunting?
because you're obviously not talking about dog fighting you'd have to be retarded to think the purpose of dog fighting is for the dog to die

uh yes actually the purpose is for two dogs to rip each other to shreads until one can be declared a winner
this most often means his opponent is killed or crippled and almost always left w/ little time left on this world
the same is often true for the winner
and all this so that people can go primal and shi and get off at the sight of two living things killing each other
hunting is different because poaching is illegal and hunting is regulated by seasons when animals get over populated anyways

[Reaganista]

uh yes actually the purpose is for two dogs to rip each other to shreads until one can be declared a winner

for 2 dogs to fight

this most often means his opponent is killed or crippled and almost always left w/ little time left on this world
the same is often true for the winner

no it's not stop talking out your ***

and all this so that people can go primal and shi and get off at the sight of two living things killing each other

no actually it's all so people can gamble
if people just wanted to watch living things kill each other they would just watch some wild animals since they kill each other all the time
hunting is different because poaching is illegal and hunting is regulated by seasons when animals get over populated anyways
no hunting is worse

[Der Übermensch]

nice try, just stop trying to force your opinions on other people

I don't force my opinion on others. I just assail them with cold, hard facts.

Do this.
Go to www.google.com
Type in "Define: gelding"
Read "Horses which have been castrated (gelded) as the temperament of a stallion is not usually suited for an extended racing career."

"A male horse that has been castrated. Gelding is a minor surgical procedure and usually enhances a horse’s temperament. "

[dei]

I think dog fighting and horse racing should be banned.

[je suis un beau chapeau]

I don't force my opinion on others. I just assail them with cold, hard facts.

Do this.
Go to www.google.com
Type in "Define: gelding"
Read "Horses which have been castrated (gelded) as the temperament of a stallion is not usually suited for an extended racing career."

"A male horse that has been castrated. Gelding is a minor surgical procedure and usually enhances a horse’s temperament. "
you got balls'd

[Der Übermensch]

Yes, I do have balls.

That means that I produce testosterone which then gives me a temperament generally considered to be "masculine."

If I didn't have balls, I wouldn't have testosterone, and thus would be much more docile and effeminate.

[free_thinkers_are_dangerous]

It's sort of an existential argument. If the horses weren't being raced, they probably wouldn't be alive, so the choice is non-existence or being alive to race.

I mean sure they could chill on a ranch somewhere, but there would probably just end up being less horses in all. I don't think racing animals is so cruel that the horse would choose death over racing.

[Reaganista]

if they want to choose death over racing they could just refuse to race they'd probably get killed eventually if they did that

[descendents1]

Hunting isn't that bad (never done it, definitely would, wouldn't kill anything bigger than a turkey, which is delicious btw), hell, we use dogs to hunt, and we'd use horses to hunt if we wanted to. Sure, people are opposed to hunting, and that's cool I get that you don't wanna kill **** but what the **** is wrong with racing horses jessushcrist they were built to run fast blame god

[BassRevelation1029]

Should it be banned? In case you missed it, a horse was killed on the track yesterday, after it broke both of its ankles while running. Horse raising leads to a huge number of deaths each year

Sources

and is pretty much unavoidably exploitative.

Boxing is exploitative. Its no longer about athletic ability, just money.
Not to mention, they're humans.

[dei]

But people choose to box. Horses are made to race.

[descendents1]

But people choose to box. Horses are made to race.

sooooo ooooo ****ing true qftqft

[BassRevelation1029]

But people choose to box..
just as gamecocks choose to fight.

But thats illegal, and just as exploitative.

[dei]

I don't want to go back and forth, guy. You're wrong.

[Aaron]

Ban boxing. Those animals aren't smart enough to know better.

[McP3000]

Boxing doesn't need to be banned. It makes great movies.

[Aaron]

Adriaaaaaaaan!!

[descendents1]

Then I say we ban boxing movies. I can do this all night.

[BridgeToSolace]

I'd ban NASCAR before I banned horse racing.

But I wouldn't ban either.

[siva_chair]

No it shouldn't be banned Seabiscuit is awesome.

[descendents1]

Spider-Man never belonged on a horse.

[siva_chair]

Ok well Hildalgo was awesome too.

[beso negro]

regardless of how lame boxing, horse racing, or dog/**** fighting may be, banning them would be stupid

/thread

[dei]

It would be dumb to ban boxing, but horse racing and dog fighting have to go.

[BridgeToSolace]

I thought dog fighting was illegal.

[Der Übermensch]

It's a state by state thing. I think a few still allow it.

[dei]

Those states should be bombed.

[BridgeToSolace]

Dog fighting is unlawful in all 50 states and the District of Columbia, as well as Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands. Before the federal law was passed, New York already had issued felony penalties up to four years to individuals fighting any types of animals, but some other levels of participation were only misdemeanor offenses.

As of 2008, dog fighting is a felony in 49 states and a misdemeanor in Wyoming, although a bill that is advancing through its state legislature would make it a felony in "the Equality state" as well.[11]

In most states, it is against the law (and often a felony) to even attend a dog fighting event, regardless of direct participation. According to authorities, dog fighting is increasingly practiced by gangs, and is linked to other unlawful activities, such as gambling.[12]

Loves me the wiki.

[Der Übermensch]

Hmm... thought it was still allowed in Louisiana... That might be ****-fighting though now that I think about it.

[mph4ever]

i read somewhere that the horse breaking its two ankles was down to a weakness being bred into them as a consequence of more and more selective breeding. if that is the case then it should be banned, thats as immoral as a coldwar russian elite athelete program or an aryan race program

dog fighting is sick. i know one guy who has a dog and he parades him around just when the scars are going to heal to show others that he still has it. once healed he tosses him straight back in the pit

boxing is gross too but i can' comment on whether boxers have the ability to say "no, i don't want to do this". horses and dogs can''t and so we should stop exploiting them.

[McP3000]

boxing is gross too but i can' comment on whether boxers have the ability to say "no, i don't want to do this". horses and dogs can''t and so we should stop exploiting them.
boxers aren't forced to do anything. There might be a lot of pressure once you get into the scene and culture, but thats really it.

[mph4ever]

boxers aren't forced to do anything. There might be a lot of pressure once you get into the scene and culture, but thats really it.

and it might be the only way out of the social situation you are born into. there are the few that make it to the top and then there are the millions of others who try to make a living from fighting world-wide. i'd even say we are being silly to not extend the inclusion of boxing to all form of fighting where the main objective is to seriously hurt your opponent.

i am not sure wrestling or judo falls into this category since it a little more technical, although wwe and wwf should be banned for its total stupidity

[McP3000]

and it might be the only way out of the social situation you are born into. there are the few that make it to the top and then there are the millions of others who try to make a living from fighting world-wide. i'd even say we are being silly to not extend the inclusion of boxing to all form of fighting where the main objective is to seriously hurt your opponent.

i am not sure wrestling or judo falls into this category since it a little more technical, although wwe and wwf should be banned for its total stupidity
WWE and WWF isn't dangerous at all other than occasional accidents...but that happens when you don't get to the bathroom in time so idk

And if we ban boxing, Football will go next, and soon enough we'll just have golf

**** that

[mph4ever]

WWE and WWF isn't dangerous at all other than occasional accidents...but that happens when you don't get to the bathroom in time so idk

And if we ban boxing, Football will go next, and soon enough we'll just have golf

**** that

i know, its like a lot of things, i can dislike their being in existence but i've got to tolerate their existence and get on with my own.

although it would be funny for a bunch of vegetarians to turn up at the holyfield - tyson rematch protesting against eating raw ears!

[ringworm]

we should ban auto racing and other sports that needlessly emit greenhouse gases and use so many derivatives of oil wayyyyy before horse racing :)

we should ban bullfighting before horse races too

[Avalanche.]

and it might be the only way out of the social situation you are born into. there are the few that make it to the top and then there are the millions of others who try to make a living from fighting world-wide. i'd even say we are being silly to not extend the inclusion of boxing to all form of fighting where the main objective is to seriously hurt your opponent.

i am not sure wrestling or judo falls into this category since it a little more technical, although wwe and wwf should be banned for its total stupidity

Judo, Wrestling, BJJ, Muay Thai, Boxing etc. are all quite technical in their own right. In each of those arts, the aim is to prove your superiority over an opponent through means of physical force. They are all one in the same, and I love each of the sports. There is no pressure to do any of them, including boxing.

I have no opinion on your WWE/WWF thing.

[Reaganista]

someone explain how it's ever wrong to do something that only "victimizes" something that is incapable of valuing anything

[Smokey D]

I don't know if an animal can attach a value to life or to living without pain but it's pretty obvious that they don't like being in pain.

[dei]

I expected better from you.

[Smokey D]

You think animals like being in pain?

[dei]

My post was meant for Reaganista. You never let me down, Smokey D.

[Der Übermensch]

You can't expect anything from Reagan :p

[siva_chair]

and it might be the only way out of the social situation you are born into. there are the few that make it to the top and then there are the millions of others who try to make a living from fighting world-wide. i'd even say we are being silly to not extend the inclusion of boxing to all form of fighting where the main objective is to seriously hurt your opponent.

i am not sure wrestling or judo falls into this category since it a little more technical, although wwe and wwf should be banned for its total stupidity

Umm boxing is a highly technical skill.

I take it you aren't a boxer.

[mph4ever]

for avalanache also

i've tried boxing, one of my mates was on the national team, stayed amateur. i know how technical it can be. i also know how protected you are for three rounds with soft gloves, headgear and a ref who is not commercially minded. but i am more of a street fighter myself, fu'ck all the etiquette.

where i don't like boxing is where you get a roaring crowd wanting a particular person to knock the fu'ck out of someone else, you know, like professional boxing. i don't like it. maybe i don't like the professional nature of it i.e. knock the fu'ck out of each other for money, in the same way as i don't like horse racing because the horses are doing it for others to win money with the risk of physical damage to the horse, or i don't like the idea of two purposely bred dogs being thrown into a pit until one gives up. its just aint right.

at the same time, free world, do what the fu'ck you want, just an opinion

[marcus_in_absentia]

Horse racing brings in the dough. Nuff' said.

[Mr. Ron]

what

thats terrible reasoning

[marcus_in_absentia]

I'm not justifying it, just stating that as long as these horse races continue bringing in the money, it will never really be banned.

[Reaganista]

I don't know if an animal can attach a value to life or to living without pain but it's pretty obvious that they don't like being in pain.
sometimes but that doesnt mean they 'like' not being in pain or that they can value anything

[dei]

Um...

[CarnageFairy]

I think what he's saying is that animals avoid pain simply because they are programmed not to, rather than out of fear of bodily harm or the imminent extinguishing of their own consciousness.

They aren't aware of pain or mortality in the same way that people are.

Presumably.

I mean, do animals experience emotions in the same way we do? Not simple reactions to stimuli (pain = danger = flee! flee!) without reason, but are they able to recognize causes and effects that lead to emotional states and act upon those states? Are they self-aware in any capacity?

If not, then what is the point of attempting to limit their suffering and destruction at our hands for any reason besides attempting to offset the scales we've already tipped to hell and back?

And if so, well, how can we possibly go on the way we are knowing that all these other lifeforms, the same ones we slaughter by the millions and run down in the streets, have the very same spark as we do?


And why the **** doesn't anyone think twice about chopping down a TREE?!

[Sammy_L_D]

Legalize orangutan knife fights.

[descendents1]

Legalize orangutan knife fights.

that's like half as profitable as horse racing

[Futue te Ipsum]

i'd pay to see it

[Ando!]

Should it be banned? In case you missed it, a horse was killed on the track yesterday, after it broke both of its ankles while running. Horse raising leads to a huge number of deaths each year and is pretty much unavoidably exploitative.

So, ban it?

um are you serious

[GreyHam]

im all for banning horse racing

[BassRevelation1029]

i forgot all about this silly thread.

ban horse racing? of course not, pussies

[Reaganista]

ban dog fighting of course not pussies

[dei]

i forgot all about this silly thread.

ban horse racing? of course not, pussies

Wot?

[Volumnius Flush]

Horse racing is an inevitable fact of life, as long as there are short skinny guys who will ride the hell out of 'em.

By all means, the vast majority of these horses live lives permeated with luxury, the kind of treatment that would suit a king, and our genuinely loved and cared for.

We can't ban horse racing under the pretense of cruelty to animals, or then we'd have to ban smoking for cruelty to idiots. Not that you're an idiot if you smoke, I smoke myself, it was just a good analogy I wanted to throw out there.

[dei]

No, I think we should also ban smoking.

[Volumnius Flush]

No, I think we should also ban smoking.

Even in the privacy of our own homes? If people want to kill themselves, let them.

[dei]

If there are children living there, yes.

[Volumnius Flush]

If there are children living there, yes.

I believe the law should discriminate between children being present, and the fact you may have kids but they aren't around at the time.

Now if you can leave your kids alone for 5 minutes go for it, but don't smoke around them, I agree.

And if you're married, just go outside and let your spouse look after them.

[Ando!]

I believe the law should discriminate between children being present, and the fact you may have kids but they aren't around at the time.

Now if you can leave your kids alone for 5 minutes go for it, but don't smoke around them, I agree.

And if you're married, just go outside and let your spouse look after them.

no one's actually that responsible

[Volumnius Flush]

no one's actually that responsible

Stay-at-home mothers do it everyday, and when the father gets home, the mother might want to take a rest so it is not so preposterous...

[Ando!]

Stay-at-home mothers do it everyday, and when the father gets home, the mother might want to take a rest so it is not so preposterous...

you're not going to get trashy white parents to stop smoking in front of their babies, sorry

[dei]

I'm not giving them a choice.

[Ando!]

I'm not giving them a choice.

which is a much better solution

[Reaganista]

my trashy white parents stopped smoking around me after i saw a psa and told them to stop its my oldest conscious memory

[Volumnius Flush]

you're not going to get trashy white parents to stop smoking in front of their babies, sorry

Tell that to Dei.

[Dave de Sylvia]

my trashy white parents stopped smoking around me after i saw a psa and told them to stop its my oldest conscious memory

by psa do you mean dei lurking in the corner of the room with a disapproving look on his face

[Ando!]

Tell that to Dei.

well if you get rid of cigarettes altogether problem's gone

[Ando!]

my trashy white parents stopped smoking around me after i saw a psa and told them to stop its my oldest conscious memory

well it's pretty unlikely that most kids would do that

besides we were talking about legislators stopping people from smoking in front of their kids. Obviously a parent is much more likely to stop because their kid asked them than if some politiker tells em to

[Reaganista]

by psa do you mean dei lurking in the corner of the room with a disapproving look on his face

no it was this add on tv from the 80s about how smoking is bad or w/e

[Jude]

Sweatshop labor is way worse than horse racing so if sweatshops are ok then horse racing is awesome by analogy, so why the hell would we ban it

[Dave de Sylvia]

wtf has horse racing got to do with this

[Ando!]

just improving steve's shitty thread

[Jude]

It's not a hard thing to do you just say something that isn't retarded and bam, quality is tripled

or, as in this case, something that is retarded and same result