Hey Ron/other Barrack fanboys/girls, still believe Wright is just misunderstood

[Hababi]

Now that he had his own press event, embraced the AIDS conspiracy, preached eugenics and racist stereotypes, and raved about Osama Bin Laden?

Also, do you think that Wright is just trying to sink Obama? Michael Crowley does: http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_stump/archive/2008/04/28/wrightmare.aspx

[Mr. Ron]

Didn't see it. I'll find the video somewhere.

[Iskandar]

I don't give a crap about Wright.

[Hababi]

Didn't see it. I'll find the video somewhere.

Here's some more info on it (from another liberal, no less):
http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2008/04/the_reverend_wright.html

[Russell]

I love this game. The one were we pretend a pastor = another person running for president.

[Mr. Ron]

First off, I don't like him. I do think he's a racist (after going over his speeches again), I was just clarifying what some of his social views are of the status of blacks in American society.

[Iskandar]

Brian, is that you?

[Hababi]

First off, I don't like him. I do think he's a racist (after going over his speeches again), I was just clarifying what some of his social views are of the status of blacks in American society.

Ah good, I'm just glad you're over this "Jeremiah Wright was just taken out of context" stuff

[Russell]

Brian, is that you?

Maybe

[Iskandar]

Obama in '08!

[Russell]

\m/ Unfortunately wright gets the smear campaign going, and people actually feed into it.

[1338 h4x0r]

BROS BEFORE HOES

BALLIN' IS OUR FATE WITH OBAMA IN 2008

\:angry:_\m/


Also, nobody even cares about Rev. Wright anymore. Old news.

[Already_Taken]

Serenity you are such a douche to call someone out by name in a thread title.

I don't see why it even matters, as Wright =/= Obama. Plus I don't think Obama is even that religious. He may go to church on Sundays, but a vast majority of democrats don't even go to church or believe in God. I don't think Obama hailed Wright as all-knowing and wise, so to use Wright's extremism against Obama's campaign makes you look desperate and makes Obama look like the clear front-runner.

[Hababi]

Serenity you are such a douche to call someone out by name in a thread title.


oh hush up

[Already_Taken]

I hope you know that nobody will ever take the attitude you bring to this website seriously in real life. You ideas will be ignored and trampled, while little red-headed children will only pity your existence.

[thedeadwalk!]

Hasn't Obama separated himself enough from this guy?

[Hababi]

Hasn't Obama separated himself enough from this guy?

No. He really didn't separate himself at all from him. Instead he embraced him, like his poor old granny, who was subjected to character assassination in his speech, and the black community.

[Russell]

bullshit

[Hababi]

"I could no more disavow him than..."

[thedeadwalk!]

No. He really didn't separate himself at all from him. Instead he embraced him, like his poor old granny, who was subjected to character assassination in his speech, and the black community.
What do you suppose the likelihood is that Obama actually agrees with Wright?

At worst, I see this as a case of a good man not acting rather than someone in league with the guy.

[1338 h4x0r]

"I could no more disavow him than..."

If this is the absolute WORST dirt you can dig up on Obama, then I'm still voting for him

[Kingofdudes]

I like how you talk about how obsessive Obama fanboys are, but you seem twice as obsessive about him than his lovers.

[1338 h4x0r]

I like how you talk about how obsessive Obama fanboys are, but you seem twice as obsessive about him than his lovers.

Yeah, that's pretty obsessive considering half of my blog posts are about how I'd like to bob my head up and down on Obama's fat black dick and the other half are about gladly I would swallow every last sticky thread of his load

[siva_chair]

There are plenty enough things wrong with Obama's politics for me to not want to vote for him without having to bring up Mr. Wright and his insane rhetoric.

[Hababi]

If this is the absolute WORST dirt you can dig up on Obama, then I'm still voting for him

Oh no, his health care plan sucks, his foreign policy is ridiculous and full of contradictions, he has not taken a strong stance on China, and the list goes on and on.

I'm just happy to see Jeremiah Wright ostensibly set on bringing down Barrack Obama.

[siva_chair]

Oh no, his health care plan sucks, his foreign policy is ridiculous and full of contradictions, he has not taken a strong stance on China, and the list goes on and on.

I'm just happy to see Jeremiah Wright ostensibly set on bringing down Barrack Obama.

Don't forget he hates guns.

[McP3000]

even though i think this Jeremiah Wright thing is blown out of proportion

im loving the results :3

[ringworm]

but the question still is unsolved, is Wright TRYING to screw up Obamas campaign?

One pundit asked why not wait until December to start this recent circus of TV appearances?

my mind has drastically changed about Wrights views, once just ramblings, now do seem derogatory, inflammatory, insulting and just all around ignorant.

anyone who saw him at the NAACP and still thinks hes not insane, may just be insane, he looks more and more like a black, male version Anne Coulter

[McP3000]

Ann Coulter isn't a white supremacist to my knowledge though

[Smokey D]

She's plenty batshit crazy in other aspects to make up for that though.

[Russell]

but the question still is unsolved, is Wright TRYING to screw up Obamas campaign?

One pundit asked why not wait until December to start this recent circus of TV appearances?

my mind has drastically changed about Wrights views, once just ramblings, now do seem derogatory, inflammatory, insulting and just all around ignorant.

anyone who saw him at the NAACP and still thinks hes not insane, may just be insane, he looks more and more like a black, male version Anne Coulter

I don't think hes trying to screw up the campaign, necessarily. I also don't think he really cares how his rants affect Obama's campaign. He seems to have his own agenda, and willing to pursue that agenda at the cost of Obama.

[DBoons Ghost]

Steve, please comment on the following statements and what they mean to you.

Comment 1: You are not your post count.
Comment 2: John McCain is not John Hagee
Comment 3: Barack Obama is not Jeremiah Wright
Comment 4: Ann Coulter is in fact, an insane bitch.

Each one of these statements provides a fact. Can you identify which comments are factual?

[McP3000]

Steve, please comment on the following statements and what they mean to you.

Comment 1: You are not your post count.
Comment 2: John McCain is not John Hagee
Comment 3: Barack Obama is not Jeremiah Wright
Comment 4: Ann Coulter is in fact, an insane bitch.

Each one of these statements provides a fact. Can you identify which comments are factual?
i don't get the reference to 1, and i dont see how 4 is relevant

[DBoons Ghost]

i don't get the reference to 1, and i dont see how 4 is relevant

I'm just trying to make a point.

I could have failed, but I did try.

Any opportunity to make fun of Ann Coulter I will take it, as well as prove that we are not representative of our post counts here, therefore, Obama has no control over what his Pastor might say. He is not his pastor. He is his own man who does well to represent his own ideas. There is no more to tie into it. There is no more to look into it.

Wright isn't trying to screw anyone. He clearly loves the limelight and is willing to go to great lengths to stay in it. He speaks well to the masses. He is happy to be embroiled in this. I don't get why we have to look at them as one entity rather then two individuals each with his own agenda.

[ringworm]

while i agree wright is just making a scene, for scenes sake

what if he is addressing the many blacks who think obama isnt black enough? by hammering these radical statements around, maybe they are trying to herd black voters to the polls by saying, see, he is black after all, he hates whitey :)

[Hababi]

on the plus side it was great to see Obama finally lay the smack down on Wright. Of course, he probably just opened up a new can of worms on himself.

But I think he spoke out more because he was disrespected--Wright said that Obama was just being a politician.

[Ando!]

serenity who the **** cares

none of the people barack knows or knew make him a less qualified candidate

[Surtr]

No. He really didn't separate himself at all from him. Instead he embraced him, like his poor old granny, who was subjected to character assassination in his speech, and the black community.

Steve, shut the **** up.

----------

Source: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24371827

Obama stated flatly that he doesn't share the views of the man who officiated at his wedding, baptized his two daughters and been his pastor for 20 years. The title of Obama's second book, "The Audacity of Hope," came from a Wright sermon.Lemme' see here, how can I emphasize this..."THAT HE DOESN'T SHARE THE VIEWS..."

"What became clear to me is that he was presenting a world view that contradicts who I am and what I stand for," Obama said. "And what I think particularly angered me was his suggestion somehow that my previous denunciation of his remarks were somehow political posturing. Anybody who knows me and anybody who knows what I'm about knows that I am about trying to bridge gaps and I see the commonality in all people."On Tuesday, Obama sought to distance himself further from Wright.

"I have been a member of Trinity United Church of Christ since 1992, and have known Reverend Wright for 20 years," Obama said. "The person I saw yesterday was not the person that I met 20 years ago." "His comments were not only divisive and destructive, I believe they end up giving comfort to those who prey on hate," Obama said. "I'll be honest with you, I hadn't seen it" when reacting initially on Monday, he said.So next time you want to try and claim that he embraced him, make sure you check some more news. Because there are some important facts out there that your biased little ****ing head can't comprehend.

Now, all that being said...

OBAMA '08

Edit: I go away for like 20 seconds and you guys post all this stuff what the hell now I look like a fool and I'm still typing in giant blue font. lolololol. Steve you're still a nutcase, its just that I'm a giant blue font nutcase now too. Cheers.

[Cain]

lol, steve you're such a douche

[McP3000]

oh come on

don't jump on Serenity like this just because you're butthurt obama fanboys

[JohnXDoe]

Barack is acting like what he is....a politician. not one for change or a "different way" but the same old way

he would have been right to distance himself from Wright on principle the first time around. instead we had to endure a speech about race relations and divisions in the country from whom might be our next president. he defended similar words not too long ago and asked us to understand his pastor and mentor's perspective.

but now because he see's it might hurt him politically he is willing to turn his back on someone he has said he considers a father figure and that he "could not" turn his back on. now he just left him twisting in the wind.

is it a case of "damned if he does and damned if he doesn't" for barack when it comes to denouncing Wright? well, it is now. and its his own damn fault for not doing it in the first place. instead he waited to see how it might play out, and when it started to play out against him he turned.

so much for a "new integrity"

[guitrguy]

Barack is acting like what he is....a politician. not one for change or a "different way" but the same old way

he would have been right to distance himself from Wright on principle the first time around. instead we had to endure a speech about race relations and divisions in the country from whom might be our next president. he defended similar words not too long ago and asked us to understand his pastor and mentor's perspective.

but now because he see's it might hurt him politically he is willing to turn his back on someone he has said he considers a father figure and that he "could not" turn his back on. now he just left him twisting in the wind.

is it a case of "damned if he does and damned if he doesn't" for barack when it come to denouncing Wright? well, it is now. and its his own damn fault for not doing it in the first place. instead he waited to see how it might play out, and when it started to play out against him he turned.

so much for a "new integrity"
why should he? What he espouses has never been similar to wright, and to assume based on association and in the face of evidence is irrational. Maybe he is stepping out because people can't seem to think for themselves.

[Ando!]

yea I thought I sensed some satire in the "I think the American people are smarter than that" line from the abc debate

ughh I watched the abc debate

[Otherside]

Barack is acting like what he is....a politician. not one for change or a "different way" but the same old way

he would have been right to distance himself from Wright on principle the first time around. instead we had to endure a speech about race relations and divisions in the country from whom might be our next president. he defended similar words not too long ago and asked us to understand his pastor and mentor's perspective.

but now because he see's it might hurt him politically he is willing to turn his back on someone he has said he considers a father figure and that he "could not" turn his back on. now he just left him twisting in the wind.

is it a case of "damned if he does and damned if he doesn't" for barack when it comes to denouncing Wright? well, it is now. and its his own damn fault for not doing it in the first place. instead he waited to see how it might play out, and when it started to play out against him he turned.

so much for a "new integrity"

what obama did during that period was relevant to what Wright said, and now his response is relevant once again. Your taking things way out of context.

None of this really matters though, Hillary won't be winning anymore states that count for anything.

[JohnXDoe]

why should he? What he espouses has never been similar to wright, and to assume based on association and in the face of evidence is irrational. Maybe he is stepping out because people can't seem to think for themselves.
or maybe he is stepping out because people can think for themselves. its just he doesn't like what they are thinking. which is "who are you, Barack Obama? and why do you keep company with such people?"

its a reasonable question for a thinking person to ask. especially when the candidate has portrayed himself as a man beyond reproach when it comes to issues of race and divisiveness.

if i were to attend a local Aryan Nations church my friends and neighbors might wonder what i was hearing there and how it affected me. would i simply say 'well in between the hate speech they do good works in the community,' and that would be that? i should tolerate such ideas because of "good works" elsewhere and expect people not to have questions?

'hey, don't make me guilty by association'

you don't have to do anything to be guilty by association. in criminal law something very similar is called "accessory to the crime", i believe? which means you don't actually have to do anything....just be along for the ride.

barack was along for the ride for a little too long with this man and its come back to haunt him. so he'll play politics now. fine...

but questions about who barack obama is and what he'll do as president still persist. and they will throughout the campaign. at the very least he is seeming very slippery, no different then any other candidate

and as such i must say, all things being equal, Hillary Clinton is the best choice for Pres to turn this country around and get us back to something resembling peace and prosperity. Barack and many of his supporters just sound like a broken record from a '60's civil rights rally. why does the country need this?

i really think barack is just the STRONGEST reaction against the last eight years of Bush. he is as liberal as Bush is conservative so seems opposite, but they are really just two sides of the same coin.

i guess the country can live with that....i just hate to think how disappointed all the Obama supporters will be if he takes office and they see just how much of an ordinary politicain he is.

an inexperienced politician. guiding our nation out of war, into new ones, making policy, balancing budgets. this is the job of the President. we all know that. not this "hope and unity" stuff. we have that pretty well in hand, i would say.

we need a good manager. Hill and Bill (yes Bill) and that crew can get the job done, bottom line.

i don't see what Barack has to offer atm. he doesn't even want to debate anymore. even without moderators as Clinton proposed.

i honestly just want the best thing for the country as a whole. and i don't think Barack is it. not in this election, at least.

[Otherside]

There is nothing in Hillary's history that makes me think she is any more suited than Obama. Her history with insurance corporations and her apparent eagerness to be paid off makes me think she is only less so.

[guitrguy]

or maybe he is stepping out because people can think for themselves. its just he doesn't like what they are thinking. which is "who are you, Barack Obama? and why do you keep company with such people?"

its a reasonable question for a thinking person to ask. especially when the candidate has portrayed himself as a man beyond reproach when it comes to issues of race and divisiveness. did you completely ignore the part about him having different views, and has never espoused anything of the nature wright did. Its stupid to think otherwise with that contradiction in ideals.

if i were to attend a local Aryan Nations church my friends and neighbors might wonder what i was hearing there and how it affected me. would i simply say 'well in between the hate speech they do good works in the community,' and that would be that? i should tolerate such ideas because of "good works" elsewhere and expect people not to have questions? except thats an extreme organization not one individual pastor.

'hey, don't make me guilty by association'

you don't have to do anything to be guilty by association. in criminal law something very similar is called "accessory to the crime", i believe? which means you don't actually have to do anything....just be along for the ride.

barack was along for the ride for a little too long with this man and its come back to haunt him. so he'll play politics now. fine...this isn't drug interdiction.

but questions about who barack obama is and what he'll do as president still persist. and they will throughout the campaign. at the very least he is seeming very slippery, no different then any other candidate

this blending of wright into Obama is not that, its spinning who he is.

and as such i must say, all things being equal, Hillary Clinton is the best choice for Pres to turn this country around and get us back to something resembling peace and prosperity. Barack and many of his supporters sound like a broken record from a '60's civil rights rally. why does the country need this?watch an obama speech in its entirety please.

i really think barack is just the STRONGEST reaction against the last eight years of Bush. he is as liberal as Bush is conservative so seems opposite, but they are really just two sides of the same coin. Hes really not that liberal

i guess the country can live with that....i just hate to think how disappointed all the Obama supporters will be if he takes office and they see just how much of an ordinary politicain he is. Not many people expect radical change if he gets in office, unless the opposition uses that a tool to demonize him.

an inexperience politician. guiding our nation out of war, into new ones, making policy, balancing budgets. this is the job of the President. we all know that. not this "hope and unity" stuff. we have that pretty well in hand, i would say. Obama defintely didn't do any urban planning, nor serve in Illinois congress, nor the US Congress

we need a good manager. Hill and Bill (yes Bill) and that crew can get the job done, bottom line.

i don't see what Barack has to offer atm. he doesn't even want to debate anymore. even without moderators as Clinton proposed.Why? The same contrasts will be made as before, nothing new.

i honestly just want the best thing for the country as a whole. and i don't think Barack is it. not in this election, at least.obviously you think that.

[JohnXDoe]

There is nothing in Hillary's history that makes me think she is any more suited than Obama. Her history with insurance corporations and her apparent eagerness to be paid off makes me think she is only less so.
Hillary plays the game, sure. same as Barack will. because the game needs to be played. be it with insurance companies or anyone else. Bill had the same attitude. play the game, get all of what you want, or some of what you want, but get something out of it. and perhaps its not all clean and pure...but it doesn't have to be if it gets results somewhere

Hillary is nothing special, no. none of the candidates are. they are really just ordinary people. but Hillary's "story" is very similar to barack's...if thats why people like him. she was not privilaged, was talented in school, excelled as a lawyer and devoted her life and time BEFORE Bill to public service.

she is a staunch republican turned dem after hearing MLK speak on a college trip, voted one of the top 100 lawyers in the country, and a member of the Senate who has lived in the White House and knows the business as well as her husband. those are pretty sound qualifications. as i've said before, what barack would like to do she already has. a long time ago. and she is very, very sharp. that is apparent. gotta admit....

plus she could bring a woman's touch to politics in Washington. and as President the world. the leader of the free world...a WOMAN. i wonder why THAT doesn't inspire people? they see no "change" in that? that is actually very interesting

we could ask her about her shoes in interviews and who did he new hairdo :)

[Otherside]

I'm all for a woman president, but, and I say this knowing many others feel the same, just not Hillary. She just doesn't come off as trustworthy and feels much more artificial than Obama. John Edwards was an incredibly successful lawyer as well, but that didn't seem to help out much with him, and I fail to see how her presence as first lady contributes to her ability to perform as commander in chief? It's not like she learned some secret from Bill(well i guess she did at one point) that will help her run the country better than Obama.

Also, she just isn't left wing enough for me :\ She's moderate to a fault.

oh and your comparison to 60's civil rights speeches is not only a completely erroneous analogy but also somewhat insulting :/

[guitrguy]

she is a staunch republican turned dem after hearing MLK speak on a college trip, voted one of the top 100 lawyers in the country, and a member of the Senate who has lived in the White House and knows the business as well as her husband. those are pretty sound qualifications. as i've said before, what barack would like to do she already has. a long time ago. and she is very, very sharp. that is apparent. gotta admit....she has only in been the gov't for 7 years, and the virtue of being first wife does not correlate into experience.

plus she could bring a woman's touch to politics in Washington. and as President the world. the leader of the free world...a WOMAN. i wonder why THAT doesn't inspire people? they see no "change" in that? that is actually very interesting
because being a woman means nothing, just like being black means nothing.
we could ask her about her shoes in interviews and who did he new hairdo :)why would we care?

[Otherside]

Oh and I would like someone to explain to me why so many of hillary's "life-long friends and supporters" defect to Obama's side and none of his go the other way :\

[JohnXDoe]

I

Also, she just isn't left wing enough for me :\ She's moderate to a fault.



oh the left...and the right

will you two just kiss and get into bed together where you belong :p

and where you have actually already been...for years....

i love that two sided, radical coin

[Otherside]

oic



this post contains just as much content as yours

[guitrguy]

oh the left...and the right

will you two just kiss and get into bed together where you belong :p

and where you have actually already been...for years....

i love that two sided, radical coin

there really isn't much separation between democrats and republicans, other than social platforms.

[JohnXDoe]

Oh and I would like someone to explain to me why so many of hillary's "life-long friends and supporters" defect to Obama's side and none of his go the other way :\
oh thats just the black guys and the mexican governor with an american name from N.M. who wants to be vice pres

pay them no mind

[JohnXDoe]

there really isn't much separation between democrats and republicans, other than social platforms.
yeah i no i find it very amusing. but i am a status quo kinda guy...so status quo i go. with the dems....

and i'm getting to your posts, dude. just a little busy atm. i'll see if its worth a reply :p

[JohnXDoe]

rep for everyone itt for good political discussion.

even for already taken who i neg'd into red bars not too long ago

i still feel bad about that

i am a ruthless dem :angry:

[guitrguy]

yeah i no i find it very amusing. but i am a status quo kinda guy...so status quo i go. with the dems....

and i'm getting to your posts, dude. just a little busy atm. i'll see if its worth a reply :p

I'm about to go to bed, so I'll get to your reply in the morning.

[Hababi]

rep for everyone itt for good political discussion.


Me??????? :o :wave:

[BassRevelation1029]

I don't understand how one can judge another (obama) by his pastor and spiritual advisor, but not judge the one they support. You've dodged every remark that brought up John Hagee, who constantly says statements that are controversial. You also failed to note the story of Rod Parsley, McCain's spiritual advisor, telling Christians to 'wage a war against and destroy Islam.'

If McCain did not have the ties he did to the press, his uneducated comments about foreign policy, as well as his controversial spiritual advisors, would have taken him down a long time ago. Now its up to his uneducated supporters* to do their research.

*No, I do not mean all mcCain supporters are uneducated

[Ando!]

there really isn't much separation between democrats and republicans, other than social platforms.

uhh McCain's economic plan is terrible

[Hababi]

I don't understand how one can judge another (obama) by his pastor and spiritual advisor, but not judge the one they support.

Close, personal relationship for 20 years, as a teacher-student setup, vs receiving an endorsement on the campaign, not knowing a whole lot about the guy making an endorsement beyond that he was a noted evangelical.


You've dodged every remark that brought up John Hagee, who constantly says statements that are controversial. You also failed to note the story of Rod Parsley, McCain's spiritual advisor, telling Christians to 'wage a war against and destroy Islam.'


McCain called him a "spiritual guide" which isn't near the same thing, and you're comparing one statement which was made in a religious context, in a spiritual manner, with Wright's long string of racist, bigoted, and conspiratorial preachings.

[guitrguy]

uhh McCain's economic plan is terrible

I meant the parties in general

[Smokey D]

Even though Obama has repeatedly said he looks to Wright as a spiritual adviser not anything else and that Wright's comments were made in the context of a sermon while preaching about divine retribution and righteous anger.

Doublethink for the lose Steve.

[Hababi]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0n16tLzsAI

"The guy who puts up with me, counsels me, listens to my wife complain about me... He's a friend and a great leader, not just in Chicago but all across the country..."

[guitrguy]

I think you have a fetish with this. Its not hard to find a youtube video saying something you want it to say.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=QOdlnzkeoyQ

[Hababi]

I think you have a fetish with this. Its not hard to find a youtube video saying something you want it to say.


The point is that Obama and Wright were closer than Obama is letting on.

[guitrguy]

So what? they aren't the same person, and Obama has never espoused any view that falls in line with the original out of context sound bite. How do you now he's not playing up the relationship because Wright may be more involved with Hampton University than Obama?

I do have friends that have conspiracy views, but the virtue of me being friends with them does not mean anything other than friends that support a conspiracy. If a consistently espouse a contradictory view, and some still tries to draw my friends' views as mine, then they purposely are trying to create spin, or they are flat out stupid.

[EinzingerIsGod]

Heres the difference between Obama/Wright and McCain/Hagee...

Obama has his own views and feels that those of his pastor are therefore irrelevant and rightfully so. Anyone who has gone to church doesn't agree 100% with their priest/pastor/rabbi/etc (I hope anyway). Obama didn't bring up this whole issue, it was dug up in the midst of a tight campaign. He tried to play it off for a while by saying the quotes were taken out of context. Now that Wright has come out to enjoy his 15 mins. by reaffirming the lines that were taken out of context, Obama has to distance himself. I think he was genuine yesterday when doing so.

Now for McCain. McCain had the reputation of being an almost godless Republican within the evangelical community after comments he made about religion a few years back. McCain knows that in order for a Republican to win the office he will need a strong showing by the Bible Belt come election day. So he went out pastor shopping so to speak. He could have picked anyone, and he picked Hagee. The man who said New Orleans was punished for being a city of sin when Katrina hit.

For all we know Wright was a different person 20 years ago when Obama met him. Yes, some of his claims are insane, but some of what he says is just a reflection of what millions of people think every day in this country.

To me it is much more damning that McCain went looking for a pastor and settled on Hagee.

[YDtoad]

So what?

So Obama lied.


they aren't the same person,
[/QUOTE]

No they're just really good friends, and Wright is just his mentor and adviser.



and Obama has never espoused any view that falls in line with the original out of context sound bite.

His wife has, and he took his children to hear them. And who knows, maybe Wright will have some anecdotes about Barry Obama in private saying some stuff that he never said in public...



I do have friends that have conspiracy views, but the virtue of me being friends with them does not mean anything other than friends that support a conspiracy. If a consistently espouse a contradictory view, and some still tries to draw my friends' views as mine, then they purposely are trying to create spin, or they are flat out stupid.

Close, personal friends? Advisers? Role models? Did your spiritual adviser tell you that whites invented AIDS to murder blacks?



For all we know Wright was a different person 20 years ago when Obama met him.

Nope. Read Obama's book. It's perfectly clear that Wright has always been a radical racist anti-American lunatic.



Yes, some of his claims are insane, but some of what he says is just a reflection of what millions of people think every day in this country.

Not really, and even if that were the case, so what? There are people that think that black people are inferior to white people. They are insane. If John McCain had David Duke as an adviser, but said that he only listened to the other stuff, he would still get nowhere near the presidency. Because David Duke is insane. And so is Jeremiah Wright.


Now for McCain. McCain had the reputation of being an almost godless Republican within the evangelical community after comments he made about religion a few years back.


He didn't make comments about religion, only people like Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell. McCain's Christianity is a private Christianity, much like it is for many career military people.


Anyone who has gone to church doesn't agree 100% with their priest/pastor/rabbi/etc (I hope anyway).

Not anything insane like "Govt created the AIDS to kill blacks!"

I'd walk out of such a church. You would too. Barry Obama chose not to. He chose to make that ranting lunatic his personal adviser and role model to his children.


Now that Wright has come out to enjoy his 15 mins. by reaffirming the lines that were taken out of context,


No see he was showing that they were not taken out of context. This is what he believes.

[Otherside]

Please explain to me how Wright is worse than Hagee.

[DBoons Ghost]

As Steve well knows, the comments Wright made were made well after his family were members of Wright's church. None of them were present in the church when Wright made those comments. The sermons that the news got a hold of are from 2001, when Obama was not an attending member of the church. I will not repeat this again, because stupid people draw stupid conclusions. Steve is simply doing FOX news' work here on this forum. I have no choice but to ignore him here on out. People like Steve are out there, and this is what they cling to as well. It's sad and shameful to drop this at Obama's feet as if he is guilty of something by association.

It's absurd. However, the opposition must cling to this as it's all they have to fuel negativity in Obama's direction.

Steve will ignore all anyone is saying to the contrary and repeat the spewage he has been spewing since this story broke. There is no logic or reason, only agenda spread at any and all costs to keep a nigga out of the White House.

[guitrguy]

SHUT THE **** UP ABOUT THIS STEVE

YOU ARE EITHER STUPID, OR WILLING TO APPEAR STUPID JUST SO YOU CAN TRY TO UNJUSTLY DEMONIZE OBAMA. EITHER WAY YOU ARE CONVINCING NO ONE AND LOSING MORE CREDIBILITY WITH EACH POST.

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watch the god damn sermon in context.

[YDtoad]

Please explain to me how Wright is worse than Hagee.

1) Haggee was expressing religious views, not political and racial views.

2) Haggee had no relationship with John McCain. So again, please stop comparing this to Obama's close 20 year bond with the ranting racist lunatic.


As Steve well knows, the comments Wright made were made well after his family were members of Wright's church.

Those specific ones? Yeah, but thhose were just the ones that his church collected to release for the "Best of ranting racist lunatic Jeremiah Wright."

Obama knew full well that the church had a radical reputation, he even says so in his book. So don't try to sell me on some magical transformation line. Wright always has been a radical racist hatemonger. That's why he took a little trip with Louis Farakhan. That's why he joined Farakhan in his million moron march. Because Wright is the Christian version of Farakhan and always has been.

Don't believe me? Try to get the cult errr I mean church to release earlier videos. This is a pattern. These are his views. This is his ideaology.




None of them were present in the church when Wright made those comments.

That can neither be proven nor disproven. If you honestly think that Obama wasn't aware of those specific comments then you are fooling yourself. That type of thing goes through the grapevine rather fast.

But let's even say he didn't attend on those specific days. Did he ever attend? Wright's ideaology is one of hatred. This was as regular part of his speeches. Obama knew this, and you can't reasonably argue otherwise.



The sermons that the news got a hold of are from 2001, when Obama was not an attending member of the church.

They span several years, not just 2001. His 9/11 comment was in 2001.

Again, Obama undermines Obama. "The guy who puts up with me, counsels me, listens to my wife complain about me... He's a friend and a great leader, not just in Chicago but all across the country..."

Yes, they had a close relationship that went well beyond merely being a sometimes-church goer who magically avoids attending every excerpted sermon.

Did you stop to think that what Wright said at those speeches was no different than what he said in the excerpts? He was just confirming everything. Yet suddenly Barrack was :eek: OFFENDED at what was said. Well it was nothing new.

He just knew that it was not politically viable for him to continue spinning his wheels about it. So he is pursuing a new line of defense, which contradicts the old one.

But I will give Obama credit for avoiding pandering on the gas tax issue.


watch the god damn sermon in context.


Stop trying to contextualize racism and hatred.

[DBoons Ghost]

I have lost all respect for you.

All your accounts will now after 7 years as a member of this site be the first to grace my ignore list.

[YDtoad]

I have lost all respect for you.

All your accounts will now after 7 years as a member of this site be the first to grace my ignore list.

Now I'll have to get new alts :(

But you seem to have missed the point where I gave Barrack cred for the gas tax issue.

[guitrguy]

wtf? hagee's comments were retarded and unintelligent. According to your logic how does that not make McCain a blabbering evangelical retard?

Now I'll have to get new alts :(

But you seem to have missed the point where I gave Barrack cred for the gas tax issue.
is that supposed to make it seem like your being objective about Obama and reverend wright.

[YDtoad]

According to your logic how does that not make McCain a blabbering evangelical retard?

Ummm because there is no relationship there. Haggee just gave an endorsement.

James Meeks endorsed Obama. James Meeks said that "the hollywood Jew gave us Brokeback Mountain."

Tony Rezko endorsed Obama. Tony Rezko is a slimey real estate con man.

Bill Ayers endorsed Barrack Obama. Bill Ayers is a terrorist.

Hamas endorsed Barrack Obama.

[BassRevelation1029]

Close, personal relationship for 20 years, as a teacher-student setup, vs receiving an endorsement on the campaign, not knowing a whole lot about the guy making an endorsement beyond that he was a noted evangelical.

so if Obama was not a close friend of Farrakahn, but received an endorsement, would you still have a problem?

The obvious answer is yes, and please don't deny it.


McCain called him a "spiritual guide" which isn't near the same thing
It makes all the difference, doesn't it?

I'm not trying to defend Obama. I'm just trying to rationalize an attack on one person and not the other on the same issue.

, and you're comparing one statement which was made in a religious context, in a spiritual manner, with Wright's long string of racist, bigoted, and conspiratorial preachings.
oh there are plenty of statements. I used to watch the man's program for goodness' sake. Hagee isn't as controversial as people think, but Parsley would have something to say every time.

and speak about context..as if a 15 second fox news blip shows the entire story right?

[YDtoad]

so if Obama was not a close friend of Farrakahn, but received an endorsement, would you still have a problem?

Nope. I can readily find a list of overtly bad people who endorsed Obama. An endorsement doesn't matter to me. A long term relationship does.

[guitrguy]

Ummm because there is no relationship there. Haggee just gave an endorsement.

James Meeks endorsed Obama. James Meeks said that "the hollywood Jew gave us Brokeback Mountain."

Tony Rezko endorsed Obama. Tony Rezko is a slimey real estate con man.

Bill Ayers endorsed Barrack Obama. Bill Ayers is a terrorist.

Hamas endorsed Barrack Obama.

I know you're not stupid. I just have ask why are you acting like these endorsements represent Obama? Why do you think Wright, friend or not, speaks for Obama? Obama has never espoused any view that your trying to say he holds. You conveniently ignore this just to so you can paint Obama as some evil person.

[BassRevelation1029]

He was pointing out Serenity's poor logic if i'm not mistaken.

who knows I very well could be.

[YDtoad]

I know you're not stupid. I jsut have ask why are you acting like these endorsement represent Obama. Why you think Wright, friend or not, speak for Obama. Obama has never espoused any view that your trying to say he holds.

See but I'm not. The fact that Louis Farakhan and Hamas basically endorsed Obama doesn't matter.

The fact that he actualy has a relationship with the hugely homophobic and anti-Jewish Meeks, and a close long term bond with Jeremiah Wright, on the other hand....


You conveniently ignore this just to so you can paint Obama as some evil person.


I don't think he's evil. Just a sham politician with leftist sympathies and a soft spot for racist hatemongers. Which btw roots back to his identity crisis and anger at his parents.

[Iskandar]

Hitler endorsed Obama through a six-decade time warp found in the broom closet of the Führerbunker.

[guitrguy]

Nope. I can readily find a list of overtly bad people who endorsed Obama. An endorsement doesn't matter to me. A long term relationship does.

hey look I can dig dirt up on a politician too:

There are so many reasons John McCain should not be President. But an interaction with a reporter today on his Not-So-Straight Talk bus pretty much confirmed it.

McCain was stumped by a very simple question -- a question that can be answered with a modicum of research. He was stumped by a question that can mean the difference between life and death. He was stumped by a question that every responsible adult in American should know the answer to. He doesn't know if condoms can help stop the spread of HIV. Seriously:

Q: “What about grants for sex education in the United States? Should they include instructions about using contraceptives? Or should it be Bush’s policy, which is just abstinence?”

Mr. McCain: (Long pause) “Ahhh. I think I support the president’s policy.”

Q: “So no contraception, no counseling on contraception. Just abstinence. Do you think contraceptives help stop the spread of HIV?”

Mr. McCain: (Long pause) “You’ve stumped me.”

Q: “I mean, I think you’d probably agree it probably does help stop it?”

Mr. McCain: (Laughs) “Are we on the Straight Talk express? I’m not informed enough on it. Let me find out. You know, I’m sure I’ve taken a position on it on the past. I have to find out what my position was. Brian, would you find out what my position is on contraception – I’m sure I’m opposed to government spending on it, I’m sure I support the president’s policies on it.”

Q: “But you would agree that condoms do stop the spread of sexually transmitted diseases. Would you say: ‘No, we’re not going to distribute them,’ knowing that?”

Mr. McCain: (Twelve-second pause) “Get me Coburn’s thing, ask Weaver to get me Coburn’s paper that he just gave me in the last couple of days. I’ve never gotten into these issues before.”

Could John McCain be this much of an idiot? Could he be so stupid about basic health policy? Could he be so beholden to the theocrats that he wouldn't answer such an obvious question?

Whatever the answer, John McCain shouldn't be President.

http://www.americablog.com/2007/03/mccain-doesnt-know-if-condoms-help-stop.html

[guitrguy]

The fact that he actualy has a relationship with the hugely homophobic and anti-Jewish Meeks, and a close long term bond with Jeremiah Wright, on the other hand....

Hagee is a homophobe and a zionist, whats you're point?

I don't think he's evil. Just a sham politician with leftist sympathies and a soft spot for racist hatemongers. Which btw roots back to his identity crisis and anger at his parents.you're an idiot

[EinzingerIsGod]

Ummm because there is no relationship there. Haggee just gave an endorsement.

James Meeks endorsed Obama. James Meeks said that "the hollywood Jew gave us Brokeback Mountain."

Tony Rezko endorsed Obama. Tony Rezko is a slimey real estate con man.

Bill Ayers endorsed Barrack Obama. Bill Ayers is a terrorist.

Hamas endorsed Barrack Obama.

What did Obama say about their endorsement? I'm an anarchist and I endorse Obama. So Obama is sympathetic to anarchism?

[guitrguy]

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/02/28/hagee/

oh look Hagee thinks islam programs people to kill, so must McCain!

[JohnXDoe]

well i must say after watching the full tape again of Barack distancing himself from Wright i feel bad for the guy. you can tell when the wind is out of him. same as in the debates when he was taking on the personal questions. he gets slumped and slow....saddened, even

it must not have been easy for him, but i'm glad he did it. and i'm glad he did it because Wright misrepresented him. its as if barack felt enough respect for the man to let him have his own beliefs and even defended some of those beliefs because of where they are rooted. but once his pastor suggested Barack wasn't genuine and only playing politics denouncing those views, Barack stepped in. and i think that shows some character. and afterward Barack was at a rally sounding downright patriotic.

their is nothing wrong with that and Barack should know it. perhaps he has a little to learn from all this as well as others do. i just hope its not too late for him to learn it to beat McCain in November

for all my reservations about Barack i am still a dem and want to vote with my party in November. if barack gets the nod i suppose i will have things to consider before casting my vote for him. my trouble with him is largely not this Wright thing or anything like it (although politically damaging). its just the fact i think he is young, naive, and runs the risk of being the next Jimmy Carter. what happened after Carter? 12 straight years of republicans, thats what. we just had eight, four more would equal that if McCain wins

which means by the end of his first term the republicans would have held the presidency for 24 out of the last 32 years

fuc.k that someone get Obama a flag pin :(

[DBoons Ghost]

Hillary won't do any better John. She is a rookie all the same, and is a pandering whore who merely wants to go down in history as the first female President. You have to choose the lesser evil here. She has no more experience then Barack. Her husband was President for 8 years, not her. She is plagued by scandal as well and in the end she is no different then Obama. Take Bill Clinton out of the equation and what do you have?

As it stands, it's unlikely McCain can be beaten by either of them, and that's a reality we all have to face. All the die hard Dems I know have already begun to try and find sense in McCain's words as the democratic party continues to disgrace itself. Hillary is full of crap as anyone with a brain can tell, and she's failing in her words even if the polls don't show it. Barack can't seem to escape his associations, so you might have to take a long hard look here.

[Hababi]

Will you people get it through your heads that receiving an endorsement is not the same as a 20 year relationship? :rolleyes:

FOR THEIR ENTIRE LIVES, BARRACK OBAMA TOOK HIS CHILDREN TO A CHURCH WHERE THE PASTOR SAID THAT "WHITE AMERICA" INVENTED AIDS TO MURDER BLACKS.

That is not equatable with receiving an endorsement and stop pretending that it is.

[thedeadwalk!]

Barrack just said recently the man he met 20 years ago is not the one parading around today.

[Smokey D]

He called him a spiritual adviser too.

I don't think the situations are the same but you do yourself a disservice by denying that they are comparable situations.

[Hababi]

Barrack just said recently the man he met 20 years ago is not the one parading around today.

Unfortunately his books, as well as Wright's recollections, disprove that silly notion.

He called him a spiritual adviser too.

He also subsequently vetted him, clearly condemned his statements, and said that it was a mistake to have accepted his endorsement in Texas.

Haggee and McCain have no long term relationship. It was a short term thing.

And, what Haggee says is nowhere near as damaging as what Wright says.

[Smokey D]

Substitute Muslims for white people and Hurricane Katrina for September 11 and he's pretty close.

Obama's pretty clearly condemmed Wright now. Not that it really matters because it's pretty clear Obama never thought like Wright. Just as I don't think like McCain thinks like Hagee.

[Hababi]

Substitute Muslims for white people and Hurricane Katrina for September 11 and he's pretty close.

I'm not saying that what he said wasn't stupid; by all means it was. But in terms of societal harm, you're comparing a few stupid notions with perpetuating and deepening a racial divide.


Obama's pretty clearly condemmed Wright now. Not that it really matters because it's pretty clear Obama never thought like Wright. Just as I don't think like McCain thinks like Hagee.

But as soon as McCain realized that Haggee was a bit loopy, he distanced himself from him. Obama knew he was nutty all along, and even though I think it's likely that Obama shares few of Wright's more ridiculous notions, he sought him out, stuck by him, and put his children under his influence. He only took a stronger stand when Wright basically turned on him.

[Smokey D]

I'm not saying that what he said wasn't stupid; by all means it was. But in terms of societal harm, you're comparing a few stupid notions with perpetuating and deepening a racial divide.

Given that you are at with a reasonably large portion of the Muslim world, I think it's a pretty shocking thing to say let alone fudge off as unimportant.

But as soon as McCain realized that Haggee was a bit loopy, he distanced himself from him. Obama knew he was nutty all along, and even though I think it's likely that Obama shares few of Wright's more ridiculous notions, he sought him out, stuck by him, and put his children under his influence. He only took a stronger stand when Wright basically turned on him.

I really think your speculation about their relationship and what Obama thinks is unfounded. Drawing on every relevant document, we can't see the racial influence of Wright's thinking in Obama's behavior. Maybe in his left-wing liberalism but that's hardly unique.

[BassRevelation1029]

I'm not saying that what he said wasn't stupid; by all means it was. But in terms of societal harm, you're comparing a few stupid notions with perpetuating and deepening a racial divide.

As compared with a deepening religious tension?

You didn't answer my question. I asked if you would have a problem with senator obama accepting the endorsement of Farrakahn.

[Hababi]

Given that you are at with a reasonably large portion of the Muslim world, I think it's a pretty shocking thing to say let alone fudge off as unimportant.

I wouldn't say that it's unimportant but McCain didn't realize those were his views. McCain has been much better with handling nuts and offensive behavior than Obama. When a radio host used Obama's middle name to spur fear during a McCain rally, McCain directly condemned it at that very event. Obama's behavior when his associates behave badly? A tepid little press release.



I really think your speculation about their relationship and what Obama thinks is unfounded. Drawing on every relevant document, we can't see the racial influence of Wright's thinking in Obama's behavior. Maybe in his left-wing liberalism but that's hardly unique.

But I'm not really speculating about what Obama thinks. On the contrary, I find it incredibly hard to believe that Obama secretly thinks that whites invented AIDS to kill blacks, or that the US is on the same moral ground as Al Queda.

That being said, Obama legitimized such preposterous ideology by attending that church for 20 years and taking his children to it, and by having the man as his close role model.

You have to ask why, in the beginning, he joined the church. In Dreams From My Father, he reveals that he knew the church had a radical reputation. He sought it out and joined it anyway.

Why? Two reasons:
1) Obama needed street cred with the black community, who were skeptical of this lighter skinned Harvard guy.
2) He saw in Wright another light-skinned, upper middle class, educated and privileged black leader.

Obama found it appropriate to belong to a racist church, led by a racist hatemonger. By merely doing so, he has hurt race relations in America.

[Hababi]

You didn't answer my question. I asked if you would have a problem with senator obama accepting the endorsement of Farrakahn.

I thought you said receiving the endorsement. He can't help who endorses him. He can help who he has as a close adviser, mentor, and friend.

[BassRevelation1029]

I thought you said receiving the endorsement. He can't help who endorses him. He can help who he has as a close adviser, mentor, and friend.

once again you fail to answer the question.

If obama received/welcomed/accepted the endorsement of farrakahn, we would see another thread from you right now. You're only downplaying the acceptance of an endorsement because it contradicts your silly argument.

[Smokey D]

I wouldn't say that it's unimportant but McCain didn't realize those were his views. McCain has been much better with handling nuts and offensive behavior than Obama. When a radio host used Obama's middle name to spur fear during a McCain rally, McCain directly condemned it at that very event. Obama's behavior when his associates behave badly? A tepid little press release.

Don't change the subject.

The thing is you have said Obama's choice as a spiritual adviser colours who he is but that McCain's choice for the same does not. It's doublethink.


But I'm not really speculating about what Obama thinks. On the contrary, I find it incredibly hard to believe that Obama secretly thinks that whites invented AIDS to kill blacks, or that the US is on the same moral ground as Al Queda.

That being said, Obama legitimized such preposterous ideology by attending that church for 20 years and taking his children to it, and by having the man as his close role model.

He hasn't legitimised it. He renounced it.

You have to ask why, in the beginning, he joined the church. In Dreams From My Father, he reveals that he knew the church had a radical reputation. He sought it out and joined it anyway.

Why do people join the Catholic church despite knowing its history, it's extremely conservative positions etc?

Why? Two reasons:
1) Obama needed street cred with the black community, who were skeptical of this lighter skinned Harvard guy.
2) He saw in Wright another light-skinned, upper middle class, educated and privileged black leader.

I doubt it.

Obama found it appropriate to belong to a racist church, led by a racist hatemonger. By merely doing so, he has hurt race relations in America.

No he hasn't.

[Hababi]

once again you fail to answer the question.

If obama received/welcomed/accepted the endorsement of farrakahn, we would see another thread from you right now. You're only downplaying the acceptance of an endorsement because it contradicts your silly argument.

Because everyone knows full well what Farakhan is about. McCain only knew that Haggee was a prominent preacher; he didn't know that he'd said some loopy anti-Catholic stuff.

[BassRevelation1029]

Because everyone knows full well what Farakhan is about. McCain only knew that Haggee was a prominent preacher; he didn't know that he'd said some loopy anti-Catholic stuff.

Everyone else knows. You know, except for people who rely on the mainstream media.

Hagee is the least of my worries. Its Parsley as his spiritual guide that worries me.

[Hababi]

The thing is you have said Obama's choice as a spiritual adviser colours who he is but that McCain's choice for the same does not. It's doublethink.

Because Haggee isn't McCain's spiritual adviser. He said a few nice things about him at the time, but in the most recent interview he did addressing it, he said that it was a mistake to accept the endorsement and repeatedly called Haggee's statements ridiculous.




He hasn't legitimised it. He renounced it.

After seeking it out and then defending it and contextualizing it in his Throw-Grammy-Under-The-Train speech.

Wright said nothing new in those speeches and Q&A sessions, in terms of his theology/politics. Everything he said only reiterated what we heard in those famous excerpts. So why the sudden change in Obama's reaction to them?




Why do people join the Catholic church despite knowing its history, it's extremely conservative positions etc?

People tend to agree with its positions :p

The Catholic church stands for democracy and human rights in the world. Jeremiah Wright stands for racism, hatred, and exploitation.



I doubt it.

Ok then why'd he join a church that he knew was radical?



No he hasn't.

So Obama can claim to be post-racial while his close friend, mentor, and adviser was a racist clown?

[Hababi]

Everyone else knows. You know, except for people who rely on the mainstream media.

I knew nothing about Haggee before the whole campaign in Texas. And McCain doesn't care one bit about televangelists, so it's pretty unreasonable to think that he knew all of Haggee's views.


Hagee is the least of my worries. Its Parsley as his spiritual guide that worries me.

McCain first met Parsley on February 26th. There is no significant relationship.

[Smokey D]

Because Haggee isn't McCain's spiritual adviser. He said a few nice things about him at the time, but in the most recent interview he did addressing it, he said that it was a mistake to accept the endorsement and repeatedly called Haggee's statements ridiculous.

"On April 20, 2008, while appearing on This Week with George Stephanopoulos, and after criticizing Barack Obama's repudiation of Bill Ayers, McCain said that it was "probably a mistake" to court and accept Hagee's endorsement, although he's still glad to have it"

After seeking it out and then defending it and contextualizing it in his Throw-Grammy-Under-The-Train speech.


If you think the speech was harmful to race relations, quit life now.

Wright said nothing new in those speeches and Q&A sessions, in terms of his theology/politics. Everything he said only reiterated what we heard in those famous excerpts. So why the sudden change in Obama's reaction to them?

We both know the reason. But it doesn't actually mean much since Obama himself never believed it.

People tend to agree with its positions

Not really. There are millions of liberal Catholics in the world.

The Catholic church stands for democracy and human rights in the world. Jeremiah Wright stands for racism, hatred, and exploitation.


There are thousands of racist, deceitful and exploitative priests in the Church.

Ok then why'd he join a church that he knew was radical?



He probably appreciated some of the message. Especially the liberation stuff. But not necessarily the whitey is the devil stuff.

So Obama can claim to be post-racial while his close friend, mentor, and adviser was a racist clown? ]

By not being a racist himself you clown. Do you think exactly like all your friends?

[Eliminator]

aww steve is so cute ^_^

[BassRevelation1029]

I knew nothing about Haggee before the whole campaign in Texas. And McCain doesn't care one bit about televangelists, so it's pretty unreasonable to think that he knew all of Haggee's views.
and as I've said, I and many others have been watching him for years.

Obama is pleading ignorance over Wright's comments but you wont give him the benefit of the doubt.

McCain first met Parsley on February 26th. There is no significant relationship.
The title 'Spiritual guide' suggests a relationship to me.

By not being a racist himself you clown. Do you think exactly like all your friends?
:lol:

[Hababi]

"On April 20, 2008, while appearing on This Week with George Stephanopoulos, and after criticizing Barack Obama's repudiation of Bill Ayers, McCain said that it was "probably a mistake" to court and accept Hagee's endorsement, although he's still glad to have it"

Well of course he's glad to have it, as it helped push him over the edge in TX :p I think that was a case of McCain being very honest.



If you think the speech was harmful to race relations, quit life now.

The speech, overall? Probably not. The notion of excusing and contextualizing racist garbage? Absolutely. That allows it to go on.



We both know the reason. But it doesn't actually mean much since Obama himself never believed it.

It means that Obama's being dishonest.



Not really. There are millions of liberal Catholics in the world.


And there's absolutely no equating being pro-life with believing that 'white America' wants to annihilate people of color.


There are thousands of racist, deceitful and exploitative priests in the Church.

Considering the size of the church, of course there are going to be bad apples. But that doesn't represent the core. Jeremiah Wright, on the other hand, was the core, and his ideology still is the core of a church that bears a striking resemblance to Westboro Baptist Church.



He probably appreciated some of the message. Especially the liberation stuff. But not necessarily the whitey is the devil stuff.


Ok so imagine if a politician was a member of a prediminantly white church that spent much of its time helping the poor, running soup kitchens, etc. and whose pastor said, "Blacks are inferior and prone to violence."

It would be expected that no person aspiring to public office would stay in such a church. It's time you hold Obama to the same standard.


By not being a racist himself you clown. Do you think exactly like all your friends?

I would never have a racist fool as my close personal adviser and mentor. Would you?

[Hababi]

Obama is pleading ignorance over Wright's comments but you wont give him the benefit of the doubt.

Ummmmmm because Obama was a member of the church and a close friend. He was a protege of Wright. Now, if McCain was a member of Haggee's church, if there was a 20 years relationship there, or you know, any relationship there, then you could make that case. But you can't because there isn't.



The title 'Spiritual guide' suggests a relationship to me.


Yeah but the facts disprove it. McCain was basically kissing up to a few preachers to win over the religious right. It's something he later regretted and moved away from. There is not a real relationship there; that much is objectively obvious.

Have you read Dreams from my Father? Obama and Wright have been tight for a loooooooooooooooooooooooong time.

[Smokey D]

Well of course he's glad to have it, as it helped push him over the edge in TX :p I think that was a case of McCain being very honest.

So once again you are disingenuous and doublethinking.

If Obama said he was glad to receive Wright's support, what would you say?

The speech, overall? Probably not. The notion of excusing and contextualizing racist garbage? Absolutely. That allows it to go on.

Well it didn't do that.

It means that Obama's being dishonest.

No.

And there's absolutely no equating being pro-life with believing that 'white America' wants to annihilate people of color.


People who don't agree with the Church's positions on everything join the Church because they agree with it on some things. Oh yeah, that's right.

Considering the size of the church, of course there are going to be bad apples. But that doesn't represent the core. Jeremiah Wright, on the other hand, was the core, and his ideology still is the core of a church that bears a striking resemblance to Westboro Baptist Church.

Not really.

Your ridiculous hyperbole is one of the reason people get annoyed with you Steve. Your complete and utter lack of ability to contexualise and find appropriate comparisons.

Clearly you must be able to do this in your academic work because you get good marks. Why be an idiot here?

Ok so imagine if a politician was a member of a prediminantly white church that spent much of its time helping the poor, running soup kitchens, etc. and whose pastor said, "Blacks are inferior and prone to violence."

I wouldn't impute the views of the Church on the politician.

It would be expected that no person aspiring to public office would stay in such a church. It's time you hold Obama to the same standard.

He quit the church years ago...

I would never have a racist fool as my close personal adviser and mentor. Would you?

Personally I don't but I can see how you can make friends with people you don't agree with/. Especially if both of our positions diverged over time.

[Hababi]

So once again you are disingenuous and doublethinking.

If Obama said he was glad to receive Wright's support, what would you say?

You're still trying to equate the two, and I just don't see it.

McCain unequivally condemned Haggee's statements. Barrack Obama contextualized Wright's.



Well it didn't do that.


Wait now how didn't it? The whole point was "Well you have to understand where he comes from and hey my grandma's racist too and Wright's kinda right so don't judge him because I can't disown him."


No.

Feel free to explain why.



People who don't agree with the Church's positions on everything join the Church because they agree with it on some things. Oh yeah, that's right.

You're equating disagreeing on anything, which is absurd. I may disagree with a church's stance on which day to have the Sabbath. Do you not see the grossly unequal weight that disagreement would have compared to a racist, supremacist, separatist church?



Not really.

Your ridiculous hyperbole is one of the reason people get annoyed with you Steve. Your complete and utter lack of ability to contexualise and find appropriate comparisons.

"USofKKKA"
"Govt created AIDS to kill black people"
*comparing US Marines to Romans who killed Jesus
*saying the US and Al Queada are doing the same thing in different uniforms
*Praising Louis Farakhan
*Equating Zionism with racism

The list goes on and on. This is not hyperbole. There is no contextualizing that excuses this.



I wouldn't impute the views of the Church on the politician.

I'm not.


He quit the church years ago...

Jeremiah Wright was a paid member of an advisory board of Obama's till after the excerpts broke.



Personally I don't but I can see how you can make friends with people you don't agree with/. Especially if both of our positions diverged over time.

I couldn't be friends with a neo-Nazi. I couldn't be friends with a Stalinist. And I couldn't be friends with a racist black supremacist clown.

But even above that, friends is different than spiritual advisor and mentor. They were not merely friends. Wright was a father figure to Obama, one that Obama sought out and built up a relationship with over two decades. Obama had this vulgar nut baptize his children, and took them to hear his insane rantings.

So, your contextualizing is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy off.

[Charlie Daniels]

I think Steve makes very fair and valid points.

[Ando!]

Will you people get it through your heads that receiving an endorsement is not the same as a 20 year relationship? :rolleyes:

FOR THEIR ENTIRE LIVES, BARRACK OBAMA TOOK HIS CHILDREN TO A CHURCH WHERE THE PASTOR SAID THAT "WHITE AMERICA" INVENTED AIDS TO MURDER BLACKS.

That is not equatable with receiving an endorsement and stop pretending that it is.

JOHN McCAIN DOESN'T KNOW WHAT A CONDOM IS

[Sunshine]

The Catholic church stands for democracy and human rights in the world.

...you're joking, right?
What Catholic Church have YOU been going to?
All the ones I went to weren't very democratic.

[Hababi]

...you're joking, right?
What Catholic Church have YOU been going to?
All the ones I went to weren't very democratic.

I'm not talking about the structure of the church.

[Smokey D]

You're still trying to equate the two, and I just don't see it.

McCain unequivally condemned Haggee's statements. Barrack Obama contextualized Wright's.

Okay. If Obama said he welcomed Wright's statement, what would you say?

Wait now how didn't it? The whole point was "Well you have to understand where he comes from and hey my grandma's racist too and Wright's kinda right so don't judge him because I can't disown him."

He's perfectly right to say that people are racist and that there's a reason for that fact. He was bold to try and explore it on a medium where it could so easily be misconstrued. But he never said 'racism is okay' or 'I condone Wright's statements' or anything of the sort.

Feel free to explain why.

Because Obama doesn't believe it. He never did.

You're equating disagreeing on anything, which is absurd. I may disagree with a church's stance on which day to have the Sabbath. Do you not see the grossly unequal weight that disagreement would have compared to a racist, supremacist, separatist church?

There are millions of people who disagree with teh Church on substantial social and theological issues like abortion and treatment of gays etc etc who are still in the Church.

"USofKKKA"
"Govt created AIDS to kill black people"
*comparing US Marines to Romans who killed Jesus
*saying the US and Al Queada are doing the same thing in different uniforms
*Praising Louis Farakhan
*Equating Zionism with racism

Yeah but it's not Westboro.

I'm not.

Then Wright should be irrelevant.

Jeremiah Wright was a paid member of an advisory board of Obama's till after the excerpts broke.

He's also been disavowed. But as I say, I suspect Obama agrees with him on some aspects of his social policy especially renumeration to the poor and disenfranchised.

I couldn't be friends with a neo-Nazi. I couldn't be friends with a Stalinist. And I couldn't be friends with a racist black supremacist clown.

It's completely irrelevant who his friends are. It's only relevant whether his friends make him think like them. And all evidence suggests tehy don't.

But even above that, friends is different than spiritual advisor and mentor. They were not merely friends. Wright was a father figure to Obama, one that Obama sought out and built up a relationship with over two decades. Obama had this vulgar nut baptize his children, and took them to hear his insane rantings.

Okay but there's absolutely no evidence that Wright's views on race have had any effect on Obama.

So, your contextualizing is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy off.[/QUOTE]

[Ando!]

I actually watched the video where he got all angry at white people for stealing the country and shitting on indians and blacks and while he went a little overboard most of what he said seemed to be pretty true

I'm not talking about the structure of the church.

I'm catholic, but I wouldn't say that we've historically been a church that promotes decency

maybe in recent times we have been

[big80smullet]

I saw on World news the other night that he said that america brought 9/11 on itself through its foreign policies and that americans were upset at him. Sounds to me like the dude knows his ****.

Also just because obama goes to his church doesnt mean he follows all his ideals. Hell i go to church reasonably frequetly and it doesnt mean i believe the same as my pastor, im not even a christian.

[Sleep]

Ok so imagine if a politician was a member of a prediminantly white church that spent much of its time helping the poor, running soup kitchens, etc. and whose pastor said, "Blacks are inferior and prone to violence."

i love when people do this. its not the same thing at all. 'white power' and 'black power' have completely different meanings.
i'm so disappointed this issue is taken seriously at all. you can go on tv and tell the world gays and muslims need to be wiped out and nobody bats an eye. but if someone says something about white people-- god forbid-- the majority in this country who have actually been the oppressors of other races historically, they get so offended. it's silly, wright is not a scary guy.

[aria]

i dont like blacks so im not goin for that coon

[Det_Nosnip]

Wright is an idiot, but that doesn't change my opinion of Obama.

[JohnXDoe]

I saw on World news the other night that he said that america brought 9/11 on itself through its foreign policies and that americans were upset at him. Sounds to me like the dude knows his ****.

whether Wright says this hogwash or anyone else its just stupid to say. and worse to say the way Wright does, as if he is espousing some big wisdom on the masses.

i'm sick of hearing this "blame america for its own destruction" crap. the people who took down the towers like no one. they live in caves like animals from the dark ages and let some invisible god run their lives. and it won't change because our President has an islamic / arabic sounding name. these people are outcast even in their own countries. OMG the evil Saudi Arabia letting the INFIDELS on their land. they are stupid. thats why they took down the towers. full of civilians with families just like their own.

if they want to say its "an eye for an eye," which is basically what they are saying, fine. we can keep doing that. but they act like WE are the #1 reason for their woes, and its just not true. if Osama Bin Laden (because it was his group who took down the towers and who kill fellow MUSLIMS on their own land) had any sense in his head he would have embraced his wealth and been helping his people in a positive way. but no, he will be a warrior for god and the one true Islam

yup, our foreign policy did that lmao. and even if it didn't (and it didn't) he would still be twisting arms around the world with his bullshi.t

gimme a fuc.kin' break.

some people want a war. maybe even us (United States). we have the big stick...we use it sometimes. but not for the total destruction of other nations. we could do that if we like, can't we? yes we could. other nations throughout history with less power have done so and reaped the rewards, why not us?

if we have it comin', so does everyone else, period. so they may as well not bitch or blame just because they are losing. they are no less or more, better or worse.

brought 9/11 on ourselves. oh wise man....

[Otherside]

You want to talk hypocrisy? How about piously criticizing me for Jeremiah Wright when you have a trail of associations that includes golden oldies like Webb Hubbell? (‘90s flashback: He was one of Hillary Clinton’s legal partners and closest friends, whom she installed in a top Justice Department job before prosecutors sent him to prison.) It also includes modern hits like Frank Giustra. (In case you missed it: There was a January New York Times story, which did not get the attention the reporting deserved, highlighting how this Canadian tycoon and major Bill Clinton benefactor was using his ties to the ex-president to win business with a ruthless dictatorship in Khazakstan.)Obama has never pressed Clinton to talk about Marc Rich, even though the former fugitive financier who won a controversial pardon from Bill Clinton gave money to her first Senate campaign.

He has never mentioned her brothers, even though Hugh and Tony Rodham once defied Bill Clinton’s own top foreign policy advisers by entering into a strange investment in hazelnuts in the former Soviet republic of Georgia (they later dropped the deal) and Hugh Rodham took large cash payments for trying to broker presidential pardons.

Obama is likewise galled to be lectured by Clinton for not being sufficiently committed to universal health coverage. Why is it, his team asks, that Democrats have done so little to advance a long-time progressive goal for the past 15 years? The answer has everything to do with Hillary Clinton’s misjudgments when she was leading the reform effort in 1993 and 1994.

basically my stance regarding the situation

note: obama did not write/say this

[big80smullet]

So if america didnt try to run the middle east and teach them the "decadent ways of the west" you really think osama would be after america? Are al qaeda after india? China? nigeria? these are all massive populations of non muslims yet they werent attacked the US was. Maybe theres a reason for that.

CAUSE AND EFFECT

you mess with them they will mess with you back. Im not saying its right but just denying that a chain of events that is easily historically traceable exists is just plain stupidity. America was where it wasnt wanted so someone got pissed of. You have a big stick but you used it to hit and angry dog who bit back.

yes osama and the like would be doing their thing anyway but the facts are there, clear to see for anyone who hasnt got their head jammed with "america the beautiful" propaganda. As much as youd like to think it your government is not infallible. In fact they have made many many mistakes in the past and these sometimes come back.

Now reverend wright was just saying what is true. he may have worded it wrongly and he may have been very blunt but it is true nonetheless. Also i think the fact that he is being condemned because he stated that he respects the islamic leader in the US, (i forget his name) is downright wrong. He said something like "when that man speaks america listens, what he says may not be right but people still listen" and this was taken to be him siding with muslims.

I think your country is very close minded and simple, despite claiming to be tolerant and i would be ashamed of the way it is if i was a citizen.

[Mr. Ron]

Most of our international problems are totally our fault.


anyways, wright saying the government introducing AIDS to poor communities is crap, but they certainly introduced a lot of drugs, which in the end is far worse than a venereal disease.

[J Rad]

i don't see why anything wright says is at all important

he's not running for president, obama is

and it's not like obama is embracing wright's comments so who cares what he says

[Mr. Ron]

i don't see why anything wright says is at all important

he's not running for president, obama is

and it's not like obama is embracing wright's comments so who cares what he says

hey look common sense ^^^

[big80smullet]

yeah well that should go without saying but some of the claims he makes arent actually controversial.

[Mr. Ron]

Well I'd say the whole aids thing is silly of him to say.

[Sunshine]

i love when people do this. its not the same thing at all. 'white power' and 'black power' have completely different meanings.

Why?
See, everybody's like OMGZ WHY CAN'T WE JUST BE EQUAL.
Well, if everybody wants equality so bad, then white power SHOULD be the same as black power, and any other minority that wants a power group, too.
And men and women, gay and straight.

[NortherlyNanook]

I do believe that Wright is hurting Obama's reputation, but I personally don't think that people need to take his rants and believe that Obama has much to do with them. Wright just seems to have his own agenda, and it's really not helping out.

[Sleep]

Why?
See, everybody's like OMGZ WHY CAN'T WE JUST BE EQUAL.
Well, if everybody wants equality so bad, then white power SHOULD be the same as black power, and any other minority that wants a power group, too.
And men and women, gay and straight.

eliminating minority rights groups isnt going to rid us of inequality.
black power doesnt mean the same thing as white power because of the history behind the two things... it's not like after decades of oppression and injustice you can just legislate equality.

[Sunshine]

It'd be cooler if people actually tried for equality instead of trying for separating themselves with groups.

Because that doesn't make equality. At all. It's kind of the opposite.

[big80smullet]

Well I'd say the whole aids thing is silly of him to say.

well yes i agree he said some silly things but by and large he is right. America is a racist place, disastrous forign policy did cause terrorists to place their sights on america. PC has gone so far that you cant criticise anyone or anything without offending anyone. People should just ****ing man up

http://youtube.com/watch?v=unkIVvjZc9Y
this is what people need to do

[J Rad]

it's not like after decades of oppression and injustice you can just legislate equality.

it's not like getting over it will hurt anything either

the biggest figureheads of the equality movement are the most wealthy and well-treated black people in the country

slavery is over
the civil rights movement is over
living in the past is not going to make equality anymore realistic

[Sunshine]

Thank God somebody else gets it, jeez.
Would've rep'd if I didn't have to spread.

[Mr. Ron]

well yes i agree he said some silly things but by and large he is right. America is a racist place, disastrous forign policy did cause terrorists to place their sights on america. PC has gone so far that you cant criticise anyone or anything without offending anyone. People should just ****ing man up

http://youtube.com/watch?v=unkIVvjZc9Y
this is what people need to do

I disagree on the whole PC thing. Theres no such thing as strictly enforced PC.

[Smokey D]

Do people honestly think there's no issue with race anymore?

[BridgeToSolace]

A lot of racism is just mislabeled classism.

[Smokey D]

Not really since poor black people cop way more crap than equally poor white people.

[ringworm]

Do people honestly think there's no issue with race anymore?

imo, no, maybe the way its usually forced down our throats like we are somehow to blaim, maybe being white has something to do with it, but i think the vast majority (at least in america) feel we are all equal, so lets start acting like it, drop the crutches that will only hold us back, properly identify the reasons why certain classes feel left out or marginalized, instead of just using your skin color

[Sunshine]

Exactly.
A lot of problems [today] are caused by OMFGZ YOU'RE WHITE SO YOUR GREATGREATGREATGREATGREATGREAT GRANDFATHER ENSLAVED MINE YOU BASTARD.
[When in fact, on my mom's side, those ancestors were Polish and being enslaved by Russia, and my dad's side was still in Italy, so my bloodline had nothing to do with it.]

I didn't enslave anybody. I don't care if someone is black or hispanic or asian or whateverthehell.
And I think most people are cool with that too.
But this constant division, this pay-me-for-what-happened-a-really-long-time-ago attitude, isn't helping equality at ALL.

[Mr. Ron]

I'm pretty sure that most prominent black leaders see reparations as silly.

[Sunshine]

I do believe that they do, but how long will it take to trickle down to normal society?

I mean, obviously I'm not sayin' EVERY minority/chick/gay person is like that.

[JohnXDoe]

Do people honestly think there's no issue with race anymore?
i'm not sure there is an issue with race in government anymore. the struggles of the past were largely put on government because of its history of institutionalized racism. from slavery to the lack of voting rights, segregation, racist hiring practices in government and the private sector, the list obviously goes on and on.

but government over the years has cleaned much of this up. we have black public officials, (minority, i should say) good laws have been put in place to protect people, legislation brought about, and a black man with an arabic name might be President. i'm not sure if that happens in a country where racism is a very serious problem. we've come a long way

i really do think the "struggle" is over so far as race is concerned. and i'm someone who has been on the butt end of racism

however...the damage done remains in some communities, and perhaps more so with a lot of people. we have the poverty, lack of education, underemployment, and drug problems that come with a whole class of people who have been beat down and made to feel inferior. and that lingers in society. and of course the racism many hold in their hearts, well, that doesn't go away as easily as the racism in government. that comes from an age old place even government can't control

so like i said i really do think the "struggle" is over. and this is why the whole "race" speech by Barack upset me. i don't think it needs much focus in government. just fund the programs and make the policies that help ALL underprivileged people empower themselves and the racism, or the issue of racism, will cease to exist on a level that might not change peoples hearts, but will continue to change society

so yeah i think its an issue, but not one that needs as much focus as its getting atm

i see people on TV talking about how great it is that this dialogue about race has been opened up in the country and how we ALL need to come to this higher understanding, etc. and i just think its bs. we don't need a national dialogue on race. if anything we should close that can of worms and start to clean up and repair the damage done by our past with it. first step might be to realize we are no longer in that past.

[Sleep]

It'd be cooler if people actually tried for equality instead of trying for separating themselves with groups.

they "separate" themselves into groups in order to band together to fight FOR equality. yeesh.

i see people on TV talking about how great it is that this dialogue about race has been opened up in the country and how we ALL need to come to this higher understanding, etc. and i just think its bs. we don't need a national dialogue on race. if anything we should close that can of worms and start to clean up and repair the damage done by our past with it. first step might be to realize we are no longer in that past.

why are people so afraid to talk about this issue? of course we need a national dialogue about race. i think everyone can acknowledge that we have made huge progress in terms of race, and no one is advocating reparations as a solution, but again, after DECADES of serious inequality and oppression, a few laws aren't going to clean up very deep-seated views about race. you can make laws against racial discrimination but you can't legislate what society thinks.

[DBoons Ghost]

The decades of inequality and oppresion you speak of.. Can you point out how that applies to race specifically as opposed to class?

[guitrguy]

At least most of us can agree Wright is a retard.

[J Rad]

i think the biggest point everyone is missing is that the more you make race an issue the more of an issue it becomes

race is only still a platform of discussion today because we can't let it go

equality is very much a fact, at least as much so as it will probably ever be the way we hold it on a pedestal in the political arena

you know why lower class black people get harassed by the police? because they're committing crimes

if a white person commits a crime and struggles against the cops they're going to get their *** beat too

the issue is not in the oppression of the black race but in the inability for the black race to stop seeking out racial injustice

there will always be racist people but you don't have to be racist to clobber some black crackhead because he threatened to stick you with a needle when you were arresting him, the whole while screaming that he was being beaten by racist white cops

i think i'm getting off the point so i'll just say that i firmly believe that many racial issues in the black community are created by black people looking for an excuse for their financial and social situation

the quick fix is not in making race a national issue but in addressing the root of the lower class problem

whites, blacks, mexicans, w/e all have their place in the lower class and the issue is not their race but why they're there and how we can elevate their status

if we focused as much energy into the recognition of class divisions as we do into the non-issue of racial divisions american society would be far better than it is right now

[EinzingerIsGod]

mexicans,

Mexicans aren't a race. In fact races don't really exist. They are socially constructed ways of making people seem different. There is no gene for race.

[Smokey D]

Sure there are. Black people aren't white. But genetic race has such little effect on the important parts of human experience it shouldn't be used to justify social distinctions and inequalities.

imo, no, maybe the way its usually forced down our throats like we are somehow to blaim, maybe being white has something to do with it, but i think the vast majority (at least in america) feel we are all equal, so lets start acting like it, drop the crutches that will only hold us back, properly identify the reasons why certain classes feel left out or marginalized, instead of just using your skin color

Problem being that you manifestly aren't equal and white people insisting that blacks should just get over it in itself imposes substantive, though not formal, inequalities upon them.

[EinzingerIsGod]

Mexican is a nationality.

[Smokey D]

Sure. But nationalities can be baesd on racial lines sometimes. Probably not with Mexicans, but many Hispanics would be genetically distinct from WASP Americans.

[EinzingerIsGod]

Right, I was just pointing out to J Rad that Mexicans aren't a race.

[Sunshine]

they "separate" themselves into groups in order to band together to fight FOR equality. yeesh.

Y'know, "separate but equal" doesn't actually work though.
So.

[BridgeToSolace]

At least most of us can agree Wright is a retard.

I found his NAACP speech hilarious and clever.

He's great at impressions.

Then again, the whole "This US government created AIDs to kill black people" is silly. Mostly just because that's a stupid reason to start AIDs.

[Amit]

Exactly.
A lot of problems [today] are caused by OMFGZ YOU'RE WHITE SO YOUR GREATGREATGREATGREATGREATGREAT GRANDFATHER ENSLAVED MINE YOU BASTARD.
[When in fact, on my mom's side, those ancestors were Polish and being enslaved by Russia, and my dad's side was still in Italy, so my bloodline had nothing to do with it.]

I didn't enslave anybody. I don't care if someone is black or hispanic or asian or whateverthehell.
And I think most people are cool with that too.
But this constant division, this pay-me-for-what-happened-a-really-long-time-ago attitude, isn't helping equality at ALL.

the irony is that you're being racist

the funniest bit is that people like you and ringworm can't even see it

[Sunshine]

Yes.
Because wanting to treat everyone equally is racist.
Ok.

[FIGHTCRIMEALLTHETIME]

the irony is that you're being racist

the funniest bit is that people like you and ringworm can't even see it

lol thats just what i was thinking
no offense sunshine or ringworm its not like you are the only ones or anything

[Sunshine]

I still don't see why everybody being like, the same, and equal in crap, is racist, but if you say so.

'k, dinner time.

[FIGHTCRIMEALLTHETIME]

k well youre blaming racial tension on black people
you obviously dont understand the perspective of different people cuz nobody is asking for payment slavery
not to mention your attitude is of superiority like 'we have the right idea and the blacks are fuking it up'
its pretty racist to me


edit im just responding to amits quote i havent read the rest yet

[Ando!]

I still don't see why everybody being like, the same, and equal in crap, is racist, but if you say so.

'k, dinner time.

well being "the same, and equal in crap" is not exactly what you were saying

no well-reasoned person still thinks we owe any race, least of all blacks, payment for injustices

hypothetically blaming other races for accusing you of crimes that aren't your own is just as ridiculous of someone accusing that in the first place

[Sunshine]

Except I've heard people saying that white people owe black people things for what happened in the past blah blah blah.

Seen it on TV, speeches and things.

But whatever. Ok.

[Ando!]

see:

well being "the same, and equal in crap" is not exactly what you were saying

no well-reasoned person still thinks we owe any race, least of all blacks, payment for injustices

hypothetically blaming other races for accusing you of crimes that aren't your own is just as ridiculous of someone accusing that in the first place

[Sunshine]

I never suggested that a well-reasoned person would think that, I specifically mentioned that not everyone believes that because, well, that would be bullshit.

But I was called a racist for suggesting that anyone would think think that.

[Ando!]

you seem to care very much about stupid people

[Sunshine]

It's insanely irritating to listen to.

[FIGHTCRIMEALLTHETIME]

Except I've heard people saying that white people owe black people things for what happened in the past blah blah blah.

Seen it on TV, speeches and things.

But whatever. Ok.

idk you sure youre not just talking about an episode of a show called the dave chappelle show

[Sunshine]

Very.

[BassRevelation1029]

Do people honestly think there's no issue with race anymore?
Anyone who says 'no' is naive, plain and simple.

I can't believe some of these subsequent posts

At least most of us can agree Wright is a retard.

Disagree

To bring up a point from Bill Moyers, why is it that whites like Pat Robertson and Hagee say inflammatory comments and get away with it, but when a pastor of color speaks up, he gets so much attention?
I still don't see why everybody being like, the same, and equal in crap, is racist, but if you say so.

Because you believe its so easy for blacks to pull themselves out of a hole that America dug for them for hundreds of years and quickly rise to the status of upper-middle class, white Americans.


Seen it on TV, speeches and things.

This is not the general attitude of African-Americans.

Put away your strawman.

[Danger Bird]

To bring up a point from Bill Moyers, why is it that whites like Pat Robertson and Hagee say inflammatory comments and get away with it, but when a pastor of color speaks up, he gets so much attention?

Uh they're some of the most hated people in this country. Wright is just a fresh face.

[Sunshine]

Because you believe its so easy for blacks to pull themselves out of a hole that America dug for them for hundreds of years and quickly rise to the status of upper-middle class, white Americans.

That doesn't make treating people equally racist.

I'll say it again.

Separate but equal doesn't work.

[Amit]

i love it how certain white people think it's not racist that they should be the ones to decide whether or not racism doesn't exist or doesn't exist

LOOK AT WHO IS DOMINATING THE MAINSTREAM DIALOG FOR GODSAKES

[Sunshine]

Equality.
Is.
Not.
Racist.

[Amit]

but you aren't saying anything about equality

[ringworm]

Problem being that you manifestly aren't equal and white people insisting that blacks should just get over it
i dont mean, hey black people, get over it, i mean as a whole

try not to through stuff in each others faces, it tends to work better that way
i love it how certain white people think it's not racist that they should be the ones to decide whether or not racism doesn't exist or doesn't exist
never said that, ever

just some people look so hard to try and see through until they find something they can manifest into a thought opposite of what the poster is really saying

i feel people like amit (whether hes serious or not) and other pundits often involved in race discussions as going backwards to solve a problem, which just quagmires everything

[Sunshine]

but you aren't saying anything about equality

That's all I've been saying.
Instead of keeping on with this making special differences for different people and acknowledging the differences in people and tip-toeing around things solely because of different levels of pigmentation in the skin of others.
Instead, people should try to act like, I dunno, people, instead of white people and black people and asian people and hispanic people. It's not getting anywhere.
Your continued claims that I'm racist are entirely unfounded.

[Amit]

you're oppressing minorities socially when you make such assumptions and quick solutions and dominate the mainstream dialog with such cute and naive one liners

[Sunshine]

It's not oppressive if everybody is equal! I don't understand why that's such a difficult concept.

[Amit]

It's not oppressive if everybody is equal! I don't understand why that's such a difficult concept.

but you aren't treating everyone equally when you say things like everyone is equal

i don't understand why whitey has such trouble with such kkkoncepts

[Sunshine]

I'm not saying everyone is treated equally.
I'm saying everyone should be treated equally.
Because people are equal, because they're all ****ing people.
Wow.
Stop trying so hard to peg me as a racist.

[Amit]

I'm not saying everyone is treated equally.
I'm saying everyone should be treated equally.
Because people are equal, because they're all ****ing people.
Wow.
Stop trying so hard to peg me as a racist.

people shouldn't be treated equally are you retarded too now

seriously how can anyone be so naive

[Sunshine]

People shouldn't be treated equally?

That.
Is racist.

[Amit]

People shouldn't be treated equally?

no it's the complete opposite actually

That.
Is racist.

you're being racist again :lol:

what a sad day

[Sunshine]

You're a dumbass.

Racist people believe that not everyone is equal because of the color of their skin.

Treating people differently because of the color of one's skin is racist.

And if you believe that it's not, there's something seriously wrong with you.

[Amit]

You're a dumbass.

Racist people believe that not everyone is equal because of the color of their skin.

Treating people differently because of the color of one's skin is racist.

And if you believe that it's not, there's something seriously wrong with you.

you're confusing and conflating culture with race

a classic symptom of the ignorant and/or naive racist

but no really whitey, tell me more about racism since you understand it so well

[Bordello]

That.
Is racist.

[Amit]

Rat.
Is thacist.

:confused:

[Bordello]

people are equal because they're ****ing people WHATS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND>?!?!

[guitrguy]

Disagree

To bring up a point from Bill Moyers, why is it that whites like Pat Robertson and Hagee say inflammatory comments and get away with it, but when a pastor of color speaks up, he gets so much attention?
Oh, I think they are retarded too.
people are equal because they're ****ing people WHATS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND>?!?!
People failed the color unit in Kindergarten

[Mr. Ron]

I'm all for quelling discrimination, but I refuse to think I'm equal with a mullet wearing hick that beats his wife. No one is really equal.

[je suis un beau chapeau]

in the fifties your used to be able to call a guy a jew rat and knock him in the face with a sock full of quarters then go to a bar and share some beer and matzo bread lets go back to that

[free_thinkers_are_dangerous]

I'm all for quelling discrimination, but I refuse to think I'm equal with a mullet wearing hick that beats his wife. No one is really equal.

Unless you can propose some sort of fair mechanism for differentiating people, equal rights is the best system we've got.

[guitrguy]

Unless you can propose some sort of fair mechanism for differentiating people, equal rights is the best system we've got.

what he said has nothing to do with rights.

[Mr. Ron]

yup

[JohnXDoe]

/posting in a racsist thread

[Sunshine]

you're confusing and conflating culture with race

a classic symptom of the ignorant and/or naive racist

but no really whitey, tell me more about racism since you understand it so well

Because only white people are racists, right? Because white people are NEVER discriminated against, anywhere, ever, correct?

It's people like you who perpetuate racism.
Instead of taking me for just a person, you're constantly bringing up "white people this" and "white people that" and 'lol whitey lololol."

But no, it's not racist, because it's perfectly ok to say things like that. Because I'm white.

:rolleyes:

[1338 h4x0r]

Amit, knock it the **** off

[Mr. Ron]

Unless you can propose some sort of fair mechanism for differentiating people, equal rights is the best system we've got.

Nah, equal rights are good, but in reality, no one is equal.

[Amit]

Amit, knock it the **** off

knock what the **** off

i'm guess sorry i am shitting on some people's naive and politically proper beliefs about the contemporary sociological reality in america?

(lol i'm not really though)

[Dave de Sylvia]

Because only white people are racists, right? Because white people are NEVER discriminated against, anywhere, ever, correct?

It's people like you who perpetuate racism.
Instead of taking me for just a person, you're constantly bringing up "white people this" and "white people that" and 'lol whitey lololol."

But no, it's not racist, because it's perfectly ok to say things like that. Because I'm white.

:rolleyes:
Well if your whiteness informs your outlook then I don't really see why it's racist.

[1338 h4x0r]

knock what the **** off

i'm guess sorry i am shitting on some people's naive and politically proper beliefs about the contemporary sociological reality in america?

(lol i'm not really though)

It'd be fair to challenge someone's beliefs about US society, BUT it's not fair to call someone a "racist" without real justification. That strikes a raw nerve for me because few things are more aggravating than being told what you feel by someone else. You're acting like she can't figure that out on her own.

[Amit]

Because only white people are racists, right? Because white people are NEVER discriminated against, anywhere, ever, correct?

It's people like you who perpetuate racism.
Instead of taking me for just a person, you're constantly bringing up "white people this" and "white people that" and 'lol whitey lololol."

But no, it's not racist, because it's perfectly ok to say things like that. Because I'm white.

:rolleyes:

in america, white people aren't discriminated against in social situations

they're made hella fun of (as they rightfully should be) but you'd be only revealing how naive you really are if you think you, as a lanky mediocre white person, will ever be held back due to glass ceilings based on your race

It'd be fair to challenge someone's beliefs about US society, BUT it's not fair to call someone a "racist" without real justification. That strikes a raw nerve for me because few things are more aggravating than being told what you feel by someone else. You're acting like she can't figure that out on her own.

i've already covered why she's racist with plenty of real justification

when you state flowery naive and uneducated bullshit like she has, then you're being just as racist as the klansmen of yore

racism in america surely exists and it is perpetrated by every single person, white, black, brown, or yellow, who actually believes the PC crap that it doesn't exist or that it shouldn't exist and that only <insert race> are perpetuating it

it ought not to exist, but when you have a hideously uneven playing field for discussion and social dialog, then america will forever remain racist

[Mr. Ron]

In all honesty Amit, you're giving no evidence of why whites should be made fun of, or if they are never discriminated against.

[Amit]

In all honesty Amit, you're giving no evidence of why whites should be made fun of, or if they are never discriminated against.

a) because they clearly have a hard time dealing with being made fun of and that is hilarious unto itself
b) they may be discriminated against in the very rare social situations when a minority culture dominates that specific context, but the fact that whites focus on these isolated incidences only affirm their social superiority over other cultures

[Dave de Sylvia]

In all honesty Amit, you're giving no evidence of why whites should be made fun of
because it's funny?

[Amit]

lol dave ^*^

[1338 h4x0r]

racism in america surely exists and it is perpetrated by every single person, white, black, brown, or yellow, who actually believes the PC crap that it doesn't exist or that it shouldn't exist and that only <insert race> are perpetuating it

I probably have subconscious attachment to stereotypes somehow, but most of the people I associate with aren't white. So I really hope I don't practice active racism.

[Sunshine]

in america, white people aren't discriminated against in social situations

But in Japan they are.
And hey! I lived there for 3 years!

[iliketoplaydrums10111]

a) because they clearly have a hard time dealing with being made fun of and that is hilarious unto itself
b) they may be discriminated against in the very rare social situations when a minority culture dominates that specific context, but the fact that whites focus on these isolated incidences only affirm their social superiority over other cultures

Point B can said about any race tbh.

[Amit]

I probably have subconscious attachment to stereotypes somehow, but most of the people I associate with aren't white. So I really hope I don't practice active racism.

you aren't practicing active racism and neither is sunshine or ringworm

this is a subtle sort of meta-racism, but in the end, it's actually far more debilitating for america's social destiny than a hundred lynchings

But in Japan they are.
And hey! I lived there for 3 years!

we're talking about america you silly bint well played

Point B can said about any race tbh.

see above

i guess to make some of you less progressive whiteys more comfortable, i ought to call it culturism, which would be a more accurate term

but where's the fun in that?

[1338 h4x0r]

But in Japan they are.
And hey! I lived there for 3 years!

How much does that happen

[Sunshine]

Looking past the color of a person's skin is not racist in any way, shape or form.

How much does that happen

How much does what happen?

[Amit]

Looking past the color of a person's skin is not racist in any way, shape or form.

let me guess

you don't see race

bahaha you should date steven colbert

[Sunshine]

I'm sorry if you do, but to be very most perfectly honest, I couldn't care less the color of one's skin or where the hell they came from.

[Mr. Ron]

a) because they clearly have a hard time dealing with being made fun of and that is hilarious unto itself
b) they may be discriminated against in the very rare social situations when a minority culture dominates that specific context, but the fact that whites focus on these isolated incidences only affirm their social superiority over other cultures
I think that has to do more with how you were brought up. I don't think not being able to take some ball busting is exclusive mostly to one race. I've met plenty of :brown: that get all macho and defensive when even a hint of criticism is in the air, its funny to watch, but form a distance. All of us sensible Europeans know you savages carry guns. :^o (kekeke)

But seriously, imo, it has to do with how much of a douche-nozzle you are (not YOU, people in general) as an individual.


I don't disagree with B) that much.

[Dave de Sylvia]

Looking past the color of a person's skin is not racist in any way, shape or form.
But you're not looking past the colour of people's skin, you're criticising people with other skin colours for their inability to look past the skin colour issue, which is just seven shades of retarded.

[Amit]

I'm sorry if you do, but to be very most perfectly honest, I couldn't care less the color of one's skin or where the hell they came from.

hahaha

the best part is that some poor whiteys like you actually believe this tripe

I think that has to do more with how you were brought up. I don't think not being able to take some ball busting is exclusive mostly to one race. I've met plenty of :brown: that get all macho and defensive when even a hint of criticism is in the air, its funny to watch, but form a distance. All of us sensible Europeans know you savages carry guns. :^o (kekeke)

But seriously, imo, it has to do with how much of a douche-nozzle you are (not YOU, people in general) as an individual.


I don't disagree with B) that much.

of course i agree completely

but seriously

trolling white people has always been more fun than trolling anyone else

[Sunshine]

But you're not looking past the colour of people's skin, you're criticising people with other skin colours for their inability to look past the skin colour issue, which is just seven shades of retarded.

I don't care about where someone comes from.
If a white person is all OMFGZ RACE it's retarded.
Same as black.
And asian.
Hispanic.
Native American.
Whatever-the-****.

I'm not just "criticizing" other people. White kids included.


the best part is that some poor whiteys like you actually believe this tripe]

You can keep thinking that all white people are inherently racist or whatever the hell you believe, because when it boils down to it, I'm not, and you're god knows how many miles away from wherever I will ever be, which means I never have to deal with you for real, thank God.
I don't have to convince you of anything.
You can go on telling me and all of MX just how big of a racist "whitey" I am, it doesn't matter.
This is the internet.
And I'm done arguing with your close-minded self.

[1338 h4x0r]

How much does what happen?

Racism in Japan. I heard it's less common these days, from others that it's still prevalent, etc. So idk

[Mr. Ron]

I don't care about where someone comes from.
If a white person is all OMFGZ RACE it's retarded.
Same as black.
And asian.
Hispanic.
Native American.
Whatever-the-****.

I'm not just "criticizing" other people. White kids included.



You can keep thinking that all white people are inherently racist or whatever the hell you believe, because when it boils down to it, I'm not, and you're god knows how many miles away from wherever I will ever be, which means I never have to deal with you for real, thank God.
I don't have to convince you of anything.
You can go on telling me and all of MX just how big of a racist "whitey" I am, it doesn't matter.
This is the internet.
And I'm done arguing with your close-minded self.
to be fair i don't think amit thinks all whites are inherently racist, and i think a couple posts ago he said he didn't think you were really racist. ( I could be mistaken)

[Mr. Ron]

Racism in Japan. I heard it's less common these days, from others that it's still prevalent, etc. So idk

this has nothing to do with anything, but how rad are samurai

[Sunshine]

Racism in Japan. I heard it's less common these days, from others that it's still prevalent, etc. So idk

Ah.
Well, it's not super-wide-spread-everywhere, but it's definitely there.
A lot of Japanese people look at non-Japanese people as "trained monkeys," especially white people/Americans, which doesn't help the situation.

[1338 h4x0r]

to be fair i don't think amit thinks all whites are inherently racist, and i think a couple posts ago he said he didn't think you were really racist. ( I could be mistaken)

I'm getting shades of chronopops here

Ah.
Well, it's not super-wide-spread-everywhere, but it's definitely there.
A lot of Japanese people look at non-Japanese people as "trained monkeys," especially white people/Americans, which doesn't help the situation.

I would imagine it's least common among the young folks. I have several Japanese bros who treat me like an equal peer. The most important guidelines to follow with East Asians are "Don't be a dick, be a dude" and "Don't be an ignorant oaf" and that usually seems to overcome any initial skepticism. I know about Yellow Magic Orchestra and can do Gaussian elimination by hand so w00t

this has nothing to do with anything, but how rad are samurai

AWESOME

http://eabcaecbbceacbae.blogspot.com/2008/04/yellow-magic-orchestra-key.html

[Sunshine]

...?

[Dave de Sylvia]

I don't care about where someone comes from.
If a white person is all OMFGZ RACE it's retarded.
Same as black.
And asian.
Hispanic.
Native American.
Whatever-the-****.

I'm not just "criticizing" other people. White kids included.
That's not what you said earlier:
Exactly.
A lot of problems [today] are caused by OMFGZ YOU'RE WHITE SO YOUR GREATGREATGREATGREATGREATGREAT GRANDFATHER ENSLAVED MINE YOU BASTARD.
[When in fact, on my mom's side, those ancestors were Polish and being enslaved by Russia, and my dad's side was still in Italy, so my bloodline had nothing to do with it.]

Which you later admitted was a conception based on TV shows:

Except I've heard people saying that white people owe black people things for what happened in the past blah blah blah.

Seen it on TV, speeches and things.

But whatever. Ok.

[Sunshine]

Doesn't mean I don't think racist white people are just as stupid.

[Amit]

bahaha

it's a strange day when it takes an amit and dave to save the day

Doesn't mean I don't think racist white people are just as stupid.

that doesn't excuse or negate your racist view though hahaha

[Mr. Ron]

I'm getting shades of chronopops here



I would imagine it's least common among the young folks. I have several Japanese bros who treat me like an equal peer. The most important guidelines to follow with East Asians are "Don't be a dick, be a dude" and "Don't be an ignorant ***" and that seems to overcome any initial skepticism. I know about Yellow Magic Orchestra and can do Gaussian elimination by hand so w00t



AWESOME

http://eabcaecbbceacbae.blogspot.com/2008/04/yellow-magic-orchestra-key.html
I'm not sure what you're getting at?

[Dave de Sylvia]

OK, but you've still expressed on numerous occasions the opinion that people of other races blame you/white people for their comparatively lower social standing. And this you based on no evidence except TV, speeches and things. Which means you've inferred the opinions of a large number of people of other races based on the comments of a few. Which is racist.

[Sunshine]

I would imagine it's least common among the young folks. I have several Japanese bros who treat me like an equal peer. The most important guidelines to follow with East Asians are "Don't be a dick, be a dude" and "Don't be an ignorant oaf" and that usually seems to overcome any initial skepticism. I know about Yellow Magic Orchestra and can do Gaussian elimination by hand so w00t

Yeah, usually it's not too bad with younger folks/
My boyfriend's half Japanese/half white, but he's still a little racist, in a weird subdued way. It's more the Japanese/American comparison though, not Japanese/white in general.

[1338 h4x0r]

...?

Yellow Magic Orchestra is a great Japanese electronic band. They haven't performed in years, but the song Rydeen used to be a popular ring-tone and people still do remixes. (I've heard they might come up with a new album soon.)

Speaking of Gaussian elimination, I was talking with my bro Kenichi about how we Amurr'kins can't do math by hand and that came up. Idk sorry, I'm so random sometimes

I'm not sure what you're getting at?

Amit wrote a bunch of chronopops posts lol

[Sunshine]

OK, but you've still expressed on numerous occasions the opinion that people of other races blame you/white people for their comparatively lower social standing. And this you based on no evidence except TV, speeches and things. Which means you've inferred the opinions of a large number of people of other races based on the comments of a few. Which is racist.

Ok, but then I digressed, and said that even I know most don't think that. Because it would be stupid to believe that most did.

I was talking about those specifically who spread those sentiments. They need to stfu and quit spreading their incorrect ideas.

So no. I don't think the comments of a minority reflect the opinions of a majority.

[1338 h4x0r]

Yeah, usually it's not too bad with younger folks/
My boyfriend's half Japanese/half white, but he's still a little racist, in a weird subdued way. It's more the Japanese/American comparison though, not Japanese/white in general.

lol, cool, ppl frequently think I'm German or something anyway

[Sunshine]

Haha, same. Most people think I'm from somewhere in Europe, I don't get bothered much when I'm traveling.

[Amit]

Yeah, usually it's not too bad with younger folks/
My boyfriend's half Japanese/half white, but he's still a little racist, in a weird subdued way. It's more the Japanese/American comparison though, not Japanese/white in general.

wait wait wait

your boyfriend's half japanese?

well damn

i feel silly :(

[Dave de Sylvia]

Ok, but then I digressed, and said that even I know most don't think that. Because it would be stupid to believe that most did.

I was talking about those specifically who spread those sentiments. They need to stfu and quit spreading their incorrect ideas.

So no. I don't think the comments of a minority reflect the opinions of a majority.
But if they don't reflect the opinions of the majority then why are they relevant?

[1338 h4x0r]

So everyone agrees that samurai are totally rad though right ... like as rad as Vikings

[Mr. Ron]

yes

[Mr. Ron]

yes

[Sunshine]

wait wait wait

your boyfriend's half japanese?

well damn

i feel silly :(

Err.
Yeah?

[Amit]

bahaha just kidding you're still racist

[Sunshine]

If you say so.

[Amit]

If you say so.

not so vicious anymore eh

why are white girls always like this

[Sunshine]

There's no point in talking a close-minded racist out of his beliefs, so I don't really feel like trying.

[Amit]

i'm not racist!

i have a white girlfriend who loves me very much! and lots of white friends! and yellow friends! and brown friends! and even real black friends!

please you ignorant bint, you completely ignored my very real and very valid accusation and now are just peddling around desperately pointing fingers every which way except for the correct direction

at yourself

[Dave de Sylvia]

every time you point your finger

three more point right back at you

[Sunshine]

i'm not racist!

i have a white girlfriend who loves me very much! and lots of white friends! and yellow friends! and brown friends! and even real black friends

That's a racist's number one argument against them actually being racist, by the way.


please you ignorant bint, you completely ignored my very real and very valid accusation and now are just peddling around desperately pointing fingers every which way except for the correct direction

at yourself

Oh, well then by all means, please, reiterate this "very valid" accusation so I can acknowledge it.