Jewishness

[totah]

This is a question of which the answer is very imporant and quite crucial to the Israel/Palestine situation and to those who consider themselves Jews worldwide, as well as those who are affected by Zionism: What is a Jew?

A couple of centuries ago this question was easy to answer; a Jew was someone who followed the Jewish religion. But with the rise of Marxism and other radical social ideologies, many Jews (and I use the word lightly in this context) became atheists/agnostics, leaving the religion behind. And many still considered themselves Jews. Many didn't.

Another, hazier aspect, is the Jewish race. There are definitely stereotypes of the Jewish appearance, alternatively called Semetic. However genetically-speaking Palestinians and many other peoples in the Middle-East are of the Semetic race, yet bear no resemblance to Ashkenazi (European) Jews. On top of this, Morrocan, Sephardic, Eastern, Ethiopian, and South American Jews bear little to no resemblance to Ashkenazis. Maybe this was different 200 years ago, but nowadays it's not easy to "tell a Jew" by her appearance.

And yet Zionists say they exist to protect and look after the interests of members of this apparently non-existent race. Hundreds of thousands have died and millions more turned into refugees in the name of this race.

I define myself as a Jew, because I was born of two self-defined Jews in a supposedly Jewish country and both sides of the family for the three generations that we can count (youngest excepted) came from religious Jews.

Discuss.

[Sunshine]

I know a "Jewish" chick.
She's a supposed Jew, but is "uber-reformed" and all that..I think she just does it to get attention, to be honest.

But I also know a Jewish guy.
Like, beyond perpetuating the stereotype Jewish guy.
In both looks and actions.
And he can read/speak Hebrew.

Apparently I'm ethnically part Jewish, but everybody says that's not possible and that only Jewish [religion-following] people are Jews.

[Danish]

Well, I think this is a discussion of semantics first and foremost. "Jew" happens to be a term we use in the english language to describe both people who believe in the Jewish faith as well as people of "Jewish descent". Like, you can be Italian, and that probably means you have fairly strong Catholic roots too, but we have a way of differentiating between the two because "Catholic" and "Italian" are different words.

Perhaps the language has been set up in this way...

[McP3000]

doesn't matter where they get their jewishness from, they still have jew gold

[spitfirejunky]

Ethnicity or religion.

[Danish]

"Jew", as a race, is socially constructed in a similar way to other races. Race isn't real in a biological sense.

[Futue te Ipsum]

err, yeah it is

[Iskandar]

"Jew" is not a race, it is an ethnicity. A Jew doesn't necessarily have to practice Judaism to be considered as such either.

The Reform movement of Judaism considers anyone who self-identifies as a Jew to be Jewish.

[Curve]

"Jew", as a race, is socially constructed in a similar way to other races. Race isn't real in a biological sense.

You don't know a lot about biology do you?

[BridgeToSolace]

I'm Jewish.

My parents tell me that I'm Jewish because my mother was Jewish when she had me (she converted to Judaism before that), whether I believe in god or not.

I kind of call bullshit on this, but Israeli people are distinct enough to get their own ethnicity. White arabs, basically. With curlier hair.

[Iscariot]

if someone claims to be a jew yet lacks a large nose, curly hair, or a proper yamaka, they are not really a jew

[Iskandar]

yarmulke

Or even better, kippah.

[JohnXDoe]

i like kosher :)

[BridgeToSolace]

Kosher is lame.

although not as lame as matzah. Non-jews seem to like matzah, which is weird.

[sexymuffin]

some jewish girls are mad hot i know that much

[JohnXDoe]

Kosher is lame.

although not as lame as matzah. Non-jews seem to like matzah, which is weird.
no kosher is good if you're not jewish bcuz then you can eat other things, too. even mix kosher and non kosher. like kosher pastrami on a 1/2 pound 100% pork hotdog served on a kaiser roll with a side of cole slaw and french fries cooked in pig fat.

'tis good :D

and a nice ruben sandwich is also great. piled nice and high

[1338 h4x0r]

A Jew is someone who is unkvlt and ungrim, to the highest degree. And, unfortunately, there is nothing you can do to sponge away the Hebraic mark of ungrimness and non-elitery

I hope that answers your question

[totah]

There used to be an easy way to tell if someone's Jewish, but then all you yankee bastards started copying us and lopping off yoru foresks.

[1338 h4x0r]

I think that's been adopted in various countries for health reasons (no space for motile organisms, less chance of AIDS, etc.).

I'm all for any measure that makes the sex organs look slightly less ridiculous, especially since I don't remember how my procedure happened.

[totah]

How does it help stop HIV?!

And it makes sex not as good (on average obviously, since the quality of sex is only as good as the people involved are gonna make it) on account of the foreskin being full of nerve-endings and it makes wanking more problematic (especially if someone else is servicing you and don't know their way around an uncut ****) though not dramatically and some people like foreskins.

Also there's nothing you can do to make a penis look less ridiculous when it's soft, short of cutting it off.

[dei]

You don't know a lot about biology do you?

No, he knows too much.

[1338 h4x0r]

How does it help stop HIV?!

One less place to hide I guess

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/782656.stm

Also there's nothing you can do to make a penis look less ridiculous when it's soft, short of cutting it off.

Sorry penes and vaginæ just look ridiculous regardless how aroused they are.

http://fusionanomaly.net/xenomorph.jpg

I rest my case.

[totah]

Fair enough about the chop.

But that looks neither like a penis nor a vagina. And dicks look great when they're erect, except the specifically ugly ones. And cunts do too. In fact an unaroused cunt is one of the most boring things I can think of seeing. It's just a slit. Like a dry paper-cut.

[1338 h4x0r]

But that looks neither like a penis nor a vagina.

The head of the Alien does look like a dick, except it's backwards and the jizz drips out at the other end. And if you don't believe me, look at this:

http://www.system75.com/gallery/giger/images/Necronomicon_IV.jpg

Now you know why that movie was horrific.

[Smokey D]

The xenomorphs were designed to look as phallic as possible.

And then a strong female lead takes them on and whoops them.

I think there's a message in that.

But it doesn't have much to do with being Jewish.

[1338 h4x0r]

Ah, Ripley represents the will of the Jewish people to overcome violent oppressors.

Dayyyyeeeeenuuuu, dayyyyeeeeenuuuu ....

I'm pretty sure we got here by mentioning circumcision, which inevitably derails a thread.

[mph4ever]

i found this informative

http://www.hagshama.org.il/en/resources/view.asp?id=1381&subject=33



on a side note, and this is not meant to be offenisve but i then searched google to find what it means to be a jew and got this

An explanation of our search results.

If you recently used Google to search for the word "Jew," you may have seen results that were very disturbing. We assure you that the views expressed by the sites in your results are not in any way endorsed by Google. We'd like to explain why you're seeing these results when you conduct this search.

A site's ranking in Google's search results relies heavily on computer algorithms using thousands of factors to calculate a page's relevance to a given query. Sometimes subtleties of language cause anomalies to appear that cannot be predicted. A search for "Jew" brings up one such unexpected result.

If you use Google to search for "Judaism," "Jewish" or "Jewish people," the results are informative and relevant. So why is a search for "Jew" different? One reason is that the word "Jew" is often used in an anti-Semitic context. Jewish organizations are more likely to use the word "Jewish" when talking about members of their faith. The word has become somewhat charged linguistically, as noted on websites devoted to Jewish topics such as these:


http://shakti.trincoll.edu/~mendele/vol01/vol01.174
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/jonah081500.asp

Someone searching for information on Jewish people would be more likely to enter terms like "Judaism," "Jewish people," or "Jews" than the single word "Jew." In fact, prior to this incident, the word "Jew" only appeared about once in every 10 million search queries. Now it's likely that the great majority of searches on Google for "Jew" are by people who have heard about this issue and want to see the results for themselves.

The beliefs and preferences of those who work at Google, as well as the opinions of the general public, do not determine or impact our search results. Individual citizens and public interest groups do periodically urge us to remove particular links or otherwise adjust search results. Although Google reserves the right to address such requests individually, Google views the comprehensiveness of our search results as an extremely important priority. Accordingly, we do not remove a page from our search results simply because its content is unpopular or because we receive complaints concerning it. We will, however, remove pages from our results if we believe the page (or its site) violates our Webmaster Guidelines, if we believe we are required to do so by law, or at the request of the webmaster who is responsible for the page.

We apologize for the upsetting nature of the experience you had using Google and appreciate your taking the time to inform us about it.

Sincerely,
The Google Team

p.s. You may be interested in some additional information the Anti-Defamation League has posted about this issue at http://www.adl.org/rumors/google_search_rumors.asp. In addition, we call your attention to Google's search results on this topic.

[1338 h4x0r]

I can't imagine why anyone would take offense to the outcome of running an algorithm. Algorithms don't have any kind of conscience, you know.

[mph4ever]

agreed, i just don't know all the rules, i see people get banned but i have never seen why so i was just being careful, c'est la vie

[totah]

Do we?

[1338 h4x0r]

agreed, i just don't know all the rules, i see people get banned but i have never seen why so i was just being careful, c'est la vie

I'm really more talking about people who get shocked when a search engine turns up something they find offensive. Like the computer is supposed to know.

[Smokey D]

It's clearly Google covering it's arse and pointing out why it comes up and why that doesn't mean Google supports the views expressed.

It's the same as any disclaimer 'the views expressed here are not necessarily shared or endorsed by x company'.

[mph4ever]

yes but if you put in paddy you getting offered odds on a horse and whiskey, how come they don't disclaim that

[Smokey D]

Because paddy isn't used in anti-Irish propoganda of remotely comparable virulence.

[Iskandar]

L'chaim, l'chaim, to life!

[mph4ever]

well try paki then coz they don't disclaim that either

*standard discalimer, i don't want to be banned

[Smokey D]

Maybe ****** would be a better comparison.

Paki is insulting but it isn't usually used in the same way as anti-semetic racism is used.

Which is quite a curious thing really. Jew is obviously nowhere near as insulting as ******, but by itself the word is often found in extremely insulting contexts whereas paki is inherently more insulting but is usually found in less insulting (although still bad) contexts.

[1338 h4x0r]

I agree, especially considering that there is some ambiguity with how people use 'Paki'.

[mph4ever]

i think i could safely say that very few instances of the word paki are used as terms of endearment or fondness. i think you will find it is racist, totally, ask any poor old fu'cken paki.

[1338 h4x0r]

I don't doubt what you're saying, but it's hard for me to grasp why someone would take offense to the name of his nationality, shortened.

[Smokey D]

i think i could safely say that very few instances of the word paki are used as terms of endearment or fondness. i think you will find it is racist, totally, ask any poor old fu'cken paki.

Sure but I don't think it's used with the same level of vehermence as the word Jew is in the contexts Google was warning its users about.

Google is clearly referring to Holocaust-denying, Hitler-esque hatespeech. I don't think Paki has ever really been used in that context or if it has you aren't going to find much of it on the net (not nearly as much as you would find for the word 'Jew').

I don't doubt what you're saying, but it's hard for me to grasp why someone would take offense to the name of his nationality, shortened.

I don't know if you're just being trite, but it's pretty damn obvious.

And the answer is because it's intended as an insult.

[mph4ever]

Sure but I don't think it's used with the same level of vehermence as the word Jew is in the contexts Google was warning its users about.




man, i just had a look around and it is just way too distracting, go have a look for hindunet and just see how racist that lot are, they're worse than stormfront

i hate racism, i really do

[1338 h4x0r]

I don't know if you're just being trite, but it's pretty damn obvious.

And the answer is because it's intended as an insult.

Oh

I stopped taking offense to 'nerd' and similar slurs a while ago, idk

And for the record I wasn't being trite that time

[totah]

I don't doubt what you're saying, but it's hard for me to grasp why someone would take offense to the name of his nationality, shortened.

As a point of information, some Pakistanti/Indian/Midasian-descended youth in Britain call themselves paki as a term of pride. It's not as common as n!gger is with African-descended folk in America, but it's around. I seen it on shirts.

man, i just had a look around and it is just way too distracting, go have a look for hindunet and just see how racist that lot are, they're worse than stormfront

i hate racism, i really do

www.redwatch.co.uk hilarious stuff.

[mph4ever]

http://www.hinduweb.org/home/general_sites/sita/sitakasansar/paki.htm

gets worse

[1338 h4x0r]

http://www.hinduweb.org/home/general_sites/sita/sitakasansar/paki.htm

gets worse

I like how most of those jokes consist of replacing the names of the original stooges with 'Pakistani'. Like the one about Ronald Reagan jumping out of an airplane with someone's backpack.

[mph4ever]

there is nothing original anymore

[totah]

Some of those jokes were really funny.

[Smokey D]

wait is taht meant to be worse than stormfront?

[totah]

They try, but at the end of the day they're only pakis and can't do racism like white people can.

[mph4ever]

stormfront is in a league of its own. i frequent a board where one of their lot sharpens his skills and these people are evil. did you ever have a browse?

[totah]

An ex-MX member asked on stromfront if he can join the NF cos he hates Arabs and he's anti-Zionist, but he's Jewish, and they said he can't because "his blood would undermine the organisation, even though he has good politics".:lol:

[mph4ever]

but if he renounced judaism would they let him join or would he have to have his foreskin stitched back on also

[Smokey D]

Stormfront is the kind of place that takes the idea of being Jewish-by-blood very seriously. It's not something you can renounce for them.

[1338 h4x0r]

Stormfront is the kind of place that takes the idea of being Jewish-by-blood very seriously. It's not something you can renounce for them.

I know a Taiwanese dude who is Jewish because he was adopted by Jewish parents

what

lololol

[Aaron]

Jewish biological heritage & Jewish in faith.

Different things, same label.

[1338 h4x0r]

yeah ... kind of like how 'virtual' is used in C++

[Det_Nosnip]

Mm...I'd say a Jewish person would be someone who follows and identifies with Jewish customs & culture. There are plenty of Jews who do not believe in God but still celebrate Passover, etc because it is a part of their heritage...there's more to it than the religious/soteriological aspects.

[Smokey D]

Do people who celebrate Christmas count as Christians?

[totah]

Goys is goys.

[MC WhiteBoi]

the real jews were africans descended from the egyptians who also were also negro and if u think not look the hebrew language is categorized along with all the other african languages but then when the dispersia happen they was exiled and many mated with the white devils but they are not real jews cuz real jews are brown and originally from africa

[1338 h4x0r]

the real jews were africans descended from the egyptians who also were also negro and if u think not look the hebrew language is categorized along with all the other african languages but then when the dispersia happen they was exiled and many mated with the white devils but they are not real jews cuz real jews are brown and originally from africa

Why is it that few modern Jews 'grip n' sip'?

[MC WhiteBoi]

peh i told u they be imposters real jews is brown fool meh

[mph4ever]

i just think its hilarious that the ad at the top of the page is for "learn hebrew now"

heres the link - www.hebrewonline.com

[Jude]

This is a question of which the answer is very imporant and quite crucial to the Israel/Palestine situation and to those who consider themselves Jews worldwide, as well as those who are affected by Zionism: What is a Jew?

A couple of centuries ago this question was easy to answer; a Jew was someone who followed the Jewish religion. But with the rise of Marxism and other radical social ideologies, many Jews (and I use the word lightly in this context) became atheists/agnostics, leaving the religion behind. And many still considered themselves Jews. Many didn't.

Another, hazier aspect, is the Jewish race. There are definitely stereotypes of the Jewish appearance, alternatively called Semetic. However genetically-speaking Palestinians and many other peoples in the Middle-East are of the Semetic race, yet bear no resemblance to Ashkenazi (European) Jews. On top of this, Morrocan, Sephardic, Eastern, Ethiopian, and South American Jews bear little to no resemblance to Ashkenazis. Maybe this was different 200 years ago, but nowadays it's not easy to "tell a Jew" by her appearance.

And yet Zionists say they exist to protect and look after the interests of members of this apparently non-existent race. Hundreds of thousands have died and millions more turned into refugees in the name of this race.

I define myself as a Jew, because I was born of two self-defined Jews in a supposedly Jewish country and both sides of the family for the three generations that we can count (youngest excepted) came from religious Jews.

Discuss.

Whether intentional or not that's a pretty good explanation of why Zionism is ridiculous not to mention harmful to world peace

Thank God I wasn't born into an ethnicity that has such a creepy self obsession.

[Give me Beer]

www.redwatch.co.uk hilarious stuff.

lol, I noticed that they also do the infantile changing of names like our extreme-right wingers. (Example: on the site they change ANL to ANaL).

On a messageboard I use that has a lot of neo-nazis and supporters of the "Vlaams Belang" party (our equivalent of the BNP) do the exact same thing, all the time.

(Like the guy that runs the anti-racism centre here in Belgium is called "Jozef" so they'll change it to Youssef and more infantile crap like that).

[Smokey D]

Whether intentional or not that's a pretty good explanation of why Zionism is ridiculous not to mention harmful to world peace

Thank God I wasn't born into an ethnicity that has such a creepy self obsession.

Zionism is no more absurd than any other nationalism and it being harmful to world peace is largely a product of the opposition it faces.

[mph4ever]

is it a issue that zionism had a state before they had a country, then decided just to plant their state where they felt it should go based on some fairytale. i can't think of any other nationalism thats as absurd as that

[Smokey D]

The Jews had no state before 1948.

[mph4ever]

i'm not talking about the jews, zionism had a virtual state since the 19th century

herzl, after the first congress

""If I were to sum up the Congress in a word – which I shall take care not to publish – it would be this: At Basle I founded the Jewish State. If I said this out loud today I would be greeted by universal laughter. In five years perhaps, and certainly in fifty years, everyone will perceive it."

[Give me Beer]

The Jews had no state before 1948.

But it is a nationalism based on a great-Israel thinking, as well as a nationalism with ethnicity as a prerequisit. I could draw some parallells now with fascist nationalism and nationalism as practiced by the NSDAP, but that would just by nasty, right? (Greater Germany, Lebensraum, the focus on the "Aryan" ethnicity as prime requisit for citizenship).

I think nationalism is absurd and stupid in any form of course. Cultural adherence, sure, but giving unconditional loyality to an imaginary community as nationalism does, no thanks.

[Smokey D]

i'm not talking about the jews, zionism had a virtual state since the 19th century

Not really.

herzl, after the first congress

""If I were to sum up the Congress in a word – which I shall take care not to publish – it would be this: At Basle I founded the Jewish State. If I said this out loud today I would be greeted by universal laughter. In five years perhaps, and certainly in fifty years, everyone will perceive it."

He didn't mean there was an actual state, he meant there was what would become the Jewish state. He didn't mean there was a independent Jewish or Zionist state with its own laws or system of government.



But it is a nationalism based on a great-Israel thinking, as well as a nationalism with ethnicity as a prerequisit. I could draw some parallells now with fascist nationalism and nationalism as practiced by the NSDAP, but that would just by nasty, right? (Greater Germany, Lebensraum, the focus on the "Aryan" ethnicity as prime requisit for citizenship).

Only die hard ultra Zionists think like that. Certainly not all Israelis.

I think nationalism is absurd and stupid in any form of course. Cultural adherence, sure, but giving unconditional loyality to an imaginary community as nationalism does, no thanks.

All nationalism says is that there is something good about being ruled by people who share national characteristics. It doesn't necessarily say that your nation is always right, that your nation is better than anyone elses or anything like that.

[Jude]

i'm not talking about the jews, zionism had a virtual state since the 19th century



What?

Zionism is no more absurd than any other nationalism and it being harmful to world peace is largely a product of the opposition it faces.
See zero's thread

But it is a nationalism based on a great-Israel thinking, as well as a nationalism with ethnicity as a prerequisit. I could draw some parallells now with fascist nationalism and nationalism as practiced by the NSDAP, but that would just by nasty, right? (Greater Germany, Lebensraum, the focus on the "Aryan" ethnicity as prime requisit for citizenship).
OK you might draw parallel's between how Jews were ghettoed and what they're doing to Palestinians now but even that is extreme and comparing Zionists to Nazis doesn't really make sense at all.

Although speaking of Nazis, the one thing that really gets me about Israelis is how they go on and on about how they need their state to prevent another holocaust, and then they justify everything they're doing to the WB and Gaza in the name of security for their people. I never could figure out how, if victimhood is such a big part of their identity (which it is) they can just turn around and oppress somebody else within living memory of the holocaust. Doesn't make the holocaust less bad but it sure makes the occupation seem worse.

[Give me Beer]

I never said that all Israeli's think like that, I just said that that are some of the ideas present in Zionism. Which is why they keep building settlements in Palestinian territory, to annex it and create what has been coined "Gerater-Israel".

It makes perfect sense to compare some of the aspects of Zionism to those fo the NSDAP, you just risk Godwining the discussion. I by no means meant to imply that Zionists and by extention all of Israel = Nazis.

National characteristiscs are learned and thus artificial and thus inadequate to serve as "nation building concepts". I wrote an entire article about this in Dutch but I don't think posting it here would help any.

I could point out the example of Flemish nationalism, which wants the destruction of the Belgian state to create a new state "Flanders" based on an absurd notion that we are being oppressed by the French speaking part of the country and the notion that all "Flemish" people are in fact one nationality. Of course the constant repeating of this claim are in fact creating a Flemish sense of identity, but it is a newly created one and certainly not something inevitable. Nationalism will always degenerate into a dualistic us vs. them thinking.

[mph4ever]

What?



smokey said the jewish state was established in 1948. i was pointing out that the zionist state, in herzl's mind, had begun in 1897. but this zionist congress had already established a nationalism, and indentity, fundamental constitution, which only got a geographic location in 1948, when the british mandate was given over after pressure was applied based on the holocaust

[Jude]

I never said that all Israeli's think like that, I just said that that are some of the ideas present in Zionism. Which is why they keep building settlements in Palestinian territory, to annex it and create what has been coined "Gerater-Israel".
I know...I just got back from there


It makes perfect sense to compare some of the aspects of Zionism to those fo the NSDAP, you just risk Godwining the discussion. I by no means meant to imply that Zionists and by extention all of Israel = Nazis.
Well there certainly are some similarities between Zionists and Nazis, not least that they are bad and harmful to the good of the human race, but not THAT many similarities.


I could point out the example of Flemish nationalism, which wants the destruction of the Belgian state to create a new state "Flanders" based on an absurd notion that we are being oppressed by the French speaking part of the country and the notion that all "Flemish" people are in fact one nationality. Of course the constant repeating of this claim are in fact creating a Flemish sense of identity, but it is a newly created one and certainly not something inevitable. Nationalism will always degenerate into a dualistic us vs. them thinking.
That's an interesting situation. never heard about it before.

smokey said the jewish state was established in 1948. i was pointing out that the zionist state, in herzl's mind, had begun in 1897. but this zionist congress had already established a nationalism, and indentity, fundamental constitution, which only got a geographic location in 1948, when the british mandate was given over after pressure was applied based on the holocaust
Well yeah but for all practical purposes they didn't have a state...I see what you mean though.

[mph4ever]

Well yeah but for all practical purposes they didn't have a state...I see what you mean though.

they had their eyes on one, first settlers started arriving not so long after, jaffa was a busy little place back then

anyway, regardless of anything, i defy any zionist to justify what has happened to that part of the world based on fairytales

[Smokey D]

No you've misunderstood what Herzl meant. He wasn't saying they had a state in the way the English or the French had a state. He was saying they had the idea of a state which would be realised into an actual state within 50 years.

[mph4ever]

no, i don't think i misunderstood it, i don't think the zionists at the time misunderstood it either, 30,000 had already moved in by the time of the congress, the zwo funded thousands more, i think he referred to the fact that the rest of the world would misundertand it and laugh. he was probably right, so like all good zionists, they went about achieving their goal with little concern for anyone else, just like the chosen people in search of the promised land should.

zionists at this point were very clear on their nationalist requirements and immediately went about achieving their goal.

[Smokey D]

Yeah but they knew they didn't have a state at the time.

It was a rhetorical device, not a declaration of independence.

[mph4ever]

yes, i agree, but they had all the identity of a state, they were already stealthily populating one

[Smokey D]

Oh yeah, well building a state was the purpose of Zionism. But either Herzl was ridiculously premature in asserting its formation or he was just being rhetorical.

[mph4ever]

we'll never know

[Jude]

anyway, regardless of anything, i defy any zionist to justify what has happened to that part of the world based on fairytales
They do though, very zealously

Well and also based on more solid things like the holocaust, but they bring God into it too if they happen to be religious.

[mph4ever]

i know. suppose, if it gets them through then who am i to argue

i don't get the holocaust thing though, there are millions of dead or misplaced people everywhere who have never looked for and who never will receive a country of their own. and certainly not at the expense of the current population

[Jude]

i know. suppose, if it gets them through then who am i to argue

i don't get the holocaust thing though, there are millions of dead or misplaced people everywhere who have never looked for and who never will receive a country of their own. and certainly not at the expense of the current population

Yeah but they're not GODS CHOSEN PEOPLE

[mph4ever]

hahahaha,

all the people who allowed them to create israel and impose it on palestine were not gods chosen people, thats what i don't get

i was reading somewhere recently that there were 10,000 polities in africa before it was sliced and diced into its current 40-50 nation form by the colonialists trying to best benefit from its resources. do you think that any of these totally misplaced people will ever get their own country(s) back

[Jude]

i was reading somewhere recently that there were 10,000 polities in africa before it was sliced and diced into its current 40-50 nation form by the colonialists trying to best benefit from its resources. do you think that any of these totally misplaced people will ever get their own country(s) back

Nope

[mph4ever]

but what if they claim that their god promised them there lands many moons ago, do you not think that they would have a chance? one of the interesting parts of law, and i assume that it applies to international law, is the idea of precedence. surely with that on their side they would have a chance.

maybe we could start a campaign and see if we could give america back to the indigenous people, oz back to the aboriginals etc. do you reckon we would have much of a chance?

or if i write down now that god appeared to me on sugarloaf mountain and he said unto me that manhattan is my family's promised land and that we handed it down for centuries and then in 3000 years time we pop up and say "god said we own manhattan, we are his people and according to him it is our promised land", do you think that would wash with the locals?

[Iskandar]

The difference is that the West controlled the Middle East, and the West was friendly to the plight of the Jews. That and nobody likes Arabs.

[Volumnius Flush]

People who hate JEws hate them for three reasons.

a) Religion ~ The Jewish religion, Judaism
b) Race ~ The Jewish race/color
c) Nationality ~ Where they are from

Everyone who hates Jews hates them for one of these three basic reasons. Now there are other reasons to hate Jews. Maybe they picked on you in school. Maybe they are of low intelligence. Maybe you don't like their accent. But the hardcore supremacists against Jews dislike them for three basic reasons.

[mph4ever]

People who hate JEws hate them for three reasons.

a) Religion ~ The Jewish religion, Judaism
b) Race ~ The Jewish race/color
c) Nationality ~ Where they are from

Everyone who hates Jews hates them for one of these three basic reasons. Now there are other reasons to hate Jews. Maybe they picked on you in school. Maybe they are of low intelligence. Maybe you don't like their accent. But the hardcore supremacists against Jews dislike them for three basic reasons.

i have no idea why you would post that, the thread is not about hating jews, for me anyway, i am just trying to understand more and there seems to be some well informed people here with conflicting views that makes it more interesting

[Jude]

People who hate JEws hate them for three reasons.

a) Religion ~ The Jewish religion, Judaism
b) Race ~ The Jewish race/color
c) Nationality ~ Where they are from

Everyone who hates Jews hates them for one of these three basic reasons. Now there are other reasons to hate Jews. Maybe they picked on you in school. Maybe they are of low intelligence. Maybe you don't like their accent. But the hardcore supremacists against Jews dislike them for three basic reasons.

Or d) because you're a Palestinian who grew up having your life turned into a shithole by Jewish occupiers

[RunAmokRampant]

I watched a compilation of old Nazi anti-Jew propogandi in the media the other day that included 'documentaries', cartoons, ads etc. From today's perspective it looks silly, stupid and laughable but people actually bought into that bs.

[mph4ever]

greatest propaganda machine ever, they reckon.

apart from fox, that is

[Jude]

I watched a compilation of old Nazi anti-Jew propogandi in the media the other day that included 'documentaries', cartoons, ads etc. From today's perspective it looks silly, stupid and laughable but people actually bought into that bs.

People buy into a lot of stuff today that's just as retarded

[totah]

Or d) because you're a Palestinian who grew up having your life turned into a shithole by Jewish occupiers

Actually most of the Palestinians I hate differentiate between Jew and Zionist:

Scene is set in rooftop shisha bar somewhere in downtown Ramallah.

ARAB GUY Inta yahud?
ME Ana yahud bas maa-sayyuni.
ARAB GUY Okay. passes shisha and pours coffee

1 Are you Jewish?
2 I'm Jewish but anti-Zionist.
3 Okay.

[Jude]

Actually most of the Palestinians I hate differentiate between Jew and Zionist:

Scene is set in rooftop shisha bar somewhere in downtown Ramallah.

ARAB GUY Inta yahud?
ME Ana yahud bas maa-sayyuni.
ARAB GUY Okay. passes shisha and pours coffee

1 Are you Jewish?
2 I'm Jewish but anti-Zionist.
3 Okay.
Yeah I mean every Palestinian I met made that differentiation (not to mention the differentiation between Americans and the Bush administration, thank God) but I could still totally understand why they'd hate Jews in general
Especially since nearly every Israeli I met, even moderates, support the wall as a necessary evil.

Are you Israeli? If so how'd you get into Ramallah?
Btw if you're in the Jerusalem area, can get into the WB and sympathetic to the Palestinians why not go to one of these...I just got an email from this community center in Beit Sahour

PRESS RELEASE
May 13, 2008

21,915 BLACK BALLOONS OVER JERUSALEM

“Justice is the Key to Tomorrow”



[RAMALLAH] On May 15, 2008, to commemorate the Nakba, Palestinians will attempt to turn the skies over Jerusalem black with 21,915 balloons -- a balloon to mark each day of our dispossession.

As celebrities and world leaders gather in Jerusalem from May 13 – 15 to celebrate Israel’s 60th birthday, our side of the story is either misconstrued or left entirely untold. The stories of murder, destruction and exile that paved the way to Israel’s independence are not recalled and the millions of refugees, who have been waiting for decades to return home, are not remembered.

Therefore, our message -- the message of the Palestinian youth -- to Israelis and to the international community is that there is no reason to celebrate. Sixty years after the establishment of the State of Israel, the majority of the original inhabitants of this land, millions of Palestinians, remain dispossessed, with no official acknowledgement of their pain and suffering and no real plan to guarantee their human right to return home. Sixty years after the creation of Israel, the state continues to deny Palestinians’ basic rights and works to crush our dreams and aspirations. It’s wrong to celebrate until there is justice for Palestinians.

On May 15 we will launch 21,915 black balloons from refugee camps around Jerusalem in order to communicate our pain to the world and to convey our hopes and dreams for a better tomorrow. Please hear us; join us.

DATE: Thursday, May 15, 2008

TIME: Launch at 2:00 p.m.

PLACES:

- In Ramallah, the Qalandia Refugee Camp football field;

- In Bethlehem, the Aida Youth Center, Aida Refugee Camp;

- In Jerusalem, TBA

[Volumnius Flush]

Or d) because you're a Palestinian who grew up having your life turned into a shithole by Jewish occupiers

Last I checked the Palestinians were free to leave... It's like a bobo shot, you don't have to bend over, stick it out, and take it, you can tell the doctor "Hell no" like I did.

[Jude]

Last I checked the Palestinians were free to leave... It's like a bobo shot, you don't have to bend over, stick it out, and take it, you can tell the doctor "Hell no" like I did.

lol


jew


got to the ovens

[Volumnius Flush]

lol


jew


got to the ovens

Are you insinuating the Holocaust is something we should transpose with laughter?

[mph4ever]

Last I checked the Palestinians were free to leave... It's like a bobo shot, you don't have to bend over, stick it out, and take it, you can tell the doctor "Hell no" like I did.


are you suggesting that the powerless palestinians should just up and leave everything, their homes, their culture, their heritage, their country, their lives, to the zionists?

[Volumnius Flush]

are you suggesting that the powerless palestinians should just up and leave everything, their homes, their culture, their heritage, their country, their lives, to the zionists?

Take a lesson from the Israelis. Go kick someone else off their land.

[mph4ever]

Take a lesson from the Israelis. Go kick someone else off their land.

i thought that was an american lesson

[RunAmokRampant]

People buy into a lot of stuff today that's just as retarded

That's quite true.

[Volumnius Flush]

i thought that was an american lesson

It's the lesson we learn in colonial imperialism 101.

[mph4ever]

It's the lesson we learn in colonial imperialism 101.

doesn't make it all right

[Jude]

are you suggesting that the powerless palestinians should just up and leave everything, their homes, their culture, their heritage, their country, their lives, to the zionists?

Never take anything he says remotely seriously cause if you do then you end up looking as dumb as him

Are you insinuating the Holocaust is something we should transpose with laughter?
"Transpose" is definitely the word you were looking for there wasn't it

[totah]

Are you Israeli? If so how'd you get into Ramallah?
Btw if you're in the Jerusalem area, can get into the WB and sympathetic to the Palestinians why not go to one of these...I just got an email from this community center in Beit Sahour

I saw that email. I can't be bothered with balloon actions and all that crap. It's cute but what inevitably happens is that Palestine and Israel get littered with tens of thousands of black balloon corpses with animals then try to eat up and choke to death. I'm no animal liberationist, but it's too much effort and waste to mark the nakbe that way. instead today there was a riot against the Calandia checkpoint (it's this huge complex near jerusalem for people going in and out that way, a really horrible place, I hate it), thats more my idea of commemorating nakba; nakba is an ongoing thing so we should ongo and kick some zionist military arse.

yeah i live in israel and i go into the west bank a lot and into ramallah too. you can go anywhere if you can make a palestinian cop believe you don't speak hebrew and you remember to always speak english. they couldn't tell the different between an israeli and a french accent if their lives depended on it. to anser your question, i got into ramallah with a car.

Last I checked the Palestinians were free to leave... It's like a bobo shot, you don't have to bend over, stick it out, and take it, you can tell the doctor "Hell no" like I did.

they're not really free to leave at all...

Are you insinuating the Holocaust is something we should transpose with laughter?

it should be supervened (stupid thesaurus) by laughter (but preceded by a well-told joke).

[mph4ever]

Never take anything he says remotely seriously cause if you do then you end up looking as dumb as him


obviously the air of sarcasm was lost

but i do think he has plenty to say that has serious written all over it

[Jude]

I saw that email. I can't be bothered with balloon actions and all that crap. It's cute but what inevitably happens is that Palestine and Israel get littered with tens of thousands of black balloon corpses with animals then try to eat up and choke to death. I'm no animal liberationist, but it's too much effort and waste to mark the nakbe that way. instead today there was a riot against the Calandia checkpoint (it's this huge complex near jerusalem for people going in and out that way, a really horrible place, I hate it), thats more my idea of commemorating nakba; nakba is an ongoing thing so we should ongo and kick some zionist military arse.

As much as I'd love to go riot against the IDF or settlers, violence only causes more violence as we've seen for the past 60 years. Peaceful gestures may be less satisfying but they're, if not more effective, at least less harmful and more indicative of a readiness for peace.

yeah i live in israel and i go into the west bank a lot and into ramallah too. you can go anywhere if you can make a palestinian cop believe you don't speak hebrew and you remember to always speak english. they couldn't tell the different between an israeli and a french accent if their lives depended on it. to anser your question, i got into ramallah with a car.
I assumed it was the Israelis who were stopping other Israelis from going in there...what with all the signs saying "no entry for Israeli citizens."


but i do think he has plenty to say that has serious written all over it
Even so, he's too dumb to be taken seriously (if he is serious)

[Volumnius Flush]

"Transpose" is definitely the word you were looking for there wasn't it

Well it sounded good at the time. I think I was trying to use another word. But hey there is internet forgiveness right, everyone makes mistakes. Look at ashman.


they're not really free to leave at all...



it should be supervened (stupid thesaurus) by laughter (but preceded by a well-told joke).

Well all I know is if I was drafted I'd be headed for Canada.

Even so, he's too dumb to be taken seriously (if he is serious)

Trust me, I am very serious. The internet is not something to take lightly. ;) This is very serious business.

[Jude]

everyone makes mistakes. Look at ashman.




Look at your parents.

[Volumnius Flush]

Look at your parents.

It's a two way street Jude. Look at your parents....

[Jude]

lol

[Volumnius Flush]

lol

See that's the problem with the internet. You can't use inflection. My post doesn't make sense without inflection. I was trying to say Look at your parents, like sheesh, what kind of comment is that? I wasn't talking about your parents, I was just repeating it back with inflection that indicates frustration, big difference in what you thought I meant.